(2019) 16" is HOT & NOISY with an external monitor! :(

[gsbabil]

Clamshell mode using 2560x1440 monitor doesn't make any difference on beta 6. Shame. Gonna buy eGPU because I simply hate that using simple Safari is triggering fans so high.


View attachment 900092

I don't have the same experience of ~20 W Radeon power draw in clamshell mode. More details below. Thanks.

# 10.15.4 Beta 6 (19E264b) - Clamshell Mode

• Radeon High Side: ~7 W

My previous test results were mostly with open-lid-no-clamshell mode.

I did some quick tests under the clamshell mode with Catalina 10.15.4 Beta 6 today, and my results are similar to @mouthster's results as described here.

More details on my set-up is here. In short, my external screen is a DELL P2415Q used with: 2560 x 1440 (Retina) @ 30Hz. Thanks.


## Summary - Catalina 10.15.4 Beta 6 (19E264b)

MODE	RADEON HIGH SIDE (W)	FAN-SPEED (RPM)	NOISE-LEVEL
Clamshell​	~7 W​	~1800 RPM​	BEARABLE​
Open-lid​	~20 W​	~4200 RPM​	NOISY​

Thank you.
[automerge]1584914012[/automerge]

So im really curious, for those that didnt sell or downgrade to an older macbook pro, how did most of you live with this issue? The fans are annoying but my main concern is if the heat and the constant running fans will affect my mbp in the long run...

I think most people here are living with one of the followings:

1. Don't use an external screen (work with on the MBP-2019 screen)
2. Use external screen but close the MBP-2019's lid (clamshell mode)

Basically, MBP-2019 gets too hot and noisy (even in Catalina 10.15.4 Beta 6) when using _both_ the MBP-2019 Retina display with external display(s).

Thank you.

 

[30jafl1[3]

Some of your expectations for the thermal performance of the laptop are unrealistic. I had the MBP 16" for a couple of weeks and sent mine back because of crashes. However, I thought the thermals were improved in some ways.

I'm using a 2016 MBP 15" connected to a 5K display while I wait for the replacement. Just using basic apps. No video running. I'm seeing temps around 70C for CPU Die and fans at 4.5K RPM. That's a little on the high side, but not abnormal. This computer has always run like that. When I bought it, I confirmed at the Apple Store that other identical machines exhibited the same behavior. I've had the computer for 3 1/2 years. Nothing has melted.

It's true that the GPU on the MBP 15" pulls less wattage than the 16". I agree that the 16" GPU seems inefficient. But those of you who are complaining about fans at ~2000 RPM are just setting yourselves up for disappointment. That's not high. The fans on the MBP 16" also run significantly more silently at higher RPM than past models.

There are a lot of problems with the MBP 16". In some cases it seems your fans are running really high relative to load. But there are also some commenters who seem to think laptop fans should hardly run, and the internals should still stay perfectly cool. That's unreasonable.

 

[MrGunnyPT]

I don't have the same experience of ~20 W Radeon power draw in clamshell mode. More details below. Thanks.

# 10.15.4 Beta 6 (19E264b) - Clamshell Mode

• Radeon High Side: ~7 W

My previous test results were mostly with open-lid-no-clamshell mode.

I did some quick tests under the clamshell mode with Catalina 10.15.4 Beta 6 today, and my results are similar to @mouthster's results as described here.

More details on my set-up is here. In short, my external screen is a DELL P2415Q used with: 2560 x 1440 (Retina) @ 30Hz. Thanks.


## Summary - Catalina 10.15.4 Beta 6 (19E264b)

MODE	RADEON HIGH SIDE (W)	FAN-SPEED (RPM)	NOISE
Clamshell	~7 W	~1800 RPM	BEARABLE
Open-lid	~20 W	~4200 RPM	NOISY

Thank you.
[automerge]1584914012[/automerge]


I think most people here are living with one of the followings:

1. Don't use an external screen (work with on the MBP-2019 screen)
2. Use external screen but close the MBP-2019's lid (clamshell mode)

Basically, MBP-2019 gets too hot and noisy (even in Catalina 10.15.4 Beta 6) when using _both_ the MBP-2019 Retina display with external display(s).

