2018 i9 MacBook Pro throttling discussion [merged]

[hajime]

They are not underperforming. The Coffeelake processors are performing exactly where they should be in real world workflows compared to the previous generation.

The problem is we see people testing 'rendering' workloads on laptops. In a professional and real world environment rendering is done on workstations and server farms. Laptops are only supposed to be used for pre-viz. Even those YouTubers are rendering on workstations and all being disingenuous in their search for clickbait and ad views.

Laptops have always throttled if you try to emulate workstation or server workloads on them. They always will in the future too. Jevon's paradox predicts that no matter how efficient a system becomes, someone somewhere will always try to exploit it excessively. You give someone a 3 inch thick laptop with water cooling and they will find a way to throttle that too.

True. Manufacturers should not advertise that their laptops are workstation class.

 

[ESA]

've got mine i9 now. I get between 1040 and 1080 every time.
Room temperature is 31 degrees (It's a hot day in Sweden today)

Idle is 44 degrees, when on full load first 100 degrees later on 90 degrees.

The processor jumps up to around 4,4 Ghz and then down to 3.3 ghz.

 

[Maven1975]

I gave ThrottleStop a try, and similar to Xtu it did slow down the cpu and wattage. The GPU still throttles after a few minutes though. I mean I can probably go even lower than 13 watt, but should I? This is already 1/3 of the cpu's TDP and speeds to about 1.6Ghz.

Is there anything else that can cause this? It seems that both GPU and CPU have temps in the 60's, that's no reason to throttle right?

The CPU reacts exactly as it did under OSX before the patch.

I really wish Apple would address this because I use Windows for other applications including projects in Premiere.

 

[GerritB]

The CPU reacts exactly as it did under OSX before the patch.

I really wish Apple would address this because I use Windows for other applications including projects in Premiere.

Yes but it's not the CPU that's throttling, that is handled through Intel XTU or ThrottleStop. The GPU throttles after a minute or 2 even though temperatures on both the CPU and GPU are fine.

I have now installed the drivers from Bootcampdrivers.com and it fixed the issue. I can now play perfectly fine and the GPU no longer throttles. The problem is that the card doesn't get fully recognized so you can't see its temperature, I hope that gets fixed in the next release.

So Apple still needs to fix its CPU firmware so it acts the same as in OSX, but the driver currently provided by AMD and Apple for the GPU needs to be replaced as well.

Even after all of this, I still get the crackling sound after a couple of minutes which can only be fixed by restarting the game.

 

[hajime]

Chatted with Apple agent. I mentioned about using software under Bootcamp Windows. He tried to sell me the i9 but when I mentioned about thermal throttling, he wrote that it has been fixed but when I pointed out that the patch is for Mac OS not for Bootcamp Windows, he mentioned that Apple does not share unreleased info with employees.

 

[maflynn]

not for Bootcamp Windows,

If you need to run windows, you may be better off getting a windows machine. I've always found apple to be behind in updating boot camp drivers, where as PC makers, keep things updated, since its their primary focus. Apple's primary focus is macOS.

 

[hajime]

If you need to run windows, you may be better off getting a windows machine. I've always found apple to be behind in updating boot camp drivers, where as PC makers, keep things updated, since its their primary focus. Apple's primary focus is macOS.

Thanks for the suggestions. Ideally, I want a machine that can run Mac OS, Windows and Linux.

 

[ESA]

Its the same with my iMac Pro.
Its a sound bug, after about 45 minutes, the sound start to crack and it get more and more annoying. You then go in and disconnect the soundcard in settings and then turn it on again.

Same with the drivers for the graphic card, it sucks. But bootcampdrivers.com fixed that.

But that audio-bug is annoying as hell. And the speakers sounds A LOT worse in windows, like there is no base.

I understand that Macs are OS X first... but before every Mac worked perfectly in windows, my 2012 iMac from start works with Nvidia drivers.

All these kind of problems is very very strange, how could there not be a fix? I mean what are they doing?

I can never use a PC for work or normal use, only for gaming. But Apple must be more careful.

Before when you bought a Mac, it was like Christmas, now its more like a stomach-pain, that you hope you get a good one.

 

[KarmaRocket]

I'm assuming bootcamp is a low priority since there are probably only a small percentage of users who actually use it.

They also might just be busy working on Mojave and hopefully focusing on fixing the issues for that release.

 

[iMacDragon]

But that audio-bug is annoying as hell. And the speakers sounds A LOT worse in windows, like there is no base.

