2018 iPad

[rui no onna]

Yeah I know. I just think it's being crippled a little too fast. How's the Air 1 on iOS 11? I have read here that it wasn't all too well compared to older versions and other iPads. It supports it and removes features, only to still have performance decrease anyway.
No other iPad - correct me if I'm wrong - had 2GB of RAM when the Air 1 was launched; yet, the 12.9 Pro was precedent for 4GB. Apple still skimped on RAM. For people who update their iPads regardless of performance drop statements by other people, it doesn't look all too well for iOS 12 or 13.

It's not just RAM that's the issue with the Air. It's the GPU, too. It has the same GPU as the iPhone 5s (1136*640=727,040 pixels) while powering a 2048*1536 (3,145,728) pixel display. Note, all other retina iPads have X version chipsets with beefed up graphics albeit the A5X still didn't have the oomph to power the retina display. Come to think of it, it was graphics performance and not CPU that's the biggest failing on the iPad 3, too. Iirc, it was 2x GPU performance improvement vs iPad 2 for 4x the number of pixels.

That said, iirc iPad Air on iOS 11 is still faster than iPad 2/3 on iOS 8-9. iPad Air on iOS 11 is definitely sluggish but it's not quite as painfully slow like the iPad 2/3 on iOS 8-9 were.

Apple always skimps on RAM. I'm actually more surprised when they bump up the RAM. I expect 4GB wasn't because Apple was feeling generous but because it was necessary for the 12.9's 2732*2048 (5,595,136) pixel display.

Having used iOS (or iPhone OS) since the original iPhone (2007) and having seen its progression, nope, I don't think the Pro 9.7 is being crippled too fast. Besides, the limitation in this case isn't really all that useful on the 2016 Pro 9.7's smaller display. There were more nonsensical limitations on features for previous products. At least this one's understandable.
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https://www.imore.com/ipad-6#geekbench

~3250/5850

Still not a ginormous improvement over the 1830/4450 of the iPad Air 2, at least for multi-core. It's about 1/3rd faster multi-core.

We have the Air 2, Pro 9.7, 2017 iPad (A9) and 2nd gen Pro 12.9 in our household and honestly, there's no significant difference among them for general usage (web browsing, email, video streaming, etc) despite the A10X's 3900 GB4 single-core and 9300 GB4 multi-core scores.

I reckon past the A8X/A9, performance increases are just gravy for basic use and really more helpful for those who run resource-hungry apps. Kinda like how, say, a Core 2 Duo E8400 (circa 2008?) paired with at least 4GB RAM and SSD still works quite well for general tasks even now. Incidentally, GB4 single-core for E8400 is ~1800 similar to the A8X.

 

[EugW]

We have the Air 2, Pro 9.7, 2017 iPad (A9) and 2nd gen Pro 12.9 in our household and honestly, there's no significant difference among them for general usage (web browsing, email, video streaming, etc) despite the A10X's 3900 GB4 single-core and 9300 GB4 multi-core scores.

I reckon past the A8X/A9, performance increases are just gravy for basic use and really more helpful for those who run resource-hungry apps. Kinda like how, say, a Core 2 Duo E8400 (circa 2008?) paired with at least 4GB RAM and SSD still works quite well for general tasks even now. Incidentally, GB4 single-core for E8400 is ~1800 similar to the A8X.

That's what everyone always says... then Boom!... Apple releases a new version of iOS which changes all that. The iPad 2 lagged moderately with iOS 8 and then iOS 9 killed it.

BTW, I have three Core 2 Duo Macs in my house. I also had an Athlon II X3 435 Windows PC, which is faster than an e8400. I just upgraded the Athlon 3-core to a Phenom 6-core which is about twice as fast, because the Athlon was lagging in some stuff, including just surfing and Netflix when you launched a menu.

In terms of the iPad Air 2, I think it's fine, but it also feels slower than it used to be. With iOS 11 it's still nice to use, but the lag is starting to appear. Also, while it reloads Safari tabs much less often than 1 GB machines, it still does. A 4 GB machine would likely have even less tab reloads. (At least my iPhone 7 Plus with 3 GB RAM has less tab reloads, but that's not a direct comparison.) I suspect that iOS 12 will still be OK on it, but iOS 12 is probably when it truly starts to show its age.

