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(2019) 16" is HOT & NOISY with an external monitor! :(
- Thread starter Appledoesnotlisten
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Only if you connect the external display to an eGPU. With the razer core X chroma and sapphire pulse Rx 5500 xt I get the minimum fan speed (around 1800rpm) for most of the day, unless I do something CPU intensive where it can vary between 2500 and 3500rpm. This also allows the CPU to generally run faster.Sorry if this info is buried somewhere in this thread. I’ve only read about 10 of the pages. Is there any 16 inch configuration that seems to avoid the heat issues when plugged into an external monitor and lid is open?
As a windows user I think those RPMs and temps are normal compared to all the gaming laptops I've had so far XD, I guess that's why windows users don't complain I'm so used to have noisy and hot laptops that battery cannot even last 1 hour and the horrible performance when unplugged.. I recently got a MBP 13 late 17 and loved it so I purchased a MBP 16 it has still not arrived but I'm done with windows machines after 20 years
Just to confirm, there's no sweetspot of a config with an i7 vs i9 or 5300 vs 5500 that keeps the heat down?
Thanks for the recommendation on the eGPU setup. I'll check it out. And I liked your post comparing the 16 and 15. I have that same LG monitor.
at least you guys have external monitors, this Benq and lg 32 I have been wanting Is sold out everywhere
Do you have any more info about the process of replacing the fans? I have the other components on order but would be interested in making everything as quiet as possible.
Me. And I love it. i7/32GB
Powers my 2x 4k monitors naively just fine. Can even edit 4k footage. No panics. No excessive fan spin when idling, it actually stays really surprisingly cool, might be due to the 10nm. Only hitting 98c when pushing all 4 cores to 100% which is expected
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--How reliable is the Razer Core X Chroma as a dock?
-Any issues waking from sleep?
-Any issues with monitors going to sleep?
-Do you need to power off the eGPU or does it go to sleep with the MacBook?
-Do you need to wake the Mac and eject the eGPU before pulling the chord?
I watched this video
I used the same Noctua replacement fans as shown in the video. Both have a short cable that you can route from the 80mm fan out of the PSU with all the other PSU cables.
The chassis fan is still powered from the motherboard fan header, just like the original.
You can power both from there with a splitter, but the motherboard fan header will stop the fans when the MBP is off (e.g. charging). Probably fine, but I think it's best to keep the PSU fan spinning always like the original.
My graphics card (Sapphire Pulse RX 5500 XT) only needs one PCIe 6/8-pin power cable, so there's one spare in the Core X. I got this cable https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/PCIe-Gr...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649 to power the PSU fan from there to avoid any soldering. I only needed 1 extra fan header and this cable has 6, but it's the only PCIe to 3 pin fan cable I could find.
The guy in the YouTube video above soldered a 3 pin fan cable to the motherboard to provide full time power. Another guy in this Reddit post found solder points inside the PSU:
I prefer the PCIe to 3 pin fan cable to keep things otherwise stock and completely reversible.
No issues with the Razer Core X Chroma, yet. I use the USB ports for 2x Samsung T5 SSDs which appear to run at full speed or very close to it, a wireless charging pad for my iPhone (macOS complains that it uses too much power, but it seems to work fine), and the LG monitor which itself has 2 more USB ports which I use for lightning/micro-USB cables.
There are quirks though.
You do have to click a menubar icon to disconnect the eGPU before you unplug, and this will quit and relaunch any apps that are using the eGPU. In reality, many apps still use the iGPU and dGPU (but without the excessive power draw) so it's not a big deal for me so far.
For GPU intensive apps, you can explicitly set them to use the eGPU. Or you can set the external display as the primary display, because apps default to the primary display's GPU. But I don't like this because it moves all your app windows from the internal display to the external when you connect, and has to quit more apps when you disconnect.
It's great having only a single cable to plug in to get 100W power, external display(s) and USB 3.1 gen 1 (no gen 2 unfortunately) for external disks, and no excessive fan noise or heat in the laptop, and optimal CPU performance due to increased thermal capacity for CPU cooling and CPU power delivery.
I put the machine to sleep every night. The eGPU appears to enter a sleep mode, but the PSU fan still spins. The stock one is not very loud, but the Noctua is practically silent. I had no trouble sleeping with either. Have not noticed any issues waking from sleep.
You do need to disconnect via menubar icon before yanking the cable. I have yanked the cable a few times with unpredictable results. Usually just apps that are using it crash or quit, but one time the whole machine crashed.
I do not use the ethernet port, but I have heard others have had trouble with that.
If you can afford it, I think it's a great solution which improves not only GPU but also CPU performance and improves fan noise and heat, and has replaced my old TB3 dock which would not have provided enough power for the 16" MBP, anyway with a single cable.
Thanks a lot for taking the time to put this together. I’m still undecided... I don’t really NEED that much GPU power. But nonetheless the incite helps my confidence if i do go down that path.
No one has posted a configuration like that. Some have reported lower fan speeds, but the power draw is always around 20 W.
