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bswinnerton

macrumors newbie
Jun 30, 2009
12
3
Look at that CPU temp! 130 degrees C?

That's actually 130 degrees Fahrenheit, which is relatively cold for a CPU temperature. It's well exceeded that since I've received the new computer.

Seems to be a OS problem? DId you contact apple support?

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT207359 seems to imply that this might actually be a result of temperature (hardware) problem:

> In other words, kernel_task responds to conditions that cause your CPU to become too hot, even if your Mac doesn't feel hot to you. It does not itself cause those conditions. When the CPU temperature decreases, kernel_task automatically reduces its activity.

In either case, I hope to bring it into the Apple store soon. It's just frustrating because it's not reproducible and I don't have much evidence for them to go on. Hopefully a diagnostic check will surface something. My hunch is something is wrong with the battery or the SMC (which I've reset) and the CPU is getting throttled when the battery gets to a critically low range, but the battery charge isn't being correctly reported.
 

agaskew

macrumors 6502
Dec 3, 2009
416
253
Yeah you compiled the issues nicely. If you are lucky enough to get a good machine without faults, you are golden, can knock the macbook pro out of the park any day, otherwise it is bad. Some of the issues like coil whine worsens over time, most of the users have experienced it after 2 or 3 months using the laptop and then the sound becomes unbearable over time. I know macbook pros have lots of issues as well but it is the probability of getting those and how you they handle the service that matters. If any competitor has better quality laptop with a given specs, it would be an easy decision to switch from the macs

I'm afraid this lottery apsect sounds much like buying any brand of laptop these days :(
I just ordered the top end i9 XPS 15 so will see what turns up. My needs are not the usual ones in these type of threads, I don't do video crunching and so on but do have the need to run pretty monstrous VMs and 16Gb doesn't cut it any more. I've had a few MacBooks over the last 10 years, still have them - a 2009 Air with the hinge issue, 2011 17 inch Pro still going OK and a mid 2014 top end rMBP which IMO is the last great MBP they made.
Sorry...rambling.
 
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macpcf

macrumors regular
Jul 17, 2018
104
43
USA
I'm afraid this lottery apsect sounds much like buying any brand of laptop these days :(
I just ordered the top end i9 XPS 15 so will see what turns up. My needs are not the usual ones in these type of threads, I don't do video crunching and so on but do have the need to run pretty monstrous VMs and 16Gb doesn't cut it any more. I've had a few MacBooks over the last 10 years, still have them - a 2009 Air with the hinge issue, 2011 17 inch Pro still going OK and a mid 2014 top end rMBP which IMO is the last great MBP they made.
Sorry...rambling.
I agree.. I hope they should put little more effort on quality control whether its macbook or xps. They are not cheap machine, people pay top price and expect better
 
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Trolle

macrumors member
May 24, 2016
90
102
Man, people are really on the offensive for these laptops at this point. Chill the **** out and enjoy your computer; it's a beast and seriously stunning.
 
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hajime

macrumors 604
Jul 23, 2007
7,906
1,306
I'm afraid this lottery apsect sounds much like buying any brand of laptop these days :(
I just ordered the top end i9 XPS 15 so will see what turns up. My needs are not the usual ones in these type of threads, I don't do video crunching and so on but do have the need to run pretty monstrous VMs and 16Gb doesn't cut it any more. I've had a few MacBooks over the last 10 years, still have them - a 2009 Air with the hinge issue, 2011 17 inch Pro still going OK and a mid 2014 top end rMBP which IMO is the last great MBP they made.
Sorry...rambling.

I would rather buy a brand new 2014 top end rMBP than a 2018 MBP.
 
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augustya

Suspended
Feb 17, 2012
3,331
464
Man, people are really on the offensive for these laptops at this point. Chill the **** out and enjoy your computer; it's a beast and seriously stunning.

Stunning Yes ! ;) Beast ?? don't know ?? :(because Mr. Dave Lee who proved as a Messiah for this enlightenment still says it has become a notch better after the Patch, but still not upto the Mark !!
 
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blackreplica

macrumors regular
Sep 28, 2010
105
49
Stunning Yes ! ;) Beast ?? don't know ?? :(because Mr. Dave Lee who proved as a Messiah for this enlightenment still says it has become a notch better afterbtye Patch, but still not upto the Mark !!

