1Password migrants thread

[MadeTheSwitch]

If I buy it the app works forever

I wish people would stop using the word “forever” as it is unrealistic. Operating systems change, software gets updated, things break and get left behind, and then users move on to new hardware and new operating systems that don’t support those old apps. That is the nature of software. It’s an evolving moving organic kind of thing. Not a one and done kind of thing.

Instead the description should be “long term”. Let's say someone is 20 years old now and lives to be 100. They aren't going to be using the same iPhone and operating system they have today, 80 years from now. Or the same Macbook. It’s just not going to happen.

 

[bradl]

An average user risks far more by storing data manually than with a specialised cloud service. You don’t read it in the news when another commoner loses or leaks their locally stored keychain.

And yet, should they fall under any type of investigation, they have no legal rights or recourse for the seizure of their data. Most would expect (at least in the US) that the 4th Amendment would protect them...

It doesn't.

Your Digital Trail: Does The Fourth Amendment Protect Us?

Could government agents really get access to all your private data in less than a minute? Experts say no but warn we are moving in that direction.

www.npr.org

This is what you risk when you store your data with a 3rd party, let alone the fact that once you upload your data to that service, they now are the owners of that data, not you.

Convenience has risk; the question is if you are willing to sacrifice your security for that convenience.

BL.

 

[MacBH928]

Yet a single breach puts you not only to be newsworthy, but could allow others to legally seize your data without your permission or authorization: especially without a warrant. A subpoena would be all that is needed. But that is the price you pay for giving up the security of your data for the convenience of Software as a Service.

Yet you forget that the rest of us have also supported their hard work by paying for the license to use their software. But yeah, we're the ones that are delusional.

BL.

what happened in that breach, did people passwords go out? why people still subscribe to them

An average user risks far more by storing data manually than with a specialised cloud service. You don’t read it in the news when another commoner loses or leaks their locally stored keychain.

This is true, but when 1 loses his data its just 1 and its his fault. When a corporate loses data, its millions of people, and its the corporate fault that you willingly paid for....a subscription

That's an issue, say tomorrow the developer falls ill, hits the lottery, decides to go into the woods to live as a hermit. You just lost your development "team" Being open source someone else could pick up the mantle, but I think we've seen our share of abandoned projects and being open source doesn't gaurentee that keepass will survive, while the source code is available to others, doesn't mean someone or some team will decide to further the work.

I applaud the developer for providing such a great product and his dedication over the years, but I also need to find a product that doesn't introduce more risks.

You are missing the point, the point was 1 guy was doing password manager for 18 years for free. Somehow Agilebits with a team of developers and millions of user base is not enough funded to keep the app working so much so they have to force a subscription. It doesn't add up.

What adds up is that selling licenses is not as lucrative as subscription, so they are forcing subscription.

Note I am not against Agilebits selling $3/m subscription or $100 licenses.
I am not against Agilebits selling $100 license for local vaults, and $3/m cloud storage as a service.

I am against forcing only subscription and only in the cloud.

I wish people would stop using the word “forever” as it is unrealistic. Operating systems change, software gets updated, things break and get left behind, and then users move on to new hardware and new operating systems that don’t support those old apps. That is the nature of software. It’s an evolving moving organic kind of thing. Not a one and done kind of thing.

Instead the description should be “long term”. Let's say someone is 20 years old now and lives to be 100. They aren't going to be using the same iPhone and operating system they have today, 80 years from now. Or the same Macbook. It’s just not going to happen.

Actually Apps do continue to work. Some people do have old machines with older OS installed and run older software. The author of game of thrones (story of fire and ice) said he still does his writing on WordStar 4.0 . I run software thats out of date.

You don't get the new features, but the features you paid for still work which is fair. Want the new features, pay again or pay for an upgrade. Although its not paid, I am still on Mojave. I skipped Big Sur and Catalina. Mojave still works and solid for me.

