(2019) 16" is HOT & NOISY with an external monitor! :(

[jaduffy007]

So who is the crap here? Intel or Apple? I am confused…

Both, imo. With the 2019 16" MBP, Apple put out a flawed product in terms of thermals & external monitors. And provided utter s**t service in response. Even w/o the external monitor attached, the 16" was uncomfortably hot resting on my lap.

Apple has since created fantastic products around Apple Silicon. Intel is 2-3 generations behind, thus "crap". But you already knew this.

 

[GumaRodak]

Yes i know, but officially, according specification, there is nothing to officially claim. So thats how a US law works…

 

[thepear]

This is my first post after months of stalking and I hope it helps some people who doesn't want to waste money on GPU power that you do not use.

Fret not fellow 16 inches I'm following up on solutions provided by some good samaritans here you can search for their post by typing "rotation" and search this thread which is buried somewhere over 200 pages.
So I followed their advice and here is my set-up to prevent the dreaded "20W" radeon side.

Previously bought a M1 air 16gb, had to sell it this month as work required x86 for certain stuffs esp the VM side.. geez

my current setup
Machine: MBP 16 2.3 GHz 8-Core Intel Core i9, 16GB ram, AMD Radeon Pro 5500M 4 GB in CLAMSHELL
Display: LG 27UL850-W, This model is also known as UK or ... in other countries. I already had one so purchasing only one more
Monitor Reference link

Please see attached picture for proof, stable at 5-9W no SwitchX used

Tested all ports and rotation Radeon high side will not hit 18-20W.

Side note: Do not attempt on 1440P monitors I have tested them, they do not work for sure on DUAL monitor setup. USE 4k monitors or 1080P for your test beg borrow steal. Maybe it's a resolution issue or HZ issue. I'm not risking purchasing a different brand to test this.

Almost wanted to cave in and spend a **** ton on the 5600M which I will never utilise. solved my issue and provided me with another display woo-hoo!

Downside is now I will need to purchase a webcam .

 

[prospervic]

This is my first post after months of stalking and I hope it helps some people who doesn't want to waste money on GPU power that you do not use.

Fret not fellow 16 inches I'm following up on solutions provided by some good samaritans here you can search for their post by typing "rotation" and search this thread which is buried somewhere over 200 pages.
So I followed their advice and here is my set-up to prevent the dreaded "20W" radeon side.

Previously bought a M1 air 16gb, had to sell it this month as work required x86 for certain stuffs esp the VM side.. geez

my current setup
Machine: MBP 16 2.3 GHz 8-Core Intel Core i9, 16GB ram, AMD Radeon Pro 5500M 4 GB in CLAMSHELL
Display: LG 27UL850-W, This model is also known as UK or ... in other countries. I already had one so purchasing only one more
Monitor Reference link

Please see attached picture for proof, stable at 5-9W no SwitchX used

Tested all ports and rotation Radeon high side will not hit 18-20W.

Side note: Do not attempt on 1440P monitors I have tested them, they do not work for sure on DUAL monitor setup. USE 4k monitors or 1080P for your test beg borrow steal. Maybe it's a resolution issue or HZ issue. I'm not risking purchasing a different brand to test this.

Almost wanted to cave in and spend a **** ton on the 5600M which I will never utilise. solved my issue and provided me with another display woo-hoo!

View attachment 1806732

Downside is now I will need to purchase a webcam .

Happy for your successful resolution. But I'm not clear on exactly what you did to fix the problem.
Was it using different ports? The choice of monitor?

 

[ComRBLX]

I heard a lot of people complaining about the fan noise here, has anyone considered a software call Krisp? It's a paid software (although there's a free version), and it's essentially a virtual microphone that blocks out background audio. It's really good at what it does, I recommend it 100 percent. I own a MacBookPro 16 inch and there are 2 methods that help keep it cool for me at least. The VRM mod (while padding the left thunderbolt controller) and keeping the laptop on a stand. Furthermore, I recommend disabling turbo boost when using any sort of video conferencing app such as Zoom or Microsoft Teams. So yeah, my recommendation - check out Krisp if the fan noise is a huge issue for you. A lot of people here in general don't know what they are talking about. This MBP can't really be compared to a silicon chip, they are in two different classes. With regards to the new silicon chips, Apple has done an extraordinary job creating their own processing unit, and I'm excited to see what's in store for these highly efficient low wattage but powerful chips. But when you compare the Intel MacBook pro 16 inches to its Window counterparts such as the Dell XPS15 and such, I believe it stacks up quite well against them. So if you want to switch out your laptop with an apple silicon one, that's your choice. But literally stop saying that the 16-inch pro is sh*t, because it really isn't once you apply the VRM mod. Compare it to windows laptops that are their counterparts and then see what sh*t is.