 

[rui no onna]

That's what everyone always says... then Boom!... Apple releases a new version of iOS which changes all that. The iPad 2 lagged moderately with iOS 8 and then iOS 9 killed it.

BTW, I have three Core 2 Duo Macs in my house. I also had an Athlon II X3 435 Windows PC, which is faster than an e8400. I just upgraded the Athlon 3-core to a Phenom 6-core which is about twice as fast, because the Athlon was lagging in some stuff, including just surfing and Netflix when you launched a menu.

In terms of the iPad Air 2, I think it's fine, but it also feels slower than it used to be. With iOS 11 it's still nice to use, but the lag is starting to appear. Also, while it reloads Safari tabs much less often than 1 GB machines, it still does. A 4 GB machine would likely have even less tab reloads. (At least my iPhone 7 Plus with 3 GB RAM has less tab reloads, but that's not a direct comparison.) I suspect that iOS 12 will still be OK on it, but iOS 12 is probably when it truly starts to show its age.

Tab reloads is a function of RAM so yes, 4GB definitely reloads less often. However, Safari for iOS seems to be smarter now and actually caches webpages to disk and remembers the position in the page where you left off so tab reloading isn't quite as frustrating as it used to be. Also, it seems a lot of forums have compensated and now auto-save drafts of replies, etc.

Yes, there's still inevitable slowdown but it's taking much longer now compared to before. I used to upgrade iOS devices at least every two years without fail due to performance (or lack thereof). Personally, I didn't find the iPad 2 on iOS 8 to be just lagging moderately. It felt downright unbearable.

Had an Athlon II X4 635, too, but I dunno, the E8400 actually felt more responsive to me. Both were on Windows 7 64-bit with 4GB RAM. Granted, I have very few tasks running in the background. For heavy multitasking, no doubt the Athlon II X3 would have been better. The X4, I got for x264 encoding.

 

[sracer]

Tab reloads is a function of RAM so yes, 4GB definitely reloads less often. However, Safari for iOS seems to be smarter now and actually caches webpages to disk and remembers the position in the page where you left off so tab reloading isn't quite as frustrating as it used to be. Also, it seems a lot of forums have compensated and now auto-save drafts of replies, etc.

I'm not finding a reduction in page reloads on my 12.9 Pro. That's with only 1 tab. I need to do some more testing to have a more accurate picture of the when/why/what of the matter. I also want to compare iOS Safari to my new favorite browser, Brave.

 

[LovingTeddy]

One concern is that if iOS 12 will be "previewed" at WWDC and available few months later, then it means more unpredictable waiting.

https://www.macrumors.com/roundup/ios-12/

One main reason to get the 2018 version is that new iOS versions seem to support only 3-4 years old hardware. If I settle for the 2017 version at this "possibly" almost end of cycle, I lose one year.


Given that I can still return the IPP in June, one way is not to care about any rumors and come back in June. Then, decide what to do. Another way is to just settle with the current iPP 12.9" and never look at any news about iPad until few years later. I have spent way way too much time on this.

At this point, I am no longer cares about software update anymore. After iOS 11 pretty much screws on old iPad mini 4, I have decided to stop update iOS anymore.

I stopped updating first gen iPad mini on iOS 7, iPhone 5S on iOS 9, iPad mini 2nd gen in iOS 10 and downgraded iPad mini 4 to iOS 10. I have 2 iPad 2017, one WiFi and one is ordered LTE version (will get the delivery on Monday), I will see how iOS 12 runs. If performance is acceptable, then I will update, otherwise, I will stay at iOS 11 forever.

At some point, even iOS 13 or 14 will struggle on A10. I will hold my dirt cheap iPad 2017 to that point and then update
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I'm not finding a reduction in page reloads on my 12.9 Pro. That's with only 1 tab. I need to do some more testing to have a more accurate picture of the when/why/what of the matter. I also want to compare iOS Safari to my new favorite browser, Brave.

I don’t find reduction of reloading in general with iPad 10.5 and 12.9 than iPad 9.7. Apps in the background will get killed regardless, even iPad Pro has 4GB RAM...