I need barely *any* GPU power, so I totally understand the sentiment. That's why I got the cheapest supported RDNA (7nm) graphics card, which is probably on par with the dGPU I already have or just a tiny bit faster. It's relatively low power (it is still a desktop card, though) and basically silent. I only ever occasionally hear the fans spin up for a few seconds and then off again. It is reported to be quiet even under load, not that I ever generate enough load to know.
I really just need to drive the display and do video conferencing. I agree it's absurd to need an eGPU simply to disable or work-around the dGPU issues for non-GPU intensive workloads.
But on the flip side, I definitely prefer 8 cores over 4. That's a significant difference, for me. And the 16" screen over the 13" is really nice as a 2nd screen or main screen on the go, and even the bigger palm rests are just more comfortable for me. With my old 13", I found my wrists were always right on the sharp edge of the palm rest and became callused. And with the GPU load offloaded, the CPUs can sustain higher frequencies under load, and light to medium workloads generate much less heat and fan noise. Plus the convenience of having one cable for 100W power, 4x USB ports and external display(s).
Most monitors only provide max 87W, so unless you already have a TB3 dock that provides 100W and you want a one cable solution without any battery drain, you'll already be spending a couple hundred on a dock that you could put towards the eGPU.
So there is a fair bit more going for the eGPU than just working around the dGPU issues, and those things all apply to non-GPU intensive workloads.
Downsides are really just the cost, waiting to "disconnect" before unplugging, and some apps being relaunched on disconnect. I wish it also had a daisy chain TB3 port, and a dedicated QC3.0 USB port for the wireless charging pad, though.
That makes a lot of sense, especially around the spending a few hundred on TB3 dock anyway to provide 100w (not that many of them actually do right now).
Just how much plug and play is it with apps that don't leverage the 'use eGPU' feature? Do they still get the benefit?
How about Bootcamp? I don't game often but sometimes play a few 5 year old games that I'd prefer could take advantage of it.
Just how much plug and play is it with apps that don't leverage the 'use eGPU' feature? Do they still get the benefit?
How about Bootcamp? I don't game often but sometimes play a few 5 year old games that I'd prefer could take advantage of it.
It's disappointing the only "solution" to this issue is to spend $500-1000 on an eGPU dock/card
I've heard so many people online complaining about reliability/crashes/restart/sleep issues when using the eGPU. Even when using Windows/bootcamp it's supposed to be very fussy when it comes to drivers and the version of Windows used.
I've heard so many people online complaining about reliability/crashes/restart/sleep issues when using the eGPU. Even when using Windows/bootcamp it's supposed to be very fussy when it comes to drivers and the version of Windows used.
Just to report. My new monitor arrived today. I had actually ordered this before getting in contact with Apple support about returning the device. Don't ask me why, I think being past the 14 day return I thought fat chance. But ended up having some time free to call them and thought I'd give it a try too.
The monitor is an ASUS TUF VG27AQ. As expected, in comparison to my Dell which was locked at 58.88 Hz. Running this one at 120 Hz stops the wattage issue. Sadly you can't have the Macbook open as others have described, otherwise the issue returns.
Going to also try making my own custom 60 Hz resolution in SwitchResX on my Ultrasharp tonight also out of interest.
The monitor is an ASUS TUF VG27AQ. As expected, in comparison to my Dell which was locked at 58.88 Hz. Running this one at 120 Hz stops the wattage issue. Sadly you can't have the Macbook open as others have described, otherwise the issue returns.
Going to also try making my own custom 60 Hz resolution in SwitchResX on my Ultrasharp tonight also out of interest.
From what I can see, the benefit is not in having all or many apps use the eGPU. In fact I still prefer that most still use either iGPU or dGPU to avoid having them quit when I unplug. The benefit is in having the dGPU NOT consume ~20W as a baseline, allowing more thermal headroom and power for the CPU and lower heat and fan noise at medium workloads.
But configuring apps to specifically use the eGPU (e.g. if they are GPU intensive) seems to be very straightforward.
I don't do boot camp or PC gaming at all, so can't help with that, sorry.
After a fresh installation of 10.15.5 with only a few apple store apps installed, it continues crashing when it goes to sleep. Only happens when MBP16 is plugged into a external monitor (clamshell), in laptop mode it seems to work fine.
Same results upgrading or fresh install, don't waste your time.
Regards.
Same results upgrading or fresh install, don't waste your time.
Regards.
It's problems like yours that make me hesitant to buy a MBP16. Can I ask what monitor you are using, and how you are connecting it?
Has anyone compared an i7 5300m vs i9 5500m (or 5300m) to see if the i7/5300 combo helps keep the heat down just enough to not get the fans going so often?
Trust me, don't buy it. Just go for it if you use it mostly as laptop or if you find one of those unicorn monitors that work fine with it.
I'm using a Dell U2415 and it happens with the USB-C-to-HDMI dongle and with USB-C-to-DP that I'm using right now. Maybe with some external monitor it works, but this is a very common monitor and I never had a problem with my old mac.
I was so happy with my MBP15 2017 High Sierra...
