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(2019) 16" is HOT & NOISY with an external monitor! :(
- Thread starter Appledoesnotlisten
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If enough people complain about it, Apple might give us a 16" with an iGPU just so we shut up.
I experienced this on two different MBP 16 " (i9 and i7) that have both been returned. The integrated 620 UHD adapter runs very cool (both systems were between 35C and 45C) under normal use. BUT, when I hooked up my external 27" LG 4K monitor the thermal overhead from the Radeon graphics adapter sent the temp soaring right up to 100C. This is also easy to reproduce without an external monitor by disabling auto graphics switching in System Preferences and selecting drift as a screensaver. 15 minutes after the screensaver engaged the two MBP were at 70C under idle conditions. After a total of 30 minutes they were both at or beyond 100C. The fans did speed up (from 2100 rpm to about 2500 rpm) but not until the MBPs were at 90C. I used TC Pro to run the fans at max which brought the temp down to 55C rather quickly. Returned both since the head made question the long term viability of the units.
Order an Imac in their place which will be here on Tuesday. Hopefully that will go better.
He must be trolling us.
He suggests that we use eGPU if dGPU is consuming too much power...
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Those Youtubers can be quite ignorant at times.
Don't set your fan speeds using your CPU temperature.
The reason Macbook 16 fans are start ramping early is Thunderbolt port temperatures. Macs are using every sensor inside to set the fan speed, not just CPU. If you let your Thunderbolt port heat up, and prevent fans spinning faster, the mac will throttle CPU and GPU to very low speeds and use kernel_task to kill the performance.
My 16" (Radeon Pro 5500M) and dual LG 4k UltraFine monitors at idle.
Work 2019 15" MBP (Radeon Pro 560x)
| (Single) LG 22” 4K UltraFine | (Dual) LG 22” 4K UltraFine | |
| Closed lid (clamshell) | ~4.4 Watts | ~5 Watts |
| Open lid | ~17.4 Watts | ~18.3 Watts |
Work 2019 15" MBP (Radeon Pro 560x)
| (Single) LG 22” 4K UltraFine | (Dual) LG 22” 4K UltraFine | |
| Closed lid (clamshell) | ~7.2 Watts | ~10.5 Watts |
| Open lid | ~10.5 Watts | ~14.2 Watts |
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My 2017 15" MBP (Radeon Pro 560x) draws even less with dual 4K monitors at higher resolutions 5120x2880: ~11.06 Watts. I am starting to love the 2017 model that stays cool no matter what. Love the screen of the 16", but will wait for an official fix to come out.
I hedge against keyboard failure by keeping a spare 2017 MBP and a Time Machine. If it fails, I drop it at Apple Store for a free repair and my spare MBP 2017 is up and running in an hour thanks to Time Machine.
P.S. People bitch that Radeon Pro 560 is too weak, but it more than enough for 95% of the users.
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Man this is very helpful information! Thanks for sharing.
Hello guys,
I have this same problem.
After connecting two external monitors fans are turned on almost on full during standard work (a few cards in Safari).
What should I do? I can't work in such a noise.
Please tell me, did anyone do it with an external eGPU? If yes, what is the effect?
I have this same problem.
After connecting two external monitors fans are turned on almost on full during standard work (a few cards in Safari).
What should I do? I can't work in such a noise.
Please tell me, did anyone do it with an external eGPU? If yes, what is the effect?
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I'm the original poster in the Apple Community for the MBP fan / heat issues that Max Tech is referring to. I'm commenting here because the video provided isn't accurate. First, he is doing his tests without being plugged in so he isn't dealing with the heat from the 97watts from the wall. Also, background applications and tasks don't operate on the same frequencies when on battery (for example Photos, Mail etc), so you will see less utilization on the computer as a whole. Lastly, the EXCESSIVE heat is solely being generated by the GPU and increases from one external monitor to two external monitors and he is using it in clamshell mode, which changes the results dramatically. The CPU isn't really the issue and you should not install applications that artificially slow down your computer or limit its functionality to use a $3k to $6k laptop. These heat issues are not just "annoying fan noise" but will shorten the life of these laptops because they do and will run 100 degrees Celsius for extended periods of time and the overall performance will be throttled. We are using or tested at least 14 units since November all with the same issues in four different configurations. Many of us have been contacted in the Apple Community by Apple Engineers and after providing information, Apple has disappeared. The struggle has been to get Apple to recognize these issues. This coming week, we have a conference with a senior Apple Engineer and the Apple Business Team. Hoping to get more information.
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This is inaccurate though. Try plugging in literally *anything* in any of the USB-C ports, like two lightning cable with no device attached. Just the cables. If you attach on cable on the left and one on the right, you'll fire up both Thunderbolt controllers and see the system consumption go up by 5W for left and 5W for right for a total of +10W for doing nothing.