 

[rui no onna]

I'm not finding a reduction in page reloads on my 12.9 Pro. That's with only 1 tab. I need to do some more testing to have a more accurate picture of the when/why/what of the matter. I also want to compare iOS Safari to my new favorite browser, Brave.

I often have 20+ tabs open on Safari but I don't really switch with apps running in the background. I actually force close background apps because I want more RAM dedicated to Safari.

I've never actually monitored it but I rarely get tab reloads on the 12.9 Pro. On the 9.7 Pro, I'd get them maybe every 30 tabs or so. Not as much of an irritant as it used to be ever since Safari started caching webpages to SSD and given how quickly the 9.7 Pro renders webpages. Most of my tabs are primarily text (forums, etc) with not much media.

 

[cibonak]

IPAd pro 1st generation 12.9 is it A10X?
[doublepost=1522258596][/doublepost]ok it is a9x

 

[temna]

I love Apple, but a joke of an upgrade. Sorry.

Really? It's a standard yearly upgrade. Plus they tossed in Pencil support. What did you want? A folding display?

 

[FeliApple]

Tab reloads is a function of RAM so yes, 4GB definitely reloads less often. However, Safari for iOS seems to be smarter now and actually caches webpages to disk and remembers the position in the page where you left off so tab reloading isn't quite as frustrating as it used to be. Also, it seems a lot of forums have compensated and now auto-save drafts of replies, etc.

Yes, there's still inevitable slowdown but it's taking much longer now compared to before. I used to upgrade iOS devices at least every two years without fail due to performance (or lack thereof). Personally, I didn't find the iPad 2 on iOS 8 to be just lagging moderately. It felt downright unbearable.

Had an Athlon II X4 635, too, but I dunno, the E8400 actually felt more responsive to me. Both were on Windows 7 64-bit with 4GB RAM. Granted, I have very few tasks running in the background. For heavy multitasking, no doubt the Athlon II X3 would have been better. The X4, I got for x264 encoding.

You are right that slowdowns take longer - iPad 2 on iOS 7 was quite worse than iOS 5, and iPod Touch 5G on iOS 7 or 8 was far worse than one on iOS 6, and the iPad 3 fell down on iOS 7 due to the A5X. Now, why are slowdowns inevitable? Apple should pull the plug on iOS updates far earlier. Who cares whether they are 4 instead of 5, (updates I mean) if the iPad will work far better on its last release compared to now. You said the Air 1 was sluggish. Why does it have to be? Apple should have pulled the plug on iOS 10, and done. Or Apple should work better to maintain a decent level of performance in iOS. They can't? Then pull the plug. Now, if people complain that they are supported for too short of a time, then there's nothing Apple can do because people always complain.
Let me go a little bit further. What if you maintain the device on an older iOS and HAVE to restore for whatever reason? Then it's done. If Apple would have pulled the plug earlier, you would still get a decent performer. Now, they push them and update them until they "break" (sorry, not a good analogy but you get the point) and they are far more sluggish.
This is all supposing Apple is reasonable. They are not, evidenced by the inability to downgrade and the annoying prompts to update. All of this to... Brag about iOS adoption numbers.

 

[LovingTeddy]

Really? It's a standard yearly upgrade. Plus they tossed in Pencil support. What did you want? A folding display?

At least upgrade the damn display and upgrade the god dam RAM... 2GB does not cut anymore.

 

[Richard8655]

Now, why are slowdowns inevitable? Apple should pull the plug on iOS updates far earlier. Who cares whether they are 4 instead of 5, (updates I mean) if the iPad will work far better on its last release compared to now. You said the Air 1 was sluggish. Why does it have to be? Apple should have pulled the plug on iOS 10, and done. Or Apple should work better to maintain a decent level of performance in iOS. They can't? Then pull the plug.

Well said. I wish the IOS development teams would install their latest IOS releases on the oldest legacy devices still in the supported range, and be required to use them for a few weeks in everyday operation before green lighting for release. It’s as if no performance metrics are taken into account.

I faithfully kept my iPad 3 updated with the latest supported IOS releases. That strategy basically killed it.

