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Camarillo Brillo

macrumors 6502a
Dec 6, 2019
531
525
I want to add that it isn’t only external monitors that are triggering this high power draw thing with the radeons.

I’m also getting massive power draw at the Radeon when I record audio in Logic Pro, only in certain sessions though - others are fine. In two sessions I’m working on radeon pulls between 18-39 watts while in others and when I start a fresh session it pulls only around 2-4 watts.


I have brought this to the attention of apple, spent over an hour on the phone explaining and diagnosing the issue and wound up sending screen recordings of the problem in action, with promises I’d hear back in a few days. I will try to update you all in this thread when I do.
 
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Norbert Mikołajczyk

macrumors 6502
May 26, 2016
346
171
Hi, guys. I have connected an ancient Apple Cinema Display 23'' with max resolution 1920x1200 60Hz.
My Radeon 5500M is constantly using 18W. Fans are ok but it runs hotter, CPU PECI is around 60-66C when writing this. Watch YouTube is also ok.
I use a cheap passive usb-c->dvi-d adapter from amazon.
I wonder, maybe we have those power problems because we are using passive adapters instead of active?
I read that by using the passive adapter, gpu need to convert the signal to DP++ to transmit the signal to DVI/HDMI display. Maybe the active adapters will work better?
Right now I'm afraid to buy newer, higher resolution display...
 

mouthster

macrumors 6502
Apr 22, 2005
298
267
Hi, guys. I have connected an ancient Apple Cinema Display 23'' with max resolution 1920x1200 60Hz.
My Radeon 5500M is constantly using 18W. Fans are ok but it runs hotter, CPU PECI is around 60-66C when writing this. Watch YouTube is also ok.
I use a cheap passive usb-c->dvi-d adapter from amazon.
I wonder, maybe we have those power problems because we are using passive adapters instead of active?
I read that by using the passive adapter, gpu need to convert the signal to DP++ to transmit the signal to DVI/HDMI display. Maybe the active adapters will work better?
Right now I'm afraid to buy newer, higher resolution display...

Are you running it with the lid open? Try clamshell mode and see if the wattage goes down. From my own tests I suspect there is a driver bug where the Radeon will use more wattage (then it should) when it is driving both the laptop display and an external display.
 

niho

macrumors member
Dec 7, 2019
76
109
The issue here is very simple. Stop buying them. When I realized that this problem is gonna exist like forever with dGPU models I had to make a decision. I even considered Windows machines, but from my experience with Windows I am not in the mood to get back to those headaches. Yes, Windows 10 is less bad, but still with time it crushes any hardware you throw at it until you have to format and start fresh.

So no Windows for me. Two solutions - go for 13", which I find too small to use standalone anyway or buy a rMPB 15 with iGPU. I went for the latter.

If Apple wants to release a 16 iGPU this year I will analyze it with much interest, if this (for me) stupid idea of cramming a dGPU thinking that the 16 is only for creative audio/video professionals on the era of eGPU continues I really hope my current machine can last forever ?

Apple dropped the ball on users. Poor software. Unreliable keyboards. Unrepairable systems. Cost of acquisition and ownership.

My colleagues at my university are holding to their 2012-2015 machines as long as they can. I am sick of this iphone-priority approach, I still rock a X and hope it will last at least two more years. In my vision Apple has to come up with real innovation to win costumers. This is not 2000s anymore and the "last and best" is not tempting. Especially when the "best for the best" is this.

People want tools that work, they don't want problems. That is why I left Windows 12 years ago, because Apple was creating things that work. I was willing to pay double for the same electronics for this. Now as I write on my trusty 2015 15" model I see no reason to pay premium price for new products that give such headaches to users.

I've seen some on these forums writing about AMD processors. I am not a fan of that approach since we are at this stage because of an AMD chip. I still think Intel has power/thermals advantage even using 14nm. I hope I am wrong and AMD can and will be used on future Apple products. Everybody likes choices.

