Sidebar Sidebar
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

2023 Formula 1 Season thread

GossipGirl12 said:
It's worrying to hear that as many as six teams may have overspent during such an economically challenging time. I thinks It's more than important for the credibility of the sport that the rules are respected, and let’s just hope that the control and certification process will be done earlier than in previous years to ensure that any breaches are dealt with in a timely and credible manner.
Click to expand...

The only way it’ll be stopped is with stricter punishments and higher financial penalties. Maybe a pre season testing ban for next season and a -30 constructors points deduction. Red Bull’s penalty was laughable last year and made no difference to them whatsoever. That’s not a punishment and when you consider the astronomical penalty McLaren got back in 2007 for a rogue employee and no credible evidence data was even used in the design of the car, the FIA need to define a set of punishments that are consistent. If the penalty for breaching the cap is basically what Red Bull got last year, I think most of the bigger teams will see it as a manageable risk.
 
The-Real-Deal82 said:
The only way it’ll be stopped is with stricter punishments and higher financial penalties. Maybe a pre season testing ban for next season and a -30 constructors points deduction. Red Bull’s penalty was laughable last year and made no difference to them whatsoever. That’s not a punishment and when you consider the astronomical penalty McLaren got back in 2007 for a rogue employee and no credible evidence data was even used in the design of the car, the FIA need to define a set of punishments that are consistent. If the penalty for breaching the cap is basically what Red Bull got last year, I think most of the bigger teams will see it as a manageable risk.
Click to expand...
Last years judgement was that it was a minor breach; at 432K it really was. And still was penalised with a 15x multiple. A major breach will be way more impactful.

All teams agreed to this!
 
F1 is going to have to take inflation into account when these numbers are reviewed. Did teams make an effort to maintain the Cap but simply could not due to their increases in costs? Does a team get rid of engineers, cut promotional budgets, voluntarily reduce testing and development just to stay under the Cap?

Did teams simply go full steam ahead knowing full well they were going over due to rapidly rising costs for everything they utilize?

This will be extremely difficult for F1 to sort out, and depending on the investigations I could see a wide variety of consequences. Once again pointing out the flawed, dysfunctional state of F1 and the FIA.

F1 created this mess. They need to act as a “Fair Broker” straightening this out if ever possible. There needs to be some type of process where teams and F1 communicate through the year on costs due to inflation.
 
  • Like
Reactions: CWallace
Glideslope said:
F1 is going to have to take inflation into account when these numbers are reviewed. Did teams make an effort to maintain the Cap but simply could not due to their increases in costs? Does a team get rid of engineers, cut promotional budgets, voluntarily reduce testing and development just to stay under the Cap?

Did teams simply go full steam ahead knowing full well they were going over due to rapidly rising costs for everything they utilize?

This will be extremely difficult for F1 to sort out, and depending on the investigations I could see a wide variety of consequences. Once again pointing out the flawed, dysfunctional state of F1 and the FIA.

F1 created this mess. They need to act as a “Fair Broker” straightening this out if ever possible. There needs to be some type of process where teams and F1 communicate through the year on costs due to inflation.
Click to expand...
They agreed last year a 3.1% increase to cover inflation. I wouldn’t be surprise if a similar if not larger increase will be agreed this year.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Glideslope
cyb3rdud3 said:
They agreed last year a 3.1% increase to cover inflation.
Click to expand...

Trick is, the annual inflation rate for 2022 was twice that at 6.5%.




As glideslope noted from the report, if multiple teams go over the amount, I hope the FIA looks into where they went over. As Horner noted, fuel prices rose significantly across 2022 and for those teams that have a formal "lubricants" sponsor who covers most or all of that cost as part of their sponsorship deal, that is going to give them a fair bit of cover compared to teams who have to pay for their fuel and lubricants.

