Your scenario sounds exactly like one of my common crash scenarios - programming on XCode and listening to music in the background. Exactly the same behavior as you described.
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2018 MacBook Pros crashing with "Bridge OS" error
- Thread starter kryptticAZ
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Your scenario sounds exactly like one of my common crash scenarios - programming on XCode and listening to music in the background. Exactly the same behavior as you described.
Hi Plutonius: I received my new 2018 MBP nine days ago. It was a custom order with the Radeon Pro Vega 20, so it was built in the last few weeks. Today I woke up to a message that my MBP restarted overnight, and this is how the logs start out: "{"caused_by":"macos","macos_system_state":"running","bug_type":"210","os_version":"Bridge OS 3.1 (16P2088)", so I presume I'm in the right place here. I only had one peripheral connected (an Envoy Pro EX external 2TB SSD connected via TB3), and the lid was closed.
Reading through posts and linked articles here, and reading your post that I'm replying to, I take it your advice would be to return this MBP while I still can? Should I even try getting another one, or would it also be likely to have this same problem? I've put a lot of hours and money into this one already (I did not use the migration assistant, so I loaded on my software one at a time and I also applied an expensive skin), but I don't want to be stuck with a lemon (especially if there are trouble-free MBPs to be had). Thanks!
Note: I just spoke with my Apple Store with which I placed my order, and they informed me that their extended holiday return period is in effect right now. For all purchases and orders made after 10/26/2018, the return date is 01/08/2019, so I have a cushion.
Please Also Note: The only other issues I have had are that the Envoy Pro EX drive has dismounted several times randomly (a couple of times seemingly in conjunction with FaceTime calls), and after I installed an app from the App Store (but before I tried to run it), my Mac went dark and the fans started blowing very, very had, even though the computer was virtually cold to the touch and had been under no heavy load (had to call Apple support and do an SMC reset for that one).
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It's up to you to decide if you can live with the occasional T2 error.
If not, your choices are to return it or hope that Apple service is able to do something.
Reading the post here, some people had no issues in a new computer after returning / replacing it while others had multiple T2 fault computers in a row. It generally appears to be an intermittent problem and most 2018 MacBook Pros do not seem to be affected.
My recommendation is to return it and get another because I believe it is probably a hardware issue with the T2 that Apple will not entirely correct in software or firmware.
Best of luck whatever you decide.
Hi Plutonius: Thank you for your response. I just spoke to a Tier 2 Senior Tech at Apple Support. They scheduled an appointment to bring it to a local Genius Bar. I will do that, but I am HEAVILY leaning toward replacing it. It really bothers me that Apple has apparently said nothing about this issue and the tech support rep had apparently never heard of it. With all the articles cited in this thread alone, and all of these posts, I think they must be aware of it. I will listed to what the Genius Bar says, but I will likely return it for a replacement as much time and money as that will waste. If a software fix was likely, I'd wait.
BTW: have you done the Photo Booth test? Open PB, switch to video mode and start recording. Let the computer record like 2 hours. Many of us have crashes/KP within this time. If you have this one, I'd return it without talking to the GB guy.
If it goes anything like the Genius Bar appointment that Apple set up for me when mine was KP’ing, they will run a diagnostic and tell you that they can find nothing wrong with your machine, unless you can get it to produce an error while it is there. Then you will take it home and it will KP again, rinse,
You will waste time and money with repeated Genius Bar appointments as well. So you will have to decide when enough is enough and just ask for a replacement
SDColorado: Thank you. Is there any reason to suspect a replacement will be any better?If it goes anything like the Genius Bar appointment that Apple set up for me when mine was KP’ing, they will run a diagnostic and tell you that they can find nothing wrong with your machine, unless you can get it to produce an error while it is there. Then you will take it home and it will KP again, rinse,
You will waste time and money with repeated Genius Bar appointments as well. So you will have to decide when enough is enough and just ask for a replacement
This crash says that the camera <-> T2 connection seems to have a problem. You can also test the camera by recording the camera signal to Quicktime. My second MacBook only seemed to have this camera flaw, everything else was fine. I sent it back for a refund.
Is it acceptable for a 2000 Euro/Dollar++ computer to have a broken camera on arrival? IMHO not. This seems to be a common problem, that's why I mentioned it.
Is it acceptable for a 2000 Euro/Dollar++ computer to have a broken camera on arrival? IMHO not. This seems to be a common problem, that's why I mentioned it.
There are a number of people who have had zero problems. For whatever reason, it seems there are some problem free machines out there and problematic machines out there. Perhaps even the majority of them are problem free. I have been through 4, but only the first one had KP issues.
Of course, you could get on the unlucky end of the spectrum and get 2 or 3 in a row with KP problems, but it isn't likely. If you get one that is problem free, you will be much happier than dealing with the annoyance the one you have is sure to cause.
