(2019) 16" is HOT & NOISY with an external monitor! :(

[Grohowiak]

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Good to watch:

I didn't find the video informative.
I mean my base i7 goes 100 celcius in a matter of seconds when I'm on external screen WHICH means that the throttling will kick in and there goes my fast macbook not to mention that this kind of heat is simply unhealthy to everything around the CPU no matter what anybody states.
Same operation without external screen and I won't even hit 90

 

[Alex W.]

Has anyone tried changing the thermal paste to see if it helps?

 

[eRajesh]

Has anyone tried changing the thermal paste to see if it helps?

That is unlikely to change things. The problem is the high power consumption which leads to high temps. The power consumption needs to be controlled first.

But yea, I am very interested in knowing the results of an aftermarket thermal paste on the 16"MBP. I doubt it will have a big impact as Apple switched to a better solution with the 2019 15" MBP.

 

[Jaunte]

So my Apple Care case was "escalated to an engineer" by the Apple Support person I spoke with last week. They got back to me today and, unsurprisingly, advised that the engineer's conclusion was that the fan noise and heat was "expected behaviour" I mentioned the following:

Does anybody know what exactly "Expected Behaviour" means ?
For example if you can't use the built in webcam and microphone because the fans are spinning on max and nobody can hear you, can it be expected behaviour ?
Exactly where does the specification mention that you can use the webcam or external displays but you can't use them at same time ?

 

[interbear]

Nah, keep arguing with apple, say you got AppleCare to avoid being stuck with lemon products and how you have faith in apple products -- this is my position, I've has Microsoft products and some had engineering flaws and Microsoft simply replaced it with a working unit that had them fixed, a newer unit.

Now I did have extended warranty, so there it would be very shameful if Microsoft gives better support than apple.

Keep pushing for a solution and fill us in.


Apples AD
View attachment 929049View attachment 929052

Indeed. I do have AppleCare and I have no intention of accepting this "expected behaviour" nonsense.

Since connecting the monitor my experience has been wholly unacceptable.

If they can't fix it then I either want to swap for a 13 inch or the 16 inch with 5600 graphics - basically anything that does NOT have this fan / heat problem. Because it is, unquestionably, a problem, whatever the Apple support response says.

I'll keep escalating it until I get a satisfactory resolution.

 

[dooyou]

Honestly, let's just get back down to earth. The 5600 costs considerably more and the extra power is only used by a few. Apple, due to whose fault, also put additional money in their pockets? That really can't be the solution.

 

[alexfc]

Apple claims:

You can connect as many as four displays in these configurations:
- Two 6K displays with resolutions of 6016 x 3384 at 60Hz
- Two 5K displays with resolutions of 5120 x 2880 at 60Hz
- Four 4K displays with resolutions of 4096 x 2304 at 60Hz
- One 5K display at 5120 x 2880 at 60Hz and up to three 4K displays at 4096 x 2304 at 60Hz

- Two LG UltraFine 5K displays configured at 5120 x 2880 10bpc at 60Hz
- Four LG UltraFine 4K displays configured at 4096 x 2304 8bpc at 60Hz
- One LG UltraFine 5K display connected to one side of your Mac and two LG UltraFine 4K displays connected to ports on the opposite side.

Any of the above setups should be handled by the MacBook in a reasonable behavior (meaning no fans spinning 24/7 or overheating), but that’s no what we’re seeing here. I’d understand If we were pushing it to the max (like running 4 4K displays) to run into some fine line, with the fans spinning more often than not, but that’s not what’s happening. It’s struggling with a single 4K monitor (sometimes not even that) + lid open. That’s not reasonable at all and definitely not an expected behavior.

 

[VertPin]

Indeed. I do have AppleCare and I have no intention of accepting this "expected behaviour" nonsense.

Since connecting the monitor my experience has been wholly unacceptable.

If they can't fix it then I either want to swap for a 13 inch or the 16 inch with 5600 graphics - basically anything that does NOT have this fan / heat problem. Because it is, unquestionably, a problem, whatever the Apple support response says.

I'll keep escalating it until I get a satisfactory resolution.

From my understanding, you’re not satisfied with the thermals and cooling of the machine, is that correct?

I certainly understand the frustration if that’s the case however I don’t see escalation getting you the exchange or refund you want.

If you do end up combining, try to be civil and understanding to whoever you’re speaking to. They’re a person too. I used to work for Apple retail and they do try to lean on the side of the consumer. However, if you’re going to act ignorant and demanding then they’ll just tell you “tough cookies”.

Just my two cents.

 

[Alex W.]

From my understanding, you’re not satisfied with the thermals and cooling of the machine, is that correct?

I certainly understand the frustration if that’s the case however I don’t see escalation getting you the exchange or refund you want.

If you do end up combining, try to be civil and understanding to whoever you’re speaking to. They’re a person too. I used to work for Apple retail and they do try to lean on the side of the consumer. However, if you’re going to act ignorant and demanding then they’ll just tell you “tough cookies”.

Just my two cents.

Has apple actually become worse than Microsoft today?

I have some faith in Apple, that if their units preform worse vs the past units, its a lemon or flaw.
If it prevents working from home, in a Professional manner - its a flaw as apples advertises this as professional grade.

