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Pierre-Luc Dionne

macrumors member
Mar 31, 2020
34
38
I used Macs Fan Control (free software) and I set it up with my MacBook Air. It turns out after few minutes that if I speed the fan up to 3000-3500 RPM it really help the core temperature. I was 100 degrees and I activated the software with 6000 RPM and in less than 10 secondes, the temperature went down to 75 degrees with the same usage (zoom meeting).

If I set ip up to 3500 RPM and I change manually the core temperature where the fans turns much faster, it could be great.

What do you think ?
 

TechieGeek

macrumors 6502
Mar 12, 2012
260
561
Just got my i7. Counter Strike: GO is very playable, with 45-50FPS. I completed an hour long game, the fan runs quietly but it never gets loud.
 
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darkest.d

macrumors member
Sep 10, 2016
57
59
Brooklyn
Hmm I can't like I'm not liking how the fans rev up randomly when not doing anything, had a YT and a couple reddit pages with media open and it was going nuts.

The keyboard is soo good tho I don't even want the Pro with the butterfly
 

jev425

macrumors 6502
Sep 12, 2014
441
101
Seattle, WA
Hmm I can't like I'm not liking how the fans rev up randomly when not doing anything, had a YT and a couple reddit pages with media open and it was going nuts.

The keyboard is soo good tho I don't even want the Pro with the butterfly
Is yours a i5 model? I have noticed that with mine as well. If I have YouTube playing, open a new tab(safari) to go to a website, the temp will spike anywhere from 75-90c and kick on the fan(slight noise) for about 10-15 seconds.
 

RegularGuy09

macrumors regular
Feb 20, 2015
177
94
So your conclusion here is that you can be perfectly happy with the MBA 2018 both with speed, fan and temp for your daily work and when you upgrade to MBA 2020 (for web development) then the power of this machine gets you into fan and temp problem. That is bad news for all of us that like the MBA form factor an had hoped to finally get a quad core light dev machine in the Air format.

Some comparison between the older and the newer models for workloads and heat :

 

TechieGeek

macrumors 6502
Mar 12, 2012
260
561
I cannot really say what the new MBP will be like.

About your use, when you are doing web development, you might spend some time in the Chrome dev tools. On the 2020 MBA, it looks like Chrome runs hotter than Safari, so that might be an additional consideration if you are trying to avoid heat and fan noise.
So your conclusion here is that you can be perfectly happy with the MBA 2018 both with speed, fan and temp for your daily work and when you upgrade to MBA 2020 (for web development) then the power of this machine gets you into fan and temp problem. That is bad news for all of us that like the MBA form factor an had hoped to finally get a quad core light dev machine in the Air format.
I wouldn’t say that you get into a “fan and temp problem” with Dev work, especially web development work that doesn’t compile anything locally.

The people saying “chrome runs hot” are referring to it playing 4K video. Safari can’t play 4K so it runs cooler. You can use Chrome’s developer tools without worry.

You can have tons of tabs open without any heat issue:
F5BF7573-EBF2-49D6-B85B-493C24CC148E.jpeg
 
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HopelesslyConfused

macrumors newbie
Apr 10, 2020
26
54
I'm not a youtuber, but somebody really needs to make a big, giant click baity video, just like Max Tech's, which is just showing the computer... being a computer.

Seems to me, when you're not doing that much on it, it's cool and quiet. When you're doing a lot, the fan is sometimes audible. When you're pushing it to the limit - just like with every other Macbook Air - it goes to maximum.

My girlfriend was rendering a video on my 2015 MBA last night. It's been my favourite Macbook Air that I've owned for balancing performance with battery life and thermal emissions. It has the magical heat pipe which makes every computer evaporate heat into thin air and operate at boost 100% of the time which MaxTech craves, and of course, I could hear it from across the room.

The fan was blasting, and by his wrong-headed definition the CPU was 'thermal throttling' by dropping the speeds to base clock to ensure the chip didn't damage itself. That is just the way things are with Intel chips, and has been since I've started using them in 2006.

The fact that one idiotic review has caused so much angst is insane. Especially because, to sum up, that review is 'the new Macbook Air is not a half-priced Macbook Pro and that is BAD, you won't be able to EDIT YOUR 4K VIDEO ON IT'.

No **** MaxTech. I've also never been able to design parts for the International Space Station on a Macbook Air, or compute data that I've just received from the Large Hadron Collider. I guess if I absolutely needed to do stuff like that, you know, professional stuff, I'd go for something with Pro in the name, which is probably going to cost twice as much.