Based on all the advice I'm getting here, I've decided to return it. One in four sounds good, but may I ask why you are going through so many MBPs?
I think I'll order mine again exactly as it is now. I didn't order the i9 because I didn't want any part of the i9 heat issues (fixing those by allowing it to get hotter doesn't seem like a good idea to me).
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Okay, I see your reasoning. I can tell you that FaceTime calls have caused my bus-powered Envoy Pro EX external SSD drive to dismount unexpectedly at least twice. That could also be camera-related, I guess.
MBP #1: Frequent KP’ing, the first right after initial setup and nothing installed or attached. Screen coating along the top edge of the display was wavy and uneven.
MBP #2: Arrived with a series of sharp nicks along the left hand edge near the speaker. Manufacturing defect, not a shipping one. Apple offered to refund $300 if I wished to keep it, I did not. While the nicks were rather minor, one was sharp and kept catching the material of my shirt.
MBP #3: Keyboard developed several keys that would not always respond to 1st, 2nd even 3rd presses. 8 key was sticky, random run-away thermal issues where it was constantly bouncing off 100c even doing stuff like syncing my phone or checking mail.
MBP #4: No problems to report in 12 days, but decided I didn’t trust it for the long haul. Too many issues with the previous ones, too many other people reporting issues. Some folks still reporting issues after 3 or more returns. Decided to return that one as well. Apple QC isn’t what it once was.
Edit: I take it back on #4. Trackpad would occasionally feel “dead” and non-responsive. It was kind of odd, like the Taptic Engine didn’t always work. But it was infrequent
Wow! Now you're making mine seem great. Do you think there's much chance of Apple finding some sort of fix for existing models (for the Bridge OS/T2 issue this thread is about)?
My hope of that is fading since it has been over a year since “patient zero” the iPad Pro debuted with the T2 chip and it still isn’t fixed.
I had hope the Vega models might also have some update that solved the T2 issues, but that also doesn’t seem to be the case and of course no change to the keyboard.
I am maybe going to hold out for a redesign with Gen 4 butterfail Keyboard and T3 Chip hahaha.
It depend on what is causing the T2 faults.
If it's a software issue, Apple should be able to eventually fix it. If it's a T2 hardware issue, Apple can try to minimize the problems via software / firmware but it's probably impossible to eliminate them completely.
For a hardware fault in the T2, the only sure fix is most likely a redesign of the T2 chip.
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Chances are that it will be fine. Just be sure to heavily use it / test it out to make sure that you get a good unit.
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All that time and the best Apple could come up with was a membrane under the keyboard.
The generation 3 seems to be better than the generation 2 but there are still reports of it failing
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Plutonius: I don't understand. If you think it might be a hardware issue, doesn't that mean the next one I'd get would be similarly affected? I mean, how could it not be if the hardware is bad?
It seems to not affect them all. @maflynn is as good an example as any. He ordered his at release and has had zero issues.
If you plan to try another (and maybe another after that), now is the time to do it whilst you have the holiday return period to give it an extended test drive.
It depend on what is causing the T2 faults.
If it's a software issue, Apple should be able to eventually fix it. If it's a T2 hardware issue, Apple can try to minimize the problems via software / firmware but it's probably impossible to eliminate them completely.
For a hardware fault in the T2, the only sure fix is most likely a redesign of the T2 chip.
[doublepost=1543792004][/doublepost]
Chances are that it will be fine. Just be sure to heavily use it / test it out to make sure that you get a good unit.
[doublepost=1543792270][/doublepost]
All that time and the best Apple could come up with was a membrane under the keyboard.
The generation 3 seems to be better than the generation 2 but there are still reports of it failing
Yeah. Though from my experience, I am not sure it is actually “better.” I gave my wife my 2016 and they keyboard still works flawlessly while myself and others are still having issues with the Gen 3’s. I think it’s like spraying water repellent on cloth. It will work for awhile, but eventually the water still gets through
Im back.
So my original 2.9 i9 x 32gb still rock solid no crashes. A friend loaned me a 13" 2018 to run some data imports on (80gb of mbox imports to Mail) and the thing rebooted 3 hours in. I was booted from a Samsung T5 SSD and transferring the data off another Samsung T5 SSD to avoid affecting my friends data at all but still that should be a fully supported thing to do and should never happen. Sad.
So my original 2.9 i9 x 32gb still rock solid no crashes. A friend loaned me a 13" 2018 to run some data imports on (80gb of mbox imports to Mail) and the thing rebooted 3 hours in. I was booted from a Samsung T5 SSD and transferring the data off another Samsung T5 SSD to avoid affecting my friends data at all but still that should be a fully supported thing to do and should never happen. Sad.