Thank you.

I'm not pushing the GPU harder in the following print screens however I managed to keep my temps around 53c.

I have started working on Citrix to avoid additional pushing this hardware hard.

 

[silvetti]

Created an account so i can participate in this discussion.

Same exact problem like everyone else here, fans goes to 4000 rpm and mac gets really hot just by watching youtube videos on external monitor. Doesn't seem like there is much of a solution on this thread.

So im really curious, for those that didnt sell or downgrade to an older macbook pro, how did most of you live with this issue? The fans are annoying but my main concern is if the heat and the constant running fans will affect my mbp in the long run...

I basically gave up on using the laptop screen + external and use only the external with the laptop in clamshell mode (fancy way of saying closed). That way I get only 5-6w usage from the Radeon card and no more high temps or fast spinning fan noise.
[automerge]1584953006[/automerge]

Some of your expectations for the thermal performance of the laptop are unrealistic. I had the MBP 16" for a couple of weeks and sent mine back because of crashes. However, I thought the thermals were improved in some ways.

I'm using a 2016 MBP 15" connected to a 5K display while I wait for the replacement. Just using basic apps. No video running. I'm seeing temps around 70C for CPU Die and fans at 4.5K RPM. That's a little on the high side, but not abnormal. This computer has always run like that. When I bought it, I confirmed at the Apple Store that other identical machines exhibited the same behavior. I've had the computer for 3 1/2 years. Nothing has melted.

It's true that the GPU on the MBP 15" pulls less wattage than the 16". I agree that the 16" GPU seems inefficient. But those of you who are complaining about fans at ~2000 RPM are just setting yourselves up for disappointment. That's not high. The fans on the MBP 16" also run significantly more silently at higher RPM than past models.

There are a lot of problems with the MBP 16". In some cases it seems your fans are running really high relative to load. But there are also some commenters who seem to think laptop fans should hardly run, and the internals should still stay perfectly cool. That's unreasonable.

View attachment 900575

I think you are missing the point here.
This is my Macbook doing basic work connected to a 4K LG 27UL850 monitor and in clamshell mode (lid closed).

The main issue is with dGPU watt usage for basically doing NOTHING.
Here is same workload but also opening the laptop screen:

 

[30jafl1[3]

I think you are missing the point here.

-------------
I'm well aware of the issue. The card isn't "doing nothing." It's powering two displays with the computer open.

Here's what I said before: "I agree that the 16" GPU seems inefficient. But those of you who are complaining about fans at ~2000 RPM are just setting yourselves up for disappointment. That's not high. The fans on the MBP 16" also run significantly more silently at higher RPM than past models."

That's all true. Your fans aren't running high. They're running much slower and quieter than my 2016 MBP doing the same thing.
[automerge]1584956113[/automerge]
Also, the 14W difference isn't all that much in the grand scheme of things. Look at top end mobile graphics cards. The RTX 2070 Max-Q and 2080 Max-Q are designed to pull 80 or 90W depending on variant. Any laptop (especially thin and light) with a powerful GPU is going to get hot, require significant fan cooling, and eventually throttle.

Again, there are problems with the MBP 16". I sent mine back for replacement. But some people here seem to think their machines should do magic.

 

[MrGunnyPT]

Anyone having an issue where the fans restart for a second in either of the 3 modes you use?

As in the fan stops for a second and then starts up again.

 

[silvetti]

-------------
I'm well aware of the issue. The card isn't "doing nothing." It's powering two displays with the computer open.

Here's what I said before: "I agree that the 16" GPU seems inefficient. But those of you who are complaining about fans at ~2000 RPM are just setting yourselves up for disappointment. That's not high. The fans on the MBP 16" also run significantly more silently at higher RPM than past models."

That's all true. Your fans aren't running high. They're running much slower and quieter than my 2016 MBP doing the same thing.
[automerge]1584956113[/automerge]
Also, the 14W difference isn't all that much in the grand scheme of things. Look at top end mobile graphics cards. The RTX 2070 Max-Q and 2080 Max-Q are designed to pull 80 or 90W depending on variant. Any laptop (especially thin and light) with a powerful GPU is going to get hot, require significant fan cooling, and eventually throttle.