This is a guy who put out a review where he proceded to water cool the CPU, and still didn't see that much of a performance bump, because of the way the i5 Ice Lake mobile processor is designed to burst and ramp down so it can live inside a metal shell. But even after that, the thermal design of the MBA is still 'fundamentally broken'... or maybe, just maybe, the computer, like any computer, is balancing power draw, heat and performance within the limits of the technology it runs on.

Comparing this year's Macbook Air to existing Macbook Pros is fair enough - you can show people the delta in performance. Comparing this year's Macbook Air to a 2020 Macbook Pro that hasn't been released yet, and nobody owns, is like comparing apples with Jupiter - I guess they're roughly the same, but you can't get the latter. Comparing it with ARM-based Macbooks which literally do not exist is like comparing apples to dark matter - one is tangible, the other one is pretty much entirely theoretical.

I can't help thinking he and everybody else who declares the computer unusable just really expected Apple to sell a refreshed Macbook Pro for $999. I would love it if they did, and I am no business person, but that would seem to be like a really stupid move for a company designed around making money.
 

srkirt

Suspended
Apr 12, 2020
257
179
Barcelona
At last I have managed that the temp does not reach 100º even playing 4k at 60fps. at rest without ventilation it is at 32º. The only thing I have done this time is instead of having so much thick dissipating paste put a thin sheet of aluminum between the cpu and the heatsink. So now the contact is more effective, it transmits more heat to the heatsink, to the coins and the coins to the aluminum that I put in the cover. Crazy...
 

esphil

macrumors regular
Oct 19, 2008
190
95
I'm not a youtuber, but somebody really needs to make a big, giant click baity video, just like Max Tech's, which is just showing the computer... being a computer.

Seems to me, when you're not doing that much on it, it's cool and quiet. When you're doing a lot, the fan is sometimes audible. When you're pushing it to the limit - just like with every other Macbook Air - it goes to maximum.

My girlfriend was rendering a video on my 2015 MBA last night. It's been my favourite Macbook Air that I've owned for balancing performance with battery life and thermal emissions. It has the magical heat pipe which makes every computer evaporate heat into thin air and operate at boost 100% of the time which MaxTech craves, and of course, I could hear it from across the room.

The fan was blasting, and by his wrong-headed definition the CPU was 'thermal throttling' by dropping the speeds to base clock to ensure the chip didn't damage itself. That is just the way things are with Intel chips, and has been since I've started using them in 2006.

The fact that one idiotic review has caused so much angst is insane. Especially because, to sum up, that review is 'the new Macbook Air is not a half-priced Macbook Pro and that is BAD, you won't be able to EDIT YOUR 4K VIDEO ON IT'.

No **** MaxTech. I've also never been able to design parts for the International Space Station on a Macbook Air, or compute data that I've just received from the Large Hadron Collider. I guess if I absolutely needed to do stuff like that, you know, professional stuff, I'd go for something with Pro in the name, which is probably going to cost twice as much.

This is a guy who put out a review where he proceded to water cool the CPU, and still didn't see that much of a performance bump, because of the way the i5 Ice Lake mobile processor is designed to burst and ramp down so it can live inside a metal shell. But even after that, the thermal design of the MBA is still 'fundamentally broken'... or maybe, just maybe, the computer, like any computer, is balancing power draw, heat and performance within the limits of the technology it runs on.

Comparing this year's Macbook Air to existing Macbook Pros is fair enough - you can show people the delta in performance. Comparing this year's Macbook Air to a 2020 Macbook Pro that hasn't been released yet, and nobody owns, is like comparing apples with Jupiter - I guess they're roughly the same, but you can't get the latter. Comparing it with ARM-based Macbooks which literally do not exist is like comparing apples to dark matter - one is tangible, the other one is pretty much entirely theoretical.

I can't help thinking he and everybody else who declares the computer unusable just really expected Apple to sell a refreshed Macbook Pro for $999. I would love it if they did, and I am no business person, but that would seem to be like a really stupid move for a company designed around making money.
Apparently everyone using a Mac these days all edits 4k video!! I work in IT in engineering as my day job, and I don't think I've ever personally edited 4k video, nor do I watch 4k video with all of the youtube I watch. I'll admit I got caught up in all the hysteria about the performance on the Air, and I don't even have it yet. I was looking at a i9 16 mbp because of it, but honestly I don't want the weight. I want the portability of the Air, and I don't need it to be at the top of the list of some synthetic geek-bench test.


