(2019) 16" is HOT & NOISY with an external monitor! :(

[Grohowiak]

So this morning, MBP on for about 20 minutes and this is the current state of my machine. Temp over 90c and fans running at 5,599 and 5,205. No video running, just MS Office apps, Teams, Chrome, Safari and App Store. Expected behaviour apparently 🤨

View attachment 929283

For the apps you are using just install turbo boost switcher will cool the machine down significantly I believe.
None of them require the extra kick but the temps should settle at high 70s maybe low 80s.
I would at least give it a try.
Not a real solution but will add some longevity to the system.

 

[alexktz]

So I currently don't have a personal computer (just the work laptop - on which I really don't want to do personal things). I originally wanted to grab a 16" for the performance.... but, as I don't really need advanced graphics and hearing these nightmares with the dGPU, I'm seriously reconsidering getting a 13".... or even worse, waiting for the ARM versions... though I really don't want to have to do without a personal computer for... probably a year.

Do the 13" MBPs function properly? I'm looking at grabbing the i7, 32GB, 1TB version. This'll be used mostly for iOS development, medium heavy music production, and the standard netflix/email/webbrowsing that a toaster can handle. I would be using it with an external monitor (DELL U2715H) plus the internal monitor.

I bought 3 Macbooks in the last month. 1 13", 1 16" (5500m) and 1 16" (5600m). Here are my very short reviews of each.

2020 13 inch

A decent amount of power in a small form factor but it gets obnoxiously warm under load and as a consequence the fan noise when under load was too much for me. It didn't get too hot on an external monitor, though. But, in order to maintain a decent cool to the touch daily working mode I had to permanently disable turbo boost. I returned this laptop.

2019 16 inch (i9, 5500m)

We all know the external monitor problems this one has. Fans at 3k rpm just idling on the desktop with a single monitor attached. Otherwise, pretty much the perfect machine. Due to external monitor noise, I returned it.

2020 16 inch (i9, 5600m)

An expensive fix but a fix none the less. As per my earlier postings this GPU runs at <12w with every configuration of external monitor I could throw at it. The i9 CPU also gets 100-150 more points in Cinebench than the 2019 i9 (even accounting for the difference between H and HK SKUs), did I just get a better unit or is there something else at play here? I don't know. Yes, the i9 9980HK outperforms an overclocked desktop i7 8700k with a Noctua NH-D14 cooler. Beast mode. I can even take video calls (Skype, Zoom, Google Meet, etc) with fans under 1900rpm and temps under 65c with an external monitor connected - amazing on a $4700 laptop LOL. I'll be *keeping* this laptop for many years.

 

[magbarn]

I bought 3 Macbooks in the last month. 1 13", 1 16" (5500m) and 1 16" (5600m). Here are my very short reviews of each.

2020 13 inch

A decent amount of power in a small form factor but it gets obnoxiously warm under load and as a consequence the fan noise when under load was too much for me. It didn't get too hot on an external monitor, though. To maintain a decent cool to the touch daily working mode I had to permanently disable turbo boost. I returned this laptop.

2019 16 inch (i9, 5500m)

We all know the external monitor problems this one has. Fans at 3k rpm just idling on the desktop with a single monitor attached. Otherwise, pretty much the perfect machine. Due to external monitor noise, I returned it.

2020 16 inch (i9, 5600m)

An expensive fix but a fix none the less. As per my earlier postings this GPU runs at <12w with every configuration of external monitor I could throw at it. The i9 CPU also gets 100-150 more points than the 2019 i9, did I just get a better unit or is there something else at play here? I don't know. I'll be *keeping* this laptop for many years.

Although you’re a data point of 1, if this Is reproducible then us 5300/5500 users are screwed as it seems this requires a hardware revision to fix it.

 

[alexktz]

Although you’re a data point of 1, if this Is reproducible then us 5300/5500 users are screwed as it seems this requires a hardware revision to fix it.

Are you saying a sample size of 1 isn't reliable? *shock*

A friend of mine is buying the 5600m today as well, I'll see if he can replicate for y'all.

 

[magbarn]

Are you saying a sample size of 1 isn't reliable? *shock*

A friend of mine is buying the 5600m today as well, I'll see if he can replicate for y'all.

Cool let us know.

