(2019) 16" is HOT & NOISY with an external monitor! :(

[GMNestor]

I have a 2017 MBP with radeon 560. Overall, great machine. For office work I learned to appreciate MacOS, the touchpad and the screen.

Hooked it up to my 27" 1440p [144hz] LG through HDMI (through a double-usb dock). It went hot. Fiddled with mirroring or not, no avail. It's not very loud, but I could hear the hum through my over ear headphones playing music and child playing next room, so..

Activity monitor shows very little CPU activity, and some SIRIxxxxx process eating about 20% GPU. I'm on the latest Catalina update.

Needless to say, this is ridiculous.

This is not my first macbook. The first one was 2015 with intel iris, which sat hooked (and open!) to an external FullHD display and never got warm.

Last two jobs i also had:
1. HP Elitebook 830, filled with bank/corporate crapware, yet hooking it to a display never was a problem.
2. Lenovo E14 with Intel 630, which runs its display AND my external LG without breaking a sweat.

I've read through a couple of pages of this thread. People seem to be thinking that displaying 4k picture is some kind of state of the art, and running two such displays is an unimaginable feat for hardware. People are suggesting buying eGPUs to cope with that.
5 year old macbook with integrated graphics could do that, cold.
Crap-tier business laptops with windows onboard don't even notice that you hooked up an external display.

Yet, people here suggest to be buying more expensive mac models and egpus to do something as basic as displaying a picture.

Apple has botched something and they need to fix it. Recent macbooks are the first laptops ever to start sweating because of external displays. You can go into denial as much as you want, but this is not a problem with computers 10mm thicker, with much worse hardware, a windows OS [linux works too] and 1/3rd of a price tag.

Justifying this is some kind of Stockholm syndrome. I like my MBP, but i'm ready to admit that this is simply **** quality (besides, my battery is at 73% health after 200 cycles, key can get stuck and they leave marks on the screen).

 

[uptaker]

So, after several trials and disappointments, I went ahead and did the Thermal Pad mod.

At first, this really reduced overall fan speed from ~3500 to around ˜2000.
But after some minutes of use, I soon found the caveat: you can't fool the law of physics - the heat must go somewhere ?

The bottom chassis was getting extremely hot, to a point that, under heavier loads, I could touch it for more than 5 seconds. Really risky. I was resting the MacBook over a cooling pad but it almost didn't change anything.
The heat was also spreading over the rest of the top case. The touch bar was much hotter than usual.
This leads me to believe that after using it like this for too long, it can certainly cause other problems to your machine. You fix a problem, you cause others.
Maybe I didn't do it correctly, who knows... but it certainly is not an easy solution, and certainly not for everyone.

I decided to undo the change.
After removing the pads, it left some remaining 'blue scrambles'. I had to clean it with isopropyl alcohol.
And when trying to clean the left TB sensor with alcohol as well, it removed parts of the black tint of the sticker.

I feel like I lost the warranty on the machine. If one day I have to send it to repair, they will be able to see the machine was opened, and it won't be a surprise if they refuse to fix it. I really regret having done that.

Using clamshell mode is not an option, at least for me. This would put the camera and speakers to no use. And I do zoom meetings every single day. And I would lose a (finally) good keyboard, the nice touch id, and an awesome screen (that's why we bought a 16" right?). Unfortunately, I have to stick with Apple (iOS developer).

As others have said here, much worse notebooks can power an external display with ease. Apple screwed up on this one.

I gave up.
Will probably buy a noise-canceling headphone and live with the machine until the next (ARM?) release.

 

[chasank]

I am about to buy an external monitor (Dell Ultrasharp U2720Q) to use with my MBP 16-inch, 2019 model. (AMD Radeon Pro 5500M 4GB)

Has anyone had experience using the Dell monitor (U2720Q) with macbook pro? Any suggestions?

I am not planning to use it with clamshell mode as I don't want to buy external keyboard and trackpad or mouse.

I had tried to use my macbook pro with an old FHD monitor and faced the same issues everyone complaining here which also ironically Mid-2012 model handles this perfectly.

And I wonder if this bug is going to be resolved with OS (BigSur) or any firmware update since I saw the following article that claims Bigsur Beta 6 solves this problem. Can anyone confirm that?

https://medium.com/@marlonalagoda/h...s-when-using-an-external-monitor-fea22ab1de72

 

[Artemis777]

I am about to buy an external monitor (Dell Ultrasharp U2720Q) to use with my MBP 16-inch, 2019 model. (AMD Radeon Pro 5500M 4GB)

Has anyone had experience using the Dell monitor (U2720Q) with macbook pro? Any suggestions?

