2023 Formula 1 Season thread

[CWallace]

Article in CNN Business yesterday on the plummeting ticket prices to try and sell more. True F1 aficionados see it for what it is. A One Show Pony.

I doubt this race was ever meant for "F1 aficionados". That seems to have gone out the window in the 2000s when Bernie (and now, Liberty) decided that F1 should only appeal in-person to the wealthy. The teams and drivers go along with it because they benefit financially, as well.

I hope they generate enough future revenue from it to warrant the 500 million its cost the F1 to put on, apparently no sponsors are paying that 500 mil, it’s all out of the F1 pocket.

Future events should be significantly less to run, since much of the cost is front-loaded. If it proves popular with the social-media crowd, that will bring the sponsors running for future events. I see F1 hoping Vegas and Miami become the next Monaco - a place where sponsors are whined and dined and large deals are made.

Having cars on track is just to provide an excuse for everyone to show up.

Toto has banned all team members from gambling haha. I saw a promo photo of Lando, in his racing overalls, playing roulette 😂🤣😂🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️.

The "local financial impact" to the casinos and major restaurant and retail establishments is probably going to make or break this race long-term (as in will it actually run it's full contracted length). If the "fans" don't spend, I doubt they are going to support the disruption setting up, running and tearing-down the event imposes on their operations.

Caesar's Palace agreed to host a race in1981 because they expected the fans to spend their time in the casino when not in the stands, but that didn't really happen so after 1982 they wanted to underwrite it and it became a CART event (and only then for two years).

Lewis just knows how things work in F1 in this case. It's only about the money for the organizers.

To be fair, the teams make a fair bit from the Circus and drivers like Lewis benefit from that largesse, as well. Good on him for acknowledging it.

Another point that has been raised is the fact from here next weekend is in a country that is 11 times zones away from Vegas! They all have to cope with jet lag but yeah by the last race they'll all be well and truly knackered I imagine.

I really feel for the team staff, who will have to break down and pack everything onto 747s and then board commercial flights and pretty much the moment they land in AUH, start setting up. And unlike the cargo, they don't fly non-stop (as I believe everything commercial between LAS and AUH has a connection).

 

[JustinePaula]

Why would any team other than Red Bull put any effort into 2023 to 2025? There is zero benefit, you know the cars and regs change for 2026, the teams are obligated to show up, to perform, like the old cage lions, put on a show, but at no point spend $1 more than is the minimum to fool us..

F1 has lost the plot, it is no more a show than Rocky was a fight for a title, F1 is a circus, Lewis and the 19 other drivers are actors [more like clowns in clown cars..they are, but that is not fair..] They are there 100% for the brand building, and the pay, the $$.. As some a couple posts back "Fartin Trundle" just further adds to the whole circus vibe of the thing that is F1.. Having been at a circus where someone died, and the chaos that followed, as well circus clowns don't deal well with accidents and deaths well.. F1/FIA feels like it is an out of control circus.. Just one accident away from meltdown.. Stupid improv like "sprints" and goons demanding shakedowns or.. for a 90 minute event.. Fiasco..

 

[JustinePaula]

Drain cover/red flag, session ended early... Clowns in charge? They had a year to check.. and Ferrari...I am sure legals are right now laptops out, briefs being emailed... This is happened in Baku, Williams, then the towie hitting the bridge, and leaking hydraulic fluid all over the car...

 

[JustinePaula]

What I don't get is this... The US has Indycar, 90% of the season is run on street tracks, they are used to streets, drains, high downforce ground effect, so what the FIA is saying, there is no one, not a single human within the greater motorsport industry that would have been able to consult to ensure safe track re the drains..

 

[headlessmike]

What I don't get is this... The US has Indycar, 90% of the season is run on street tracks, they are used to streets, drains, high downforce ground effect, so what the FIA is saying, there is no one, not a single human within the greater motorsport industry that would have been able to consult to ensure safe track re the drains..

From what I read on the official F1 site, it wasn't the manhole cover itself that caused the problem but the concrete road surface around it that let go. Not a good look either way though.

 

[JustinePaula]

The bloke that certifies the track for the St Pete event, Toronto, Detroit, where not book him for a day's wage, and a big mac burger voucher.. Liberty forgot about the track clearly..