So, although realistically you won't use it forever but if you meet the requirements the answer is yes it will continue to work forever unlike subscription that will freeze once the payment does not get through

 

[maflynn]

You are missing the point, the point was 1 guy was doing password manager for 18 years for free. Somehow Agilebits with a team of developers and millions of user base is not enough funded to keep the app working so much so they have to force a subscription. It doesn't add up.

So what you're saying, is that 1 guy is doing it for free so why is 1Password charging money?

It adds up to me, Agilebits is a company with overhead, salaries, rent, expenses, and so they cannot give away their software. The team of developers have families to feed, bills to pay so they cannot give away their time and talent for free. I don't know the developer of keepass, so I cannot comment on how or why he does it for free. Kudos to him

so they are forcing subscription.

No one is forcing you.

Note I am not against Agilebits selling $3/m subscription or $100 licenses.
I am not against Agilebits selling $100 license for local vaults, and $3/m cloud storage as a service.

You seem to be

I am against forcing only subscription and only in the cloud.

Again, you are free to choose a competitor, no one is forcing you to do anything.

Life is too short to get so worked up over one application and/or one business choosing a payment mode that you hate. Don't take it personal, and find another password manager. Sounds like keepass is something that may fit your needs.

 

[mailbuoy]

In the near future, my subscription to 1Password will be up for renewal and I think I am going to stick with them. I have read and considered all 583 MacRumors posts on 1Password’s upcoming changes and I have explored other password managers. I even have a fully populated Enpass app on my computer (which I used before switching back to 1PW). It occurs to me that the reason there are 583 posts discussing 1Password changes is because it is a great app. There are no similarly robust forums on other password managers that I have seen.

I am currently using the newly released iOS and iPadOS versions of 1 Password and they are working great.

I am using the beta version of 1Password 8 on my iMac and it is working great.

Of the significant criticisms of the upcoming Mac version 8:
1. I am already using the iPassword server because I share a vault with my wife.
2. I am already paying the subscription model because I am on the family plan.
And, 3. The Electron desktop looks and runs great and without any problems. I am not a programmer and maybe Electron is technically inferior, but from a user perspective I have no issue with it. (And, although I don’t use a Windows version of 1Password, if I did I would probably like the fact that the interface was the very same.)

 

[maflynn]

In the near future, my subscription to 1Password will be up for renewal and I think I am going to stick with them

I'm personally, leaning towards but admittedly, I'm probably a bit more on the fence now then I was a few weeks ago. Like you, I'm looking towards the family plan. I'm currently only on a single license but I think my wife needs this as well. So before I spend any more money, I want to fully vet out my options.

Like you said, 1Password is a fantastic app, and so far I've not yet seen anything that rivals it in terms of features, polish and quality.

 

[MisterSavage]

Like you, I'm looking towards the family plan. I'm currently only on a single license but I think my wife needs this as well. So before I spend any more money, I want to fully vet out my options.

I know you've been lukewarm on Bitwarden but I did discover just yesterday that 2 users can set up an "organization" for sharing for free.

"Free Bitwarden Organizations allow for 2 users to securely share Organization-owned credentials."

Organizations Quick Start | Bitwarden Help Center

Bitwarden Organizations enable your family, team, or enterprise to securely share common information like office WiFi passwords, online credentials, or shared company credit cards.

bitwarden.com

 

[bradl]

what happened in that breach, did people passwords go out? why people still subscribe to them

You miss the point. If your data is acquired by the government by a simple subpoena without your authorization or knowledge, that is a problem.

I'll even go a step further. Since it could be acquired by a simple subpoena, that subpoena can easily be written up by a clerk of the court, and handed to a judge to be signed. The issue with that? Every lawyer is a clerk of the court. They can write up their own subpoena, get it signed, and have it delivered to that 3rd party and legally retrieve your data.

It has nothing to do with "did their passwords go out".. It has to do with the fact that your data can simply be retrieved by a lawyer or the government from that 3rd party as easily as it can: all without needing to have a warrant executed, and circumventing your 4A right here in the US.

