(2019) 16" is HOT & NOISY with an external monitor! :(

[Corncab44]

If you configure to the same specs there is no price benefit in starting with one or the other. But it is impossible to get i9 2.3ghz without 5500m and 1tb, which add up to the same upgrade cost as going from i7 to i9 2.4ghz.

Unless you NEED fast GPU, don't waste money on the 5500m. Reviews have said the 5300m even performs better for gaming (more stable, the 5500m peaks faster but then stutters in some games likely due to heat and/or higher power consumption starving the CPU some).

And if you do NEED fast GPU, just get the 5600m or an eGPU instead.

The 2.4ghz will have better thermals in that it is faster at a given temp (unless you happen to get a "good" 2.3 in the silicon lottery). But it will not run cooler. Even light to medium workloads that don't need to max out all cores to 100% will still boost as fast as possible to execute their tasks. They will just do it quicker.

With an external display the additional 18W dGPU means that even light tasks push up the overall temp to noisy levels.

I think starting with the i7 model and bumping the CPU is the way to go. Sure, you are forced to pay for 2.4ghz which is "only" 100mhz faster, but it's a better binned chip that can run cooler at a given temp/voltage and therefore can run faster.

Whereas starting with the i9 model means you are forced to buy 1tb you might not need and forced to buy a 5500m you almost certainly don't want even if you do need fast GPU.

Hmm. It's a tough call. I don't need the performance of the 2.4ghz i9, and I do want 1tb of storage, which is why I ended up with the higher end model (which made sense to me since I wasn't considering the 2.4 i9, but perhaps I should have). It's about $300 cheaper to upgrade to 32gb and 1tb ssd, but leave the i7 and 5300m. At this point I'm convinced I don't want anything more than the 5300m, so that's settled, and I know I want 32gb and 1tb, but on the processor I'm torn. I do not do heavily processor intensive tasks, more iterative stuff with lots of chrome windows and tabs, light video editing, all of which tax ram more in my experience. So if its between the i7 and i9 2.4... is that really worth 2.8ghz just for better performance when turning off turbo boost or lowering wattage? Such an odd position to be in!
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If you configure to the same specs there is no price benefit in starting with one or the other. But it is impossible to get i9 2.3ghz without 5500m and 1tb, which add up to the same upgrade cost as going from i7 to i9 2.4ghz.

Unless you NEED fast GPU, don't waste money on the 5500m. Reviews have said the 5300m even performs better for gaming (more stable, the 5500m peaks faster but then stutters in some games likely due to heat and/or higher power consumption starving the CPU some).

And if you do NEED fast GPU, just get the 5600m or an eGPU instead.

The 2.4ghz will have better thermals in that it is faster at a given temp (unless you happen to get a "good" 2.3 in the silicon lottery). But it will not run cooler. Even light to medium workloads that don't need to max out all cores to 100% will still boost as fast as possible to execute their tasks. They will just do it quicker.

With an external display the additional 18W dGPU means that even light tasks push up the overall temp to noisy levels.

I think starting with the i7 model and bumping the CPU is the way to go. Sure, you are forced to pay for 2.4ghz which is "only" 100mhz faster, but it's a better binned chip that can run cooler at a given temp/voltage and therefore can run faster.

Whereas starting with the i9 model means you are forced to buy 1tb you might not need and forced to buy a 5500m you almost certainly don't want even if you do need fast GPU.

Thanks for the run down. The reason I referred to the i9 starter as cheaper was because I was already upgrading to 1tb and didn't think I needed to further upgrade the processor.

My thinking was go with the i7 since what I do is more ram intensive than anything else, so it still feels weird to pay nearly $300 more for processing power I likely don't need but may benefit me because we are all under powering our processors or using TBS, and the 2.4ghz performs better under those circumstances. Such an odd position to be in.

As for the 5500m, it was a dumb decision I made because 8gb seemed cool and I didn't know mac thermals were so bad (this is my first mac).

Maybe a use case would be helpful:

4 chrome windows with 50 total tabs, spotify, imovie every hour or so for a 5 minute export, video playing in browsers, word, excel and Evernote running along with slack, with the laptop in clamshell outputting to a 4k monitor. What's my best bet processor wise if I'm trying to keep fans from going nuts? Its really the fastest processor apple offers on this model?

 

[CibbySF]

Do anyone have any tips on how to configure Parallels for a Windows VM (or Windows settings) that would minimize it's drain on resources? I really only use it so I can have the Win version of Excel for work, so don't need much. This is prob best asked another place but since it's relevant to the topic thought someone on here has found some workarounds. Thx!