Stopping the rant, how can Apple present solutions? Here is a couple of approaches to begin with:
- 16" iGPU only or consider the more power-efficient Nvidia chips. Companies exist because clients exist. I've seen Nokia fall because they didn't want to use Android and went for WM. Clients disappeared and so the company from the mobile phone market
- Upgrade 13 to 14 ASAP. Use this to differentiate from MBAir
- stop selling machines with 128GB SSD that cannot be upgraded. This is 2020, not 2010. Even the iPhone starts at 64GB
- Remove BF keyboards once and for all and offer heavily discounted prices to everyone who wants to go to new unaffected machines because of this. Remember the iPhone 4 antennae gate? it was just one model, one year. This has being going on for almost five years. Other actions must be in place, not just scrap under the mattress with a 4-year replacement program that replaces with same design. Maybe they should offer 4-year replacement options and not repair
- stop the "every year new version" thing on OS. It is not serving us users, so stop it and work on quality
- Reduce BTO options price to market prices. Stop asking the price of the whole component for just a replacement

A user that upgrades because he's excited versus one that is forced are completely different users. Moreover when the upgrades come from "downgraded machines" and it has no compelling reason to buy the new stuff, something is definitely very wrong.
I agree. Stop buying them, and this will force Apple to fix things.
I got the maxed out 16" Macbook Pro to replace my maxed out 2012 iMac + Macbook Air setup. But the problems with heat & noise forced me to return it. Now i'm planning to use my existing setup as long as possible (4k video edit is the main issue), then I'm planning to get the cehapest 13" Macbook Pro and build a Ryzen desktop hacktintosh; for less then what I paid for the 16" MBP.
PS: I think GPU is not the only chip to blame. From what I've seen, Thunderbolt PECI is getting very hot the moment you connect the a monitor.
 

valentinjesse

macrumors newbie
Jul 29, 2017
18
37
If only there was better mouse/external display support for the Ipad Pro, i would have probably bought one by now and ditch the MacBook Pro (15" 2017), as it's been a disaster so far. I heard that the newer ones are even louder.

Watching any Youtube video at 720p and above triggers the fans. Icloud sync triggers the fans. Dropbox triggers the fans. Terminal activity triggers the fans. In fact, the only situation where the fans are not triggered is when i'm looking at my desktop or at static websites. I truly hate this device, and to think that I had to pay almost 4 thousand euros for it :oops: Tried disabling Turbo Boost and controlling my fans with 3rd party software, but to no avail. In fact, with Mac Fan controllers, there's only a matter of time until the entire OS hangs with kernel_task taking 500%+ of the CPU in the Activity Monitor. It's clear that Apple doesn't want you do override these settings.

Was thinking about buying a long charging cable (if that exists) and move the laptop into another room where it can continue to act like an airplane or maybe I should try my luck with an eGPU ?
 
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niho

macrumors member
Dec 7, 2019
76
109
In fact, with Mac Fan controllers, there's only a matter of time until the entire OS hangs with kernel_task taking 500% of the CPU.
Yes, exactly this ?
Slowing the fans manually,or dynamically using CPU temps, causing throttle after a while. In my case caused by Thunderbolt PECI temperatures, I reckon.
 

Niceguy001

macrumors newbie
Dec 27, 2016
2
0
Hi Guys,
I am not sure if this is an issue, I have a brand new 16" MBP and using an external display connect via USB-C - HDMI cable. While using the external display, MBP is in clamshell mode and I put my computer to sleep, next day I still can hear the fans running even though it's overnight and external display is in sleeping mode and MBP in clamshell mode. Once I remove the USB-C - HDMI cable, the fans shut off in minute. This never happen to my older MBP. The MBP is not hot but fans can't be running while monitors are off (sleep mode).

I have another issue that in in awhile, my MBP restart by itself while in sleep mode, i know it because when i wake up my mac next day, it's asking me to log in with password instead of using the finger scan or apple watch to unlock. (not always though, once in a while)
 

CMMChris

macrumors 6502a
Oct 28, 2019
850
794
Germany (Bavaria)
This Navi bug also affects PC cards like the RX 5700 XT. I already reported this bug to Apple since early Navi support which was before the MBP16 launch. I kept updating the report until the final release of 10.15.3. Apple never even responded to the report. I heard the same from others. Looks like they don't even care.
 

MrGunnyPT

macrumors 65816
Mar 23, 2017
1,313
804
This Navi bug also affects PC cards like the RX 5700 XT. I already reported this bug to Apple since early Navi support which was before the MBP16 launch. I kept updating the report until the final release of 10.15.3. Apple never even responded to the report. I heard the same from others. Looks like they don't even care.
Wait all this issues are Navi related bugs?
 

magbarn

macrumors 68040
Oct 25, 2008
3,035
2,406
Wait all this issues are Navi related bugs?
Yes I posted a graph earlier showing much higher power draw with desktop Navi cards vs their nvidia equivalents when driving multiple monitors. This might be a hardware problem with no fix.
 