That data can be the blobs containing your passwords. And if they are able to crack that blob without needing your assistance, they also will have circumvented your 5A right against self-incrimination by demanding you open your vaults containing your passwords.

That is the problem. People are so fixated on "well, my passwords are safe, because I can change them or double-blind them", that they miss the bigger picture of how easily the objects containing those passwords can be retrieved.

BL.

 

[Macdaddy789]

1Password migration has been a great discussion for everyone. We have voiced our opinions about our needs and wants as far as password managers is concerned. I actually created my account to join this discussion. I think there is one piece of the puzzle that's missing and that's a survey of what everyone plans to use as a password manager in the future.

 

[bradl]

1Password migration has been a great discussion for everyone. We have voiced our opinions about our needs and wants as far as password managers is concerned. I actually created my account to join this discussion. I think there is one piece of the puzzle that's missing and that's a survey of what everyone plans to use as a password manager in the future.

The problem that we have is that we do not know. There are a ton of requirements that each person may have that fuels their decision. That is what everyone is still weeding out as to which password manager suits those needs.

In the meantime, Those with 1Password 7 on a standalone license are completely set. Those who are not on a standalone license with 1Password 7 or newer, or those on 1Password 6 or older are the ones where the clock is ticking. The latter is more concerting; not only are they limited in options, but they also are going from Intel to Silicon, plus dependent on how long Rosetta 2 works.

BL.

 

[MacBH928]

So what you're saying, is that 1 guy is doing it for free so why is 1Password charging money?

It adds up to me, Agilebits is a company with overhead, salaries, rent, expenses, and so they cannot give away their software. The team of developers have families to feed, bills to pay so they cannot give away their time and talent for free. I don't know the developer of keepass, so I cannot comment on how or why he does it for free. Kudos to him



No one is forcing you.


You seem to be


Again, you are free to choose a competitor, no one is forcing you to do anything.

Life is too short to get so worked up over one application and/or one business choosing a payment mode that you hate. Don't take it personal, and find another password manager. Sounds like keepass is something that may fit your needs.

I didn't say free, I said $80-$100 a license then when the next major upgrade comes along like ip8 they can charge new license or upgrade fee. Thats what CarbonCopyCloner doing and seems like they still have a roof on their heads. CCC is only $40-60 btw.

Yes, they are not forcing me, I said they are forcing the model. Of course in the end its their product and they can do whatever they want. Many companies created their own hanging rope like myspace and Yahoo.

Life is too short to get so worked up over one application and/or one business choosing a payment mode that you hate. Don't take it personal, and find another password manager. Sounds like keepass is something that may fit your needs.

you are correct, I wish I had your cool.

In the near future, my subscription to 1Password will be up for renewal and I think I am going to stick with them. I have read and considered all 583 MacRumors posts on 1Password’s upcoming changes and I have explored other password managers. I even have a fully populated Enpass app on my computer (which I used before switching back to 1PW). It occurs to me that the reason there are 583 posts discussing 1Password changes is because it is a great app. There are no similarly robust forums on other password managers that I have seen.

I am currently using the newly released iOS and iPadOS versions of 1 Password and they are working great.

I am using the beta version of 1Password 8 on my iMac and it is working great.

Of the significant criticisms of the upcoming Mac version 8:
1. I am already using the iPassword server because I share a vault with my wife.
2. I am already paying the subscription model because I am on the family plan.
And, 3. The Electron desktop looks and runs great and without any problems. I am not a programmer and maybe Electron is technically inferior, but from a user perspective I have no issue with it. (And, although I don’t use a Windows version of 1Password, if I did I would probably like the fact that the interface was the very same.)

I'm personally, leaning towards but admittedly, I'm probably a bit more on the fence now then I was a few weeks ago. Like you, I'm looking towards the family plan. I'm currently only on a single license but I think my wife needs this as well. So before I spend any more money, I want to fully vet out my options.

Like you said, 1Password is a fantastic app, and so far I've not yet seen anything that rivals it in terms of features, polish and quality.