 

[sainecy]

I register just to write my experience. I read about 20 last pages of this forum and I lost any hope. But I face need to reinstall my MacOS and I decide to try install windows via bootcamp. I installed windows, surf internet, and doesn't notice any of heat issue. But I saw that radeon high side on windows, with connected external monitor always 15 watts with peaks to 18. I tried to install latest amd drivers (but then I notice that this is the same version of drivers), doesn't seen any changes of radeon high side. And than I start to reinstall my macOS. I erase Macintosh HD volume, download and install latest stable 10.15.5. Install my necessary programs and try again connect external display. I connect power and usb-c to HDMI adapter at the same side (left). Before update if I connected both cables to left side, I've got around 3500 rpm, but now, its around 2500, that is really better. Maybe that related to new fresh system, but this is ray of hope.

Drop in the end maybe because of pause video on external monitor.
This chart for using Mac with playing video on YouTube in 1080p on external/internal monitor with browser on another screen and telegram chat opened sometimes. Tomorrow I'll work with Xcode, fork and other stuff that I need to do my work. And add some additional info.

Another that I notice, maybe I'm wrong and just didn't notice it before reinstall. But I don't remember that before install when I connect external monitor, iGPU was still in list of graphic...

So I got an idea that maybe now iGPU using for internal monitor and dGPU for external?

I don't know how heat issue shows in the future, but this looks kind of hopeful.

My setup:

LG 1080p HDMI Monitor
MBP16" 5300M in stock

 

[mrmachine79]

At the end of the day, these chips produce good numbers for marketing but come with significant issues for mobile users, and both Intel and Apple haven’t done much to optimise them for mobile use. This leaves it up to us to use various apps (some of which compromise the security of our devices) to build specific power policies and profiles that best suit our preferences and needs. This might always be the case, but it seems particularly pertinent and necessary for the i9s.

These chips don't just produce good marketing numbers with significant issues for users. I for one an extremely happy with the option of an 8 core i9 in a MacBook Pro. It's FAST in real world usage and I don't think it actually causes any significant problems.

The problem is there design decision to use an AMD chip/driver that uses very high power for low impact work in certain conditions.

The Intel chip even though it does not cause the problem send to be the only thing that can practically do anything at all to mitigate it.

It's like getting a back massage for a stubbed toe. Might improve your general health but does not address the root issue.

4 chrome windows with 50 total tabs, spotify, imovie every hour or so for a 5 minute export, video playing in browsers, word, excel and Evernote running along with slack, with the laptop in clamshell outputting to a 4k monitor. What's my best bet processor wise if I'm trying to keep fans from going nuts? Its really the fastest processor apple offers on this model?

Just save your money and get the i7 with 5300m. If that's still to noisy, user the money saved to buy an eGPU.

 

[Corncab44]

Going to give Voltra a try with my i9. What settings are folks using?

 

[sco]

What do you get if you set it to, say, 45 W, which is the TDP of the chip? For some of us, curtailing the (extreme) short bursts above this amount might be a good compromise. The i9 can temporarily draw 90 W or more I think.

In my load test running at 45W caused the fans to run too loud for my liking. But I was pegging the CPU at 100% using the Intel power gadget. I often run compiles along with a number of VMs so the CPU is often quite high constantly rather than bursting - developer tools often chew a lot of CPU constantly recompiling the code behind the scenes.

Others that are doing more bursty work may find higher limits that suit them. Also expect ambient air temp will have an impact. The warmer it is the lower the wattage limit to avoid loud fans. I'll follow up in a few days once I've got to a setting I'm happy with under normal my normal usage.

I started at 27W this morning and now at 32W and will keep tweaking until I find a happy medium between fan noise and performance. Note that i have a 5600M machine now with the radeon around 9W so those of you with a 5500M with higher Radeon usage may also need lower CPU limits.

 

[Norbert Mikołajczyk]

I register just to write my experience. I read about 20 last pages of this forum and I lost any hope. But I face need to reinstall my MacOS and I decide to try install windows via bootcamp. I installed windows, surf internet, and doesn't notice any of heat issue. But I saw that radeon high side on windows, with connected external monitor always 15 watts with peaks to 18. I tried to install latest amd drivers (but then I notice that this is the same version of drivers), doesn't seen any changes of radeon high side. And than I start to reinstall my macOS. I erase Macintosh HD volume, download and install latest stable 10.15.5. Install my necessary programs and try again connect external display. I connect power and usb-c to HDMI adapter at the same side (left). Before update if I connected both cables to left side, I've got around 3500 rpm, but now, its around 2500, that is really better. Maybe that related to new fresh system, but this is ray of hope.View attachment 933309
Drop in the end maybe because of pause video on external monitor.
This chart for using Mac with playing video on YouTube in 1080p on external/internal monitor with browser on another screen and telegram chat opened sometimes. Tomorrow I'll work with Xcode, fork and other stuff that I need to do my work. And add some additional info.