He is right. The processors are underperforming but there is no fix for that as the chassis design is locked in. Either put up with it or buy the next redesugned MBP
 
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Jul 4, 2015
4,487
2,551
Paris
He is right. The processors are underperforming but there is no fix for that as the chassis design is locked in. Either put up with it or buy the next redesugned MBP

They are not underperforming. The Coffeelake processors are performing exactly where they should be in real world workflows compared to the previous generation.

The problem is we see people testing 'rendering' workloads on laptops. In a professional and real world environment rendering is done on workstations and server farms. Laptops are only supposed to be used for pre-viz. Even those YouTubers are rendering on workstations and all being disingenuous in their search for clickbait and ad views.

Laptops have always throttled if you try to emulate workstation or server workloads on them. They always will in the future too. Jevon's paradox predicts that no matter how efficient a system becomes, someone somewhere will always try to exploit it excessively. You give someone a 3 inch thick laptop with water cooling and they will find a way to throttle that too.
 

blackreplica

macrumors regular
Sep 28, 2010
105
49
"The problem is we see people testing 'rendering' workloads on laptops."

So, in other words, "I'm holding it wrong". And yet Final Cut Pro X installs and is fully functional in their top tier, highest perfoming, laptop, the macbook PRO

"Laptops have always throttled if you try to emulate workstation or server workloads on them"

Oh, really?

With white knights like yourself to defend every misstep, its no wonder apple has become so brazen of late
 

GerritB

macrumors regular
Jul 18, 2018
116
82
I've been having a lot of problems with the GPU throttling while gaming after just a few minutes in Bootcamp. This is with using Intel Xtu to control power management. I'm hoping that somebody sees where things go wrong, maybe it's just a setting I have to switch around. I'm afraid though that you just can't use the CPU and GPU for longer than a few minutes, even when limiting the CPU by a lot.

So right now my settings:
  • Bootcamp, Windows 10 Pro, Powermode: Best performance
  • Windows power management for CPU: 99%
  • Intel Xtu: 15 Watts, disabled Turbo Power max
  • Multipliers at 24x (changing them lower or up doesn't seem to make a difference on whether or not the GPU is throttling.
  • Device is fully charged and plugged in.
Outcome when playing Fortnite.
  • the CPU is at 68 Celsius, pulling in around 12-14 Watts. No thermal throttling, speeds up to 2.4Ghz.
  • After 2 minutes the GPU starts throttling down to 303Mhz and then further down to 213.
  • GPU memory used around 2400mb
  • GPU 63 degrees, GPU only power draw 10 to 23 Watts.
  • Framerate goes from almost steady 60fps to 15-20 fps.

This is with the fans fully on using the application on MacOs and then restarting, but it doesn't seem to make a difference either way.

Edit: Specs are i9, 32gb, 1tb.
 
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Jul 4, 2015
4,487
2,551
Paris
"The problem is we see people testing 'rendering' workloads on laptops."

So, in other words, "I'm holding it wrong". And yet Final Cut Pro X installs and is fully functional in their top tier, highest perfoming, laptop, the macbook PRO

"Laptops have always throttled if you try to emulate workstation or server workloads on them"

Oh, really?

With white knights like yourself to defend every misstep, its no wonder apple has become so brazen of late

If you stopped for two seconds before posting you would have checked I’m mostly active in the Mac Pro forum where we have been protesting the state of desktop Mac workstations for a long time. If the workstations were regularly updated then we would see MacBook Pro users only pre-viz on mobile devices and finish of on the desktop - the way every serious and respectable studio does.

As a stop gap measure until the Mac Pro is released, Apple partnered with Blackmagic to give laptop users a compute solution until the Mac Pro comes out. There are cheaper and more powerful eGPU solutions too.

Nobody worth an ounce of respect says ‘You know what? I think I’ll render out this whole feature film or Pixar movie on a laptop.’

Their clients would laugh. Rival studios would steal their clients.

If you can’t understand what thin and light laptops are for then you don’t have much space for argument in a professional discussion.
 
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blackreplica

macrumors regular
Sep 28, 2010
105
49
If you stopped for two seconds before posting you would have checked I’m mostly active in the Mac Pro forum where we have been protesting the state of desktop Mac workstations for a long time. If the workstations were regularly updated then we would see MacBook Pro users only pre-viz on mobile devices and finish of on the desktop - the way every serious and respectable studio does.

As a stop gap measure until the Mac Pro is released, Apple partnered with Blackmagic to give laptop users a compute solution until the Mac Pro comes out. There are cheaper and more powerful eGPU solutions too.

