(2019) 16" is HOT & NOISY with an external monitor! :(

[IceStormNG]

2019 MBP is thicker and has beefier cooling than the previous one.

The 16“ is exactly as thick as the rMBPs from 2012-2015. They also had to make it thicker because of the „Magic Keyboard“.

But still. Too many flaws for an expensive „Pro“ Machine.

 

[theSeb]

The 16“ is exactly as thick as the rMBPs from 2012-2015. They also had to make it thicker because of the „Magic Keyboard“.

But still. Too many flaws for an expensive „Pro“ Machine.

No, it’s not.

2015 = 1.8 cm thick
2018 MacBook Pro = 1.55 cm thick
2019 MacBook Pro = 1.62 cm thick

So the 2019 model reversed the trend of getting thinner.

I said that it’s thicker than the previous one in response to this

They're too much obsessed with thinness and design over function that it will not get any better.

So it looks like they did think about function over design in the 2019 model and made it thicker. People were complainin about ran noise on this forum in 2012. They are still complaining now. Nothing ever changes

 

[thedocbwarren]

Maybe it's all the beef in this laptop clogging it up.

Seriously as before this is a powerful laptop with a good GPU. Given the two it can only go so far if you push it. The defect of the external monitor is a dGPU thing that is a known hardware design choice.

2019 MBP is thicker and has beefier cooling than the previous one.

 

[supaninjax]

The 16“ is exactly as thick as the rMBPs from 2012-2015. They also had to make it thicker because of the „Magic Keyboard“.

But still. Too many flaws for an expensive „Pro“ Machine.

I'm about to perform surgery on my Mac. I have the 1.5mm pads. How thick do I need to stack them? Do they have to touch the outer case?

 

[ght56]

Hey,
I went through a few of the last pages but didn't have time to read everything

I have the 16-inch with i9, 32Gb of RAM and the Radeon 5500M which doesn't really work with my 2 LG 5K Ultrafine displays.

Does the 5600M would solve the issue? or at least improve it a bit?

Thanks

It will definitely improve it a lot, but that is also pushing a LOT of pixels. Your performance will not be nearly as badly degraded as it is with the 5500M (you'll get wayyyyy better CPU and GPU performance), but you may still have some level of fan noise when you are doing activities that are more graphics/UI-intensive. Given it is a vastly superior GPU to the 5500M in both the efficiency and performance sense, I highly recommend it. That said, if you are still aren't satisfied, a eGPU may be worth consideration.

My technician/rep acknowledged they’ve had a few come back with this issue. Sent it in and 4 days later my MBP returned to me w/ a new logic board. ...which tells me they have no idea about whats going on. I’m giving this one to my mom, who will never use an ext monitor anyway. Prob sell off the other one. Guess I’ll stick to sitting at a desk in front of an iMac.

If you get the right person, depending how long you have had the system, they might let you return it for a 5600M version, if that is of interest.

 

[antoinebell]

It will definitely improve it a lot, but that is also pushing a LOT of pixels. Your performance will not be nearly as badly degraded as it is with the 5500M (you'll get wayyyyy better CPU and GPU performance), but you may still have some level of fan noise when you are doing activities that are more graphics/UI-intensive. Given it is a vastly superior GPU to the 5500M in both the efficiency and performance sense, I highly recommend it. That said, if you are still aren't satisfied, a eGPU may be worth consideration.

Thanks! yep if CPU and GPU is way better that's the most important. From what I understood fan noise will always be there for any config.

I think no eGPU support 2 5k displays via Thunderbolt and I don't want to buy two more eGPUs ?

 

[K3it4r0]

I did the thermal pad mod myself and it does fix the high fan speed mostly. But it's like putting a band-aid onto a cut throat. For it to work perfectly, the machine has to be vertically or on a cooling stand that allows more air onto the bottom plate.


I did the mod mostly because of the VRM throttle, as I gave up using this machine with external monitors. I do most of my work on my Windows Desktop PC now. The 16" has so many flaws that I'm thinking about to leave the Mac universe. Windows machines also have flaws, but they're not that expensive. Luckily, 90% of my work can be done on Windows, too.