I do not think it would be fair to punish a team that went over only in areas that was strongly impacted by inflation but is necessary for a team to function, but does not improve performance (like fuel and food). On the flip side, I want to be sure that other teams that were protected (or had properly budgeted) for those areas doesn't use that as a cover to go over in areas that were not impacted by inflation to improve performance.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Glideslope and cyb3rdud3
CWallace said:
Trick is, the annual inflation rate for 2022 was twice that at 6.5%.




As glideslope noted from the report, if multiple teams go over the amount, I hope the FIA looks into where they went over. As Horner noted, fuel prices rose significantly across 2022 and for those teams that have a formal "lubricants" sponsor who covers most or all of that cost as part of their sponsorship deal, that is going to give them a fair bit of cover compared to teams who have to pay for their fuel and lubricants.

I do not think it would be fair to punish a team that went over only in areas that was strongly impacted by inflation but is necessary for a team to function, but does not improve performance (like fuel and food). On the flip side, I want to be sure that other teams that were protected (or had properly budgeted) for those areas doesn't use that as a cover to go over in areas that were not impacted by inflation to improve performance.
Click to expand...
True. The 3.1% was set in July and of-course the year wasn’t finished then. Perhaps a simpler method would be to just pick a government and track theirs. But also not easy with teams all over the world. So it is what it is.
 
Since most of the teams are based in the UK, I suppose the easiest would be to base it on the UK's annual Index of Inflation.
 
CWallace said:
Since most of the teams are based in the UK, I suppose the easiest would be to base it on the UK's annual Index of Inflation.
Click to expand...
That would make it interesting and provide a big advantage to Haas and Alpine. Whilst Red Bull, Mercedes and Ferrari are heavily penalised.

It’s complex, hence I think that doing this by agreement if the rate amongst the teams is pragmatic and fair.
 
CWallace said:
Since most of the teams are based in the UK, I suppose the easiest would be to base it on the UK's annual Index of Inflation.
Click to expand...

That’s currently 10.1% so does that mean teams like Mercedes, Red Bull, McLaren, Williams, Aston Martin, Haas and Alpine are given a more lenient punishment than the likes of Ferrari and Alfa Romeo who have the lower European rate? Not saying what I think just could get messy and even more inconsistent.
 
The-Real-Deal82 said:
That’s currently 10.1% so does that mean teams like Mercedes, Red Bull, McLaren, Williams, Aston Martin, Haas and Alpine are given a more lenient punishment than the likes of Ferrari and Alfa Romeo who have the lower European rate? Not saying what I think just could get messy and even more inconsistent.
Click to expand...
Mercedes, Red Bull, Haas and Alpine aren’t UK teams ;)
 
The-Real-Deal82 said:
That’s currently 10.1% so does that mean teams like Mercedes, Red Bull, McLaren, Williams, Aston Martin, Haas and Alpine are given a more lenient punishment than the likes of Ferrari and Alfa Romeo who have the lower European rate? Not saying what I think just could get messy and even more inconsistent.
Click to expand...

A fair point, but most F1 team main factories are located in the UK. The true outliers I believe are Ferrari (Italy) and Alfa (Switzerland and eventually Germany when they go to Audi).

Honestly, probably the easiest way to handle this would be for the FIA to state now that the 2023 Budget Cap will have to include all inflationary increases so teams have almost the full season to ensure they are under the cap.

Once that has been done, the FIA can then offer exceptions as necessary for 2022 overages that can be fully explained by higher inflation indexes than the 3.1% already accounted for.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Glideslope
CWallace said:
The main factory for Mercedes, Red Bull and Alpine are in the UK and while HAAS's is in the US, they do have a major UK factory presence.
Click to expand...
Ofcourse, but their licence isn’t in the UK. This is complex international accounting laced with anti double taxation legislation (well besides the USA) and all sorts.
 
CWallace said:
A fair point, but most F1 team main factories are located in the UK. The true outliers I believe are Ferrari (Italy) and Alfa (Switzerland and eventually Germany when they go to Audi).

Honestly, probably the easiest way to handle this would be for the FIA to state now that the 2023 Budget Cap will have to include all inflationary increases so teams have almost the full season to ensure they are under the cap.