Another that I notice, maybe I'm wrong and just didn't notice it before reinstall. But I don't remember that before install when I connect external monitor, iGPU was still in list of graphic...View attachment 933311

So I got an idea that maybe now iGPU using for internal monitor and dGPU for external?

I don't know how heat issue shows in the future, but this looks kind of hopeful.

My setup:

LG 1080p HDMI Monitor
MBP16" 5300M in stock

Yeah, that’s very similar to my last observations about experiments with the cables and doing fresh installs. In my case it was worst and I needed to do a TM restore. There is something very strange going on with the MacOS system/drivers. Win vs Mac shows that it’s definitely a driver/system bug. It seems that 5300/5500 in windows uses similar W as new 5600. Apple is well known to update drivers very very rarely and that they are very poor quality and Low performance vs windows drivers. Also the lack of new windows from amd is strange...

 

[Corncab44]

These chips don't just produce good marketing numbers with significant issues for users. I for one an extremely happy with the option of an 8 core i9 in a MacBook Pro. It's FAST in real world usage and I don't think it actually causes any significant problems.

The problem is there design decision to use an AMD chip/driver that uses very high power for low impact work in certain conditions.

The Intel chip even though it does not cause the problem send to be the only thing that can practically do anything at all to mitigate it.

It's like getting a back massage for a stubbed toe. Might improve your general health but does not address the root issue.

I think you're right about this. I've been doing some testing and when the fans ramp up is whenever I play a video in clam shell mode. It's the dGPU, and it's sucking nearly half the total wattage (20w out of 40w or so) while I"m playing youtube... Fans up from 2500 to 3600, and remain around there despite switching off Turbo Boost. I'll try to replicate what I'm doing with the 5300m model I have as well, but it seems like the real issue is you just can't run it with iGPU when plugged into a monitor. This is all Apple's fault.

 

[Norbert Mikołajczyk]

I think you're right about this. I've been doing some testing and when the fans ramp up is whenever I play a video in clam shell mode. It's the dGPU, and it's sucking nearly half the total wattage (20w out of 40w or so) while I"m playing youtube... Fans up from 2500 to 3600, and remain around there despite switching off Turbo Boost. I'll try to replicate what I'm doing with the 5300m model I have as well, but it seems like the real issue is you just can't run it with iGPU when plugged into a monitor. This is all Apple's fault.

Hi, Could you post the link to YouTube? I'll check my stats.
What's your specs and what browser do you use?

 

[Corncab44]

Hi, Could you post the link to YouTube? I'll check my stats.
What's your specs and what browser do you use?

I just loaded a random 1080p YouTube video. Try this, set to various resolutions if you want (it goes up to 4k):

This is on an i9 2.3ghz, 8GB 5500M, with 32GB of Ram.

I was doing this in Firefox. Safari is slightly better (around 14w vs. 18-19) but I can't use Safari for all my work. Weirdly, Chrome seems to be better as well, I'm seeing a draw of between 10-15, closer to 10 more often. Which is only 5w more than the base draw when plugged in.

Would be interesting to see what draw people are getting using different browsers for the same video.

All of this said, the problem is that there is any draw at all. We should be able to turn off the dGPU when plugged into an external monitor.

 

[Norbert Mikołajczyk]

I just loaded a random 1080p YouTube video. Try this, set to various resolutions if you want (it goes up to 4k):

This is on an i9 2.3ghz, 8GB 5500M, with 32GB of Ram.

I was doing this in Firefox. Safari is slightly better (around 14w vs. 18-19) but I can't use Safari for all my work. Weirdly, Chrome seems to be better as well, I'm seeing a draw of between 10-15, closer to 10 more often. Which is only 5w more than the base draw when plugged in.

Would be interesting to see what draw people are getting using different browsers for the same video.

All of this said, the problem is that there is any draw at all. We should be able to turn off the dGPU when plugged into an external monitor.

