2018 i9 MacBook Pro throttling discussion [merged]

[RobbieTT]

MSI suggest TDP is closer to 150W at full tilt on the i9 and have beefed up the cooling on their laptops using the exact same chip as the 2018 MBP as a result.

https://www.msi.com/blog/why-8th-gen-core-i9-i7-and-i5-are-real-deal-and-faster-than-core-i7-7700hq

If you check the spec sheets for the i9 and the i7 they have the same TDP, despite the i7 being clocked slower, which makes no sense.

Intel's TDP figures are also based on some totally arbitrary load scenario.

For clarity I was only quoting Intel with the CPU at base clock speed at full load. If Intel claim 28W in this condition then pulling nearly double this value whilst still at base clock speed then there is a problem with the new i5 somewhere. This is either real (ie Intel problem) or a problem with the test. Given the apparent drop in performance it does not look like a test artefact.

The MSI article you linked to is a good one and, sticking with base clock speeds rather than turbo, they show the big i9 has a base TDP of 45W (ie a very hefty increase from the older i7). In this context the claimed 28W for the new i5 looks credible and yet in the i5 13" MBP test this little sucker was pulling over 50W (ie more than the TDP spec for the i9) whilst bouncing at or below the base frequency!

Something cannot be right with Intel if the base 8th gen i5 is pulling over 50W when operating at or below base cpu frequency. That amount of power does not just impact the thermals but will stress the amount of power margin the MBP has for all the other components too.

 

[maflynn]

Just wondering why people are ignoring iPhonedo's video though? Seems like rendering times are faster on FCP X across the board.

Perhaps because its annoying as anything. I couldn't get beyond the intro.

 

[defn]

Perhaps because its annoying as anything. I couldn't get beyond the intro.

I get what you mean, my other half gets somewhat annoyed whenever I watch his videos too .

But back to calling a spade a spade, seems like it's likely to be faster for those of us on FCP X. If you're stuck on Premiere Pro though...

 

[Elektrofone]

Does anyone have the i7 model that we could compare benchmarks for?

I get what you mean, my other half gets somewhat annoyed whenever I watch his videos too .

But back to calling a spade a spade, seems like it's likely to be faster for those of us on FCP X. If you're stuck on Premiere Pro though...

Did I miss something? He didn’t compare the i7 and i9 of the 2018 models. That’s the numbers I’d like to see.

 

[maflynn]

I just purchased an i9 model with 32GB of RAM and a 1TB SSD. Wondering if I should return it for the i7 instead.

I would put it through its paces and see how you fell about it. The reviews only show how the reviewer used it, but everyone is different. You may not have the issues because of how you use the laptop. You have two weeks, so put that bad boy through its paces.

 

[Howard2k]

hm. things are not looking good indeed.

these substantial heat/throttling issues seem to be present at the 13'' model too:

source: https://www.notebookcheck.com/Test-Apple-MacBook-Pro-13-2018-Touch-Bar-i5-Laptop.316002.0.html
(the link is in german)

they tested the base(!) 2018 quadcore-model.

Ouch - looks like a pretty significant swing and a miss for the 2018 MacBook Pro! The Quad Core 13" was one I was potentially interested in but I had some reservations about the thermals. This just saved me a bunch of money!

 

[Painter2002]

Not a great hypothesis IMO. Not like these are the first macs with > 4 cores. Don't forget about the Mac Pro and iMac Pro. Rendering applications have been maximizing the core usage on those machines well before these macs existed, and generally rendering responds very well to additional cores.

That is a great point, honestly I completely forgot that the iMac Pro and Mac Pro had the additional cores. I apologize for the bad hypothesis. In that case that does make my point void.
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You are correct that you can choose how many cores you can use with some software. You can do the same with Virtual machines. However, with FCPX and other professional software (most software really), there is no option for the user to do that. Never was and never will. Simply because back in OS X 10.6 (Snow Leopard) Apple implemented something called Grand Central Dispatch. Basically it's a technology Apple built into OS X to optimize application support systems with multi core processors. This allows the software to use the maximum cores available. Including GPU with OpenCL if it is supported by the application.

To say Apple didn't "optimize" FCPX (or any software) for new hexacore processors is kind of a lame excuse. There was no issue when Apple went from dual core processors to quad core. Or what about the Mac Pro and iMac Pro with multiple cores? Did Apple have to rewrite all their software and OSX for those new processors? It's the whole point why they made Grand Central.