 

[mihirdelirious]

I heard a lot of people complaining about the fan noise here, has anyone considered a software call Krisp? It's a paid software (although there's a free version), and it's essentially a virtual microphone that blocks out background audio. It's really good at what it does, I recommend it 100 percent. I own a MacBookPro 16 inch and there are 2 methods that help keep it cool for me at least. The VRM mod (while padding the left thunderbolt controller) and keeping the laptop on a stand. Furthermore, I recommend disabling turbo boost when using any sort of video conferencing app such as Zoom or Microsoft Teams. So yeah, my recommendation - check out Krisp if the fan noise is a huge issue for you. A lot of people here in general don't know what they are talking about. This MBP can't really be compared to a silicon chip, they are in two different classes. With regards to the new silicon chips, Apple has done an extraordinary job creating their own processing unit, and I'm excited to see what's in store for these highly efficient low wattage but powerful chips. But when you compare the Intel MacBook pro 16 inches to its Window counterparts such as the Dell XPS15 and such, I believe it stacks up quite well against them. So if you want to switch out your laptop with an apple silicon one, that's your choice. But literally stop saying that the 16-inch pro is sh*t, because it really isn't once you apply the VRM mod. Compare it to windows laptops that are their counterparts and then see what sh*t is.

You must be delusional and/or an Apple fanboy. I also own the 16 inch MacBook Pro with the 5300M with a 1TB SSD. It's the WORST laptop I have ever used. Just like many people on this forum, I have also spent weeks, countless hours discussing this issue with Apple Support. Eventually, the engineering department said that it is expected/normal behavior. Absolutely ridiculous. $3000+ down the sewers.
1. The VRM mod does NOT resolve this issue. You risk damaging the machine & losing your AppleCare warranty. The VRM mod simply delays the inevitable extreme-throttling by a bit of time.
2. Most people here wouldn't even care much about the fan noise if the MBP performed well without overheating/throttling.
3. It seems you don't know what you are talking about. The 16 inch MacBook Pro is the most expensive line of MacBook that Apple sells as of today. If the 16 inch MBP performed properly as advertised, it would still smoke the M1 chips in terms of GPU performance, amount of RAM for pro apps, four external 4k displays support, x86 windows bootcamp support etc.
4. The 5300M & 5500M problem might still be resoluble via driver updates to calculate the refresh rates & GPU polling accurately. Most other GPUs have decent algorithms to calculate the multi-display refreshrate-resolution-clockspeed-wattage combination without asking the GPU to brute force it at full clock speed. However, Apple has shameless denied this to even be an issue.
5. Most people would agree that the 16" MBP is a solid laptop IF you never ever use an external display at all.

 

[PeterJP]

This is my first post after months of stalking and I hope it helps some people who doesn't want to waste money on GPU power that you do not use.

Fret not fellow 16 inches I'm following up on solutions provided by some good samaritans here you can search for their post by typing "rotation" and search this thread which is buried somewhere over 200 pages.

And what a cool post to mark your entry into this thread. I love it. I have a single LG 27UL650 at work connected to a mac mini M1, but at home I'd prefer to keep using my 16" and add 2 4K screens. Looking at 24" screens, as 2x 27" stacked vertically is a really huge surface. With this approach, it looks like I'll be able to use the 16" clam shell and not overheat all the time.

As for sound/video, yeah, a webcam will be a must. I have studio monitors for music production but I'll be adding a USB speakerphone instead of trying to use the built-in mic/speakers while in clamshell. So that basically turns the 16" into a desktop, but I'm fine with that. I'll connect it to a serious dock anyway so it's one cable to connect and go.

Edit: question: how do you connect your 2 LG 4K screens? Directly to the TB ports? Or via a hub, then HDMI or DP?

 

[thepear]

And what a cool post to mark your entry into this thread. I love it. I have a single LG 27UL650 at work connected to a mac mini M1, but at home I'd prefer to keep using my 16" and add 2 4K screens. Looking at 24" screens, as 2x 27" stacked vertically is a really huge surface. With this approach, it looks like I'll be able to use the 16" clam shell and not overheat all the time.