The next time I will not buy any high performance notebook again from Apple. They're too much obsessed with thinness and design over function that it will not get any better.

Just look at all the machines from 2016 to now.

Totally understand. I was looking at something where I can install linux and be happy with it. I was postponing the decision, hoping to fix this laptop for now...but I do not know what to do anymore except selling it or buy an egpu which is gonna take tons of desk space for nothing..

 

[ThatOneAwkwardGuy]

Just to check something, could someone running Catalina 10.15.7 check the system information of their Radeon 5500M GPU?

Nvm... :/

 

[ght56]

Thanks! yep if CPU and GPU is way better that's the most important. From what I understood fan noise will always be there for any config.

I think no eGPU support 2 5k displays via Thunderbolt and I don't want to buy two more eGPUs ?

In that case I think you should pull the trigger on a 5600M unit. I am guessing you are a bit disappointed and frustrated with your 5500M model (at least as I was...the more I kept using it the more it bothered me). The 5600M delivers and I am now delighted with the 16-inch MacBook Pro.

 

[jc_9]

I would wait for the November event before pulling the trigger ..!

 

[coach_ditka]

I ordered one from Costco last week, they had a sale on the base I7 whereby it was $100 off Apple's price and in addition, you get a Costco gift card for 15% of the value, so the net was $1950 including super-high local sales tax.

Edit: Planning to use it lid open, with two Dell P2217's @ 1680x1050. It will be elevated off the desk on a vented metal laptop stand. Currently have this setup on my 2015 rMBP with Radeon M370X.

 

[Ebarella]

Is a DisplayLink cable a good workaround for ocassional use?

I will need to update from my ever reliable Late-2013 15" soon and while I hate many things about the current state of Macbooks, I need one to keep programming in iOS, plus absolutely need windows access at work, so unless something surprising happens next month I will buy the last Intel refresh

I hate using multiple monitors, don't know why but I do. I'm happy using the laptop as a laptop. But once in a while I need to connect the computer at work and I don't want to be the guy with the computer with fans that never shut off

 

[jc_9]

For occasional use yeah, but DisplayLink has downsides.
- It uses CPU instead of dGPU so you might need to limit it with Turbo Boost Switcher to avoid excessive noise / heat.
- Your display will run one frame late but you might not feel it.
- The mouse can stutter / refresh slower if you are playing a full screen video

What bother me the most is paying for a dGPU that we are trying to avoid using. Same with the Turbo Boost feature of the CPU.

 

[Hollycene]

For occasional use yeah, but DisplayLink has downsides.
- It uses CPU instead of dGPU so you might need to limit it with Turbo Boost Switcher to avoid excessive noise / heat.
- Your display will run one frame late but you might not feel it.
- The mouse can stutter / refresh slower if you are playing a full screen video

So Does it mean that DisplayLink will solve the issue with high dGPU Wattage with lid open? I haven't tried one so I'm asking.

 

[thedocbwarren]

In all honesty if you don't need it, you don't want the 16. Should go with the 13.

For occasional use yeah, but DisplayLink has downsides.
- It uses CPU instead of dGPU so you might need to limit it with Turbo Boost Switcher to avoid excessive noise / heat.
- Your display will run one frame late but you might not feel it.
- The mouse can stutter / refresh slower if you are playing a full screen video

What bother me the most is paying for a dGPU that we are trying to avoid using. Same with the Turbo Boost feature of the CPU.

 

[coach_ditka]

I ordered mine mainly for the screen size. I need to look at a lot of architectural plans and there's no substitute for size.

 

[ght56]

Is a DisplayLink cable a good workaround for ocassional use?

I will need to update from my ever reliable Late-2013 15" soon and while I hate many things about the current state of Macbooks, I need one to keep programming in iOS, plus absolutely need windows access at work, so unless something surprising happens next month I will buy the last Intel refresh

I hate using multiple monitors, don't know why but I do. I'm happy using the laptop as a laptop. But once in a while I need to connect the computer at work and I don't want to be the guy with the computer with fans that never shut off

Are you going to use the external display with the clamshell on the laptop open, or are you going to use it in clamshell mode with the display closed? Do you know what resolution/refresh rate the display you use is?