Once that has been done, the FIA can then offer exceptions as necessary for 2022 overages that can be fully explained by higher inflation indexes than the 3.1% already accounted for.
Click to expand...

Indeed and all those teams file their accounts in the UK but under several different divisions I notice. Although they are heavily audited and since the budget cap has come into effect they are rigorously checked I’d imagine. I would think Ferrari and Alfa who are the only non-British teams might get a bit of an advantage due to where their manufacturing is done. Saying that there are companies in the UK that produce components for Scuderia Ferrari so it’s likely it’s the same for Alfa too. Maybe McLaren can do them a special price on CPU’s next year .
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: CWallace
Regardless of there the teams are licensed, their bases are in the UK. Which means they're subjected to UK rates of inflation in the supply chain - the majority of which is around Silverstone. They're also subject to the UKs abnormally high energy rates, which for businesses is even more ridiculous.
 
Akrapovic said:
Regardless of there the teams are licensed, their bases are in the UK. Which means they're subjected to UK rates of inflation in the supply chain - the majority of which is around Silverstone. They're also subject to the UKs abnormally high energy rates, which for businesses is even more ridiculous.
Click to expand...

Good point about the energy rates as these are astronomical compared to mainland Europe. Imagine the cost of baking all that carbon fibre right now .

These teams do get a bit of relief though being R&D companies though. I won’t say anymore though as it’s deemed political by this website. But you know what I mean lol.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Glideslope
The-Real-Deal82 said:
Good point about the energy rates as these are astronomical compared to mainland Europe. Imagine the cost of baking all that carbon fibre right now .

These teams do get a bit of relief though being R&D companies though. I won’t say anymore though as it’s deemed political by this website. But you know what I mean lol.
Click to expand...
It’s okay. They are using less carbon fibre this year since a certain driver didn’t get a seat!

In other F1 news did you see the Michael Schumacher interview turned out to be a fake created by AI.
The company is being sued. Quite right to.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Glideslope and The-Real-Deal82
Apple fanboy said:
It’s okay. They are using less carbon fibre this year since a certain driver didn’t get a seat!

In other F1 news did you see the Michael Schumacher interview turned out to be a fake created by AI.
The company is being sued. Quite right to.
Click to expand...

Yes, that was very distressing to find out. Loosing faith in Humanity by the day. AI will be the end of us. As a species we are not intelligent enough to use it to benefit our existence.

Just MO of course.
 
Glideslope said:
Superb Technical Deep Dive.


Click to expand...

Perhaps someone can inherit Alonso’s comment about F1 cars feeling as slow as GP2 cars by then. I’m aware F1 has to stay in touch with consumer car technologies to some degree, but it’s painful to see the glory days of F1 being about speed and power fading away. The hybrid engines make the cars sound like lawnmowers and I’ve tried to explain to younger people I know who have never heard a V12, V10 or a V8 screaming down the Hangar Straight at Silverstone and the immense feeling you get in your gut from it. I think I’m going to struggle to get my fill from F1 by then and just hope Road Racing stays pure and unaffected as that’s been my other true passion since I was a kid.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Glideslope
The-Real-Deal82 said:
Perhaps someone can inherit Alonso’s comment about F1 cars feeling as slow as GP2 cars by then. I’m aware F1 has to stay in touch with consumer car technologies to some degree, but it’s painful to see the glory days of F1 being about speed and power fading away. The hybrid engines make the cars sound like lawnmowers and I’ve tried to explain to younger people I know who have never heard a V12, V10 or a V8 screaming down the Hangar Straight at Silverstone and the immense feeling you get in your gut from it. I think I’m going to struggle to get my fill from F1 by then and just hope Road Racing stays pure and unaffected as that’s been my other true passion since I was a kid.
Click to expand...

Could not agree more.
 
  • Like
Reactions: The-Real-Deal82
You must log in or register to reply here.
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.
Top Bottom
Back