2023 Formula 1 Season thread

[Populus]

Lewis would never park the car. He doesn't have a deal for next year yet. Given the rumors of a 5yr demand by him have gone silent I'd say he will continue to do his best with the mess he has.

I'm still of the opinion he is still seriously considering walking away if the W14 is still a POS after this season. There has also been a noticeable change in his post race interviews since the contract talks have stalled again.

He is much less animated, and cheerleading for the team. He's just "it is what it is" after the last 2 races. Obviously he has valid reasons for this.

I don't see the fire in his eyes any longer. It's not just the Team causing it. I believe he could do allot of positive things in the world if he focused on Mission 44 Full Time.

Agree, I don’t see that fire in the eyes of Hamilton like he used to have. I see that fire on Fernando this year, and I can understand why, but Louis seems to not care as much as in the past. Maybe he has personal/family problems, maybe he’s just burn out or tired, I don’t know.

By the way, there’s been a constant rumor of him going to Ferrari to end his career… Does this make any sense? Sadly I don’t see Carlos for much longer on the Scuderia, so there would be a place for him in the near future, but I don’t see him as a Ferrari pilot (probably because he’s always been associated with Mercedes). Do you think Hamilton would be a good Ferrari pilot?

 

[CWallace]

Sky says "different car next week at Silverstone.." really.. What is going to change in less than 3 days? Cars have to be ready for the FIA eagle eyed inspectors Thursday...

The factory is almost across the street from Silverstone so they can prototype and produce new parts same day as opposed to having to air ship them to The Continent which allows them to literally make adjustments between the end of FP2 on Friday and the start of FP3 on Saturday. They could possibly even get something done between FP3 and the cars going into parc fermé before Qualifying, but I would expect them not wanting to run an untested part.

I'm still of the opinion (Lewis) is still seriously considering walking away if the W14 is still a POS after this season. There has also been a noticeable change in his post race interviews since the contract talks have stalled again.

He is much less animated, and cheerleading for the team. He's just "it is what it is" after the last 2 races. Obviously he has valid reasons for this.

I don't see the fire in his eyes any longer. It's not just the Team causing it. I believe he could do allot of positive things in the world if he focused on Mission 44 Full Time.

Agree, I don’t see that fire in the eyes of Hamilton like he used to have. I see that fire on Fernando this year, and I can understand why, but Louis seems to not care as much as in the past. Maybe he has personal/family problems, maybe he’s just burn out or tired, I don’t know.

I kind of feel Max could win 2024 and 2025 if he, the car and the team stay as strong as they are now. Which means 2026 could be the first chance Lewis has to win his 8th when the new engine and chassis rules kick in. At that point, I could see him asking if a) is it worth staying in the sport through 2026 for such a chance, and b) will he still have the fire to push for an 8th in 2026 if the car can deliver it? So I could see him thinking that this year or next could be time to retire.

By the way, there’s been a constant rumor of him going to Ferrari to end his career… Does this make any sense? Sadly I don’t see Carlos for much longer on the Scuderia, so there would be a place for him in the near future, but I don’t see him as a Ferrari pilot (probably because he’s always been associated with Mercedes). Do you think Hamilton would be a good Ferrari pilot?

Personally, I don't think it will happen. One, Ferrari still does not seem to have their act fully together and Lewis has a solid relationship with AMG so why trade that for the pressure of integrating with a new team? Also, I am not sure Ferrari was truly serious about their offer this year (since they supposedly offered no more, and perhaps even less, than what AMG is said to be offering). Some believe it was just a PR stunt to try and divert attention away from their continued on-track struggles or perhaps "doing a Marko" and using it to apply pressure to LeClerc and Sainz to improve their performance.

 

[Glideslope]

Agree, I don’t see that fire in the eyes of Hamilton like he used to have. I see that fire on Fernando this year, and I can understand why, but Louis seems to not care as much as in the past. Maybe he has personal/family problems, maybe he’s just burn out or tired, I don’t know.

By the way, there’s been a constant rumor of him going to Ferrari to end his career… Does this make any sense? Sadly I don’t see Carlos for much longer on the Scuderia, so there would be a place for him in the near future, but I don’t see him as a Ferrari pilot (probably because he’s always been associated with Mercedes). Do you think Hamilton would be a good Ferrari pilot?

Lewis will not go to Ferrari. Ferrari its not serious. As CW mentioned he is too established with Mercedes. IMO, it's Mercedes only. I disagree with CW that he will wait for the 2026 W17. But, I've been wrong many times over the years.

F1 Drivers are a unique Subset of the Human Species.