 

[FeliApple]

Apparently the 2GB of RAM are confirmed. Read an Apple Insider article that says Geekbench shows 2GB.
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Well said. I wish the IOS development teams would install their latest IOS releases on legacy devices still in the supported range, and be required to use them for a few weeks in everyday operation before green lighting for release. It’s as if no performance metrics are taken into account.

Maybe they do and if they see it half-works they launch it anyway. Maybe they think one more version working far more poorly is better than no version at all...

 

[joeblow7777]

At least upgrade the damn display and upgrade the god dam RAM... 2GB does not cut anymore.

For you. Given what most people use non-Pro iPads for, I don't think lack of RAM is much of a concern. The vast majority of iOS devices in circulation right now have 2GB or less.

 

[temna]

At least upgrade the damn display and upgrade the god dam RAM... 2GB does not cut anymore.

Considering the cost of upgrading the display, you're really being nit picky for a $300 device.

 

[rui no onna]

Well said. I wish the IOS development teams would install their latest IOS releases on the oldest legacy devices still in the supported range, and be required to use them for a few weeks in everyday operation before green lighting for release. It’s as if no performance metrics are taken into account.

I faithfully kept my iPad 3 updated with the latest supported IOS releases. That strategy basically killed it.

Lol, I stopped updating the iPad 3 at iOS 6. I knew not to update to the latest version if I wanted to maintain performance. I did update one of them all the way to iOS 9 since minimum for HBO Now was iOS 8 (crash city). Surprisingly, I found iOS 9 to be faster and more stable than iOS 8 on the iPad 3, 4 and Air.

But yes, do wish Apple would allow firmware downgrades. It's Apple though and it's pretty much their way or the highway. It's still the best tablet I've used so I've learned to either live with or work around the limitations.

 

[ChrisChaval]

In terms of the iPad Air 2, I think it's fine, but it also feels slower than it used to be. With iOS 11 it's still nice to use, but the lag is starting to appear. Also, while it reloads Safari tabs much less often than 1 GB machines, it still does. A 4 GB machine would likely have even less tab reloads. (At least my iPhone 7 Plus with 3 GB RAM has less tab reloads, but that's not a direct comparison.) I suspect that iOS 12 will still be OK on it, but iOS 12 is probably when it truly starts to show its age.

ios12 is expected to be an under-the-hood overhaul, optimizing performance rather than introducing new features

having said that I would expect any device supporting ios11 to run better, not worse, on ios12

 

[sracer]

ios12 is expected to be an under-the-hood overhaul, optimizing performance rather than introducing new features

having said that I would expect any device supporting ios11 to run better, not worse, on ios12

Although speculation and rumors indicate iOS 12 is going to be an overhaul, it's not. There is not enough time for Apple to do such a thing and test it on the multitude of devices within the timeframe they have. iOS 12 is going to be more of a housekeeping release where code is cleaned up a little and bugs squashed.

The more realistic expectation for iOS 12 should be that it will perform at near the same performance as iOS 11 but with far fewer bugs and glitches.

 

[Jetcat3]

Really? It's a standard yearly upgrade. Plus they tossed in Pencil support. What did you want? A folding display?

No, just wanted a display better than 2013’s iPad Air. 2018 should be WELL past that.

 

[Richard8655]

Lol, I stopped updating the iPad 3 at iOS 6. I knew not to update to the latest version if I wanted to maintain performance. I did update one of them all the way to iOS 9 since minimum for HBO Now was iOS 8 (crash city). Surprisingly, I found iOS 9 to be faster and more stable than iOS 8 on the iPad 3, 4 and Air.

But yes, do wish Apple would allow firmware downgrades. It's Apple though and it's pretty much their way or the highway. It's still the best tablet I've used so I've learned to either live with or work around the limitations.

Yes indeed, those were the days of my naïveté and innocence. I’ve since learned to take a much more skeptical perspective of Apple’s “recommendations and advice”. But I think the situation is somewhat unfair for those who are too busy in their active lives to pay attention to the nuances of IOS upgrades and their potential after effects. Most follow the marching orders, understandably. But it shouldn't have to be this way, as FeliApple points out.