DisplayLink experiences are very mixed. I think in your situation just using the (5300M/5500M) dGPU will probably be fine if you are only doing this once in a blue moon and especially if you are using a single display with the clamshell closed. The exception might be if you are presenting/working in an extremely quiet room and you are using a display configuration that draws the 20 watts AND are doing something to push the CPU/GPU modestly, in which case the fans will likely be extremely audible.

That said, if your company will pay it/you are paying and plan to keep this for a really long time (or if you are in a situation where you can claim it!), you could get one with the 5600M GPU, which fixes the issue and IMHO makes the 16-inch MacBook Pro a much better system overall (unless someone only ever uses the iGPU of course!)

 

[jc_9]

In all honesty if you don't need it, you don't want the 16. Should go with the 13.

I returned the 16" and am waiting for the November event. I find the 13" too small while working away from my desk.

So Does it mean that DisplayLink will solve the issue with high dGPU Wattage with lid open? I haven't tried one so I'm asking.

Probably, it depends what resolution / refresh rate you are using it with.

 

[richinaus]

No, it’s not.

2015 = 1.8 cm thick
2018 MacBook Pro = 1.55 cm thick
2019 MacBook Pro = 1.62 cm thick

So the 2019 model reversed the trend of getting thinner.

I said that it’s thicker than the previous one in response to this



So it looks like they did think about function over design in the 2019 model and made it thicker. People were complainin about ran noise on this forum in 2012. They are still complaining now. Nothing ever changes

Yep they havent changed in terms of noise. I think it is wishful thinking that it may change on each new iteration [it is on my behalf anyway]./

However I have 100% learnt my lesson on all this. Never buy a thin laptop for any reasonably heavy work. Whoever says they are fine and whisper quiet are not pushing their computer.

I could hear the fans on my 16” yesterday in another room with the door shut.

 

[mrmachine79]

I finally got my Mantiz MZ-03 Saturn Pro to replace my Razer Core X Chroma (which died after 4 months of use).

Mantiz Saturn Pro Review - King of the Ring - eGPU.io

Priced to be the most affordable full-featured eGPU enclosure on the market, the Mantiz Saturn Pro delivers a knockout punch in performance and value. It showcases the best of the four-year evolution of Thunderbolt 3 eGPU technology. With a unique combination of good looks, unrivaled expansion...

egpu.io

I actually got two. The first one was DOA, and Mantiz support was excellent and they very quickly sent me a replacement, before even having shipped the first one back. The second one is working fine.

The pros compared to the Razer Core X Chroma are:

- It is $100 USD cheaper on Amazon or $70 USD cheaper directly from Mantiz.
- It has a 120mm PSU fan (up from 80mm for the Razer).
- Its PSU fan is only on when the PSU ambient temp hits ~55c (IIRC). Otherwise, it is completely OFF. Razer PSU fan is ALWAYS on.
- It has 3x front and 2x rear USB ports (up from just 4x rear for the Razer).
- It has 1x front SD card reader.
- It has 1x internal 2.5" SSD mounting bracket and a SATA port on the internal motherboard.
- It has 1x 4-pin molex, 1x SATA, and 3x PCI-e power cables (up from just 2x internal PCI-e for the Razer).
- It has 2x 4-pin PWM fan headers on the motherboard (up from 1x for the Razer).
- Its PSU is 750W (up from 700W on the Razer), with 550W to the GPU (up from 500W on the Razer).
- Its PSU is easier to remove and replace. You only have to remove the graphics card and 4 easily accessible screws from the back. Any replacement ATX PSU should fit. On the Razer, you have to disassemble nearly the whole thing, and the PSU is inset from the back (behind some additional mesh) with a non-standard switch, so it will be more difficult to completely replace the PSU.
- It has been reported (backed up with test results) that the gigabit ethernet is stable. Several people reported that the Razer Core X Chroma ethernet was unusable on macOS. I have no personal experience with either. See: Link 1, Link 2

The cons compared to the Razer Core X Chroma are:

- It has no RGB (or in fact any) lighting when powered.
- Its internal cable management is not quite as nice as the Razer, primarily because you get additional molex, SATA and PCI-e cables, and have front USB ports and SD card reader.
- Its internal PSU fan has some goop over its connector to the PSU board, so it is not as easy to disconnect and reconnect if you want to replace the PSU fan and keep your warranty intact.