Thought about going for the 5600, but it's probably going to cost me crazy amounts of money as Apple is only willing to take $1600 on trade in for a 8 month old loaded MBP 16 that I paid $3600+Tax for.

 

[Jaunte]

In a wider context:
Basically any notebook with very basic "Intel UHD Graphics" can drive 2 additional external 4K displays at 60Hz and uses less than 1W for that... And we're talking about 20W-12W-8W... And we're told this is the expected...
It is very far from acceptable I think.

 

[Grohowiak]

In a wider context:
Basically any notebook with very basic "Intel UHD Graphics" can drive 2 additional external 4K displays at 60Hz and uses less than 1W for that... And we're talking about 20W-12W-8W... And we're told this is the expected...
It is very far from acceptable I think.

They are trying to push the "reality distortion field" again.

 

[alexfc]

This issue could definitely be fixed by developing better drivers. The decision to set the clocks at highest speed when a second monitor is connected is software and If the monitors are synchronized this shouldn’t happen:

AMDGPU To Allow Memory Re-Clocking Soon For Multi-Monitor Setups - Phoronix

www.phoronix.com

 

[Minga089]

So the 5600m is confirmed to not have these issues due to the HBM2 memory? Interesting.

I have a i7/32GB/5500 8GB coming next week, if it has these issues I guess I'll just go for that upgrade

It‘s not 100% clear that it‘s due to the HBM2 memory

This issue could definitely be fixed by developing better drivers. The decision to set the clocks at highest speed when a second monitor is connected is software and If the monitors are synchronized this shouldn’t happen:

AMDGPU To Allow Memory Re-Clocking Soon For Multi-Monitor Setups - Phoronix

www.phoronix.com

The issue could also be fixed if macOS wasn't designed to automatically switch to the dedicated gpu as soon as an external monitor is connected, especially if that GPU is so power hungry.

 

[bomby0]

2020 16 inch (i9, 5600m)

An expensive fix but a fix none the less. As per my earlier postings this GPU runs at <12w with every configuration of external monitor I could throw at it. The i9 CPU also gets 100-150 more points in Cinebench than the 2019 i9 (even accounting for the difference between H and HK SKUs), did I just get a better unit or is there something else at play here? I don't know. Yes, the i9 9980HK outperforms an overclocked desktop i7 8700k with a Noctua NH-D14 cooler. Beast mode. I can even take video calls (Skype, Zoom, Google Meet, etc) with fans under 1900rpm and temps under 65c with an external monitor connected - amazing on a $4700 laptop LOL. I'll be *keeping* this laptop for many years.

Finally we can do quiet Zoom calls with an external monitor all for the low low price of $4700! Apple is definitely a leader in innovation!

 

[silvetti]

It‘s not 100% clear that it‘s due to the HBM2 memory

The issue could also be fixed if macOS wasn't designed to automatically switch to the dedicated gpu as soon as an external monitor is connected, especially if that GPU is so power hungry.

That's not a macOS design but a MacBook Pro design.

 

[interbear]

For the apps you are using just install turbo boost switcher will cool the machine down significantly I believe.
None of them require the extra kick but the temps should settle at high 70s maybe low 80s.
I would at least give it a try.
Not a real solution but will add some longevity to the system.

I do have Turbo Boost switcher already and it makes a bit of a difference, but not enough to make it acceptable. Also, I don't think I should let Apple get away it - I shouldn't really need to add 3rd party software that disables a key feature to make it usable from a fan noise / heat perspective.

 

[magbarn]

It‘s not 100% clear that it‘s due to the HBM2 memory

The issue could also be fixed if macOS wasn't designed to automatically switch to the dedicated gpu as soon as an external monitor is connected, especially if that GPU is so power hungry.

Now that would be impossible unless you redesign the logic board. Every Macbook with a dGPU has the external video connectors HARDWIRED into the Nvidia or AMD chip. Only the LCD is physically connected to the intel GPU. PC manufacturers use a different approach where the intel GPU is hardwired to the external connectors and the dGPU then uses the Intel GPU as the passthrough.

 

[Appledoesnotlisten]

Finally we can do quiet Zoom calls with an external monitor all for the low low price of $4700! Apple is definitely a leader in innovation!

All of this just drives up the resale price of the 15" machines. I have returned the 16" and am keeping two 15" 2017. They work so quietly compared to that 16" noisy frying pan!