This was not the case in 15" models, which would only fire up the Thunderbolt controller if there was actually a Thunderbolt device attached. That's why on 16" models, apart from the dGPU burning as much as 18W at idle in some configurations or refresh rates (mine burns 18W at 1440p 60hz but goes back down to 4W if I do 85, 120 or 144hz) as soon as you plug in a monitor, even if it's not Thunderbolt or if it's through a USB-C hub/adapter, you get those wasted watts and heat as a result. Please discuss also this if you get a chance to talk with Apple, I submitted my feedback report over a month ago with all these info but for now it didn't do anything.
At last, I'm sorry to say it, but Max Tech video is a hot steaming pile of garbage. He's advising people to try and cure the symptoms (fan noise) instead of searching and troubleshooting the root cause (heat generation). I really didn't have the strength to watch it until the end, he had me at the fan profiles.
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Plugging my Thunderbolt to Thunderbolt 2 adapter, and then my Thunderbolt Ethernet adapter doesn't raise my temps one bit.
Why does Apple need to talk to internet users when they could just grab a couple MacBook Pros and displays and hash this out in their own offices?
Why does Apple need to talk to internet users when they could just grab a couple MacBook Pros and displays and hash this out in their own offices?
Well then why don’t they hurry up and fix it
It does, but if your fans are already over idle threshold you wouldn't notice because fans will spin up a little bit more to compensate for the added temperature. That's why we look at energy consumption, not temperatures.
Because it's clearly good enough for them, and when in two years our bottom case will start to bulge because of the swollen batteries constantly being at 35°C, we will be the ones to foot the bill for a new one, not them. There is no reason whatsoever to allow a GPU to burn 18W for doing NOTHING, or a USB-C port to burn 4W inside the chassis for just plugging in a cable. As said, in a system rated for 96W, you're leaving 25% of the thermal capabilities on the table just staying idle.
I paid 4119€ for an Core i9 machine and I expect it to perform at 100% of its capabilities, not 75%. And I'd also like it being cool and silent on ultralight workloads. If I wanted to hear my fans spinning up for watching a YouTube video, I'd spend a fraction of that price and buy a Lenovo from Amazon.
Hi guys,
some of you mentioned they've this issue, too. But they don't mention which specified hardware they have. So can you tell me if this issue only occurred when having a better equipped MBP (Intel i9, AMD Radeon Pro 5500M) or also if you have the Basis version (Intel i7, AMD Radeon Pro 5300M)? I'll get my better equipped MacBook Pro 16" (Intel i9 2.3 Ghz, AMD Radeon Pro 5500M 4 GB) for work in a few days. Now I'm a bit 'scared' that fan noise will be loud in my office and disturb my colleagues...
From what I read, I assume that this time not the processor produced the noisy fan, it's now the graphics card.
Thanks!
some of you mentioned they've this issue, too. But they don't mention which specified hardware they have. So can you tell me if this issue only occurred when having a better equipped MBP (Intel i9, AMD Radeon Pro 5500M) or also if you have the Basis version (Intel i7, AMD Radeon Pro 5300M)? I'll get my better equipped MacBook Pro 16" (Intel i9 2.3 Ghz, AMD Radeon Pro 5500M 4 GB) for work in a few days. Now I'm a bit 'scared' that fan noise will be loud in my office and disturb my colleagues...
From what I read, I assume that this time not the processor produced the noisy fan, it's now the graphics card.
Thanks!
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The issue here is very simple. Stop buying them. When I realized that this problem is gonna exist like forever with dGPU models I had to make a decision. I even considered Windows machines, but from my experience with Windows I am not in the mood to get back to those headaches. Yes, Windows 10 is less bad, but still with time it crushes any hardware you throw at it until you have to format and start fresh.
So no Windows for me. Two solutions - go for 13", which I find too small to use standalone anyway or buy a rMPB 15 with iGPU. I went for the latter.
If Apple wants to release a 16 iGPU this year I will analyze it with much interest, if this (for me) stupid idea of cramming a dGPU thinking that the 16 is only for creative audio/video professionals on the era of eGPU continues I really hope my current machine can last forever ?
Apple dropped the ball on users. Poor software. Unreliable keyboards. Unrepairable systems. Cost of acquisition and ownership.
My colleagues at my university are holding to their 2012-2015 machines as long as they can. I am sick of this iphone-priority approach, I still rock a X and hope it will last at least two more years. In my vision Apple has to come up with real innovation to win costumers. This is not 2000s anymore and the "last and best" is not tempting. Especially when the "best for the best" is this.
People want tools that work, they don't want problems. That is why I left Windows 12 years ago, because Apple was creating things that work. I was willing to pay double for the same electronics for this. Now as I write on my trusty 2015 15" model I see no reason to pay premium price for new products that give such headaches to users.
I've seen some on these forums writing about AMD processors. I am not a fan of that approach since we are at this stage because of an AMD chip. I still think Intel has power/thermals advantage even using 14nm. I hope I am wrong and AMD can and will be used on future Apple products. Everybody likes choices.