We have to call this for what it really is. Thermal Throttling. They tried to squeeze in too much power into a chassis that doesn't have enough room for proper cooling. They got lazy and they should be called out for it. No way you should pay a premium for a processor you can only use 80-90% of. Most Windows manufacturers redesigned their laptops for hexacore. Those that didn't get thermal throttling. The same thing is happening to Apple.

I do agree, and as one of the other users pointed out, the iMac pro and Mac Pro both already have 6+ core options, so... yeah bad hypothesis ok my end. I had totally forgotten that those machines had the six core option.

 

[Elektrofone]

I would put it through its paces and see how you fell about it. The reviews only show how the reviewer used it, but everyone is different. You may not have the issues because of how you use the laptop. You have two weeks, so put that bad boy through its paces.

I would love to compare it to an i7 model, which I don’t have on hand. What I really want to know is if it’s true that the i9 is performing worse than the i7. That would make me feel pretty ripped off.

 

[aevan]

Okay, they didn't downgrade it -- they just offer a part for US$300 which performs slower than the stock part under sustained load.

Stock part under sustained load.... where? In vacuum? Or in an ultraportable?

false because of the pro part

Riiiight.

Doesn't it bother you that they perform worse than nearly all other laptops with the same hardware or slower?

Show me a laptop of MBP weight that has an i9 that performs better.

At what point does the MBP 15 become literally too thick and heavy?

At the point where Apple finds a way to make them thinner and lighter.

 

[Smeaton1724]

The current Macbook Pro line is too thin for suitable cooling for the 7th and 8th Gen intel chips without throttling at the high end. Throw these in the case of a 2015 and there would be minimal hardware problems or returns, so few keyboard issues and no swathes on dongles.

We are at a point where Intel are providing the chips with performance, Apple need to provide the thermal cooling solution that allows the chips to perform, not just throttle to massively reduced levels of performance to fit into a tiny thin case - form over function doesn't work at the fundamental reasoning for the device to exist.

 

[mr.anthonyramos]

Perhaps because its annoying as anything. I couldn't get beyond the intro.

I personally found the intro pretty entertaining. Haha. So to each his own.

Feel good about the video though!

To those who missed it, here it is again:

 

[Elektrofone]

Other than the D2D video has anyone compared an i9 and i7 through benchmarks to see how they compare? Throttling is one thing. If the i9 is throttling to the point that the i7 outperforms the i9 then that is worth knowing.

Also, I ran a quick benchmark last night on my i9 2018 in After Effects rendering out a benchmark test file and monitored the CPU through Intel Power Gadget and did notice spiky clock speeds, but I am wondering if this had to do with the way that AE renders. It renders frame by frame, so you're going to see a ramp up then back down for each individual frame, not a consistent flat line.

I'd really like to compare my speeds to someone who has an i7.

 

[oldmacs]

Show me a laptop of MBP weight that has an i9 that performs better.

The MacBook Pro is meant to be their flagship MacBook performance wise. A lot of people would rank speed above thinness.

Wouldn't have been that hard to continue the original Retina Pro design (given it is already pretty thin) as the Pro laptop and sat the new ones below as a Prosumer device.

 

[Rogifan]

So people are cancelling orders over one YT video even though we have yet to see any reviews from tech publications? I have yet to see an actual review of these machines. All I’ve seen are what could be classified as previews not real reviews.

 

[oldmacs]

So people are cancelling orders over one YT video even though we have yet to see any reviews from tech publications? I have yet to see an actual review of these machines. All I’ve seen are what could be classified as previews not real reviews.

Not a bad idea to cancel and wait if you were concerned. I mean Apple shipped a compromised keyboard design from late 2016 through to mid 2018 (and still continues to ship it in the non touchbar model) so its not beyond reality that they've let this one slip through as well.

 

[Naimfan]

Other than the D2D video has anyone compared an i9 and i7 through benchmarks to see how they compare? Throttling is one thing. If the i9 is throttling to the point that the i7 outperforms the i9 then that is worth knowing.

Also, I ran a quick benchmark last night on my i9 2018 in After Effects rendering out a benchmark test file and monitored the CPU through Intel Power Gadget and did notice spiky clock speeds, but I am wondering if this had to do with the way that AE renders. It renders frame by frame, so you're going to see a ramp up then back down for each individual frame, not a consistent flat line.

I'd really like to compare my speeds to someone who has an i7.

I have an i7 2.6 hex core. What numbers would you like?

 

[Elektrofone]

I have an i7 2.6 hex core. What numbers would you like?