 

[pachyderm]

Well written reality based post.

I can't tell if you're mocking hm or not...

 

[Glideslope]

I can't tell if you're mocking hm or not...

No mocking. Was a very well assembled post. IMO.

 

[pachyderm]

No mocking. Was a very well assembled post. IMO.

It was.

 

[JustinePaula]

Yeah, a 7 times world driver champ and he cannot get a deal, that blows, but really he must know he is in for more of the same in 24, like Alonso was in Mclaren, at some point he should either not drive or find some new team, Mercs are not going to improve, with his comment that development of new cars should only start after a certain date, that speaks to his conclusion that 1-the 2024 Merc is already non viable, 2- He knows Red Bull will win the season long before 1/2 way through.. If not why would he demand that new car development only start after the mid season break??

He loved the fact he was the only driver winning, the regs changed, and he is now a mid field runner, getting points through misfortune, the 2024 car will be just as poor as this year.. I think he is bored with the whole thing, there are at least 6 other drivers as talented as he is, waiting, that could prove a better investment than the £40m Lewis is demanding, and he is not delivering..

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Yeah, a 7 times world driver champ and he cannot get a deal, that blows, but really he must know he is in for more of the same in 24, like Alonso was in Mclaren, at some point he should either not drive or find some new team, Mercs are not going to improve, with his comment that development of new cars should only start after a certain date, that speaks to his conclusion that 1-the 2024 Merc is already non viable, 2- He knows Red Bull will win the season long before 1/2 way through.. If not why would he demand that new car development only start after the mid season break??

He loved the fact he was the only driver winning, the regs changed, and he is now a mid field runner, getting points through misfortune, the 2024 car will be just as poor as this year.. I think he is bored with the whole thing, there are at least 6 other drivers as talented as he is, waiting, that could prove a better investment than the £40m Lewis is demanding, and he is not delivering..

I don’t think anybody knows whether contract negotiations have stalled or whether it’s Lewis or Mercedes who may or may not have committed to anything. It’s all speculation at this point. Hamilton is a valuable addition to their brand whether they are winning or not with his off track appeal too and it was once said that a blonde German kid doesn’t sell you cars in North America but Lewis does. How correct that is, I could t tell you but it says how much power a driver can have.

Who are the ‘at least 6 drivers as talented as he is waiting’ who Mercedes should be considering for less money btw? I’m intrigued.

 

[Populus]

It was.

I really don’t know what you’re talking about, or what inside joke you’re doing here, but I’m not a native English speaker and also I don’t come to this thread to elaborate texts that have to pass a quality control, just to talk about F1 🤷🏻

Oh and by the way, I realized long ago that I’ve been writing Louis instead of Lewis. I’m fully aware.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

I really don’t know what you’re talking about, or what inside joke you’re doing here, but I’m not a native English speaker and also I don’t come to this thread to elaborate texts that have to pass a quality control, just to talk about F1 🤷🏻

Oh and by the way, I realized long ago that I’ve been writing Louis instead of Lewis. I’m fully aware.

It’s ok 👍 I understand, I’m also a non native English speaker. Louis is the standard autocorrect for me. So it happens. No big deal 👍

Also don’t think anyone had any bad intentions with the comment. Although there are a few who don’t like any critical review of Lewis, just ignore them.

 

[JustinePaula]

I don’t think anybody knows whether contract negotiations have stalled or whether it’s Lewis or Mercedes who may or may not have committed to anything. It’s all speculation at this point. Hamilton is a valuable addition to their brand whether they are winning or not with his off track appeal too and it was once said that a blonde German kid doesn’t sell you cars in North America but Lewis does. How correct that is, I could t tell you but it says how much power a driver can have.

Who are the ‘at least 6 drivers as talented as he is waiting’ who Mercedes should be considering for less money btw? I’m intrigued.

Look Lewis is an average driver, he has only raced in 2 teams, had success in both of them, he is nowhere as talented as say Jenson Button, nor does he have the desire to even try... He won when he was the only car on the track, he also lost to the only other driver capable of beating him, as that bloke was in the same team..

As soon as the regs change, Merc end up mid pack, Lewis moans about everything, the band is too loud, the car too slow, the brakes, the weather too sunny, too cold, had Lewis raced in the 1950-1980 era, he might have lasted 1 season, maybe done a baby Rosberg, one title wonder..

He is hoping for new regs as this current pdf sucks.. Something he just cannot handle is that Merc built a dud, and that confuses him...