 

[Grohowiak]

I do have Turbo Boost switcher already and it makes a bit of a difference, but not enough to make it acceptable. Also, I don't think I should let Apple get away it - I shouldn't really need to add 3rd party software that disables a key feature to make it usable from a fan noise / heat perspective.

Of course don't stop bugging apple. I don't understand why people pay extra $700 + tax to get rid of a problem instead of pressuring apple for a fix either but I was just saying that if for some reason you don't have it running yet, in most cases you presented there's no need for turbo on. Basically extra heat for nothing.

 

[Minga089]

Ah ok, thx. I didn't know that.

 

[mcnuggetswithcheese]

I love your solution It must be a software bug. I think I've heard somewhere that Apple has delegated GPU Bootcamp driver development to AMD. Maybe it's the same for macOS? From what I know AMD has not released any driver updates since 16"s release and their track record with drivers is.. well.. unsatisfactory. Could this explain the situation?

Yesterday, AMD updated the Boot camp drivers for the MBP with 5600M. The ones for 5300 and 5500 remain unchanged, though

 

[ludalex]

I don’t see your post, it’s deleted?

Today at 1:39 PM

 

[alexfc]

Just to add to the possible software/driver problem:

https://www.reddit.com/r/AMDHelp/comments/fzmm8w

Which monitor timing parameter allows gpu vram frequency to downclock and run idle? Solved

Because now monitor is at 75 hz. and Vram is at 1750 Mhz. When i set monitor to 60 hz the Vram idles to 200. Monitor is Q3279VWD8 if that’s needed. Will there be any fix in drivers ever so monitors can run with idle clocks with monitors running nonstandard timings? The most common...

community.amd.com

This seems to be it. I guess we could also turn our frustrations more towards AMD too, to fix it in a update?

Anyway, for now the solution seems to try different monitors that use actual standards LCD timing:

I also had this problem but with a 144Hz monitor and standard timings didn't work for me at 144hz( monitor goes into standby) and I lowered the refresh rate to 141Hz and that allowed my vram clock to stay at 200mhz idle.

Some monitor manufacturers simply don't use standard LCD timings and that's what causing this issue. Idk why they are using non standard timings...cost savings, low quality panels idk I can only speculate.

It is not normal, but at the moment the only fix is to change your refresh rate to 120hz or 142hz.

check here

Hope AMD will fix this soon, more and more people report every day.

5700 XT vram 1750mhz idle at 144hz

Hello is this normal to have the vram this high when running at 144hz idle

community.amd.com

High Vram Clock always!!!

Vram clock stuck at 1750 as you can see on idle. Saphire Nitro+ 5700 XT latest driver after a fresh install of windows. Fix please. What you see on the picture is Vram Clock Speed at 1750 MHz whenever 240hz are active so theres clearly some issue in the driver since when i lower my refresh rate...

community.amd.com

5700 XT card runs at very high GPU clock speed when idle.

Hello, I have MSI 5700 XT reference design video card. My card runs at very high GPU clock speeds when the system is idle. I was having the same problem at memory clock speed. However, I solved this problem with the CRU program. When the memory clock is idle, it runs at 200 mhz. However, the GPU...

community.amd.com

RX 5700 XT - 75 Hz/144 Hz/non-standard refresh rates causing VRAM clock to run at max

Hey guys, If you're in the same situation as I am with my RX 5700 XT where the memory clock is running at maximum speed at 144 Hz even though you're idle (desktop, non-3D software, etc.), it looks like u/BrainMuncher was able to deduct why this happens and a possible fix: I will be trying...

www.techpowerup.com

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/g286li

AMD Radeon 19.7.3 Drivers Increase RX 5700 Series Idle Fan Speeds by Over 50%

AMD's recent Radeon Software Adrenalin 19.7.3 beta drivers appear to break the fan settings of reference-design Radeon RX 5700 XT and RX 5700 cards. All earlier drivers for these cards offered good idle fan-speeds, despite the lack of fan-stop, with the fan of Radeon RX 5700 XT idling around 14%...

www.techpowerup.com

The AMD Radeon RX 580 & RX 570 Review: A Second Path to Polaris

www.anandtech.com

RX 5700 XT memory clock stuck causing high temps when idle

My RX 5700 XT memory clocks are stuck at 875 mhz (according to wattman) and 1750 mhz (according to gpu-z) at all times - when gaming and when idle in windows with nothing running on the background. Problem persists on a fresh adrenalin driver install without any changes made after installation...

community.amd.com

AMD answer on June 2: says it’s expected.