RumorConsumer: So, if I understand you correctly, you have had a 2018 i9 x 32GB for around 4 months with no problems? Is there reason to think the i9 might be less subject to these crashes, or do you think you just happened to get a good MBP like many others have?
I realize the question wasn’t addressed to me, but the i9 models are the only ones I have had. So I would say no. @maflynn has had his since launch and he has the 2.2 model I believe and no issues.
Based on what it does, the T2 chip is extremely complex and you will get some variance from chip to chip.
@SDColorado all good we go way back.
That is correct. Wife's MBP 2.9 i9 bought on day one in Brooklyn and zero issues. I have followed this issue with intense interest.
Here's what I have determined:
The T2 is a new chip with a new language. It integrates with the x86 architecture. John Siracusa even said on a recent episode of Accidental Tech Podcast that you could even consider the intel chip the co-processor on a T2 equipped Mac as opposed to the primary. So they have to talk together. And it combines some relatively old functions and components into one. So these "Bridge OS" KPs, though accurately named, are an umbrella for a plethora of other actual events. So yes, while the chip/SOC seems to have some issues, the intermittency and wide range of circumstances under which they happen suggests to me not necessarily one big problem but perhaps a number of smaller problems *as well as* the same potential for incompatibilities and hardware mismatches that always occur when a new Mac comes out and people try to use their old stuff. And now they all appear to have the same issue. Its entirely possible some of these folks would have resolved their problems with a new wireless router. We don't know. We can just keep submitting that crash report.
Finally, Apple is on this. They must be. They dogfood their stuff meaning people there are using the same hardware and must be having the same issues.
Rumorconsumer hit the nail on the head. A lot of folks seem to be treating this as a single error, because the error message is the same. Sadly, these are all various issues, disguised under one user facing error message, because they involve the T2 chip and the bridge between that and the intel chip. A firmware fix to simply correct a multitude of errors at any given time seems to be an uphill battle, considering Apple probably has to get intel involved for any handshake/handoffs caused by bridging the two chips, multiply that times how many various “calls” there are between both processes.
Having a chip talk to one of their own manufacturered chips is hard enough. Now try that while also dealing with another vendors chip. Now add in a possible hardware defect. Now add in possible software defects. Now you have something that should have been scraped on the workbench before it went into production. Engineering tip - don’t bridge two processors together unless you have the keys to both cars. Engineering tip two - if you do bridge them together and you see issues, stop putting them in mass production in new computers.
I think what is happening is the T2 chip is reacting poorly to variable environment changes - some that speak to 3rd party software or devices - some that happen after sleep, but not always after sleep, etc. Point being, it’s an absolute mess, because it’s a possible defect - but not always reproducible - chip, dealing with a 3rd party chip (intel), while also having various computing tasks tripping it up. It’s not a single issue, it’s hundreds of issues, happening at different times, very little constant.
But, the real truth is most people aren’t replacing their laptops. Apple already made and paid for the chips and is banking on having them in new gear, which is why they continued to put it in. From a sales perspective - it doesn’t hurt them and the returns are probably 1 percent of sales - because the average Joe will simply think “damn, my computer crash, back to Facebook, I hope Facebook doesn’t crash it again”.
Having a chip talk to one of their own manufacturered chips is hard enough. Now try that while also dealing with another vendors chip. Now add in a possible hardware defect. Now add in possible software defects. Now you have something that should have been scraped on the workbench before it went into production. Engineering tip - don’t bridge two processors together unless you have the keys to both cars. Engineering tip two - if you do bridge them together and you see issues, stop putting them in mass production in new computers.
I think what is happening is the T2 chip is reacting poorly to variable environment changes - some that speak to 3rd party software or devices - some that happen after sleep, but not always after sleep, etc. Point being, it’s an absolute mess, because it’s a possible defect - but not always reproducible - chip, dealing with a 3rd party chip (intel), while also having various computing tasks tripping it up. It’s not a single issue, it’s hundreds of issues, happening at different times, very little constant.
But, the real truth is most people aren’t replacing their laptops. Apple already made and paid for the chips and is banking on having them in new gear, which is why they continued to put it in. From a sales perspective - it doesn’t hurt them and the returns are probably 1 percent of sales - because the average Joe will simply think “damn, my computer crash, back to Facebook, I hope Facebook doesn’t crash it again”.
bobdob: A very depressing analysis. It's very reasonable, but very depressing. What do you see the ultimate resolution of this being? Do you think Apple will ultimately fix the issue with software, or even repair or replace affected MacBooks? Or do you think they'll just continue to sell them and act like there is no problem? More importantly, do you agree with others that it seems like many (if not most) MacBook Pros do not and will not experience this issue?