Both of you are correct that 1Password is great and fantastic app that gets out of your way. Its one of the greatest pieces of software that actually made my life better. The reason I started this thread to find an alternative. Choosing 1PW is a viable choice though for anyone who does not find something better that meets his needs.

@mailbuoy

Respect for reading 550+ posts . May I ask about your experience on EnPass because that is where I am heading.

 

[MacBH928]

You miss the point. If your data is acquired by the government by a simple subpoena without your authorization or knowledge, that is a problem.

I'll even go a step further. Since it could be acquired by a simple subpoena, that subpoena can easily be written up by a clerk of the court, and handed to a judge to be signed. The issue with that? Every lawyer is a clerk of the court. They can write up their own subpoena, get it signed, and have it delivered to that 3rd party and legally retrieve your data.

It has nothing to do with "did their passwords go out".. It has to do with the fact that your data can simply be retrieved by a lawyer or the government from that 3rd party as easily as it can: all without needing to have a warrant executed, and circumventing your 4A right here in the US.

That data can be the blobs containing your passwords. And if they are able to crack that blob without needing your assistance, they also will have circumvented your 5A right against self-incrimination by demanding you open your vaults containing your passwords.

That is the problem. People are so fixated on "well, my passwords are safe, because I can change them or double-blind them", that they miss the bigger picture of how easily the objects containing those passwords can be retrieved.

BL.

If your data is encrypted the gov. can't do anything with it. Its hard to crack. If your password manager has the key to break the encryption, like Apple has for iCloud, yes you are done. This is a great reason to trust Bitwarden since its OpenSource so you know who holds the keys unlike closed source like LastPass and 1PW.

1Password migration has been a great discussion for everyone. We have voiced our opinions about our needs and wants as far as password managers is concerned. I actually created my account to join this discussion. I think there is one piece of the puzzle that's missing and that's a survey of what everyone plans to use as a password manager in the future.

I created a simple survey if anyone interested to put in his vote: http://www.polljunkie.com/poll/qiyxtj/password-manager-migration

to view results: http://www.polljunkie.com/poll/mysgxa/password-manager-migration/view

 

[Alwis]

If your data is encrypted the gov. can't do anything with it. Its hard to crack. If your password manager has the key to break the encryption, like Apple has for iCloud, yes you are done.

And who prevents the 1PW application to send my passphrase and any other information they need to decrypt the data to their server the next time I enter it? This could happen by accident, because some developer did not disable some debug option in the final release, which has happened before, or intentionally.

Sure, if they do it intentionally they could also send the data with local vaults, but people would probably find out that very soon.

 

[MisterSavage]

And who prevents the 1PW application to send my passphrase and any other information they need to decrypt the data to their server the next time I enter it? This could happen by accident, because some developer did not disable some debug option in the final release, which has happened before, or intentionally.

With a proper password manager your password isn't stored and isn't sent via the Internet. It would make zero sense for that type of password manager to log the password in plain text. Also, if the code is open source the community would rip them a new one if they did that.

 

[Alwis]

With a proper password manager your password isn't stored and isn't sent via the Internet. It would make zero sense for that type of password manager to log the password in plain text.

But people make mistakes, I am a software developer and I make mistakes all the time When the data is stored locally I have a second line of defense. That will at least buy me some time.

It happened to me in the past, some weather sensor I had send the password and the SSID of my WLAN in plain text to the server of the manufacturer, allegedly because some debug code was not deactivated.

Also, if the code is open source the community would rip them a new one if they did that.

If you look at security related bugs in open source software (e.g. openssl) that were not fixed for a lot of time this is more of a theroretical possibility. I have performed reviews of open source software before and that is certainly not a task done in short time, nobody would do this for every release.

Beside that, 1PW is not open source, so I can not verify the claim, that my passwords are safer on their server than on my local machine.

 

[MisterSavage]

But people make mistakes, I am a software developer and I make mistakes all the time

I am also and so do I. Again, it would make zero sense to log the password in plain text when the whole concept of a proper password manager is to not store the password.