Again, there are problems with the MBP 16". I sent mine back for replacement. But some people here seem to think their machines should do magic.

I just expect that when my computer is IDLE the fans are IDLE.
That's it.
All my other laptops and computers work like that.
Also just because you are used to running your laptop fans at 4000rpm does not make it normal.

 

[shaunp]

I received a base 16" today and am disappointed because it get's as hot as my 2017 with an external 4K monitor.

Is anybody else experiencing the same issue? I always work with external monitors and running on high resolution and this heating performance is upsetting. It's not cooler than the 2017 version in this respects.

Can you guys share your thoughts on this?

Thanks a lot!

I had two MPB's a 2010 and a 2012 rMBP both have massive fan issues when used for long periods with an external monitor to the point where my customers actually asked me to turn them off. Both laptops suffered GPU failures before the end of the apple care period, and this was with just HD monitors not 4K and all I was doing was running a VM on the second screen with a business app, no high-end graphics.

What got me though was Apples response to this - basically they could no nothing, and even went as far as telling me I bought the wrong product. The Apple Store in Kingston were utterly useless, but a 3rd party replaced the logic board on my rMBP under warranty. A couple of months later it started doing the same thing so I got repaired again and I subsequently sold it and bought a ThinkPad.

I've used many PC laptops since then with multiple monitors, including dual 4k monitors, and none of them have had an issue. Apple need to acknowledge the laws of physics and stop making laptops that are so thin they don't allow for proper cooling and air flow. To be fair this isn't just an Apple issue, the XPS 15 is just as bad as are a lot of ultrabooks, but Apple started this trend so they can start another one back to proper laptops with decent cooling and some usable ports. As things stand I wouldn't use any of their current laptops for work as I know they will break and their support is very poor.

 

[Grammar1]

Has anyone had any luck with a straight HDMI connection through one of those little USBC Docks?

I'm getting 20w even in clamshell mode. 1440p @60hz. Dell U2715H. Both through the dock and with a HDMI to UBSC cable.

Is it possible a Displayport to USBC connection will help?


I'd rather not throw good money after bad if the monitor is always going to give trouble.

 

[gsbabil]

-------------
I'm well aware of the issue. The card isn't "doing nothing." It's powering two displays with the computer open.

Here's what I said before: "I agree that the 16" GPU seems inefficient. But those of you who are complaining about fans at ~2000 RPM are just setting yourselves up for disappointment. That's not high. The fans on the MBP 16" also run significantly more silently at higher RPM than past models."

That's all true. Your fans aren't running high. They're running much slower and quieter than my 2016 MBP doing the same thing.
[automerge]1584956113[/automerge]
Also, the 14W difference isn't all that much in the grand scheme of things. Look at top end mobile graphics cards. The RTX 2070 Max-Q and 2080 Max-Q are designed to pull 80 or 90W depending on variant. Any laptop (especially thin and light) with a powerful GPU is going to get hot, require significant fan cooling, and eventually throttle.

Again, there are problems with the MBP 16". I sent mine back for replacement. But some people here seem to think their machines should do magic.

>> But there are also some commenters who seem to think laptop fans should hardly run, and the internals should still stay perfectly cool. That's unreasonable.

>> But those of you who are complaining about fans at ~2000 RPM are just setting yourselves up for disappointment.

I don't think this is what most people here are complaining about.

The key issue seems to be around the fact that Radeon 5300/5500 in MBP-2019 immediately starts drawing ~19W in open-lid mode, irrespective of the number of external screens attached, which eventually leads to the noisy fan scenario (RPM of ~4200-4500).

>> Also, the 14W difference isn't all that much in the grand scheme of things.

~19W power draw (that leads to this noisy fan scenario) in the Radeon GPU in IDLE mode is not the same behavior observed in the previous MBP's with dGPU. For example, you could review the discussions and results with MBP-2017 with dGPU here and here.

What's more puzzling is - when people connected 2 external screens, and kept the MBP-2019 in closed-lid/clamshell mode, Radeon power draw is around ~5W (and not surprisingly, no noisy fan). You could review the results here.