I am not planning to use it with clamshell mode as I don't want to buy external keyboard and trackpad or mouse.

I had tried to use my macbook pro with an old FHD monitor and faced the same issues everyone complaining here which also ironically Mid-2012 model handles this perfectly.

And I wonder if this bug is going to be resolved with OS (BigSur) or any firmware update since I saw the following article that claims Bigsur Beta 6 solves this problem. Can anyone confirm that?

The issue will never be fixed. Apple had plenty of time and still nothing, they solved some bugs on the gpu of the new iMac in a matter of days so my guess is that they are very aware of this situation but can’t do anything about it. My suggestion is to wait for an Apple Silicon 16” and beg Apple to swap your intel 16” with the new arm one. It is possible if you complain enough

 

[panzer06]

I am about to buy an external monitor (Dell Ultrasharp U2720Q) to use with my MBP 16-inch, 2019 model. (AMD Radeon Pro 5500M 4GB)

Has anyone had experience using the Dell monitor (U2720Q) with macbook pro? Any suggestions?

I am not planning to use it with clamshell mode as I don't want to buy external keyboard and trackpad or mouse.

I had tried to use my macbook pro with an old FHD monitor and faced the same issues everyone complaining here which also ironically Mid-2012 model handles this perfectly.

And I wonder if this bug is going to be resolved with OS (BigSur) or any firmware update since I saw the following article that claims Bigsur Beta 6 solves this problem. Can anyone confirm that?

https://medium.com/@marlonalagoda/h...s-when-using-an-external-monitor-fea22ab1de72

I really don't understand all these complaints since I have zero issues with the system using my Dell U2720Q external connected via USB C.

The only time I have any fan noise is when streaming several video feeds or playing a 3D game. Even then it's not a bother for me. I've had plenty of MSI and Alienware gaming computers with louder fans.

 

[ght56]

I am about to buy an external monitor (Dell Ultrasharp U2720Q) to use with my MBP 16-inch, 2019 model. (AMD Radeon Pro 5500M 4GB)

Has anyone had experience using the Dell monitor (U2720Q) with macbook pro? Any suggestions?

I am not planning to use it with clamshell mode as I don't want to buy external keyboard and trackpad or mouse.

I had tried to use my macbook pro with an old FHD monitor and faced the same issues everyone complaining here which also ironically Mid-2012 model handles this perfectly.

And I wonder if this bug is going to be resolved with OS (BigSur) or any firmware update since I saw the following article that claims Bigsur Beta 6 solves this problem. Can anyone confirm that?

https://medium.com/@marlonalagoda/h...s-when-using-an-external-monitor-fea22ab1de72

The U2720Q operating with the clamshell open will trigger the same problematic behavior (20 watt draw at idle) that your 1080p display did with 5500M models in your desired usage scenario (as will its 25-inch QHD sibling). In my experience, Big Sur, at least through PB4, had no impact on the problematic behavior. I can't speak to the current version. Individual Apple employees have acknowledged the issue but been unable to comment on if a fix is in the works, presumably as Apple hasn't communicated whether or not that is going to happen.

How long ago did you last try your FHD display? If it has been a while, Apple has seem to have revised the fan profile relatively recently, so if it is noise alone that is bothering you then you may want to try it again to see if it is improved. If it is degraded performance, however, then obviously this is still an issue as the 20+ watt draw still persists.

 

[bomby0]

I don't know how it's possible but the problem seems even worse now. kernel_task going to 1000% CPU usage and everything feels very laggy ~10 minutes after I plug my external monitor it. All I'm running is Chrome and not even watching any videos!!!

The 16" MBP is UNUSABLE with an external monitor + open screen!

 

[coach_ditka]

I'm running 2 external monitors, chrome, firefox, plex, a remote desktop session, outlook, teams, onenote, and it's cool and quiet. Kernel_task is 10-11% CPU for me. Really enjoying the speakers on this computer!!

What happens if you kill kernel_task?

 

[jc_9]

I'm running 2 external monitors, chrome, firefox, plex, a remote desktop session, outlook, teams, onenote, and it's cool and quiet. Kernel_task is 10-11% CPU for me. Really enjoying the speakers on this computer!!

Are you using the internal screen as well?