General observations (neither pro nor con):

- Its access method is basically the same. An internal chassis slides in/out smoothly on a Teflon base. Mantiz has a thumb screw and Razer has a lever/handle.
- Its look and build quality are very similar and very nice. I personally slightly prefer the look of the Razer Core X Chroma front grill and flat black vs the Mantiz front grill and brushed aluminium texture. I personally slightly prefer the feel of the lever and sliding action vs the Mantiz thumb screw.

About noise levels:

- My Sapphire Pulse RX 5500 XT fans are completely OFF 90% of the time, so I am only discussing noise levels from the PWM case fan and start/stop PSU fan.
- The PWM case fan is very quiet. about 30dB from 2 feet according to my iPhone. I replaced it with a Noctua NF-A12x25 FLX anyway, because I had one spare. At its lowest speed, the Noctua fan is about 26dB at the same distance.
- The start/stop PSU fan is completely OFF most of the time. BUT when it is on, it is making a strange sound. It sounds like a manufacturing defect. I have contacted Mantiz support and am awaiting their response.
- One other user reported a strange noise from their PSU fan after 3 months. They were sent a replacement PSU which also had the same problem. They replaced the PSU fan with a Noctua NF-A12x15. See: Link 3

About eGPUs in general:

- I've previously written a detailed post with screenshots to illustrate fan speeds and sustained CPU frequency under real-world sustained high and extreme load. See: Link 4
- An eGPU is cheaper than the 5600m BTO option, can be upgraded, used with a future computer, or sold.
- An eGPU will allow your CPU to perform at the highest possible level. Typically +500MHz under sustained extreme high load. I can typically sustain ~4GHz with minimal fan noise under heavy usage (not all cores, momentary peaks just under 3,000 RPM) or 3.75GHz under extreme heavy load (all cores, near max fan speeds).
- An eGPU will allow you to run GPU intensive tasks with absolutely ZERO impact on CPU performance.
- An eGPU should prevent VRM throttling (CPU drops below base frequency, as low as 800MHz, and kernel_task process uses 1000% plus CPU), or the need for VRM thermal pad mods.
- An eGPU will be annoying if you frequently like to "unplug and run". You first need to "disconnect" the eGPU via menu bar icon, and this will quit/relaunch apps that were using the eGPU. You can reduce the number of apps that need to quit by allowing macOS to keep using your dGPU to render apps, and only use the eGPU to drive the display.

My verdict:

An eGPU is the best and cheapest way to get maximum CPU and GPU performance and resolve the internal MBP heat and fan noise issues, with some minor annoyances, IF you do not need to connect to external displays on the go (e.g. at home and at work, at client offices, etc.)

I highly recommend an eGPU if MBP heat and noise is annoying you, and you work mostly at one desk with one or more external displays. And I highly recommend the Mantiz MZ-03 Saturn Pro eGPU. The features are among the best available AND the price is among the cheapest available. There have been issues, but support has been excellent. The enclosure itself will be easier to work with if you do want to replace the PSU or the PSU fan.

 

[dingobiatch]

How do you specify the eGPU to be used w/ display only and not apps? Can you select specific apps to use the eGPU vs dGPU?

And you do find the noise of the eGPU+card is less than the MBP fans without the eGPU?

 

[mrmachine79]

How do you specify the eGPU to be used w/ display only and not apps? Can you select specific apps to use the eGPU vs dGPU?

And you do find the noise of the eGPU+card is less than the MBP fans without the eGPU?

You can't specify that the eGPU is only used to drive the display. You can only avoid specifying that apps should use the eGPU (and therefore, they should use the dGPU by default).

