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2018 i9 MacBook Pro throttling discussion [merged]
- Thread starter M.Rizk
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So he should be forgiving of Apple offering to take US$300 of his money for a downgrade of performance? If you don't care about performance in demanding tasks in comparison with competition, then buy a 12" macbook or iPad Pro.
I think that CPUs that are advertised to output 28Watt under load should also output 28Watt under load
Lets look at it critically. Producing hotter and hotter chips and requiring more cooling is not the way to go. What we need is architectural improvements, true performance-to-watt increase. Intel was supposed to bring out new CPU architectures, what, two years ago? Instead we are getting the same old Skylake core, just pushed more and more to the limit and getting fancier and fancier name (Kaby Lake, Coffee Lake, Whiskey Lake, Amber Lake, all for the variations of essentially the same design). Since they can't really make new chips, what they do is sell factory overlocked chips, now with more of the same cores, using clear tricks like short bursts of very high boost frequency etc. etc.
It was clear from the start that Coffee Lake is a compromise, an attempt to get more performance out of old architecture. I would have hoped though that the performance-per-watt would have been improved. Instead, it seems like they simply overclocked the CPUs with little to no efficiency updates. If so, the result is of course predictable...
Anyway, I'll wait for my i9 model, test it our rigorously, and if I see significant throttling, it goes back until truly new CPUs are available.
10nm x86 is probably not going to happen anytime in the next couple years; here's a very interesting piece about the lone 10nm chip that staggered out of intel: https://www.semiaccurate.com/2018/05/29/is-intels-upcoming-10nm-launch-real-or-a-pr-stunt/
If you ask me, Brian Krzanich left Intel because of 10nm -- the relationship with an employee was as good as an excuse as any.
I did excessive testing of the i7-6920, and in CPU-only operation (no GPU workload) it kept steady 3.3-3.4 Ghz on multi-threaded operation, with no dips over time. I never saw max advertised single threaded frequency (3.8Ghz) in single threaded tests, but there was obviously more then one core active and there were also no dips over time. The frequency stayed stable. I am sure that better cooling would result in better performance, but my results show that cooling works as indicated. It doesn't become overwhelmed and there is no throttling over time. Third party tests (e.g. notebookcheck) confirm this — the performance is stable over multiple runs of taxing tests.
[doublepost=1531914287][/doublepost]
I can only hope that their other attempts (e.g. Ice Lake) will be a success. Otherwise, we are really stuck. It doesn't seem like AMD has anything better to offer either, their chips have even lower instruction throughput. I only hope that this trend doesn't continue and that we won't go back to hotter and hotter machines just for the sake of maintaining sales.
Exactly as expected. Based on 8750H frequench chart though, atleast the base model seems to maintain its base frequency (2.2 GHz) under full load. The base MBP with SSD upgrade + graphic might be the best option for a would be buyer.
No, because Apple hasn't downgraded anything. Downgraded to what exactly? Your personal hypothetical speed? The speed of the CPU in a freezer? Every mobile device faces throttling, and Apple is selling an ultraportable pro laptop.
I do care about performance, and if anyone thinks these i9 CPUs won't preform well, they are running benchmarks rather than, you know, doing stuff. These are super-fast CPUs.
Also, if anyone is to blame, it's Intel. Apple can't put CPUs that perform better because there are not CPUs that perform better. "But Apple could make a thicker notebooks" - No. No they can't. Because pros need mobility. Only people on Macrumors Forums have issues with notebooks becoming lighter and more portable.
Okay, they didn't downgrade it -- they just offer a part for US$300 which performs slower than the stock part under sustained load.
False
false because of the pro part
Doesn't it bother you that they perform worse than nearly all other laptops with the same hardware or slower? I know they aren't running MacOS, but you can compare the cooling designs and performance.
Intel has fumbled hard, but other OEMs tried a little harder to deal with the added power draw and heat of Coffee Lake-H. At least Dell redesigned the voltage-regular module on the XPS 15 (dell also offers an i9 in the XPS 15, which is also thievery)
True, but they can make them closer to how they perform in competitor's products.
Because?
lol says who?
Seems like you've drawn this line rather arbitrarily. At what point does the MBP 15 become literally too thick and heavy? Is the 2015 MBP too thick and heavy? Fair enough -- is the XPS 15 too thick and heavy? There is no excuse for sacrificing thermals, connectivity, and battery life to make a professional's machine 1-2mm thinner.
So inside a freezer, the MBP is no longer thin and light.