Done, Safari 1080p, clamshell mode 5500 i9 2,4ghz, silent and cool, dgpu is around ~7W.
If I would lower the refresh rate from 144Mhz to 60Mhz it would be ~5W.
As I understand something different is a problem.
Couple days ago I had problems with Catalina while connecting monitor and establishing good refresh rates.
After couple months Catalina recently showed different, new refresh rates, the refresh rates now are exactly the same as my Mojave cMP with RVII showing.
Older custom resolutions created with SwitchresX stopped working sudenly...
I think something is very wrong with the drivers, profiles or Catalina. It is a mess...

 

[Corncab44]

Did a little test with the other model I have, an i7 2.6ghz with the 5300m.

This is with Chrome and Safari open and a youtube video open in each (one play, one paused), along with Slack and a few other things like Excel and Onenote.

This is a light workload for what I do on a normal day, and fans are at 5,000 in clamshell.

I wonder if the i9 2.4 is actually better with thermals? It's totally unnaceptable, but I'm trying to esablish what processor/graphics card set up is best thermally (ignoring the 5600 for these purposes).

I'll try now with turbo mode off...

 

[Corncab44]

And here's the i7/5300m with turbo boost switched off. Albeit I'm running one video in Chrome and one in Safari but this isn't out of the ordinary for my daily workload, and it's something that shouldn't really even require a graphics card, yet here we are. God forbid I try this with the laptop screen open and not in clam shell.

Not sure if the lower end set up (i7/5300m) is any better thermally tbh.

 

[Norbert Mikołajczyk]

And here's the i7/5300m with turbo boost switched off. Albeit I'm running one video in Chrome and one in Safari but this isn't out of the ordinary for my daily workload, and it's something that shouldn't really even require a graphics card, yet here we are. God forbid I try this with the laptop screen open and not in clam shell.

Not sure if the lower end set up (i7/5300m) is any better thermally tbh.

That looks bad, what are your options to connect your external monitor?

 

[Corncab44]

That looks bad, what are your options to connect your external monitor?

It's connected to a USB-c to MDP adaptor, which is connected to a mdp-hdmi cable that's plugged into the back of my Dell 4k monitor. A bit convoluted but it works fine, I doubt that has to do with it. I could buy a single usb c to hdmi/mdp cable I guess.

 

[Norbert Mikołajczyk]

It's connected to a USB-c to MDP adaptor, which is connected to a mdp-hdmi cable that's plugged into the back of my Dell 4k monitor. A bit convoluted but it works fine, I doubt that has to do with it. I could buy a single usb c to hdmi/mdp cable I guess.

Try this one: https://www.apple.com/shop/product/HKQ22ZM/A/belkin-usb-c-to-hdmi-adapter
It would be simper, cleaner and it worked for me.
Use good quality HDMI Cable, maybe you received one with your monitor.
You can always return it and send it back.

 

[Kat17man]

I received a base 16" today and am disappointed because it get's as hot as my 2017 with an external 4K monitor.

Is your reported temp C or F? As I write this with my MBA (2013) on my lap, it feels warm on my legs. Coconut reports my battery temp at 33 C or 91 F. Don't know how much hotter the bottom surface of the computer is, but it's borderline uncomfortable.

 

[Corncab44]

Try this one: https://www.apple.com/shop/product/HKQ22ZM/A/belkin-usb-c-to-hdmi-adapter
It would be simper, cleaner and it worked for me.
Use good quality HDMI Cable, maybe you received one with your monitor.
You can always return it and send it back.

That seems extremely expensive. I've just been using Anker/Amazon Basics. It looks and functions fine. I somehow doubt this will help?

 

[Grohowiak]

It's connected to a USB-c to MDP adaptor, which is connected to a mdp-hdmi cable that's plugged into the back of my Dell 4k monitor. A bit convoluted but it works fine, I doubt that has to do with it. I could buy a single usb c to hdmi/mdp cable I guess.

That radeon is drawing 23w at some point.
I would find better way to connect it or set up in SwitchResX.
I used my dell with USB-C - DP and got good results with SwitchResX

***

On a side note the only thing that really worries me about running in clam shell is that the bottom part of the screen is very close to that super hot keyboard surface.
I wonder how it will mess the screens in the long run.

 

[Corncab44]

That radeon is drawing 23w at some point.
I would find better way to connect it or set up in SwitchResX.
I used my dell with USB-C - DP and got good results with SwitchResX

***

On a side note the only thing that really worries me about running in clam shell is that the bottom part of the screen is very close to that super hot keyboard surface.
I wonder how it will mess the screens in the long run.

What do you mean "set it up on SwitchResX." I often use SwitchResX if I want more space, though I find the default Mac highest res scaling tolerable on the 4k.