So, there's a consensus that this is related to buggy AMD/Radeon GPU driver(s) for the MBP-2019 model which Apple could acknowledge and offer fixes for - if they were that kind of a company.

Thank you.

 

[gsbabil]

Would you still run everything to get your money out of the touchbar/speakers/Retina display/fingerprint sensor or would you clamshell it to lower the taxi on the laptop?

I'm using the laptop without the external screen most of the time.

It sucks because I can't use the Dell 4K screen standing right in front of me because I work in a fairly quiet room and the fan noise is rather unpleasant specially when the laptop (MBP-2019) is basically IDLE (no heavy processing on the dGPU).

I can live without the Touch-ID and Touch-Bar. The forced compromise on the extra screen real-estate is where most of my pain lies in.

Thanks.

 

[Jinzen]

I'm using the laptop without the external screen most of the time.

It sucks because I can't use the Dell 4K screen standing right in front of me because I work in a fairly quiet room and the fan noise is rather unpleasant specially when the laptop (MBP-2019) is basically IDLE (no heavy processing on the dGPU).

I can live without the Touch-ID and Touch-Bar. The forced compromise on the extra screen real-estate is where most of my pain lies in.

Thanks.

I have a 15" 2018, Core i9 and the computer is dead silent with 4k external monitor and doing light stuff, both monitors on. The fans are on base (around 25k) speed consistently.

 

[gsbabil]

Has anyone had any luck with a straight HDMI connection through one of those little USBC Docks?

I'm getting 20w even in clamshell mode. 1440p @60hz. Dell U2715H. Both through the dock and with a HDMI to UBSC cable.

Is it possible a Displayport to USBC connection will help?

I'd rather not throw good money after bad if the monitor is always going to give trouble.

The issue being discussed seems to be resolution, refresh-rate and connecting cable agnostic.

See the results here and here. Thanks.
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I have a 15" 2018, Core i9 and the computer is dead silent with 4k external monitor and doing light stuff, both monitors on. The fans are on base (around 25k) speed consistently.

View attachment 900807

I envy you. Enjoy your machine (MBP-2018 15")!

• For others, MBP-2018 15" seems to be using AMD Radeon Pro 560X GPU with 4GB of memory.
• "Radeon High Side" power draw at around ~9W seems to correlate with the generated heat and fan RPM.

 

[30jafl1[3]

I just expect that when my computer is IDLE the fans are IDLE.
That's it.
All my other laptops and computers work like that.
Also just because you are used to running your laptop fans at 4000rpm does not make it normal.

It's normal for the 2016 model connected to a display. As others have reported here, later MBP models also run hot. It seems normal for the 2019 model, too. There are some cases reported here where it seems the 2019 model is misbehaving, but I don't see evidence of that in your post.

Desktop computers are different because there's ample open space for components and fans. I have no idea what "other laptops" you're talking about since you fail to list them. As I said, it's not abnormal for laptops with high-performing GPU's to run hot.

 

[AMTYVLE]

I have a 16" MBP. Now that I'm working from home until further notice I really needed an external monitor. I just ordered this one from Newegg: https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16824025119?Item=N82E16824025119

I'll be connected it through a USB-C Hub via HDMI cable tomorrow when it arrives. Will my MBP have this "hot & noisy" issue with this monitor? I'll mostly be using it with Windows 10 through Bootcamp.

 

[silvetti]

It's normal for the 2016 model connected to a display. As others have reported here, later MBP models also run hot. It seems normal for the 2019 model, too. There are some cases reported here where it seems the 2019 model is misbehaving, but I don't see evidence of that in your post.

Desktop computers are different because there's ample open space for components and fans. I have no idea what "other laptops" you're talking about since you fail to list them. As I said, it's not abnormal for laptops with high-performing GPU's to run hot.

You just missed my (and this thread's point).
Issue is Radeon using 20W just by having laptop screen and one external display connected and doing nothing VS just the external being around 5W.
I am not arguing that GPU's run hot or not.
[automerge]1585051011[/automerge]

I have a 16" MBP. Now that I'm working from home until further notice I really needed an external monitor. I just ordered this one from Newegg: https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16824025119?Item=N82E16824025119

I'll be connected it through a USB-C Hub via HDMI cable tomorrow when it arrives. Will my MBP have this "hot & noisy" issue with this monitor? I'll mostly be using it with Windows 10 through Bootcamp.