CMMChris

macrumors 6502a
Oct 28, 2019
850
794
Germany (Bavaria)
It's not a hardware problem. This issue is not present on Linux or Adrenalin 2019 drivers on Windows. However, Adrenalin 2020 drivers show the same behavior on Windows now. I guess there is something wrong with the code package provided by AMD.
 

Camarillo Brillo

macrumors 6502a
Dec 6, 2019
531
525
I want to add that it isn’t only external monitors that are triggering this high power draw thing with the radeons.

I’m also getting massive power draw at the Radeon when I record audio in Logic Pro, only in certain sessions though - others are fine. In two sessions I’m working on radeon pulls between 18-39 watts while in others and when I start a fresh session it pulls only around 2-4 watts.


I have brought this to the attention of apple, spent over an hour on the phone explaining and diagnosing the issue and wound up sending screen recordings of the problem in action, with promises I’d hear back in a few days. I will try to update you all in this thread when I do.
Well, Apple got back to me.
They said it’s normal and intended behavior. So now I’m done with the MacBook Pro. I hope they’ll let me do a late exchange for an iMac. I don’t want to deal with this things issues anymore. I have a feeling they might work with me since I want to exchange. Or probably I’m screwed.
 
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Appledoesnotlisten

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Dec 2, 2017
505
208
Really? Intended behavior? In that case, why don't Vega cards do this? Makes no sense to me.
Because acknowledging the problem is a suicide for them. It will mean that they are shipping a faulty notebook.

I think that if this is truly a hardware bug, we will get a refresh ASAP.
 
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niho

macrumors member
Dec 7, 2019
76
109
Because acknowledging the problem is a subside for them. It will mean that they are shipping a faulty notebook.

I think that if this is truly a hardware bug, we will get a refresh ASAP.
I agree, I expect a silent late 2020 16" refresh when they release the new 13 or 14"
 

richinaus

macrumors 68020
Oct 26, 2014
2,432
2,187
Just got my egpu set up [Razer core x and radeon pro w5700] upto the 4K lg 24”, and all I can say is this set up is perfect. The sound levels are great (nothing from the MacBookpro) and a barely audible sound from the fans on the egpu [and I am very sensisitive to fan noise as I cant stand it]. best Tech decision I have ever made.
btw this is all with maxing the eGPU at 100% as I do real time rendering.
 

Norbert Mikołajczyk

macrumors 6502
May 26, 2016
346
171
Are you running it with the lid open? Try clamshell mode and see if the wattage goes down. From my own tests I suspect there is a driver bug where the Radeon will use more wattage (then it should) when it is driving both the laptop display and an external display.
No changes with Lid Closed or Open, it draws the same amount of W.
I tested some new monitor 2560x1440 with usb-c port and the power usage is the same...
 

magbarn

macrumors 68040
Oct 25, 2008
3,035
2,406
Just got my egpu set up [Razer core x and radeon pro w5700] upto the 4K lg 24”, and all I can say is this set up is perfect. The sound levels are great (nothing from the MacBookpro) and a barely audible sound from the fans on the egpu [and I am very sensisitive to fan noise as I cant stand it]. best Tech decision I have ever made.
btw this is all with maxing the eGPU at 100% as I do real time rendering.
That's a $1000+ sledgehammer solution to this problem. Apple needs to dump AMD and go back to Nvidia... I'm keeping mine as I use my iMac for longer rendering larger monitor needs....
 
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themcfly

macrumors regular
Jul 20, 2011
144
272
Has anyone had the chance to test temperatures and wattages on Boot Camp? It wouldn't surprise me if it ran better/cooler on Windows, where maybe we have actual Radeon drivers.

Also, it would be a nice lead for some news websites to title "The new 16" MacBook Pro runs better on Windows than MacOS", which at this point it seems is the only way to make Apple fix something.
 

niho

macrumors member
Dec 7, 2019
76
109
Has anyone had the chance to test temperatures and wattages on Boot Camp? It wouldn't surprise me if it ran better/cooler on Windows, where maybe we have actual Radeon drivers.

Also, it would be a nice lead for some news websites to title "The new 16" MacBook Pro runs better on Windows than MacOS", which at this point it seems is the only way to make Apple fix something.
I couldn't, because I was not able to find a program that is able to show the info. None of the popular ones worked with 16" Mbp on bootcamp.
I think latest version of macfancontrol may be updated to work on bootcamp.
But, it clearly throttled after 10 mins when I play demanding 3d games. (4k Lg Monitor connected via displayport)
 
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