As for sound/video, yeah, a webcam will be a must. I have studio monitors for music production but I'll be adding a USB speakerphone instead of trying to use the built-in mic/speakers while in clamshell. So that basically turns the 16" into a desktop, but I'm fine with that. I'll connect it to a serious dock anyway so it's one cable to connect and go.

Edit: question: how do you connect your 2 LG 4K screens? Directly to the TB ports? Or via a hub, then HDMI or DP?

I connect both wires to my MacBook via the USB-C that was supplied with the monitor so I can use the USB hub at the back of the monitor for stuffs.

I have tried every orientation every port combination and usable display resolution and the radeon wattage stays at 5-10W with occasional spikes to 20W. but fan rpms are 2.5k max no audible noise.

my ambient temperature is 27-31 degrees

Also re re-cap someone mentioned that the lg ultra fine 5k monitor works as well with no overheat.

 

[thepear]

Happy for your successful resolution. But I'm not clear on exactly what you did to fix the problem.
Was it using different ports? The choice of monitor?

I am merely providing what is a guarantee work around so you don't waste money and time buying and returning products on amazon.

I didn't use any specific ports all ports work the same as mentioned, choice of monitor was in the link I provided. It's for people who need a minimum of 2 monitors to work with.

 

[mihirdelirious]

Edit -> TLDR:- LG 27UL500 4K display + iPad Pro 10.5" SideCar display -> ~6 Watt idle. No SwitchResX, No Mods. Fans around 2.5k rpm. Room temperature ~28* Celcius.

Original Post:
I have a 16" MBP base model 5300M with 1TB SSD. I've been following this thread & the one on Apple Support forums for the past 1 year. I have spent weeks troubleshooting this issue with Apple just to shamelessly be told that the 18-20 watt dGPU &, by consequence, the CPU throttling to 0.80 GHz is 'expected behaviour'. More than $3000 as well as weeks of productive time lost. As a professional musician, I have used countless computers but, this is by far the worst computer I have ever purchased or used. Apple Support keeps denying this issue but we all have to keep pushing for justice.

Here's some test results on my end:
1. Internal Display + any External display -> ~18-20 watt -> Fans become very loud, noisy. The Mac heats up a lot and then throttles heavily a few minutes later while using any Pro applications like Logic Pro.

2. Internal Display + iPad Pro 10.5 inch 2017 ( iOS 14.6 - Sidecar Wireless OR wired lightning-usb C cable) -> ~18-20 watt -> same as previous case. Throttles heavily after a few minutes while using any Pro applications like Logic Pro.

3. Clamshell mode (Only External display) -> your mileage may vary. Some external displays might work with just ~6 watt.

4. iPad Pro 10.5 inch 2017 ( iOS 14.6 - Sidecar Wireless OR wired lightning-usb C cable) + LG 27UL500 4K display (Mokin 4k@60hz HDMI adapter) + clamshell (internal display closed) -> ~ 6 Watt of power when idle. The fans are running around 2500-2600 rpm, quite low and inaudible in comparison. This is some black magic right here that I cannot comprehend. I finally managed to have 2 working displays.. So is SideCar using AirPlay?
While this is not a solution, I hope this information helps anyone struggling to work without 2 displays.
Please see attached screenshots.

NOTE: The VRM throttling issue still persists as the VRM chips have inadequate cooling. From my experience iPad Pro sidecar + LG 27UL500 has reduced the VRM throttling during normal/average use, but VRM throttling still occurs during extended pro applications usage.
I do not have a 12.9 inch iPad, but it'd be great if someone could test it. Please do check your iOS version.

I still have my late 2013 15 inch MacBook Pro base model with 2.0 GHz 4 core CPU, 8GB RAM & just Intel Iris Pro 5200 integrated graphics. It feels surreal to say that I am using the old machine as my primary recording studio computer with 2 additional 4K monitors, and it just runs perfectly fine. Suffice to say, I will never buy a MacBook again. Going forward, I'm only gonna ever buy the cheapest Mac mini as I do need to use Logic Pro X professionally.

 

[thepear]

Yes can confirm iPad side car works wirelesss/wired also tested that a few months back but screen estate is too small for me to be of any use besides setting it for zoom participants

Looks like 4k LG monitors will resolve some of the issue, anyone with dell care to test ?

 

[mihirdelirious]

Yes can confirm iPad side car works wirelesss/wired also tested that a few months back but screen estate is too small for me to be of any use besides setting it for zoom participants

Looks like 4k LG monitors will resolve some of the issue, anyone with dell care to test ?