Honestly, if someone has valid complaints how a new unit is impeding work flow and ability vs the past -- I know Microsoft would bend over to please the customer, and you're saying Apple wouldn't today?

Ive had great experience with apple in the past, but you're making me question even having AppleCare vs using my Credit Card warranty. This is a completely valid issue for professionals.

 

[bill-p]

Has apple actually become worse than Microsoft today?

I have some faith in Apple, that if their units preform worse vs the past units, its a lemon or flaw.
If it prevents working from home, in a Professional manner - its a flaw as apples advertises this as professional grade.

Honestly, if someone has valid complaints how a new unit is impeding work flow and ability vs the past -- I know Microsoft would bend over to please the customer, and you're saying Apple wouldn't today?

Ive had great experience with apple in the past, but you're making me question even having AppleCare vs using my Credit Card warranty. This is a completely valid issue for professionals.

I don't know what experience you have had with Apple but Apple to me has never bent over to please any of their customers. Never.

Their customer service reps bend over to please me. That much I can attest to. They employ some of the best people. But the company itself has not bent over to any one issue. Why do you think the Butterfly keyboard was allowed to persist for up to 5 generations of MacBooks before finally going away with the 16"?

I am not over the moon with my MacBook. I recognize that it has flaws. The flaws do not affect my workflow and so... I can continue to ignore them. But I am under no illusion that Apple will ever bend over and personally address this issue for me, not for this 16", and not for the next 2 or 3 generations of it, if this turns out to be a hardware flaw, and if AMD GPUs continue to operate this way.

And even in the case that this is just a software flaw, Apple is also seemingly not willing at all to address it, as evident by many responses in this thread.

I think their message to you and many others should be clear by now. I don't see how your faith will be rewarded, but maybe that's just me.

 

[jc_9]

I also think the same. They now provided a costly $800 solution for those who are complaining about this issue. I bet this is how they are addressing the problem since it doesn't annoy the majority...

You might think the 5600M is a nice added GPU future-proofing to your Macbook but seeing how the ARM Macbooks are about to come out, I'm not so sure.

 

[mrmachine79]

Just read what the guy above you wrote about restarting the mac in clam shell vs open and then close the lid.
First case power draw is low, second scenario power draw does not go down even though the screen is off. I will actually test this today and if true then this is 100% software bug.
Will apple will fix it? well that's a whole another story.

The fact that power usage doesn't drop from 18W to 5W on closing the lid after running dual displays may indeed be a bug, but that is in no way "the" bug, which is high power consumption and heat with multiple displays (internal + external), apparently caused by higher power usage (vs last generation 560x dGPU with lower frequency memory, and vs 5600m dGPU with HBM2 faster but lower power memory).

I believe "the" bug is absolutely 100% hardware, and is confirmed by the 5600m, and cannot be fixed for 5300m and 5500m with a software update, assuming the "by design" feature of increased memory speed with dual displays is actually necessary (e.g. to avoid laggy scrolling, as seen in some screen recordings posted earlier).

 

[ateslik]

The BETA does indeed work, thank you!

8 watts on a Dell 34" U3419W ultrawide @ 3440x1440 connected via 1 usb-c cable (this monitor does not have thunderbolt). I just returned my 1 week old 5500m (after trying the SwitchResX stuff and failing) for a 5600m in the hopes that the HBM memory would resolve the heat, and it has. Exactly the same setup with the monitor between the two GPUs, same monitor with the 5500m was 20+w and *heat*.

This is the top i9, 32gb ram, 5600m spec.

1 hour connected to the external display and fans are yet to go above 2000 rpm during normal coding, web browsing, etc. If I compile something they obviously ramp up for a bit but that's totally fine.

HOORAY!!!!

These results are very compelling. I almost want to give it a try. May I ask one more thing (and thank you for being so generous with your time and testing!): what is the system total wattage when you are just browsing the web - like macrumors - both in clamshell and lid open? On my 13" system total wattage fluctuates between 7.5-8.9W depending on what I'm doing, and system temps range between 126-135F. From your screenshot it shows system total wattage at 34W, which seems really high for just normal activity.

 

[mrmachine79]

Indeed. I do have AppleCare and I have no intention of accepting this "expected behaviour" nonsense.

Since connecting the monitor my experience has been wholly unacceptable.

If they can't fix it then I either want to swap for a 13 inch or the 16 inch with 5600 graphics - basically anything that does NOT have this fan / heat problem. Because it is, unquestionably, a problem, whatever the Apple support response says.

I'll keep escalating it until I get a satisfactory resolution.

I have a few times experienced personally that after many rounds of complaint on the same issue and their attempts to correct it by repair and replace, Apple will eventually agree to a refund or complete replacement with a new/current product (at which time you can choose to upgrade its specs for more money). They will not admit fault but will agree in the name of customer service experience. It's a lot of hard work though, PLUS you also still have to pay for the 5600m upgrade.

If paying for the crazy high 5600m upgrade cost is really an acceptable option for you to get reduced fan noise, and you have the stamina, then keep fighting for it.

 

[mcurrys07]

Just as an update here.