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Look Lewis is an average driver, he has only raced in 2 teams, had success in both of them, he is nowhere as talented as say Jenson Button, nor does he have the desire to even try... He won when he was the only car on the track, he also lost to the only other driver capable of beating him, as that bloke was in the same team..

As soon as the regs change, Merc end up mid pack, Lewis moans about everything, the band is too loud, the car too slow, the brakes, the weather too sunny, too cold, had Lewis raced in the 1950-1980 era, he might have lasted 1 season, maybe done a baby Rosberg, one title wonder..

He is hoping for new regs as this current pdf sucks.. Something he just cannot handle is that Merc built a dud, and that confuses him...

I respectfully disagree with everything you say, and do not feel it would be a wise use of my time to even try and counter your points as I have no interest in trying to change your mind. All the best.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

Look Lewis is an average driver, he has only raced in 2 teams, had success in both of them, he is nowhere as talented as say Jenson Button, nor does he have the desire to even try... He won when he was the only car on the track, he also lost to the only other driver capable of beating him, as that bloke was in the same team..

As soon as the regs change, Merc end up mid pack, Lewis moans about everything, the band is too loud, the car too slow, the brakes, the weather too sunny, too cold, had Lewis raced in the 1950-1980 era, he might have lasted 1 season, maybe done a baby Rosberg, one title wonder..

He is hoping for new regs as this current pdf sucks.. Something he just cannot handle is that Merc built a dud, and that confuses him...

I think his track record and also his current positions demonstrate that he is not average driver. He is pretty awesome. Yes, he is a telltale but hey you’ve got that in every sport.

I am no fan of his but I can appreciate he is a great driver.

 

[JustinePaula]

I respectfully disagree with everything you say, and do not feel it would be a wise use of my time to even try and counter your points as I have no interest in trying to change your mind. All the best.

One should not be satisfied with just one point of view, Why do you think he is not as I say he is, there is no proof he is anything other than average, yes he has won 7 titles, in an era when there was only one other driver capable.. We will never know how he measured up in the 1950 to 1970 era, would he have survived a race./season? The number of titles is no measure, it proves he was there, that is all, it is like getting cum laude at uni, it proves your attendance, competence comes can you do the job without the safety of the professors?? The number of titles someone wins has no merit on competence, as well there are so many factors that determine ability, how much of his driving is his, and not that of the team behind him? Take away all the toys, a straight petrol engine, manual gearbox, hand clutch, skinny tyres on a damp track, slight mist.. 30 cars on the grid.. I wonder... Not trying to convince you, but for you to question what is it that you believe?? Steak or sizzle??

 

[ericwn]

Look Lewis is an average driver, he has only raced in 2 teams, had success in both of them, he is nowhere as talented as say Jenson Button, nor does he have the desire to even try... He won when he was the only car on the track, he also lost to the only other driver capable of beating him, as that bloke was in the same team..

As soon as the regs change, Merc end up mid pack, Lewis moans about everything, the band is too loud, the car too slow, the brakes, the weather too sunny, too cold, had Lewis raced in the 1950-1980 era, he might have lasted 1 season, maybe done a baby Rosberg, one title wonder..

He is hoping for new regs as this current pdf sucks.. Something he just cannot handle is that Merc built a dud, and that confuses him...

As much as I like JB and his one time success story based on good equipment, the track record disagrees with your opinion on the capabilities of LH.

 

[pachyderm]

I really don’t know what you’re talking about, or what inside joke you’re doing here, but I’m not a native English speaker and also I don’t come to this thread to elaborate texts that have to pass a quality control, just to talk about F1 🤷🏻

Oh and by the way, I realized long ago that I’ve been writing Louis instead of Lewis. I’m fully aware.

You did fine. I seriously can't tell with some people on here sometimes. Bad joke on my part. I apologise.

Now... This thread has reverted back to the "is LH a great driver or was his car greater..?".

Lord.

This is exactly how horrible F1 is these days. It's so boring that we have to find something to discuss because the outcome to the races is so predictable!

 

[laptech]

In my opinion Lewis somewhat decline in F1 is and was due to his persistence in the BLM movement trying to force everyone in F1 to come around to his way of thinking and when they didn't, he made it worse by going public to the media outing his fellow F1 drivers for not showing their support for BLM and for the sport in general for not showing their support in BLM. He received a lot of backlash from many of his fellow drivers saying that they will show their support in their way and not how Lewis tells them how they should. Ever since then Lewis has not seemed to be his usual self. You could see the hunger in his eyes, wanting to get that 8th championship but his current body language is totally different. What could also be a factor is having one of his long time trusted support workers leaving to go do her own thing. Angella Cullen (performance coach) was a huge part of Lewis life and success and I have no doubt her leaving has left a huge void in his heart and his continued success.