Interestingly enough, I tried Duet Display on iPad Pro as secondary monitor (wired). The AMD dGPU jumped back to 18-20 Watt again. I noticed that Duet display uses hardware acceleration and creates a monitor profile in About this Mac -> Displays when connected unlike SideCar. A few users in this thread mentioned resorting to using an AppleTV as AirPlay display. So, I have a feeling that SideCar uses Airplay protocol (wireless as well as wired) which is somehow different from the regular HDMI/DisplayPort. I don't know the technicalities & programming behind it though.

 

[chefwong]

Reading this thread now....

Finally got some downtime and redoing my desk. I've got a Dell 40" 5K on order. MBP with 5500 card

 

[mihirdelirious]

Reading this thread now....

Finally got some downtime and redoing my desk. I've got a Dell 40" 5K on order. MBP with 5500 card

Welcome to the 16" MBP victims' customers' club. I highly recommend returning the 5300M/5500M GPU MacBook Pros and getting a refund if it's still possible to do so.

 

[nerdo]

Welcome to the 16" MBP victims' customers' club. I highly recommend returning the 5300M/5500M GPU MacBook Pros and getting a refund if it's still possible to do so.

Yep, returned mine after two weeks, it was worse than the 2017 15inch. Terrible machine, I do love the new MBA M1.

 

[chefwong]

Out of my return .....it's almost a year old. LOL. I don't use it that much .....just checked. Has 4 battery cycles on it. I am finally taking the time out to decommision out the older MBP I've been using.....

Is it the GPU. I recall doing a quick test with a USB C-Displayport on my exisiting 4K monitor awhile back and it was noiseless. But it was a short informal test though.

 

[Minga089]

Reading this thread now....

Finally got some downtime and redoing my desk. I've got a Dell 40" 5K on order. MBP with 5500 card

Are you planning to use your monitor in clamshell mode? Then there likely won't be any problems.

 

[chefwong]

Clamshell yes. Not even sure if I will hook it up and use it connected to a external monitr.
I have to see how it looks scaled..on the 5K 40".

 

[ComRBLX]

You must be delusional and/or an Apple fanboy. I also own the 16 inch MacBook Pro with the 5300M with a 1TB SSD. It's the WORST laptop I have ever used. Just like many people on this forum, I have also spent weeks, countless hours discussing this issue with Apple Support. Eventually, the engineering department said that it is expected/normal behavior. Absolutely ridiculous. $3000+ down the sewers.
1. The VRM mod does NOT resolve this issue. You risk damaging the machine & losing your AppleCare warranty. The VRM mod simply delays the inevitable extreme-throttling by a bit of time.
2. Most people here wouldn't even care much about the fan noise if the MBP performed well without overheating/throttling.
3. It seems you don't know what you are talking about. The 16 inch MacBook Pro is the most expensive line of MacBook that Apple sells as of today. If the 16 inch MBP performed properly as advertised, it would still smoke the M1 chips in terms of GPU performance, amount of RAM for pro apps, four external 4k displays support, x86 windows bootcamp support etc.
4. The 5300M & 5500M problem might still be resoluble via driver updates to calculate the refresh rates & GPU polling accurately. Most other GPUs have decent algorithms to calculate the multi-display refreshrate-resolution-clockspeed-wattage combination without asking the GPU to brute force it at full clock speed. However, Apple has shameless denied this to even be an issue.
5. Most people would agree that the 16" MBP is a solid laptop IF you never ever use an external display at all.

How are your ambient temperatures like? The VRM mod should alleviate most VRM throttling unless the ambient temperature is high. Did you try a stand, maybe pointing a fan towards the computer?

 

[mihirdelirious]

How are your ambient temperatures like? The VRM mod should alleviate most VRM throttling unless the ambient temperature is high. Did you try a stand, maybe pointing a fan towards the computer?

I mostly use the MacBook Pro in music recording studios (with air-conditioning 20* Celcius or below). As I mentioned before, I wouldn't do the VRM mod as I don't wanna to lose AppleCare or risk damaging the computer. This is my indispensable primary Mac without which I cannot make money. I have had a downtime of 4+ weeks while Apple technicians ran their 'diagnostics' at the service center.

With external displays connected, I have come to a realization that the VRM throttling massively affects the power draw of both the CPU and dGPU being used together during heavy tasks. My understanding is that the hot VRMs can supply enough power to the CPU (45W TDP/PL1) but when combined with the dGPU (up to the rated 50W), it all fails. This is most evident when I am working on Wwise/Unity or Wwise/Unreal projects. Kernel_task chugs the CPU down to about 0.8 GHz, but as soon as I unplug the external displays, the projects run far better and the CPU runs okay.