Nobody worth an ounce of respect says ‘You know what? I think I’ll render out this whole feature film or Pixar movie on a laptop.’

Their clients would laugh. Rival studios would steal their clients.

If you can’t understand what thin and light laptops are for then you don’t have much space for argument in a professional discussion.

Stop making straw man arguments.

Your activity in the mac pro form has nothing to do with the issue at hand

The vast majority of buyers and users of the macbook pro are NOT rendering Pixar movies and still have every right to be called pro users, hence their purchase of apple's best performing laptop model. They are doing simple things like gaming, photo editing and rendering youtube videos and when doing so the macbook pro is barely able to keep its clock above base. To keep things simple I am ignoring the cases even post patch when the cpu can still be brought well below its base clock under sustained load

In addition the laptop never comes anywhere close to reaching max advertised boost clock of 4.8GHz

The macbook pro is heavily thermally restricted by its case design, a failure of the thin & light ethos when apple is trying to appeal to power users with the word PRO in its product name. Pre patch, it was a failure. Post patch, it is inadequate compared to the competition. And there is no fix.

Please stop making excuses for them and let them learn their lesson
 
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ESA

macrumors member
Oct 25, 2015
83
56
IF you install that update, and afterwards install Mojave. Will it be fine then?
 

Queen6

macrumors G4
I've been having a lot of problems with the GPU throttling while gaming after just a few minutes in Bootcamp. This is with using Intel Xtu to control power management. I'm hoping that somebody sees where things go wrong, maybe it's just a setting I have to switch around. I'm afraid though that you just can't use the CPU and GPU for longer than a few minutes, even when limiting the CPU by a lot.

So right now my settings:
  • Bootcamp, Windows 10 Pro, Powermode: Best performance
  • Windows power management for CPU: 99%
  • Intel Xtu: 15 Watts, disabled Turbo Power max
  • Multipliers at 24x (changing them lower or up doesn't seem to make a difference on whether or not the GPU is throttling.
  • Device is fully charged and plugged in.
Outcome when playing Fortnite.
  • the CPU is at 68 Celsius, pulling in around 12-14 Watts. No thermal throttling, speeds up to 2.4Ghz.
  • After 2 minutes the GPU starts throttling down to 303Mhz and then further down to 213.
  • GPU memory used around 2400mb
  • GPU 63 degrees, GPU only power draw 10 to 23 Watts.
  • Framerate goes from almost steady 60fps to 15-20 fps.

This is with the fans fully on using the application on MacOs and then restarting, but it doesn't seem to make a difference either way.

Edit: Specs are i9, 32gb, 1tb.


Reduce the CPU power limit, looks like your over the budget between the CPU & GPU. I'd also avoid XTU and replace with ThrottleStop and dial down the Turbo and or reduce CPU TDP (assuming Apple not locked everything)

Q-6
 
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Scott Robinson

macrumors member
Jan 20, 2014
45
29
Curious about how the same issue affects other Macbooks I looked at how my current machine compares doing a fairly common task such as exporting an After Effects comp and then encoding in Media Encoder. And low and behold it runs a overclock for a short period of time and then maintains at it clock speed for the duration. Dipping back and forth occasionally. This is true of my 2013, my 2009, 2006 macbook and the ones before that. While I agree that the new thin design is adding even more restrictions... this is the nature of Apple laptops for as long as I have been a professional using them as a tool. Thing is I've never felt the urge to run Intel Power Gadget until now. Apple Macbooks pros are well built, perform well for most tasks and will usually keep running day in day out until you need an upgrade. For some pros that's a good definition of a Pro machine ... one that doesn't get in the may.
 

maflynn

macrumors Haswell
May 3, 2009
73,682
43,740
I'd also avoid XTU
For what ever reason, I couldn't adjust the values on my MBP in windows within XTU. I downloaded a fresh copy of it, but everything was locked. I'm not sure why, but I'll try ThrottleStop the next time I boot into windows. Any Fan management apps that you recommend, I prefer to manage the fans myself if I can help it
 
Jul 4, 2015
4,487
2,551
Paris
Stop making straw man arguments.