If you use it JUST with the external as in clamshell mode you should be fine.

 

[30jafl1[3]

You just missed my (and this thread's point).
Issue is Radeon using 20W just by having laptop screen and one external display connected and doing nothing VS just the external being around 5W.
I am not arguing that GPU's run hot or not.
[automerge]1585051011[/automerge]

The thread's title is literally "16 is hot and noisy with an external monitor." That's my last reply to you.

 

[davidbend]

Catalina 10.15.4 - No change!
So disappointing. I think that we gave Apple enough credit, and something have to be done. We can't just wait for Apple to make any change, because they won't.
My suggestions:
1. Send tons of feedbacks every day.
2. Comment in every review video on youtube about this issue, especially in the official videos of Apple. We need popular YouTubers to stand with us in this fight.
3. Call the support, and start a chat conversation about the issue at least once a week.

 

[gsbabil]

Anyone having an issue where the fans restart for a second in either of the 3 modes you use?

As in the fan stops for a second and then starts up again.

I don't have this issue in my MBP-2019.

To clarify further, I haven't manually altered the fan profiles and using what Catalina does by default.

Did you modify your fan profiles? For example, you could change them with iStat Menus (screenshot below).

Please let us know. Thank you.

[automerge]1585080285[/automerge]

I have a 16" MBP. Now that I'm working from home until further notice I really needed an external monitor. I just ordered this one from Newegg: https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16824025119?Item=N82E16824025119

I'll be connected it through a USB-C Hub via HDMI cable tomorrow when it arrives. Will my MBP have this "hot & noisy" issue with this monitor? I'll mostly be using it with Windows 10 through Bootcamp.

- You'll very likely have the "hot and noisy" issue if are using both the MBP-2019 screen _and_ the external monitor.

- You should be fine if you close the MBP-2019 screen (put it in clamshell mode) and _only_ use the external monitor. This mode requires additional mouse, keyboard, and sacrifices the MBP-2019's built-in touch-bar and Touch-ID sensors.

Some more details here. Hope this helps. Thanks!

 

[Hustler1337]

Can't believe these problems still exist with the MacBook lineup. I have a 2011 MBP and it (along with other generations) have had issues with GPU failure - an issue commonly accelerated through connecting to an external monitor. I'd put in my two cents and say avoid using it with this setup frequently unless you want to experience premature death of your MBP.

I'm sure Apple have optimised their thermal management over the years but their thin design profile just means their constantly pushing limits between perfomance and aesthetics and users have to put up with hotter and noisier machines.

 

[Tnanman]

I, like others here, hoped the 10.15.4 update would resolve or minimize the issue, but it hasn't seemed to have changed anything, unfortunately.

 

[harrisonjr98]

Man... had super high hopes for 10.15.4 addressing this. Machine is going back for now- hoping for a 14" MBP (+eGPU) or an iMac refresh soon I guess.

 

[pneves1975]

Catalina 10.15.4 - No change!
So disappointing. I think that we gave Apple enough credit, and something have to be done. We can't just wait for Apple to make any change, because they won't.
My suggestions:
1. Send tons of feedbacks every day.
2. Comment in every review video on youtube about this issue, especially in the official videos of Apple. We need popular YouTubers to stand with us in this fight.
3. Call the support, and start a chat conversation about the issue at least once a week.

4. Buy another computer, e. g., wait for 13/14 with iGPU. No software will ever change this much, it's an hardware issue!

 

[x3sphere]

I upgraded to a 38GL950G monitor recently and I found my MBP's 5500M will now draw 19W even in clamshell mode. Fans are now quite loud. Bummer On my 34GK950F it didn't, even at high refresh rates.

Anyone know if using an eGPU avoids the issue? I assume it'll go back to the idle wattage if I connect the external monitor to an eGPU.

 

[bsbeamer]

What SPECIFICALLY do you want to know about eGPU and MBP16,1? Not yet installed .4 update but have eGPU with RX5700XT.