As for the car, in the past Lewis has always found ways to get the best out of a bad performing car but the past couple of years he has seriously struggled. The BLM issue, seeing the majority of those involved in the sport he loves to not take his side and Ms Cullen leaving has affected him in many ways in my opinion and it is going to take time for him to get his 'hunger' back'.

Also, Lewis age is going against him. He is 38 and there have not been many drivers in the modern era of F1 that have won the championship of his age and over (Mansell (39), Prost (38)), so Lewis probably has only probably a realistic 2 years left to try and win the title again before his body says enough is enough.

So, with all that said and what has gone on with his life in the past couple of years, BLM, Cullen, his aging years (now 38), could the body language we are seeing from him be telling us that he is winding down knowing his body is past it and it's time to retire?

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

One should not be satisfied with just one point of view, Why do you think he is not as I say he is, there is no proof he is anything other than average, yes he has won 7 titles, in an era when there was only one other driver capable.. We will never know how he measured up in the 1950 to 1970 era, would he have survived a race./season? The number of titles is no measure, it proves he was there, that is all, it is like getting cum laude at uni, it proves your attendance, competence comes can you do the job without the safety of the professors?? The number of titles someone wins has no merit on competence, as well there are so many factors that determine ability, how much of his driving is his, and not that of the team behind him? Take away all the toys, a straight petrol engine, manual gearbox, hand clutch, skinny tyres on a damp track, slight mist.. 30 cars on the grid.. I wonder... Not trying to convince you, but for you to question what is it that you believe?? Steak or sizzle??

Its a fruitless exercise trying to compare drivers across different era's in F1 as there is no quantifiable metric that can be used other than subjective opinions. How can Senna be compared to Clarke or Stewart, Fangio etc? They can't because they drove different cars at different times, had different fitness levels, drove a different number of races etc etc. It is pointless even trying to justify a response to be honest. Hamilton is not an average driver by any stretch of the imagination. No driver produces the consistency and dominance over team mates throughout his career like he has and is considered average. He has won 12 championships in his career and sure he has been outscored by a teammate on a few ocassions, but his record for dominating teammates is a lot more impressive. Button beat him once in 3 seasons and Rosberg once in four for instance. If you think he is average, then I can't really help you on that.

 

[JustinePaula]

You are 100% correct, there is no viable metric, it just so happens that Lewis has driven in an era of one team domination, his car at the time was just so much above the rest, almost a 2 car championship... We have seen this more than once, M Schumacher, the rules changed to prevent over domination, the FIA/F1 have tried this and that to try and level the playing field, to get more teams closer, then something happened, Merc went from winner winner chicken dinner to dog's breakfast in 1 season.. As soon as the regs changed, Lewis went from winning to mid pack..

There is not enough data points to call him great, I am contrasting his achievement over the life of the formula, how would he fair, At the end of the day it is really a moot point as to who is the best of the best, there is simply no measure to quantify, but to use the number of titles won is really not a useful metric, as who was he in competition with? If there is a sport in which teams compete, that is 100% US based, calling it a "world" series makes no sense, as the world is not competing.. A champion needs to beat competitors, when you win as you have something that is way beyond the competition, how can that be a realistic representation? I am sure Lewis is acutely aware of this, and maybe feels that burn..

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

You are 100% correct, there is no viable metric, it just so happens that Lewis has driven in an era of one team domination, his car at the time was just so much above the rest....

Where in F1 history have we seen drivers winning consecutive World titles in cars that were outright better than the opposition I wonder? Hmmmm... Fangio, Brabham, Stewart, Lauda, Prost, Piquet, Senna, Schumacher, Alonso, Vettel, Hamilton and now Verstappen? Are they all average because they worked in and drove for teams who produced a package that enabled them to dominate? Ignoring their pre F1 records where they dominated and made it into the sport based on merit of course.

Lets face it, dominant drivers in dominant teams have run through the DNA of Grand Prix racing since engineers have been able to build competitive racing cars. Lewis is not unique in that he has just been lucky for the past 25 years and found himself dominating his teammates and landing in competive cars. There is a reason the likes of Lewis, Max, Fernando etc get to where they are now and its because they are the 'best' in the right package against their contemporaries and this is the key to their success.