I checked with the product team and their feedback is that depending on specific display configurations (resolution and refresh rate combinations) and background tasks, RX 5000 Series GPUs may maintain memory frequency to ensure an optimal user experience. This behavior is expected and does not impact the RX 5000 GPU in any way.

NVIDIA cards used to suffer the same problem, but they’ve fixed it updating the drivers:

NVIDIA Finally Fixes Multi-Monitor Power Consumption of Turing GeForce 20. Tested on RTX 2070, 2080 and 2080 Ti.

Today, NVIDIA released their GeForce 416.81 drivers, which among others, contains the following changelog entry: "[Turing GPU]: Multi-monitor idle power draw is very high. [2400161]". Back at launch in September, Turing was plagued with very high non-gaming power consumption, in both...

www.techpowerup.com

Some people had the same kind of problem even with the Vega 56 (which uses HBM2 memory, same as 5600M):

Vega 56 High Idle Memory Clock Stuck at 800Mhz

Hi ! I recently discovered that my Sapphire Vega 56 memory clock would randomly stay at 800 Mhz while doing nothing. Sometimes it will fix itself , sometimes not, forcing me to reboot. Every setting is at stock value , I didn't change a thing. I don't know if it is related to the refresh rate...

community.amd.com

Vega memory clock bug with multiple monitors

The memory clock on my Vega 56 randomly gets stuck at the max value (800mhz stock) since a few driver versions ago. I think the problem started in 19.4.1. It was supposedly fixed in 19.5.1 according to the release notes but it wasn't. I'm currently on 19.6.1 and the bug is still there. Seems to...

community.amd.com

So, although it seems less common, it still happens, so I guess we could point towards a driver problem. Meanwhile, it seems that the solution is matching monitors.

 

[Norbert Mikołajczyk]

Just to add to the possible software/driver problem:

https://www.reddit.com/r/AMDHelp/comments/fzmm8w

Which monitor timing parameter allows gpu vram frequency to downclock and run idle? Solved

Because now monitor is at 75 hz. and Vram is at 1750 Mhz. When i set monitor to 60 hz the Vram idles to 200. Monitor is Q3279VWD8 if that’s needed. Will there be any fix in drivers ever so monitors can run with idle clocks with monitors running nonstandard timings? The most common...

community.amd.com

This seems to be it. I guess we could also turn our frustrations more towards AMD too, to fix it in a update?

Anyway, for now the solution seems to try different monitors that use actual standards LCD timing:

Great finding! Yes, I think that's could be the problem, drivers and different panels.
So it seems that we should experiment more with switchresx individually.

 

[supaninjax]

So is it confirmed that the 5600m doesn’t experience these issues? I’m tempted to sell my 2019 16’ and get the 2020 version with 5600m because my current machine is unusable in it’s current state. But being as it’s July I know a refresh is coming soon. Not sure if I should buy the 5600m machine or wait for newer models.

 

[Jaunte]

So it seems that we should experiment more with switchresx individually.

Interesting from a tech perspective..., but why should I need to experiment with a super expensive pro grade notebook ? I've paid premium price exactly not to experiment.
This notebook must work out of the box, event the smallest flaw is unacceptable at this price range.

 

[Grohowiak]

Interesting from a tech perspective..., but why should I need to experiment with a super expensive pro grade notebook ? I've paid premium price exactly not to experiment.
This notebook must work out of the box, event the smallest flaw is unacceptable at this price range.

Because typical apple customer takes a loss and buys a more expensive unit to fix it.
Why would apple care when only few people make noise while they are making more money?
That's how I am starting to see it after reading this thread.

 

[dooyou]

But being as it’s July I know a refresh is coming soon.

Tell me more.

 

[Norbert Mikołajczyk]

Interesting from a tech perspective..., but why should I need to experiment with a super expensive pro grade notebook ? I've paid premium price exactly not to experiment.
This notebook must work out of the box, event the smallest flaw is unacceptable at this price range.

Yeah, just a workaround for now, it could be Apple or AMD fault...