 

[coach_ditka]

Are you using the internal screen as well?

Yes, internal screen + 2 dell 1680x1050 monitors.

 

[jc_9]

Yes, internal screen + 2 dell 1680x1050 monitors.

Can you confirm the dGPU power usage with iStats Menu?

iStat Menus

The ultimate system monitor for your menu bar, with CPU, GPU, memory, network, disk usage, disk activity, temperatures, fans, battery info and more.

bjango.com

If "Radeon High Side" is under 18W, you are extremely lucky and just got the right combo of resolutions + refresh rates to run 3 total screens at low dGPU power.

AFAIK that would the first successful report of using 3 total screens at low dGPU power.

 

[coach_ditka]

I don't have any intention of buying it, so I don't really want to install the trial. Let me see if I can find a different way to get the wattage. I do have Fanny, and it reports CPU and GPU temps at ~60 degrees no matter what I am doing. As I said earlier in the thread, maybe I have a really light workload.

 

[uptaker]

Are you using the internal screen as well?

What is your Macbook Specs? 16"? Radeon 5500 or 5600?

 

[orion73]

I don't have any intention of buying it, so I don't really want to install the trial. Let me see if I can find a different way to get the wattage. I do have Fanny, and it reports CPU and GPU temps at ~60 degrees no matter what I am doing. As I said earlier in the thread, maybe I have a really light workload.

Stats is great app and is free and open source, and it has also the dGPU wattage monitor. You can download the dmg here:

Releases · exelban/stats

macOS system monitor in your menu bar. Contribute to exelban/stats development by creating an account on GitHub.

github.com

 

[coach_ditka]

What is your Macbook Specs? 16"? Radeon 5500 or 5600?

It's a 16" i7/5300.

 

[petterihiisila]

What happens if you kill kernel_task?

Kernel_task cannot be killed. It’s the first process the operating system and all apps stand on, the one ring that rules them all.

When the OS measures high enough combination of temps, kernel_task will saturate the system, running empty cycles, squeezing all processes with no resources left to use, effectively killing CPU use. And that will gradually cool the computer back to normal temps. 1000% kernel_task isn’t “real” load, it’s the opposite: forcing a “no load” situation.

In every case someone has been subjectively happy with 16” temps (open lid + ext monitor), the 18 W consumption has been present upon inspection. Because it’s a hardware + driver issue.

Now, whether that results in a problem, that’s somewhat subjective, until the kernel_task kicks in during an important Webex presentation and the computer grinds to a halt.

And that’s why people have been working around it for months. Accepting the situation is the cheapest solution. Others cost money.

 

[jc_9]

I don't have any intention of buying it, so I don't really want to install the trial. Let me see if I can find a different way to get the wattage. I do have Fanny, and it reports CPU and GPU temps at ~60 degrees no matter what I am doing. As I said earlier in the thread, maybe I have a really light workload.

60degrees is what I also have on idle while the dGPU is consuming 19W, I guess you do have a light workload

 

[coach_ditka]

Just as a point of reference, I was working a bit this morning at my kitchen table, with no external monitors. CPU temps are a bit lower - 57-59 degrees vs 60 degrees steady when using external monitors. Same collection of applications open and running. Still working on figuring out the GPU wattage without ISTAT.

 

[crymimefireworks]

Just as a point of reference, I was working a bit this morning at my kitchen table, with no external monitors. CPU temps are a bit lower - 57-59 degrees vs 60 degrees steady when using external monitors. Same collection of applications open and running. Still working on figuring out the GPU wattage without ISTAT.

In case you missed the post above, you can get these stats here for free with the Stats app: Releases · exelban/stats and click where it says "Stats.dmg"
This link should also work:
Stats.dmg

I installed it thanks to this post. Looks good, very similar to iStat Menu. It's the "GPU Power" panel everyone is referring to. When an external monitor is plugged and the Macbook is open, GPU Power will read 18W. With nothing plugged in, GPU Power will read ~0.2W.

 

[crymimefireworks]

I am about to buy an external monitor (Dell Ultrasharp U2720Q) to use with my MBP 16-inch, 2019 model. (AMD Radeon Pro 5500M 4GB)

Has anyone had experience using the Dell monitor (U2720Q) with macbook pro? Any suggestions?

I am not planning to use it with clamshell mode as I don't want to buy external keyboard and trackpad or mouse.

I had tried to use my macbook pro with an old FHD monitor and faced the same issues everyone complaining here which also ironically Mid-2012 model handles this perfectly.