At last I have managed that the temp does not reach 100º even playing 4k at 60fps. at rest without ventilation it is at 32º. The only thing I have done this time is instead of having so much thick dissipating paste put a thin sheet of aluminum between the cpu and the heatsink. So now the contact is more effective, it transmits more heat to the heatsink, to the coins and the coins to the aluminum that I put in the cover. Crazy...
Interesting, if you can provide more details about the aluminum that would be awesome. I've been researching various mods on macbooks which isn't as common to find. I started looking at people who have modded holes into the back covers of old macbook pros. I started looking and you can find OEM covers off of the 2018 airs. I think it might be cool to buy one and take a stab at drilling some holes in the back case and combine it with some mods you are doing like better thermal paste and aluminum. Obviously Apple wants to have it all sealed off to keep dust out. But as someone who likes to tinker with hardware it might be neat to have a custom back case even if I had to clean out any dust that collects every few months. If the fans are roughly the same you could even maybe purchase a OEM one and do a heatpipe to the heatsink to get extra performance.
 
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srkirt

Suspended
Apr 12, 2020
257
179
Barcelona
I'm not a youtuber, but somebody really needs to make a big, giant click baity video, just like Max Tech's, which is just showing the computer... being a computer.

Seems to me, when you're not doing that much on it, it's cool and quiet. When you're doing a lot, the fan is sometimes audible. When you're pushing it to the limit - just like with every other Macbook Air - it goes to maximum.

My girlfriend was rendering a video on my 2015 MBA last night. It's been my favourite Macbook Air that I've owned for balancing performance with battery life and thermal emissions. It has the magical heat pipe which makes every computer evaporate heat into thin air and operate at boost 100% of the time which MaxTech craves, and of course, I could hear it from across the room.

The fan was blasting, and by his wrong-headed definition the CPU was 'thermal throttling' by dropping the speeds to base clock to ensure the chip didn't damage itself. That is just the way things are with Intel chips, and has been since I've started using them in 2006.

The fact that one idiotic review has caused so much angst is insane. Especially because, to sum up, that review is 'the new Macbook Air is not a half-priced Macbook Pro and that is BAD, you won't be able to EDIT YOUR 4K VIDEO ON IT'.

No **** MaxTech. I've also never been able to design parts for the International Space Station on a Macbook Air, or compute data that I've just received from the Large Hadron Collider. I guess if I absolutely needed to do stuff like that, you know, professional stuff, I'd go for something with Pro in the name, which is probably going to cost twice as much.

This is a guy who put out a review where he proceded to water cool the CPU, and still didn't see that much of a performance bump, because of the way the i5 Ice Lake mobile processor is designed to burst and ramp down so it can live inside a metal shell. But even after that, the thermal design of the MBA is still 'fundamentally broken'... or maybe, just maybe, the computer, like any computer, is balancing power draw, heat and performance within the limits of the technology it runs on.

Comparing this year's Macbook Air to existing Macbook Pros is fair enough - you can show people the delta in performance. Comparing this year's Macbook Air to a 2020 Macbook Pro that hasn't been released yet, and nobody owns, is like comparing apples with Jupiter - I guess they're roughly the same, but you can't get the latter. Comparing it with ARM-based Macbooks which literally do not exist is like comparing apples to dark matter - one is tangible, the other one is pretty much entirely theoretical.

I can't help thinking he and everybody else who declares the computer unusable just really expected Apple to sell a refreshed Macbook Pro for $999. I would love it if they did, and I am no business person, but that would seem to be like a really stupid move for a company designed around making money.

I understand that Apple orders Intel to limit its processors ... It is not the same one for a PC that one of Apple even being the same model Apple takes away performance for its low range ... mine an i5 MBA 2019 works at 7w when they actually go out for other machines at 10w. It is Apple's policy. BTW I have a Pro A1504 i5 and it works with the same performance as my new Air ...
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Apparently everyone using a Mac these days all edits 4k video!! I work in IT in engineering as my day job, and I don't think I've ever personally edited 4k video, nor do I watch 4k video with all of the youtube I watch. I'll admit I got caught up in all the hysteria about the performance on the Air, and I don't even have it yet. I was looking at a i9 16 mbp because of it, but honestly I don't want the weight. I want the portability of the Air, and I don't need it to be at the top of the list of some synthetic geek-bench test.



Interesting, if you can provide more details about the aluminum that would be awesome. I've been researching various mods on macbooks which isn't as common to find. I started looking at people who have modded holes into the back covers of old macbook pros. I started looking and you can find OEM covers off of the 2018 airs. I think it might be cool to buy one and take a stab at drilling some holes in the back case and combine it with some mods you are doing like better thermal paste and aluminum. Obviously Apple wants to have it all sealed off to keep dust out. But as someone who likes to tinker with hardware it might be neat to have a custom back case even if I had to clean out any dust that collects every few months. If the fans are roughly the same you could even maybe purchase a OEM one and do a heatpipe to the heatsink to get extra performance.