Do you have Adobe CC software and FCP X?

I'd like to compare render times. Those are the numbers I actually care about.

 

[FFR]

So people are cancelling orders over one YT video even though we have yet to see any reviews from tech publications? I have yet to see an actual review of these machines. All I’ve seen are what could be classified as previews not real reviews.

Probably the same posters that were posting an all in one desktop as an alternative to the MacBook Pro.

I’m still picking up a Fully loaded 15inch i9 32gb 4tb. Just have to decide between silver or gunmetal grey

 

[jerryk]

You know what.

How humid does a fridge get?

The humidity is a more a function of the environment, where you live, ac running, etc. But if there is much humidity moisture can condense and freeze and then thaw in the machine. This can trip the MacBook Pros moisture detectors and voiding the warranty. So do not try this.
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Straight up that's terrible results - My W10 notebook with 8750H
View attachment 771269
View attachment 771270 3 hours at full load CPU temp in the region of 70C

Q-6

Nice!
[doublepost=1531922913][/doublepost]

I would put it through its paces and see how you fell about it. The reviews only show how the reviewer used it, but everyone is different. You may not have the issues because of how you use the laptop. You have two weeks, so put that bad boy through its paces.

If I go with the 15" I am leaning toward the i7. But given that I have a 2015 15" with i7 and dgpu I am not sure the change is worth the expense and potentially dealing with the keyboard

 

[ESA]

I tested my 2016 maxed out ,macbook pro, exporting a 4k file.. 2,9 Ghz

Room temperature is around 29 degrees.

Does not Throttle much

 

[Queen6]

No, because Apple hasn't downgraded anything. Downgraded to what exactly? Your personal hypothetical speed? The speed of the CPU in a freezer? Every mobile device faces throttling, and Apple is selling an ultraportable pro laptop.

I do care about performance, and if anyone thinks these i9 CPUs won't preform well, they are running benchmarks rather than, you know, doing stuff. These are super-fast CPUs.

Also, if anyone is to blame, it's Intel. Apple can't put CPUs that perform better because there are not CPUs that perform better. "But Apple could make a thicker notebooks" - No. No they can't. Because pros need mobility. Only people on Macrumors Forums have issues with notebooks becoming lighter and more portable.

3 hours no throttling...

The 2018 MBP is clearly under performing, as to exactly why we'll see soon enough.

Q-6

 

[Naimfan]

Do you have Adobe CC software and FCP X?

I'd like to compare render times. Those are the numbers I actually care about.

Unfortunately, no. Most of my work is with large datasets using an application analogous to boinc, so the more cores the better.

I've posted the benchmarks I've gotten from my machine elsewhere, the most notable was the swing in Cinebench CPU scores, which could range from a high of 965 to a low of 627 (which was when it was very hot and also only a few hours old). It has now seemed to stabilize between about 960 on the high end and 880 on the low end. Geekbench scores are worthless for any sort of sustained workload. IMO, obviously.

 

[dan9700]

Cancelled my macbook pro order cant spend £3000 on a machine that doesnt work faster than last years, i dont care about 1 or 2 min faster if the i9 doesnt work well apple have messed up again!!!! Even the gpu is a disgrace same rebrand from 2 years ago

 

[RobbieTT]

My German was not up to digesting some of the analysis so the updated English translation on notebookcheck was helpful. They postulate that Apple have unlocked the TDP limits of the Intel CPU and perhaps this has pushed it a little far and once hot it stays hot for a while with a continuous effort test. Perhaps real-world will give the CPU more time to recover.

The mystery of the exceptionally high power pulled at base frequency needs resolving. I wonder if the EFI voltages have been set correctly by Apple?

 

[Naimfan]

If I go with the 15" I am leaning toward the i7. But given that I have a 2015 15" with i7 and dgpu I am not sure the change is worth the expense and potentially dealing with the keyboard

From a pure performance standpoint I have to say it IS worth it if you'll benefit from the increased number of cores. And the keyboard on the 2018 has yet to fail from heat, which I take as a good sign. The "feel" of it is also improved, though still significantly inferior to the 2015 and earlier.

Of course, you still have to put up with the absurdly oversized trackpad, USB-C only, no Magsafe, the overly thin/flimsy feeling design, etc.

That said, I've ordered one to replace the one I have - I'm getting the 2.2 GHz/16/560x/512GB to replace the 2.6 I bought in the store. Hoping it will run cooler - the keys on the 2.6 get uncomfortably warm.