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I'm 13 days into my window with an i9 5500 setup. The TLDR, ever since upgrading to 10.15.5 yesterday, my dGPU watts are still high, 21 right now, temps in 65-67 range, but I think they changed the fan profile because I haven't gotten over 2700/2800 yet today, which is SO much better than before. And that's w Zoom videos running where yesterday I could hear the fans all day long on vid calls. I haven't had crashes yet and @elbateria I'm worried I have those coming based on your review.
More details in case it's helpful
I am running an LG 27bk85u and open lid, usually w the MBP display showing zoom video calls. I've had all of the issues folks have expressed here, my idle temps around 60-65. I've been tempted to see if it i7/5300 might keep temps down just a tad.
-I keep TurboBoost off.
-I turned off hardware acceleration in Chrome, and this had one of the biggest benefits to keep fans lower when "just browsing".
-I tried TGPro and created a new fan profile following a MaxTech video. i couldn't find a good profile setup guide online so i tried copying the one seen in that video. I DO NOT recommend that. At least what was shown focused fan rate changes on highest CPU temps, but when I tried that there was a moment I got crazy blue screen issues. So i quickly switched to System fan settings and they fully maxed out. What I discovered is it was at least in part my Thunderbolt port temps getting too high. It seems like moving my power over to the right side has helped that situation. However I do worry about future service for any heat related issue that Apple might not help me even if it's a year or two later and not to do w that initial use. I have since turned off TGPro.
So maybe 10.15.5 is doing something w the fan profiles? Right now I'm kind of in shock really at how quiet it's been running all morning. Not the wattage fix I was hoping for but just day to day use it's encouraging from a noise perspective.
More details in case it's helpful
I am running an LG 27bk85u and open lid, usually w the MBP display showing zoom video calls. I've had all of the issues folks have expressed here, my idle temps around 60-65. I've been tempted to see if it i7/5300 might keep temps down just a tad.
-I keep TurboBoost off.
-I turned off hardware acceleration in Chrome, and this had one of the biggest benefits to keep fans lower when "just browsing".
-I tried TGPro and created a new fan profile following a MaxTech video. i couldn't find a good profile setup guide online so i tried copying the one seen in that video. I DO NOT recommend that. At least what was shown focused fan rate changes on highest CPU temps, but when I tried that there was a moment I got crazy blue screen issues. So i quickly switched to System fan settings and they fully maxed out. What I discovered is it was at least in part my Thunderbolt port temps getting too high. It seems like moving my power over to the right side has helped that situation. However I do worry about future service for any heat related issue that Apple might not help me even if it's a year or two later and not to do w that initial use. I have since turned off TGPro.
So maybe 10.15.5 is doing something w the fan profiles? Right now I'm kind of in shock really at how quiet it's been running all morning. Not the wattage fix I was hoping for but just day to day use it's encouraging from a noise perspective.
Ended up returning the 16 inch, I absolutely loved the gorgeous screen and the amazing speakers. But the micro-stuttering and heat issues were too much to ignore, the area above the Touch Bar would get incredibly hot. I'm by no means a hardware engineer but the high power usage of the dGPU may be hardware related, Apple should have released a software update to address the excessive power draw but we still don't any definitive news on an upcoming fix.
I'm not a hardware engineer either, but I am still hoping and leaning towards the high power usage being fixable through a software/firmware update. Main reason being that one member here reported that, in clamshell mode, they were able to prevent high power draw by altering the screen refresh rate, regardless of the resolution (I think it was 4k vs 2k or 4k vs 1080p change).
Doesn't help of course for people who would like to use two monitors.
I'm not holding out for a software update, as the Apple engineers said that it was normal behavior in one of the previous posts. It seems like Apple does a great job with thin and light devices for the masses but always falls short when it comes to high performance devices for power users. I am in deep with the ecosystem, so I'm just going to use my work iMac at home and will either wait for the gen2 16-inch in the fall or get a 10th gen 13-inch.
I bought my 16-inch and was placed under a shelter in place order during the 14-day return window, so I hopped on a chat with Apple and they confirmed that I can return it once my local Apple store reopens.
Weirdly enough, I can't return it through the mail since I'm past the 14-day window, so I have to take personal risk to drive to one of their stores once it reopens and hang out with a bunch of people instead of a socially-distant pack and ship. Odd company with byzantine rules that seems to have trouble thinking different(ly).
I bought my 16-inch and was placed under a shelter in place order during the 14-day return window, so I hopped on a chat with Apple and they confirmed that I can return it once my local Apple store reopens.
Weirdly enough, I can't return it through the mail since I'm past the 14-day window, so I have to take personal risk to drive to one of their stores once it reopens and hang out with a bunch of people instead of a socially-distant pack and ship. Odd company with byzantine rules that seems to have trouble thinking different(ly).
Do have that power nap setting on? I recall seeing people saying not to have that checked. It's so interesting I have had this 16 w .4 for 12 days and now w .5 for 2 days. I recall only one crash where it was full crazy screen going pixelated. And I've barely heard my fans in the 1.5 days since upgrading to 10.15. I did decide to initiate a return so I can evaluate for awhile longer. If it's not a setting like PowerNap I wonder if it's just luck of draw w what unit you get. Has anyone ever gotten an external monitor working w the MBP lid open and sub 18W? My wattage FWIW seems to hover in the 19-21 range.