 

[Glideslope]

You are 100% correct, there is no viable metric, it just so happens that Lewis has driven in an era of one team domination, his car at the time was just so much above the rest, almost a 2 car championship... We have seen this more than once, M Schumacher, the rules changed to prevent over domination, the FIA/F1 have tried this and that to try and level the playing field, to get more teams closer, then something happened, Merc went from winner winner chicken dinner to dog's breakfast in 1 season.. As soon as the regs changed, Lewis went from winning to mid pack..

There is not enough data points to call him great, I am contrasting his achievement over the life of the formula, how would he fair, At the end of the day it is really a moot point as to who is the best of the best, there is simply no measure to quantify, but to use the number of titles won is really not a useful metric, as who was he in competition with? If there is a sport in which teams compete, that is 100% US based, calling it a "world" series makes no sense, as the world is not competing.. A champion needs to beat competitors, when you win as you have something that is way beyond the competition, how can that be a realistic representation? I am sure Lewis is acutely aware of this, and maybe feels that burn..

While I can't agree with all your points on Lewis, I do agree with a few. I also sense that confusion with Lewis you mentioned. He is at a point in his career, IMO, where he really doesn't understand what Mercedes issues are. I don't think any of us do other than IMO, it's a downforce/balance design issue.

He really looked like a Deere in Headlights after the race. I also agree that his definitely feels that burn as well. So, it's tough for him. I do think he has earned the right to be associated with the great drivers of the Modern Era. I don't like comparing drivers from different Eras in F1.

I'm sure his close friendship with Toto doesn't help. I don't care for Team Principles especially when they have an ownership stake in the team being too close to their drivers. Toto has spent that past few days explaining his comment to Lewis over the radio on "drive the car." That wouldn't be happening if they were not so close.

Just another stressor Lewis has to deal with. Mind you, I'm not defending him. I just think at this point all Teams and Drivers feel the burn of the RB19/Honda and Max. It's just on another planet.

 

[CWallace]

Look Lewis is an average driver, he has only raced in 2 teams, had success in both of them, he is nowhere as talented as say Jenson Button, nor does he have the desire to even try...

I like Jenson Button as a bloke, but he had one win and three poles in six seasons with Honda. He would have been equally nowhere in 2009 if not for Ross Brawn's development of the Double Diffuser which made the car a dominant force. And even then, as soon as the other teams installed double defusers in Round 8, he was on the podium only twice in the final ten rounds and held off Seb by 11 points. If the season was of a similar length as it is now, Seb would have five titles, not four, and Jenson would have zero.

He had a decent start at McLaren with eight wins in the first three seasons, but then faded into irrelevance with the next five, though I will give him a bit of a break because of how terrible the Honda engine was. And yes, he finished higher in the WDC in 2011 than Lewis did, but Lewis finished higher in 2010, 2012 and 2013. Not exactly a ringing endorsement of Button as a more talented teammate, IMO.

And let us not forget Lewis likely would have won the WDC in his debut year (2007) if not for staying out too long in China on worn tires in the rain and DNFing in the gravel trap at Pit In. Of course, one could argue he only won in 2008 because of Glock being on dry tires in the rain during that final lap at Interlagos, so swings and roundabouts, I guess.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

While I can't agree with all your points on Lewis, I do agree with a few. I also sense that confusion with Lewis you mentioned. He is at a point in his career, IMO, where he really doesn't understand what Mercedes issues are. I don't think any of us do other than IMO, it's a downforce/balance design issue.

He really looked like a Deere in Headlights after the race. I also agree that his definitely feels that burn as well. So, it's tough for him. I do think he has earned the right to be associated with the great drivers of the Modern Era. I don't like comparing drivers from different Eras in F1.

I'm sure his close friendship with Toto doesn't help. I don't care for Team Principles especially when they have an ownership stake in the team being too close to their drivers. Toto has spent that past few days explaining his comment to Lewis over the radio on "drive the car." That wouldn't be happening if they were not so close.

Just another stressor Lewis has to deal with. Mind you, I'm not defending him. I just think at this point all Teams and Drivers feel the burn of the RB19/Honda and Max. It's just on another planet.

Well said. And yes, including Checo!

 

[Glideslope]

Well said. And yes, including Checo!

I think we will see a resurgence of Sergio. Time will tell.........

 

[cyb3rdud3]

I think we will see a resurgence of Sergio. Time will tell.........

Yes, hopefully. I'm still doubtful about his stamina, he can be a great driver but also seems not to be as hungry and focussed. And at times pushes himself too hard, doesn't think, and makes mistakes.

Look at last weekend, repeatedly he planned his overtake wrongly, making it unnecessary hard for himself.

But to be fair I think he is a top 3 driver this season, at this moment in time I think he actually has most to 'fear' from Hamilton.