Hahahaha a can of Red Bull !!!
 
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intelligence

macrumors regular
Aug 27, 2015
185
277
At last I have managed that the temp does not reach 100º even playing 4k at 60fps. at rest without ventilation it is at 32º. The only thing I have done this time is instead of having so much thick dissipating paste put a thin sheet of aluminum between the cpu and the heatsink. So now the contact is more effective, it transmits more heat to the heatsink, to the coins and the coins to the aluminum that I put in the cover. Crazy...

I guess doing this helps dissipate the heat to the bottom of the chassi, but will also make the bottom of the computer hotter, no?
 

srkirt

Suspended
Apr 12, 2020
257
179
Barcelona
When removing the heatsink I do not understand why the frame that fits the cpu is so high! so placing a thin layer of paste when you mount the heatsink does not get the paste to make contact !!! you have to put a lot! which theoretically separates one metal from the other by the paste. I have filled the heatsink base with paste, I have placed the aluminum plate of a can of Red Bull ... I have put paste again and when I put the heatsink on the cpu I have noticed the contact without tightening the screws.
Another question that drives me crazy is that this heatsink is neither aluminum nor copper ... placing a copper one would be fantastic!
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A little yes, but believe me it is worth to be sailing at 45º as I am doing now and with the Fans Control in car at 2650rpm which is inaudible !!! I tried without the back cover and it didn't work ... I can only test copper wire inserted in the refrigerator and end up on top of the turbine. Photo 39º
 

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esphil

macrumors regular
Oct 19, 2008
190
95
When removing the heatsink I do not understand why the frame that fits the cpu is so high! so placing a thin layer of paste when you mount the heatsink does not get the paste to make contact !!! you have to put a lot! which theoretically separates one metal from the other by the paste. I have filled the heatsink base with paste, I have placed the aluminum plate of a can of Red Bull ... I have put paste again and when I put the heatsink on the cpu I have noticed the contact without tightening the screws.
Another question that drives me crazy is that this heatsink is neither aluminum nor copper ... placing a copper one would be fantastic!
Interesting so it sounds like the gap is not tight enough. On a PC the heatsink will have screws sometimes or clamps to ensure its tight enough. I wonder how much of a gap you would need between it. Maybe a copper shim placed in between there?
 

srkirt

Suspended
Apr 12, 2020
257
179
Barcelona
The thickness of a can of soda, if not you can not put the screws ... or take the heatsink and file that edge that is around. Anyway I put a test so that you see that the processor does not work 100% and instead it is high of temp ... Poorly bad refrigeration ....
 

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Altemose

macrumors G3
Mar 26, 2013
9,189
488
Elkton, Maryland
Received my 2020 MacBook Air today with the i5, 16 GB of RAM, and 256 GB of storage. After initial setup, I proceeded to put it through its paces and have been thoroughly impressed with it. As of right now, it is downloading the Windows installer to test out Boot Camp. The thermals have been fine and it is running a lot cooler than my older MacBook Pro during strenuous tests, and I do hear the fan click on intermittently when under load as it is designed to. It has never once gotten "hot" or made loud enough fan noise to be disruptive. It would not surprise me in the least if a lot of these "reviews" come from users of other brands that run the fan 24/7 by design with models with 15w CPUs. As for my experience, the Air seems to be doing just fine as do most of Apple's offerings. I will be sure to keep you all updated if that changes however as I fully intend to put it through its paces over the near future.
 

hutzi20

macrumors member
Sep 3, 2014
95
117
A little yes, but believe me it is worth to be sailing at 45º as I am doing now and with the Fans Control in car at 2650rpm which is inaudible !!! I tried without the back cover and it didn't work ... I can only test copper wire inserted in the refrigerator and end up on top of the turbine. Photo 39º
To me it looks like you are doing a lot of work for nothing... I have 7 tabs opened in the browser. Mail, Numbers, Pages with a big file are active and I hear music with Spotify. My temps are between 43 and 47° with the fan at 0 rpm
 

srkirt

Suspended
Apr 12, 2020
257
179
Barcelona
To me it looks like you are doing a lot of work for nothing... I have 7 tabs opened in the browser. Mail, Numbers, Pages with a big file are active and I hear music with Spotify. My temps are between 43 and 47° with the fan at 0 rpm

Now ... do the same thing playing this video at 4k 30fps and you capture it for me ...
 

esphil

macrumors regular
Oct 19, 2008
190
95
My i7/16gb 2015 mbp has the fan always at 2000rpm with temps near 70 without much open, and even when I'm in zoom the fan will spin up extremely loud.
 