Ive escalated my case a second time with Apple Support. The reps have been super nice and very helpful but getting back an email saying that the engineers found this acceptable behavior is absolutely infuriating. Im expecting an actual call with a senior engineer about the second escalation later this afternoon. Not going to be surprised when they tell me for the second time that its normal for this machine to jump over 20 Degrees Celsius purely because of a monitor being plugged in.

I have 1 day left in the return window. Really trying my best to hold onto this thing because i use it for work everyday but Apple isn't making it easy.

 

[mrmachine79]

Just as an update here.

Ive escalated my case a second time with Apple Support. The reps have been super nice and very helpful but getting back an email saying that the engineers found this acceptable behavior is absolutely infuriating. Im expecting an actual call with a senior engineer about the second escalation later this afternoon. Not going to be surprised when they tell me for the second time that its normal for this machine to jump over 20 Degrees Celsius purely because of a monitor being plugged in.

I have 1 day left in the return window. Really trying my best to hold onto this thing because i use it for work everyday but Apple isn't making it easy.

Just return it. There is no way the issue will be resolved to your satisfaction within 1 day. The absolute best you could possibly hope for through support (even after emailing Tim Cook and having an "Executive Liason" call you personally to take over the case) is for them to authorise a full refund, so you can get a 13" MBP or 16" MBP with 5600m graphics. You already have those options available to you.

 

[jc_9]

Yeah don't miss your return window. You get another 2 weeks to print the label and send it back to UPS

 

[Grohowiak]

The fact that power usage doesn't drop from 18W to 5W on closing the lid after running dual displays may indeed be a bug, but that is in no way "the" bug, which is high power consumption and heat with multiple displays (internal + external), apparently caused by higher power usage (vs last generation 560x dGPU with lower frequency memory, and vs 5600m dGPU with HBM2 faster but lower power memory).

I believe "the" bug is absolutely 100% hardware, and is confirmed by the 5600m, and cannot be fixed for 5300m and 5500m with a software update, assuming the "by design" feature of increased memory speed with dual displays is actually necessary (e.g. to avoid laggy scrolling, as seen in some screen recordings posted earlier).

If that is the case then the 5300 and 5500 are a design flaw because I am unable to work with a machine that heats up to 100 Celsius on basically any "professional" task which then slows the performance in order no to melt itself.
Have you tried touching the keyboard top cover after the cpu runs at this temps for a bit?

 

[k2so]

there are many people at here from all over the world who had experience that problem, does apple do not care their customers ?. that's shame for the apple.

 

[Minga089]

Honestly, let's just get back down to earth. The 5600 costs considerably more and the extra power is only used by a few. Apple, due to whose fault, also put additional money in their pockets? That really can't be the solution.

True. Just going for the expensive 5600m upgrade instead would be like actually rewarding Apple for their design flaw.

 

[mcurrys07]

Just return it. There is no way the issue will be resolved to your satisfaction within 1 day. The absolute best you could possibly hope for through support (even after emailing Tim Cook and having an "Executive Liason" call you personally to take over the case) is for them to authorise a full refund, so you can get a 13" MBP or 16" MBP with 5600m graphics. You already have those options available to you.

Once travel opens up again i'll be using the machine more in laptop mode than connected to a display. I know that i shouldn't have too do this but keeping it in clamshell mode when at my desk isn't a total deal breaker. Im able to keep the temp around 50 to 55 Celsius when in clamshell. My concern is the longevity of the machine and if these temps are acceptable long term.

I do agree that anyone who uses their machine at a desk shouldn't even remotely have to be forced to keep it in clamshell mode to get a desired temperature and lower fan noise.

Also Second update:

Spoke with a senior engineer and he essentially said that again this is expected behavior. 🙃 Can't make this up lol

 

[poematik13]

So the 5600m is confirmed to not have these issues due to the HBM2 memory? Interesting.

I have a i7/32GB/5500 8GB coming next week, if it has these issues I guess I'll just go for that upgrade

 

[Jaunte]

Spoke with a senior engineer and he essentially said that again this is expected behavior. 🙃 Can't make this up lol

I understand that it is expected from their perspective as they know that the design is faulty and this is how it works, but it doesn't change the fact that it isn't reasonable behaviour from a pro/top/best notebook or acceptable in any way.

 

[bomby0]

I agree with everyone. If you're talking to apple support/engineering hoping they have a solution:

MAKE SURE YOU DON'T MISS YOUR 14 DAY RETURN WINDOW.

I really regret not returning my Macbook Pro 16" when I had the chance due to this bug thinking it would be fixed.

 

[Alex W.]

Just as an update here.

Ive escalated my case a second time with Apple Support. The reps have been super nice and very helpful but getting back an email saying that the engineers found this acceptable behavior is absolutely infuriating. Im expecting an actual call with a senior engineer about the second escalation later this afternoon. Not going to be surprised when they tell me for the second time that its normal for this machine to jump over 20 Degrees Celsius purely because of a monitor being plugged in.

I have 1 day left in the return window. Really trying my best to hold onto this thing because i use it for work everyday but Apple isn't making it easy.

Please keep us updated ASAP.