Your activity in the mac pro form has nothing to do with the issue at hand

The vast majority of buyers and users of the macbook pro are NOT rendering Pixar movies and still have every right to be called pro users, hence their purchase of apple's best performing laptop model. They are doing simple things like gaming, photo editing and rendering youtube videos and when doing so the macbook pro is barely able to keep its clock above base. To keep things simple I am ignoring the cases even post patch when the cpu can still be brought well below its base clock under sustained load

In addition the laptop never comes anywhere close to reaching max advertised boost clock of 4.8GHz

The macbook pro is heavily thermally restricted by its case design, a failure of the thin & light ethos when apple is trying to appeal to power users with the word PRO in its product name. Pre patch, it was a failure. Post patch, it is inadequate compared to the competition. And there is no fix.

Please stop making excuses for them and let them learn their lesson

The MacBook Pro, like many laptops and the PowerBook before it, is not a finishing tool.

You can model in 3D on it but it’s not going to handle the amount of polygons that a dedicated workstation can. It will throttle if you tried.

You can edit 4K video but you’re not going to get the performance or storage of a dedicated workstation. If you throw a high end production amount of data at it then it will throttle.

You can color grade video on it but you’ll be stuck with Rec 709 or P3. The screen doesn’t support Rec 2020 standard required by HDR. Use a workstation monitor for finishing.

You can edit photos on it and it has an amazing screen but if you are serious about color accuracy you need a workstation monitor because the laptop’s screen only does 83% of Adobe’s color gamut.

You can game on it but it is impractical to use it as a gaming machine or demand that it should perform as one.

If you are a professional who I serious about their tools, then you will have a range of devices and peripherals - each for their specific task. A laptop is good for design, architecture, writing, photography, editing and pre-viz, but is is not a fully fledged workstation or a finishing tool.

I have had 15 Mac laptops since the 90s and never ever expected them to be a finishing tool, gaming device or workstation.
 
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lovejimbo

macrumors newbie
Jul 23, 2018
15
24
Curious about how the same issue affects other Macbooks I looked at how my current machine compares doing a fairly common task such as exporting an After Effects comp and then encoding in Media Encoder. And low and behold it runs a overclock for a short period of time and then maintains at it clock speed for the duration. Dipping back and forth occasionally. This is true of my 2013, my 2009, 2006 macbook and the ones before that. While I agree that the new thin design is adding even more restrictions... this is the nature of Apple laptops for as long as I have been a professional using them as a tool. Thing is I've never felt the urge to run Intel Power Gadget until now. Apple Macbooks pros are well built, perform well for most tasks and will usually keep running day in day out until you need an upgrade. For some pros that's a good definition of a Pro machine ... one that doesn't get in the may.

Yea - that’s my attitude to it.

I’ve recently returned a Alienware 17 r5 that I was going to use as a replacement to my 2017 3.1ghz MacBook Pro.

I’m Windows savvy due to being a freelance Creative Director and Animator and often using other production house equipment and thought nothing of the change - just wanted to get more power and was put off by the i9 MacBook reports.

From the get go I was having issues with the Alienware and Windows drivers not taking kindly to the various programmes I use and was experiencing multiple blue screens each day, strange quirks and general Windows roughness.

Over the 12 days I had the machine I would have a daily issue that would need troubleshooting, ranging from a 10min fix, to a few hours... granted, this is probably teething pains, but it was also something that shook my confidence in the machine.

I’d go to bed thinking a render was being output, and then wake up to find it having restarted, or I’d turn the machine on for the day and find tasks that it performed the day before would be suddenly not work anymore and involve 30min of trouble shooting, or that the battery had died when I’d unplugged it, shut the case and travelled an hour to a clients studio.

I couldn’t have this happening during deadline races, the general feeling of uneasiness as to how it’d perform or worry that it might fall flat without notice - that would lose me productivity and in a worst case scenario, clients!

So now I have returned it and bought a 2018 i9 MacBook Pro.

As with all my past Apple hardware upgrades - it’s simple and gets the job done without complaint. I’ve always found them to be reliable and conducive to productivity. I press a button, it turns on and I can jump into my programmes and do my work.

The processor might not perform quite as fast as thicker Windows machines - but it’s the only option I’ve got for the ease of use and stability I’ve had from MacOS over the years.

I’d rather be a tortoise that reliably and predictably gets the jobs I need done, than a hare that sprints to the finish line with the potential to stumble and trip.

It sits in my office connected to a 1080ti for the CUDA processing in Octane Render and Premiere and is easily transportable for off site work and getting bits done on the commute.

As for the power differences... I have a After Effects project that I’ve used to benchmark for years with lots of depth, blurs and plugins to stress the system.