When the data is stored locally I have a second line of defense. That will at least buy me some time.

The password manager I chose, Bitwarden, allows you to self-host your data if you want.

If you look at security related bugs in open source software (e.g. openssl) that were not fixed for a lot of time this is more of a theroretical possibility. I have performed reviews of open source software before and that is certainly not a task done in short time, nobody would do this for every release.

You're honestly suggesting that no one would look at the diffs for a new release and no one would notice the sending of a password in plain text?

Beside that, 1PW is not open source, so I can not verify the claim, that my passwords are safer on their server than on my local machine.

I never said that they were. I said "if" the code is open source and the password manager I selected is.

 

[Alwis]

You're honestly suggesting that no one would look at the diffs for a new release and no one would notice the sending of a password in plain text?

Probably someone would look at the source code. If sending the password is noticed is an other question. It could be very obvious or it could be a sie effect, which may not be noticed.

I never said that they were. I said "if" the code is open source and the password manager I selected is.

I talked about 1PW in the first place and you quoted me. Would have no problem with some sort of self hosting option, beside that it is potentially more work to set up and maintain.

 

[mailbuoy]

Respect for reading 550+ posts . May I ask about your experience on EnPass because that is where I am heading.

Ha! I have been reading these posts since August,not all 550 at once!

I am not your best source for discussing pros and cons of Enpass. I haven't used it for ~ 2 years, except recently to make sure I could import from 1Password. I think I switched to 1PW because I found 1PW to have a little better polish and (IIRC) the auto fill on safari worked better with 1PW.

I just now played around with Enpass for a few minutes. I think I could certainly use it if I abandoned 1PW. The WiFi sync is nice. However, it would require "change" for my shared vault on iOS and iPadOS...

 

[doobydoooby]

I have clearly missed something here, can anyone direct me to the explanation of what has occurred or what is going to occur? For someone using 1password 7 on Macs and iOS devices from a single standalone vault that is held locally and synced via the wifi server, what’s changing? so far the only thing I notice failing is that they have offered an extension which requires a cloud server for some odd reason, but you don’t need to install it

 

[macintoshmac]

I have clearly missed something here, can anyone direct me to the explanation of what has occurred or what is going to occur? For someone using 1password 7 on Macs and iOS devices from a single standalone vault that is held locally and synced via the wifi server, what’s changing? so far the only thing I notice failing is that they have offered an extension which requires a cloud server for some odd reason, but you don’t need to install it

In short:
1. They are going non-native on macOS
- this means demonstrably higher system resources usage than v7
- this means possibly jarring UI experience since the design language might feel alien
2. There are features missing in v8
3. They are not allowing license purchases anymore (only subscriptions allowed)
4. No standalone vaults as well.

 

[bradl]

I have clearly missed something here, can anyone direct me to the explanation of what has occurred or what is going to occur? For someone using 1password 7 on Macs and iOS devices from a single standalone vault that is held locally and synced via the wifi server, what’s changing? so far the only thing I notice failing is that they have offered an extension which requires a cloud server for some odd reason, but you don’t need to install it

In short:
1. They are going non-native on macOS
- this means demonstrably higher system resources usage than v7
- this means possibly jarring UI experience since the design language might feel alien
2. There are features missing in v8
3. They are not allowing license purchases anymore (only subscriptions allowed)
4. No standalone vaults as well.

Exactly. All of this. And not only that, if you jump to 1Password 8, your vaults have to be stored on 1Password's servers, so your standalone vault will be gone.

@doobydoooby is in the sweet spot right now, where he will have absolutely no change, except if they are on Intel and jump to Apple Silicon. In fact, A download of the Silicon version should happen ASAP, because we don't know when they'll release 1Password 8 and drop support for 1Password 7. All he would need to do when he gets that Silicon Mac is install, apply the license key, and he's in business to import his vault.

Everyone else is SOL, because they turned off the servers used to purchase standalone licenses.

BL.