You can only specify that some apps DO prefer eGPU, or you can set an external display (attached to the eGPU) as "default"

So you can either:

• Just connect the eGPU and let macOS decide how to use it. This is what I do. The internal display remains the default and the dGPU remains the default for newly launched apps. The dGPU will still generate heat and use power, but only ~5W (not ~20W). The MBP (heat and noise) will behave as if you have no external display. Some apps will still use the eGPU and quit on disconnect, but most will use the dGPU. You can optionally specify that individual apps that need a faster GPU should always prefer the eGPU via "Get Info" (CMD-I) on the app icon in Finder.
• Connect the eGPU, but forcibly and completely disable the dGPU via `sudo pmset -a gpuswitch 0` (undo with `sudo pmset -a gpuswitch 2`). This behaves just like above, but the iGPU will be used by default instead of the dGPU so you will save another ~5W. But the iGPU is pretty weak, and any GPU intensive tasks will be slow and can still ramp up the fans.
• Connect the eGPU and set an external display as default (drag the white menu bar in system preferences > displays > arrangement). The GPU that drives the "default" display is used as the default GPU for newly launched apps. So all newly launched apps (after connecting the eGPU) should default to the eGPU. You might as well disable the dGPU as well to save ~5W because most of your apps will be using the eGPU. This is the best performance, but the most annoying because most of your apps will quit when you disconnect the eGPU.

The noise of the MBP when used with an eGPU is the same as when used with only the internal display with the 1st option above. Or even better, with the 2nd and 3rd options. The 2nd option can still ramp up speeds if you try to run GPU intensive tasks on the iGPU. For light to medium workloads, MBP fans are typically locked at the minimum speed all day long. I only see higher fan speeds when the CPU is under sustained high load (compiling).

You also have the noise generated by the eGPU itself, which in my experience is MUCH less than the MBP with dGPU driving an external display, even with stock fans in both Razer Core X Chroma and Mantiz MZ-03 Saturn Pro. If you replace the stock fans, it is basically inaudible 90% of the time.

My Sapphire Pulse RX 5500 XT fans are completely off 90% of the time. The Mantiz PSU fan is completely off at least 50% of the time. The Mantiz PWM case fan is always on but is very quiet at low to medium load. Replacing the Mantiz PSU and/or case fan with Noctua fans should make it basically inaudible.

You also get 100W PD (the 16" MBP can use ~110W, and most docks and USB-C/TB3 monitors only provide 60W or 87W) and a single cable docking solution.

 

[ateslik]

In that case I think you should pull the trigger on a 5600M unit. I am guessing you are a bit disappointed and frustrated with your 5500M model (at least as I was...the more I kept using it the more it bothered me). The 5600M delivers and I am now delighted with the 16-inch MacBook Pro.

same here. The 5600M is a lot better than my 5500M was, and the fans only come on under heavy loads, which is okay and expected.

 

[theSeb]

Yep they havent changed in terms of noise. I think it is wishful thinking that it may change on each new iteration [it is on my behalf anyway]./

However I have 100% learnt my lesson on all this. Never buy a thin laptop for any reasonably heavy work. Whoever says they are fine and whisper quiet are not pushing their computer.

I could hear the fans on my 16” yesterday in another room with the door shut.

My 2012 rMBP is about 4 metres away from me right now making a huge racket because Xcode is updating ?

 

[coach_ditka]

My new 16" i7/5300 arrived last night.

It's hooked up to 2 1680x1050 monitors through a Dell WD19TB dock, just one cable on the right side of the laptop.

One monitor is hooked up via displayport from the dock, and the other via the TTB-3 port on the dock through HDMI.

While I was loading applications, syncing onedrive and outlook, CPU was ~80 degrees, fans were audible at 2500-3000 RPM, but the machine was much faster than my 2015 15".

Following the conclusion of that, it is running pretty much silently. CPU/GPU each at 59 degrees, both fans under 2000 RPM.

I'm running Outlook, Firefox with about 5 tabs, Chrome with 3 tabs, 3 Word docs, one Excel spreadsheet, OneNote, Teams, Slack, iMessage, Bluebeam Revu, Amazon Music, task manager, and some preview windows.

I'd say for me it works great, we'll see if it stays that way. I don't intend to purchase iStat Menu, so all I have is Fanny. Subjectively, the computer feels no warmer than my 2015 15" did.

I did order a new USB-C to DisplayPort cable to replace the HDMI one as its a little flaky when waking from sleep.

I guess my workload is a bit lighter than most who are having trouble. As I said before, I selected this laptop for t he screen size mostly.