On a 2010 8 core Mac Pro it used to take 4hr 38min to output.

On my 2017 3.1ghz i7 16GB MBP it would take 34min 53sec

On the i9 2.9ghz Alienware 17 r5 32GB set to overclock 2 it would take 12min 26sec

On the i9 2.9ghz 32GB it takes 14min 53sec

Don’t know the ins and outs of it all - all I know is that project is representative of some general heavy lifting that my machine would need to do.

It’s substantially faster than my last laptop, 2min slower than a Windows beast and still offers me the ease of use and reliability I’m accustomed to.

I’m raising my kids and paying my mortgage with this stuff and as long as the machine can enable you to achieve your vision predictably and reliably, that’s all I can ask for.

The machine doesn’t do good work, you do.

Christ, we were producing great work back in the early 2000’s with Power PC chips and 2GB RAM!
 

Queen6

macrumors G4
For what ever reason, I couldn't adjust the values on my MBP in windows within XTU. I downloaded a fresh copy of it, but everything was locked. I'm not sure why, but I'll try ThrottleStop the next time I boot into windows. Any Fan management apps that you recommend, I prefer to manage the fans myself if I can help it

Likely Apple has locked things up at a lower level. You should be able to see the Proc states in W10 under HWinfo64. I believe that the VID's are locked by Apple so no Undervolting…

If so you wont fair much better with ThrottleStop, unless you want to get into some serious Hex editing with RWEverything :p

Mac Fan Control for OS X, I believe they have version for W10 under BootCamp, SpeedFan is another. In all transparency I've not had the need to meddle with the fans on the W10 systems as the notebooks I buy have fan/power profiling built in by the OEM. GL703GS has a TDP in the region of 230W and runs relatively cool at full tilt.

BTW XTU is a PIA to completely remove, ensure you reset all CPU registers to default and shutdown fully (Shift Key held down) ThrottleStop is just an App and does not look to adjust BIOS values, hence why I prefer :)

Q-6
 

blackreplica

macrumors regular
Sep 28, 2010
105
49
The MacBook Pro, like many laptops and the PowerBook before it, is not a finishing tool.

You can model in 3D on it but it’s not going to handle the amount of polygons that a dedicated workstation can. It will throttle if you tried.

You can edit 4K video but you’re not going to get the performance or storage of a dedicated workstation. If you throw a high end production amount of data at it then it will throttle.

You can color grade video on it but you’ll be stuck with Rec 709 or P3. The screen doesn’t support Rec 2020 standard required by HDR. Use a workstation monitor for finishing.

You can edit photos on it and it has an amazing screen but if you are serious about color accuracy you need a workstation monitor because the laptop’s screen only does 83% of Adobe’s color gamut.

You can game on it but it is impractical to use it as a gaming machine or demand that it should perform as one.

If you are a professional who I serious about their tools, then you will have a range of devices and peripherals - each for their specific task. A laptop is good for design, architecture, writing, photography, editing and pre-viz, but is is not a fully fledged workstation or a finishing tool.

I have had 15 Mac laptops since the 90s and never ever expected them to be a finishing tool, gaming device or workstation.


It comes down to this and I will say it again. Apple's design choices have reduced the capability of the laptop to something lower than any of it's i9 peers during sustained loads, whether professional or otherwise. You can sugarcoat it all your like with that nonsense about 'finishing tools' but the fact is, amongst its peers, it is inadequate and also very expensive for it's inadequacy.
 
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maflynn

macrumors Haswell
May 3, 2009
73,682
43,740
Likely Apple has locked things up at a lower level. You should be able to see the Proc states in W10 under HWinfo64. I believe that the VID's are locked by Apple so no Undervolting…
I think its more likely that XTU couldn't handle Coffee Lake. I was able to change the slider on the Razer blade but it had zero affect, researching a bit while owning the Razer, my experience was common. I was hoping that intel updated it so I could ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I'll give ThrottleStop a looksie.
 

GerritB

macrumors regular
Jul 18, 2018
116
82
I gave ThrottleStop a try, and similar to Xtu it did slow down the cpu and wattage. The GPU still throttles after a few minutes though. I mean I can probably go even lower than 13 watt, but should I? This is already 1/3 of the cpu's TDP and speeds to about 1.6Ghz.

Is there anything else that can cause this? It seems that both GPU and CPU have temps in the 60's, that's no reason to throttle right?
 
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