 

[Huntn]

I have clearly missed something here, can anyone direct me to the explanation of what has occurred or what is going to occur? For someone using 1password 7 on Macs and iOS devices from a single standalone vault that is held locally and synced via the wifi server, what’s changing? so far the only thing I notice failing is that they have offered an extension which requires a cloud server for some odd reason, but you don’t need to install it

For a while there I thought that as long as I had 1Password v7 that independent vault functionality would continue no matter what crappy decisions Agilbits make into the future with v8. Well it seems that I am wrong. I also find it heinous, that a company would break a current version number of their product (v7) as a method to try to force their customers into becoming their bitches (sign up for a subscription). 🤬

On my Mac (1PWv7.9) 1One Password is still functional, but there is no longer a Sync Button and the last item I entered an item, it failed to be picked up by iOS devices. It looks like this was the message about private vaults no longer being supported is where I saw it, although it still shows DropBox as my primary vault. Unless it's automated (I think not), it's tough to synch without a synch button.

On my iPhone (1PWv7.9): There is still a sync button there and it appears that if I enter an item there on an iOS device, that my iPad (1PWv7.9) picked it up. So synch on iOS is currently working. I would be cautious about uploading any more updates beyond 7.9 for your iOS devices, like v7.91FU.

Is there a way to revert to 1PW v7.8 or earlier for the MacOS to restore vault function? Ultimately this just gives me more incentive to find a better password manager, however...

A couple of weeks ago, I kind of got on this and tried out some other brands of password managers. I've tried:

• Bitwarden (tried in 2020) they don't support private vaults, correct?
• Datavault- not happy with the way it interacted with websites.
• Enpass- I had this in 2019, the first time I broke with 1PW, and after a MacOS update, it had issues synching with my vault so I ended up going back to 1PW when I discovered they were still offering their product without a subscription (at the time), you just had to look for it hidden away in a corner. Enpass note, I read that they screwed over lifetime license purchasers by rebranding their product? Unverified. Now you can buy a lifetime license for $80. I'm hesitant.
• KeepasswordXC- downloaded this but never completed setup. I'll look at this again.
• MSecure- no Mac extension in v5, and v6 going to subscription model.
• LogMeOnce- primary interaction is through browser which I did not care for. It does have a free version.

I've not followed along with this thread in the last week or two, has anyone found anything they love with

• no subscription
• independent vault
• macOS and iOS extensions?

 

[toasted ICT]

@Huntn .... Suggest scan the info in the thread. A lot of good detail discussed here.
Elsewise, my suggestion: Strongbox if you only use mac/iphone/ipad. Safeincloud if you need pc support too. See my post here:

1Password migrants thread

Bit of an update... I am using Strongbox for nearly 2 months now as my primary (only) password manager....really worth trying if your on macOS / iOS After more than a decade with 1password I got sick of the snarky attitude and I could see where they were heading - so I moved....the last 2...

forums.macrumors.com

 

[Huntn]

@Huntn .... Suggest scan the info in the thread. A lot of good detail discussed here.
Elsewise, my suggestion: Strongbox if you only use mac/iphone/ipad. Safeincloud if you need pc support too. See my post here:

1Password migrants thread

Bit of an update... I am using Strongbox for nearly 2 months now as my primary (only) password manager....really worth trying if your on macOS / iOS After more than a decade with 1password I got sick of the snarky attitude and I could see where they were heading - so I moved....the last 2...

forums.macrumors.com

My like is already on your post, but a review was warranted. Yes I will check this out.
You have this on both Mac and iOS, compatible with a Dropbox located vault, and has browser extensions?

 

[Alwis]

On my Mac (1PWv7.9) 1One Password is still functional, but there is no longer a Sync Button and the last item I entered an item, it failed to be picked up by iOS devices. It looks like this was the message about private vaults no longer being supported is where I saw it, although it still shows DropBox as my primary vault. Unless it's automated (I think not), it's tough to synch without a synch button.

I am not sure, if we are talking about the same thing. I justed tested it on my Mac and my iPad, with all 1PW Updates installed. Wlan sync is still working and can be initiated manually.