And I wonder if this bug is going to be resolved with OS (BigSur) or any firmware update since I saw the following article that claims Bigsur Beta 6 solves this problem. Can anyone confirm that?

https://medium.com/@marlonalagoda/h...s-when-using-an-external-monitor-fea22ab1de72

I have this exact monitor, Dell U2720Q. I also have a 2019 MBP 16-inch, 5500M 4GB as well (2.3Ghz i9, 32GB, 1TB)

I love my U2720Q. Having just one cord to plug in is wonderful. No issues with charging, battery is always at 100%. The display resolution stuff seemed a bit finicky when I first got it but have forgotten the issue by now.

I definitely have the 18W issue when using the laptop open + plugged into the monitor. However, I prefer to keep my laptop closed anyway. So this whole 18W GPU issue is more of a curiosity than something that matters to me. I have the Apple keyboard and mouse.

Regarding Big Sur Beta 6: I just installed the latest Big Sur beta today, still had the same 18W GPU issue when laptop is open + monitor connected. I ended up downgrading to Catalina since some of the software I use isn't updated yet.

 

[chasank]

The U2720Q operating with the clamshell open will trigger the same problematic behavior (20 watt draw at idle) that your 1080p display did with 5500M models in your desired usage scenario (as will its 25-inch QHD sibling). In my experience, Big Sur, at least through PB4, had no impact on the problematic behavior. I can't speak to the current version. Individual Apple employees have acknowledged the issue but been unable to comment on if a fix is in the works, presumably as Apple hasn't communicated whether or not that is going to happen.

How long ago did you last try your FHD display? If it has been a while, Apple has seem to have revised the fan profile relatively recently, so if it is noise alone that is bothering you then you may want to try it again to see if it is improved. If it is degraded performance, however, then obviously this is still an issue as the 20+ watt draw still persists.

Yes I have tried recently with my old FHD display and the result is still the same. With open lid dGPU draws >18W and with clamshell mode it draws <5W. So it seems to be the problem still persists.

Well, let's consider the Apple's official statement about the issue "expected behaviour". If we ignore the fan noises and the heat generated, what would happen for the long term usage with external monitor + open lid which forces to dGPU draw >18W at idle usage? Would it shorthen the life span of internal components? I guess all these components are designed to work well with these relatively high temperatures (< 100 degrees)

 

[theSeb]

Yes I have tried recently with my old FHD display and the result is still the same. With open lid dGPU draws >18W and with clamshell mode it draws <5W. So it seems to be the problem still persists.

Well, let's consider the Apple's official statement about the issue "expected behaviour". If we ignore the fan noises and the heat generated, what would happen for the long term usage with external monitor + open lid which forces to dGPU draw >18W at idle usage? Would it shorthen the life span of internal components? I guess all these components are designed to work well with these relatively high temperatures (< 100 degrees)

In theory it should all be fine. This is the oldest MacBook Pro I still own and it has spent most of its life at these temperatures.

 

[chasank]

In theory it should all be fine. This is the oldest MacBook Pro I still own and it has spent most of its life at these temperatures.

View attachment 973839

I also still own a Mid-2012 Macbook Pro and it still works flawlessly. That's why I bought a Macbook pro again without hesitation but this issue is really disappointment. I hope Apple & AMD will fix this issue as soon as possible.

 

[ght56]

Yes I have tried recently with my old FHD display and the result is still the same. With open lid dGPU draws >18W and with clamshell mode it draws <5W. So it seems to be the problem still persists.

Well, let's consider the Apple's official statement about the issue "expected behaviour". If we ignore the fan noises and the heat generated, what would happen for the long term usage with external monitor + open lid which forces to dGPU draw >18W at idle usage? Would it shorthen the life span of internal components? I guess all these components are designed to work well with these relatively high temperatures (< 100 degrees)

The question you are asking is one I cannot answer but one I asked myself. That question and the loss in performance led me to return my 5500M MBP16 and purchase a 5600M model. We would assume (and hope) these components are designed to withstand the increased heat as a result of the feature/problem/flaw/issue/normal behavior (whatever someone wants to call it) of the high power draw, but obviously premature dGPU failure from major amounts of heat is not completely unheard of. I do hope Apple/AMD can figure out something for 5300/5500 owners. Apple made a great computer but this is a significant issue for so many.

 

[GumaRodak]

So the draw issue is generally only when the lid is open?