Altemose

macrumors G3
Mar 26, 2013
9,189
488
Elkton, Maryland
Now ... do the same thing playing this video at 4k 30fps and you capture it for me ...

I ran that test under both Windows and macOS, with macOS hovering around 75-85 degrees according to Intel Power Gadget. Windows was slightly higher averaging 90 degrees. However, while the fans did come on, they were in no way annoying or out of line for the usage. Additionally, the bottom of the computer only got lukewarm at best.
 

srkirt

Suspended
Apr 12, 2020
257
179
Barcelona
[QUOTE = "Altemose, publicación: 28368952, miembro: 802837"]
Ejecuté esa prueba tanto en Windows como en macOS, con macOS oscilando alrededor de 75-85 grados según Intel Power Gadget. Windows fue un poco más alto con un promedio de 90 grados. Sin embargo, aunque los fanáticos sí lo hicieron, no eran molestos ni estaban fuera de lugar para el uso. Además, la parte inferior de la computadora solo se volvió tibia en el mejor de los casos.
[/CITAR]
😮😮😮😮👏👏👏👏
 

Altemose

macrumors G3
Mar 26, 2013
9,189
488
Elkton, Maryland
Is there any precedent for Apple to patch this or fix this with a software update?

Do you own one of these Airs? I am curious to see how other folks are doing while comparing software versions.

At last I have managed that the temp does not reach 100º even playing 4k at 60fps. at rest without ventilation it is at 32º. The only thing I have done this time is instead of having so much thick dissipating paste put a thin sheet of aluminum between the cpu and the heatsink. So now the contact is more effective, it transmits more heat to the heatsink, to the coins and the coins to the aluminum that I put in the cover. Crazy...

When your CPU is ramped up to 100 degrees, how hot is the bottom of the machine and how loud is the fan? Even at 100 degrees CPU temp according to Intel Power Gadget, the machine is a very comfortable lukewarm with minimal fan noise (thus far).
 

throAU

macrumors G3
Feb 13, 2012
9,139
7,297
Perth, Western Australia
I can't help thinking he and everybody else who declares the computer unusable just really expected Apple to sell a refreshed Macbook Pro for $999.

Nah. He's just after ad clicks. If someone says the same thing as everybody else on YouTube, they don't get viewer engagement and that's what drives revenue on YouTube.

Anyone watching reviews on YouTube needs to take them with a massive, massive pinch of salt, especially when reading the headlines, because like the mainstream news media - actual journalism went out the window a long time ago and now it is all about driving maximum ad revenue via clickbait. Even negative comments/feedback on a video generates revenue for the YouTuber.

Look at what the guys on YouTube are doing, ask yourself if it is a realistic test vs. what you would purchase the machine for and think for yourself. A Youtube review basically saying "yeah, it does what it says on the box" won't make anyone money.

Of course the MacBook Air isn't going to run games at the same frame rate as a (hot and loud and large) gaming laptop! If it did, it would be a hot, large, loud gaming laptop! The freaking POWER SUPPLY for some gaming laptops is as heavy as the MacBook Air.

I'm sure if he was to do the same test on a Surface Pro (even though its got PRO in the name, no less!) or Surface Laptop, he'd have exactly the same sort of results. That's the MacBook Air competitor, not a gaming machine.
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Now ... do the same thing playing this video at 4k 30fps and you capture it for me ...

As established earlier, this is an Apple vs. Google YouTube codec problem - it is forcing the MacBook to run in software decode for the VP9 video.

if you process 4k video using the platform appropriate codec (h.265 instead of VP9) you will not have that issue. If you play the content in safari at 1080p it uses an apple compatible codec and will not have that issue. 4k on a 2560x1600 screen makes no sense anyway.

But, if you're determined to play 4k content - go play some 4k content from the Apple TV app to compare.


edit:

Maybe what we should all do is petition apple to support the vp9 codec. The hardware supports it, it's a macOS deficiency that is preventing 4k video from working in a cool and quiet manner on YouTube. In this case, it is making their MacBook Air look bad. So one could argue that it is perhaps in their interests at this point to do something about it. I've hit them up on twitter about it.
 
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darkest.d

macrumors member
Sep 10, 2016
57
59
Brooklyn
Is yours a i5 model? I have noticed that with mine as well. If I have YouTube playing, open a new tab(safari) to go to a website, the temp will spike anywhere from 75-90c and kick on the fan(slight noise) for about 10-15 seconds.
Yup..the i5 quad core version. I wonder if we're supposed to go to the i3
 
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