According to another video it seems Apple are cheating a little with bass, changing low frequencies upwards a bit to make them audible as false frequencies, at least on 15", this probably isn't happening on windows.
[doublepost=1533007245][/doublepost]Just examining XTU under bootcamp further, I notice that 'processor core iccMax' and Cache iccMax are both 128,000A. from what I can determine these are also 'max' values, and probably not helping matters? I notice that the CPU Cache frequency is still throttling badly down to 800mhz even if core frequency isn't when hit point of thermal throttling after manually setting say a 45W TDP target for turbo boost. Is there any way of monitoring CPU Cache frequency on macOS to see behaviour there under Apple's management of cpu?

I'm reasonably confident this is another factor that is causing excessive less visible throttling, at least under bootcamp!

A bit of investigation of intel datasheets shows that 128A is the maximum allowed settings ( same as all the other TDP settings that have been talked about ), and should be set with the power delivery system in mind, specifically point 2 with th: "

1. Processor IA core VR to be designed to electrically support this current.
   
   
2. Processor IA core VR to be designed to thermally support this current indefinitely.
   "

So realistically in smaller chassis portables, should probably be considerably under max.. just further evidence of how sloppily Apple has setup the TDP management at least at base level, perhaps with expectation that T2/macOS would be doing all the finegrained management? but if so, defaults should still be 'sensible' surely. ( and bootcamp seems to be left out of picture entirely )

 

[maflynn]

I'm assuming bootcamp is a low priority since there are probably only a small percentage of users who actually use it.

I think its a no priority, Apple's focus is for promoting the Apple experience. I don't think they've deducted much (if any) resources for bootcamp on this throttling issue.

 

[hajime]

I think its a no priority, Apple's focus is for promoting the Apple experience. I don't think they've deducted much (if any) resources for bootcamp on this throttling issue.

Unfortunately you could be right. If it were the beginning of Bootcamp when they promoted that Mac could also run Windows, they might care. Now I guess they are moving to iPad base MBP so they probably won't do anything about throttling under Windows.

 

[maflynn]

If it were the beginning of Bootcamp when they promoted that Mac could also run Windows,

I remember it a bit differently and maybe both of our recollections are a bit off. There was a burgeoning community that found out you could install windows on an intel Mac. Apple resisted that effort but then realized that by offering bootcamp they could see people wanting a windows OS but have the Mac hardware. I don't think it was ever a priority for them. Boot camp drivers were always late in coming out, non optimized and generally not great. I've always had one or two issues with running windows on my Mac in boot camp. Nothing major but annoying little things.

 

[macpcf]

Another failure of new macbook pros. It cannot be used to cook an egg. too bad I was going to use it as the frying pan time to time.

 

[jrichards1408]

Another failure of new macbook pros. It cannot be used to cook an egg. too bad I was going to use it as the frying pan time to time.

Wtf

 

[Ma2k5]

Laptops have always throttled if you try to emulate workstation or server workloads on them. They always will in the future too. Jevon's paradox predicts that no matter how efficient a system becomes, someone somewhere will always try to exploit it excessively. You give someone a 3 inch thick laptop with water cooling and they will find a way to throttle that too.

Not quite. There are laptops which can maintain 100% clock speeds (with turbo boost) indefinitely without throttling. But they aren't in the class of MacBooks/XPS/X1 in terms of chassis or cooling.

 

[macpcf]

Do you guys think these new macbook pros are suited to be used in hot climates? I am leaving to Sri Lanka next year where the temperature is around 30-34 C most of the year. And I use my laptop all the time for running scripts, casual games etc. I currently have the 2015 model which runs hot at load, I used it nearly for 3 years (machine is given by work) and it has been reliable so far. The only issue is the battery life has dropped to 3 hours or so from 8 hours, which I can live with. To be honest, I love my experience with macbook pro so far and seriously want to buy a new mac, but these issues are kind of bugging me. The only other laptop that is available for support in my destination is aero 15x with nvidea 1070. I am kind of in a dilemma regarding which one to buy. I am willing to sacrifice the graphics performance of aero because of the macos but I hope these issues will be sorted out. I use bootcamp for gaming as well, so i hope the bootcamp issues will be sorted out as well.

 

[p8blr]

All CPUs compared:

 

[Kevinfinity]

All CPUs compared:

Nice. This is what I am looking for in a long time. In this forum almost every new topic about MacBook Pro is about i9. like everyone got the i9 model...

 

[RumorConsumer]

Yea I am stuck in the same dilemma now. I want the 2.6 GHz but the scores are not convincing yet when compared to the 2.2.

Right but to pull the trigger now before perhaps another performance fix might be just around the corner..
[doublepost=1533127000][/doublepost]E

I think its a no priority, Apple's focus is for promoting the Apple experience. I don't think they've deducted much (if any) resources for bootcamp on this throttling issue.

Especially also since virtualization is so dominant v native. Agree w your earlier comment on buy a PC.