 

[Akrapovic]

From what I read on the official F1 site, it wasn't the manhole cover itself that caused the problem but the concrete road surface around it that let go. Not a good look either way though.

It is a valve cover for the main waterline down the strap. It was welded in, as per other events, but you're spot on - the concrete broke.

 

[JustinePaula]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1725412647766491213

And Ferrari Fred swears, just how long to send the email with the bill listing parts.. No way that any F1 team should carry this cost, Liberty/F1/FIA should carry insurance for this... They spent $500 000 or more for the track etc, no way any team should be punished for this, and the scam carries on, 90 minutes at 2am, where are the sane rational adults in the room.. ???

 

[headlessmike]

... where are the sane rational adults in the room..

Not sure that there are any on the Strip in Las Vegas (technically Paradise, Nevada).

 

[headlessmike]

Glad to see that Sainz is able to run FP2. But he is apparently facing the usual grid penalties for having to run a new power unit in addition to the new chassis because of the incident in FP1. Seems a bit harsh given the circumstances.

 

[Glideslope]

I really feel for the team staff, who will have to break down and pack everything onto 747s and then board commercial flights and pretty much the moment they land in AUH, start setting up. And unlike the cargo, they don't fly non-stop (as I believe everything commercial between LAS and AUH has a connection).

Correct. No direct routes from LAS to AUH. The shortest route given ideal conditions is to stop at ZRH. They have 8 744’s for 2023. Not sure who F1 Logistics charters through in 2023. It used to be DHL.

EK is the Official Partner of F1 this year, but as they only have 2 744-F’s unlikely Sky Cargo is involved.

 

[Pezimak]

FYI they designed and set up and built the new Vegas track in less then a year, so don’t be too surprised for, er, any issues with it….

 

[Glideslope]

Glad to see that Sainz is able to run FP2. But he is apparently facing the usual grid penalties for having to run a new power unit in addition to the new chassis because of the incident in FP1. Seems a bit harsh given the circumstances.

The Stewards acknowledged in their Official Reply that "If it were solely up to them they would not have administered the 10 Place Grid Penalty." "However they have no discretion with Regulation in this event."

 

[headlessmike]

The Stewards acknowledged in their Official Reply that "If it were solely up to them they would not have administered the 10 Place Grid Penalty." "However they have no discretion with Regulation in this event."

Yeah, it's not the stewards' fault. The regulations are there to prevent a team from gaining a competitive advantage from incidents like this. Perhaps Ferarri will compensated in some other way, but it's not a given.

 

[Don Quixote]

Sainz/Ferrari should not have any grid penalties!

That nonsense is on F1/FIA imho.

 

[CWallace]

Drain cover/red flag, session ended early... Clowns in charge? They had a year to check.. and Ferrari...I am sure legals are right now laptops out, briefs being emailed... This is happened in Baku, Williams, then the towie hitting the bridge, and leaking hydraulic fluid all over the car...

Except they didn't have "a year to check" - they were literally paving the front straight within the last two weeks.

And as others have noted, we have had welded manhole covers and other infrastructure come loose at other street events which has caused delays and cancellations in Free Practices and probably even Qualifying. Heck, maybe even races.

Glad to see that Sainz is able to run FP2. But he is apparently facing the usual grid penalties for having to run a new power unit in addition to the new chassis because of the incident in FP1. Seems a bit harsh given the circumstances.

It is harsh given the circumstances, but as you noted in a subsequent reply, the regulations are written to prevent a team from deliberately trying to fabricate an "incident" that would allow them to change components without a penalty if the regulations were not as strict as they are.

So just bad luck, but then that's been Ferrari all year, hasn't it?

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

I remember Montoya hitting a loose drain cover during the 2005 Chinese GP and it pierced the cockpit of the car. He was lucky not to be seriously injured. George Russell also hit one in his Williams a few years ago destroying the back floor of his car. You’d think this would be checked more rigorously than it is considering how common it seems to be.

 

[Aggedor]

What I don't get is this... The US has Indycar, 90% of the season is run on street tracks, they are used to streets, drains, high downforce ground effect, so what the FIA is saying, there is no one, not a single human within the greater motorsport industry that would have been able to consult to ensure safe track re the drains..