Actually the dave2d video shows him doing a render and it not performing as well. We're not talking about synthetic benchmarks that is causing the issue, but he used Premier in a real world scenario
I am on board with that I don't like doing extended bench marks etc to test how well the laptop takes it. I do think there are two things that have been pointed out that is of valid concern however
1) Not able to maintain base clock speed under load. Even if it is a bench mark, it should manage this feat.
2) D2D seems to have shown some real use case scenario's of video rendering, where last years model did it faster. This is probably just one example of other real world use cases that could also become true (e.g. if you are compiling something huge).
It could be Apple comes out with a fix for this and I am quiety optimistic about that. I am giving Apple the benefit of the doubt that they didn't let this slip past, and it's just a bug/issue that can be resolved.
I just purchased an i9 model with 32GB of RAM and a 1TB SSD. Wondering if I should return it for the i7 instead.
I wish I could compare them both and do some benchmarks between the i9 and i7. It’s not that I don’t believe the D2D video but is this an issue with the i7 as well. Also perhaps there is something Apple can do in software to fix this.
I wish I could compare them both and do some benchmarks between the i9 and i7. It’s not that I don’t believe the D2D video but is this an issue with the i7 as well. Also perhaps there is something Apple can do in software to fix this.
Also, I'd be much more forgiving of Apple to pull this if they weren't charging an arm and a leg for these products. To me, this is a couple compromises too many:
- can't upgrade or swap SSD
- can't upgrade or swap RAM
- can't fix yourself
- touchbar
- no touchscreen
- runs slower than same components in most products from much smaller OEMs
- no ports but USB-C
- Costs 3-4000 USD for a decent configuration. (see: can't upgrade)
now i wanna cancel my i9 order
[doublepost=1531916659][/doublepost]how can apple make a more expesnive high end model thats worse than lower one this is not right and for that much money apple is doing my head in latly
[doublepost=1531916659][/doublepost]how can apple make a more expesnive high end model thats worse than lower one this is not right and for that much money apple is doing my head in latly
MSI suggest TDP is closer to 150W at full tilt on the i9 and have beefed up the cooling on their laptops using the exact same chip as the 2018 MBP as a result.
https://www.msi.com/blog/why-8th-gen-core-i9-i7-and-i5-are-real-deal-and-faster-than-core-i7-7700hq
If you check the spec sheets for the i9 and the i7 they have the same TDP, despite the i7 being clocked slower, which makes no sense.
Intel's TDP figures are also based on some totally arbitrary load scenario.
I just bought an i9 but I really think we need further benchmarks and a more detailed analysis before I make my return. The 14 day mark looms heavy as I hope Apple responds or we have more intensive benchmarking.
I would love to run some benchmarks myself. Does anyone have the i7 model that they would like to compare in Adobe CC apps and FCPX?
In the exact same situation as you. Waiting to see how things play out the next few days. The internet is exploding from D2D's video. Hopefully Apple responds.
I don't have a 2018, but I know of an app (http://volta.garymathews.com/) that lets you undervolt the CPU. Might be worth a try. Have no idea if this would affect any returns or warranty work?
"Volta has been tested with Haswell Macbook Pros (2013, 2014 and 2015). Some functionalities such as undervolting may not be compatible with your model. To test compatibility, you can use Volta free for 7-days."
My 2017 CPU was locked, so I expect the 2018s will not allow undervolting either.
There is practically no chance of damaging a CPU with an UV. Never heard of a single case.
My 2017 CPU was locked, so I expect the 2018s will not allow undervolting either.
There is practically no chance of damaging a CPU with an UV. Never heard of a single case.
David2D mentioned that his i9 was unlocked. I have no idea to be honest. How would we undervolt it in macOS? XTU is windows only.
This guy has been saying the truths for hours on this topic. Simply, there is no need to be a fan boy unless you are shareholder. Intel is also to be blamed but the manufacturers surely did test the devices before the release. I've doubted this coming and just passed to iMac. Next step is to sell my 15" Touch Bar and get a simple and hassle free maybe 2nd hand MacBook Air. Until then I see, if Apple will still stick to its useless "always thinner and lighter" habit or not for the next case design.
Unlocked there means that it can be overclocked, not referring to the voltage. The voltages (VIDs) won't be changable so you cannot undervolt.
Is that something to do with macOS? I've seen that people have been undervolting their Dell XPS 15s https://www.reddit.com/r/Dell/comments/8m2u6f/undervolting_the_xps_15_9570_i9_2018_coffee_lake/.
Not surprised it's looking this bad on Premiere Pro. Throttling is there for sure.
Just wondering why people are ignoring iPhonedo's video though? Seems like rendering times are faster on FCP X across the board.
Just wondering why people are ignoring iPhonedo's video though? Seems like rendering times are faster on FCP X across the board.