At this point, I'm just considering buying the Sonnet Puck 5500 XT eGPU. I think that should completely alleviate the internal dGPU heating issue while also giving me better performance. Can't afford buying another computer or risk any more downtime.

 

[GumaRodak]

Yes the egpu is good solution, for example, i was gaming with egpu on internal monitor via bootcamp (dgpu always on) turbo boost off and was achieving 60-70C temp range with no hearable fans.

 

[MarceFX]

I tried the eGPU route with the 16". It works well except for the extra costs and the extra noise...though significantly quieter than the 16" MBP on its own. For audio production, depending on your set up, that could be a problem, or not. It was an issue for me. There are also fan upgrades that make eGPUs quieter than the one I bought (and returned).

Buying a 5500M will be WORSE.

5600M (ka-ching !!) will be much better. If you need a 16" Intel machine, this is the only one *I* would consider.

My two cents...if you don't have specific Intel based needs. Get any M1 machine or wait for the upcoming machines in the Fall.

Thanks for the info!

I'm thinking of getting the cheapest eGPU setup for my needs. I only have this issue when I'm on a video conference and my cam is on (which I use a lot since I work from home).

Any advice on the cheapest graphic card I could get for this job? I took a look at the NVIDIA GeForce GT 710 + Razer Core X, but I'm not sure if that would be enough.

Waiting for the new M1 16" MacBook is not an option for me right now :-(

 

[ComRBLX]

I mostly use the MacBook Pro in music recording studios (with air-conditioning 20* Celcius or below). As I mentioned before, I wouldn't do the VRM mod as I don't wanna to lose AppleCare or risk damaging the computer. This is my indispensable primary Mac without which I cannot make money. I have had a downtime of 4+ weeks while Apple technicians ran their 'diagnostics' at the service center.

With external displays connected, I have come to a realization that the VRM throttling massively affects the power draw of both the CPU and dGPU being used together during heavy tasks. My understanding is that the hot VRMs can supply enough power to the CPU (45W TDP/PL1) but when combined with the dGPU (up to the rated 50W), it all fails. This is most evident when I am working on Wwise/Unity or Wwise/Unreal projects. Kernel_task chugs the CPU down to about 0.8 GHz, but as soon as I unplug the external displays, the projects run far better and the CPU runs okay.

At this point, I'm just considering buying the Sonnet Puck 5500 XT eGPU. I think that should completely alleviate the internal dGPU heating issue while also giving me better performance. Can't afford buying another computer or risk any more downtime.

Completely understand your position. Although the VRM mod does not void apple care (as opening the back of your laptop does not void your warranty) and the mod is reversible (i.e You are able to remove the thermal pads prior to sending it to an apple store in case of an issue with the computer), the computer is extremely expensive. I think as you said, your best bet is an EGPU. Just be careful about scams as the market is terrible. You might be finding yourself paying 3X the MSRP for the 5700XT due to market conditions.

 

[ComRBLX]

Yes the egpu is good solution, for example, i was gaming with egpu on internal monitor via bootcamp (dgpu always on) turbo boost off and was achieving 60-70C temp range with no hearable fans.

Quick Suggestion - With an eGPU, pretty much any power limit throttling is removed from the actual MacBook since the DGPU is not activated. You can actually game with turbo boost enabled and you will have really good performance. A general issue that will arise might be thermal-limit throttling, but the best way to resolve that is downloading a program called "process lasso", and individually disable hyperthreading for the game you are playing. That way, your CPU will still be able to draw higher than the rated 45 WATT TDP providing excellent performance in conjunction with the EGPU.

 

[mihirdelirious]

Completely understand your position. Although the VRM mod does not void apple care (as opening the back of your laptop does not void your warranty) and the mod is reversible (i.e You are able to remove the thermal pads prior to sending it to an apple store in case of an issue with the computer), the computer is extremely expensive. I think as you said, your best bet is an EGPU. Just be careful about scams as the market is terrible. You might be finding yourself paying 3X the MSRP for the 5700XT due to market conditions.

I just ordered the Sonnet Puck 5500 XT eGPU (about $800 including taxes in my country). The form factor is appealing to me, it's something I could carry with the laptop anywhere I go. It might take 2-3 weeks to be delivered though.
About the VRM mod, in my experience, thermal pads do sometimes leave some sort of thick sticky residue after prolonged heating. Just not worth the risk for me at the moment. It's something I'd consider once my AppleCare ends post September 2023.