I could pick up a USB-C - DP, been meaning to anyway so I can have a simpler connection. What brand do you use? I could also do USB-C to HDMI, I assume Display Port is better? There are sockets for both in the back of my monitor, which is a Dell P2415Q. I could bite the bullet and get a Belkin USB-C to DP: https://www.amazon.com/Belkin-Usb-C-DisplayPort-Cable-1-8M/dp/B07XBZLKSD/

As for the draw... it largely seems a function of what I'm doing. There is some variation between browsers and websites, but it fires up when I'm doing something involving video. And the baseline, with no video running, is about 5-6w, which is in line with what other people have reported. Are you saying a better connection would cut down on the draw?

Good question about the screen... I hadn't thought of that but it can't be good in the long term.

EDIT: I should add that the reason I have it in clamshell is that both the models i'm testing (i7 with 5300m and i9 2.3 with 5500m 8gb draw see the dGPU draw 20 watts while idling when the screen is open and the laptop is connected to a 4k monitor. Playing a video on Youtube doesnt raise it hugely from that but it's such a high baseline to begin with.

 

[mrmachine79]

What do you mean "set it up on SwitchResX." I often use SwitchResX if I want more space, though I find the default Mac highest res scaling tolerable on the 4k.

I could pick up a USB-C - DP, been meaning to anyway so I can have a simpler connection. What brand do you use? I could also do USB-C to HDMI, I assume Display Port is better? There are sockets for both in the back of my monitor, which is a Dell P2415Q. I could bite the bullet and get a Belkin USB-C to DP: https://www.amazon.com/Belkin-Usb-C-DisplayPort-Cable-1-8M/dp/B07XBZLKSD/

As for the draw... it largely seems a function of what I'm doing. There is some variation between browsers and websites, but it fires up when I'm doing something involving video. And the baseline, with no video running, is about 5-6w, which is in line with what other people have reported. Are you saying a better connection would cut down on the draw?

Good question about the screen... I hadn't thought of that but it can't be good in the long term.

I know it sounds dumb, but to trigger some dGPU activity and monitor resulting power draw and fan speed, try and trigger the three finger Mission control animation repetitively. This plus a YouTube video in Safari was enough to bring my old 15" (which had worse cooling but also less dGPU power draw and a 560x dGPU) to a literal crawl. The Mission control animation would visibly slow down dramatically and stutter and I'd see 1000% kernel task in activity monitor while the system tried to reduce heat any way possible. I think the 16 inch is much better than the 15 inch but it's the same root issue just slightly different severity. Since I have an eGPU now I only tested for the same behaviour on the 16 inch briefly.

 

[Corncab44]

I know it sounds dumb, but to trigger some dGPU activity and monitor resulting power draw and fan speed, try and trigger the three finger Mission control animation repetitively. This plus a YouTube video in Safari was enough to bring my old 15" (which had worse cooling but also less dGPU power draw and a 560x dGPU) to a literal crawl. The Mission control animation would visibly slow down dramatically and stutter and I'd see 1000% kernel task in activity monitor while the system tried to reduce heat any way possible. I think the 16 inch is much better than the 15 inch but it's the same root issue just slightly different severity. Since I have an eGPU now I only tested for the same behaviour on the 16 inch briefly.

More adventures. This time on my i9 2.3ghz with 5500m. Plugged into Dell monitor, clamshell, left a 1080p video playing in Firefox when I went out. Turbo Boost was off the entire time. LOL.

To be fair it kept it under 65 celcius the whole time, which I guess is good.

 

[jaduffy007]

Is your reported temp C or F? As I write this with my MBA (2013) on my lap, it feels warm on my legs. Coconut reports my battery temp at 33 C or 91 F. Don't know how much hotter the bottom surface of the computer is, but it's borderline uncomfortable.

33C??? I will LOVE to get 45C on my lap. I'm at 54C right now as I type. I have to put a small box under my 16" on my lap or manually run my fans at 3200.

 

[mrmachine79]

33C??? I will LOVE to get 45C on my lap. I'm at 54C right now as I type. I have to put a small box under my 16" on my lap or manually run my fans at 3200.

He said battery temp. I hope your battery is not 54c?

 

[WilliamG]

Just got my i9 MacBook Pro (standard config - 1TB, 16GB). MAN is this thing noisy connected to the LG 27" 5K monitor. Forget using it with the laptop display open - it's a hair dryer. And even in clamshell mode just watching some MLS on Fox Sports, fan is rapidly approaching 4,000 rpm, with the Radeon around 17W usage, which is insane.

What is going on here? Even my 2014 27" iMac, which this replaces - had no issue with just watching a streaming video without burning up.