 

[ChrisChaval]

Although speculation and rumors indicate iOS 12 is going to be an overhaul, it's not. There is not enough time for Apple to do such a thing and test it on the multitude of devices within the timeframe they have. iOS 12 is going to be more of a housekeeping release where code is cleaned up a little and bugs squashed.

The more realistic expectation for iOS 12 should be that it will perform at near the same performance as iOS 11 but with far fewer bugs and glitches.

I fear you are right

in the end, ios12 is not supposed to negatively impact sales figures

 

[rui no onna]

No, just wanted a display better than 2013’s iPad Air. 2018 should be WELL past that.

Problem is the price point. I think for the display used in the Air 2, $399 is Apple's minimum MSRP. Just look at the iPad mini 4 with 4-year old chipset.

Honestly, I've yet to find a good Chinese Android tablet able to deliver even 2017 iPad 9.7 features and performance at a similar price point.

 

[FeliApple]

Yes indeed, those were the days of my naïveté and innocence. I’ve since learned to take a much more skeptical perspective of Apple’s “recommendations and advice”. But I think the situation is somewhat unfair for those who are too busy in their active lives to pay attention to the nuances of IOS upgrades and their potential after effects. Most follow the marching orders, understandably. But it shouldn't have to be this way, as FeliApple points out.

There's something that I find rare. Why don't people learn? I mean, I did. I updated an iPad 4 to iOS 7 only to find I hated the design and performance fell massively. What did I do? I learned. I never updated iOS again in any device (just for reference: Pro 9.7, iOS 9; iPad 4, iOS 7; iPod Touch 5G, iOS 6; iPhone 6s, iOS 9; and so on). An Apple user of an iPad 4 updates to iOS 10, finds performance to constantly drop, gets "angry". Goes ahead and buys an iPad Pro 9.7. Updates to iOS 11 and is angry again and complains, only to buy an iPhone 6s and update to iOS 11. Like, don't you learn? iOS updates = drop in performance. (Eventually. The degree that performance drops depends on amount of major updates and Apple's effort to improve performance on older devices.) One thing is to have multiple devices and use some to try, or, in the same page, someone who updated and either:
A: Didn't perceive any issues that were a deal-breaker.
B: Perceives issues, but updates for features anyway.
C: Perceives issues, doesn't care about features, but updates for App compatibility.
Another thing is to update and complain, but then to go ahead and buy a new device and update again.

 

[LovingTeddy]

Considering the cost of upgrading the display, you're really being nit picky for a $300 device.

No.. if Apple want to make a iPad that going to support Apple PenciL, they better put laminated display on that iPad. The noise when you tap the display is lot louder than one with laminated display. If you constantly poking the pen to the display, you will constant hear the noise. Secondly, imagine you are write on a piece of paper and you put a thin glass on top. This iPad is exactly like that.
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For you. Given what most people use non-Pro iPads for, I don't think lack of RAM is much of a concern. The vast majority of iOS devices in circulation right now have 2GB or less.

You kidding me? 2GB is. Not sufficient enough at this stage. Let me show you how many Jetstream event I got on my iPad.

Jetstream event triggers when iPad has low memory. With so many Jetstream events, it clear to me that 2GB is no longer sufficient

 

[hajime]

No.. if Apple want to make a iPad that going to support Apple PenciL, they better put laminated display on that iPad. The noise when you tap the display is lot louder than one with laminated display. If you constantly poking the pen to the display, you will constant hear the noise. Secondly, imagine you are write on a piece of paper and you put a thin glass on top. This iPad is exactly like that.

They will do it in the 2019 or 2020 upgrade! Their strategy is consistent. Even they can use the latest components to make good products, they make something less good on purpose. Then, update later. There are people who upgrade their devices every year.

I am getting fed up with Apple under Tim's management.

 

[LovingTeddy]

They will do it in the 2019 or 2020 upgrade! Their strategy is consistent. Even they can use the latest components to make good products, they make something less good on purpose. Then, update later. There are people who upgrade their devices every year.

I am getting fed up with Apple under Tim's management.

Well.. this is exactly why I skipped this iPad and went ahead ordered the refurbished 128GB 2017 iPad LTE version... it. Is in huge discount right now. Apple is trying to clear the house now.