Stopping the rant, how can Apple present solutions? Here is a couple of approaches to begin with:
- 16" iGPU only or consider the more power-efficient Nvidia chips. Companies exist because clients exist. I've seen Nokia fall because they didn't want to use Android and went for WM. Clients disappeared and so the company from the mobile phone market
- Upgrade 13 to 14 ASAP. Use this to differentiate from MBAir
- stop selling machines with 128GB SSD that cannot be upgraded. This is 2020, not 2010. Even the iPhone starts at 64GB
- Remove BF keyboards once and for all and offer heavily discounted prices to everyone who wants to go to new unaffected machines because of this. Remember the iPhone 4 antennae gate? it was just one model, one year. This has being going on for almost five years. Other actions must be in place, not just scrap under the mattress with a 4-year replacement program that replaces with same design. Maybe they should offer 4-year replacement options and not repair
- stop the "every year new version" thing on OS. It is not serving us users, so stop it and work on quality
- Reduce BTO options price to market prices. Stop asking the price of the whole component for just a replacement
A user that upgrades because he's excited versus one that is forced are completely different users. Moreover when the upgrades come from "downgraded machines" and it has no compelling reason to buy the new stuff, something is definitely very wrong.
So no Windows for me. Two solutions - go for 13", which I find too small to use standalone anyway or buy a rMPB 15 with iGPU. I went for the latter.
If Apple wants to release a 16 iGPU this year I will analyze it with much interest, if this (for me) stupid idea of cramming a dGPU thinking that the 16 is only for creative audio/video professionals on the era of eGPU continues I really hope my current machine can last forever ?
Apple dropped the ball on users. Poor software. Unreliable keyboards. Unrepairable systems. Cost of acquisition and ownership.
My colleagues at my university are holding to their 2012-2015 machines as long as they can. I am sick of this iphone-priority approach, I still rock a X and hope it will last at least two more years. In my vision Apple has to come up with real innovation to win costumers. This is not 2000s anymore and the "last and best" is not tempting. Especially when the "best for the best" is this.
People want tools that work, they don't want problems. That is why I left Windows 12 years ago, because Apple was creating things that work. I was willing to pay double for the same electronics for this. Now as I write on my trusty 2015 15" model I see no reason to pay premium price for new products that give such headaches to users.
I've seen some on these forums writing about AMD processors. I am not a fan of that approach since we are at this stage because of an AMD chip. I still think Intel has power/thermals advantage even using 14nm. I hope I am wrong and AMD can and will be used on future Apple products. Everybody likes choices.
Stopping the rant, how can Apple present solutions? Here is a couple of approaches to begin with:
- 16" iGPU only or consider the more power-efficient Nvidia chips. Companies exist because clients exist. I've seen Nokia fall because they didn't want to use Android and went for WM. Clients disappeared and so the company from the mobile phone market
- Upgrade 13 to 14 ASAP. Use this to differentiate from MBAir
- stop selling machines with 128GB SSD that cannot be upgraded. This is 2020, not 2010. Even the iPhone starts at 64GB
- Remove BF keyboards once and for all and offer heavily discounted prices to everyone who wants to go to new unaffected machines because of this. Remember the iPhone 4 antennae gate? it was just one model, one year. This has being going on for almost five years. Other actions must be in place, not just scrap under the mattress with a 4-year replacement program that replaces with same design. Maybe they should offer 4-year replacement options and not repair
- stop the "every year new version" thing on OS. It is not serving us users, so stop it and work on quality
- Reduce BTO options price to market prices. Stop asking the price of the whole component for just a replacement
A user that upgrades because he's excited versus one that is forced are completely different users. Moreover when the upgrades come from "downgraded machines" and it has no compelling reason to buy the new stuff, something is definitely very wrong.
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dsTny,
I experienced this thermal issue with both the new MBP 16” (i9, 2.3 ghz, 16 gb ram, 1 tb ssd, 5500m 4gb) and MBP 16 “ (i7, 2.6 ghz, 16 gb ram, 512 ssd, 5300m 4gb). Both units were returned within 14 days. Check for a couple of earlier posts I made that have more details. Hope this helps.
BR
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That's the big question for me. I'm ready to buy but won't until there's a clearer view of the solution.
To me this looks like a logical behavior. The power dissipation increases with the number of screens.
The additional power needed drive the built-in screen with an external monitor must be a driver issue.
It can be fixed, but who knows wether Apple will acknowledge this.
This is my external monitor behaviour:
Through an HDMI adapter (2560x1440, 60hz) I get 18W.
Through a direct USB-C to Displayport cable (2560x1440, 60hz) I get 18W.
With the same cable, but forcing higher refresh rate (2560x1440, 144hz) I get 5W.
How in the world does that make sense? While pushing 2,4x the amount of pixel I burn 1/4 of the power. And since that 18W is the same exact amount of power used by the system while on external + internal, regardless of what is happening on the screen, we're leaning toward the theory that something within the GPU driver is causing it to spike at that usage while there is clearly no need to.