Not correct. Indycar - a far superior motorsport to F1, btw - had 17 races in 2023, and only 5 were street circuits. So that's 29.4% street circuits, or less than one third.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Reporter: ‘So was it a fun track to drive, did you enjoy it!’

Max: ‘No, I’ve had better tracks in my life’….

Reminds me of the first ever race at Yas Marina when Kimi was asked if he liked the track and he essentially said turn 1 is cool but it’s gets bad after that .

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Not correct. Indycar - a far superior motorsport to F1, btw - had 17 races in 2023, and only 5 were street circuits. So that's 29.4% street circuits, or less than one third.

Superior in regard to excitement? Obviously IndyCar inferior to F1 in terms of technology, aero and mechanical grip, which is why it’s a much slower series. Just interested as it’s not often I hear what you’ve claimed.

 

[CWallace]

I remember Montoya hitting a loose drain cover during the 2005 Chinese GP and it pierced the cockpit of the car. He was lucky not to be seriously injured. George Russell also hit one in his Williams a few years ago destroying the back floor of his car. You’d think this would be checked more rigorously than it is considering how common it seems to be.

I hear what you are saying, but not sure what they could do other than maybe put a powerful electromagnet over them to see if that can lift them up to detect faulty or poor welds. As we know, the amount of suction the undersides of the car generate are massive and sometimes things fail. That being said, I would not be surprised if the limited time available for the fresh track/road surface to seal played a role in what happened.

I will say the spectator videos of Carlos hitting it are crazy - the entire underside of the car looks like it explodes in sparks and flames for a moment. How Alonso missed hitting it just ahead of Carlos is...well, I guess it is a testament to Alonso as a driver, isn't it? (And this is not to throw any shade at Carlos).

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

I hear what you are saying, but not sure what they could do other than maybe put a powerful electromagnet over them to see if that can lift them up to detect faulty or poor welds. As we know, the amount of suction the undersides of the car generate are massive and sometimes things fail. That being said, I would not be surprised if the limited time available for the fresh track/road surface to seal played a role in what happened.

I will say the spectator videos of Carlos hitting it are crazy - the entire underside of the car looks like it explodes in sparks and flames for a moment. How Alonso missed hitting it just ahead of Carlos is...well, I guess it is a testament to Alonso as a driver, isn't it? (And this is not to throw any shade at Carlos).

It wasn’t the welds that were the issue, it was the concrete used around it that crumbled and it came loose. Actually use race grade asphalt and a cover with a larger underside footing would have prevented this.

 

[Aggedor]

Superior in regard to excitement? Obviously IndyCar inferior to F1 in terms of technology, aero and mechanical grip, which is why it’s a much slower series. Just interested as it’s not often I hear what you’ve claimed.

I was an absolute diehard F1 fan, and then Sky UK started showing IndyCar. Yes, absolutely inferior in terms of technology, but the cars are all identical (save for tuning and setup - there are two engine manufacturers, which are more or less identical), so it's a level playing field and a showcase for driving ability, not which manufacturer has the most money.

The lower tech and aero also has significant advantages in terms of racing. There are more overtakes in a single IndyCar race than in an entire F1 season, and the wheel-to-wheel action is something F1 can only dream of. As a motorsport fan, I've never been on the edge of my seat like I have been with IndyCar.

The ovals are possibly the most exciting races. For all the jokes about "oh yeah, IndyCars driving around in a circle, wow", they are so hard that rookie drivers are not allowed to race them the first year, and then when they do, they get special training and certification.

F1 is just so incredibly dull in comparison. And I say this as an F1 fan. If you long for on-track action that is actually race action, not a procession with a predictable result, give IndyCar a try.

Edit: With regard to speed, you are correct (although I wouldn't say MUCH slower), except I believe an IndyCar on an oval can exceed the top speed of an F1 car (240mph vs 220mph).

 

[Pezimak]

It's the downforce which sucks the manhole covers up. Always has been an issue with the areo since it existed if I recall. They need to REALLY make sure they are solid and won't budge, including the surrounding tarmac and concrete.

 

[Pezimak]

I was an absolute diehard F1 fan, and then Sky UK started showing IndyCar. Yes, absolutely inferior in terms of technology, but the cars are all identical (save for tuning and setup - there are two engine manufacturers, which are more or less identical), so it's a level playing field and a showcase for driving ability, not which manufacturer has the most money.

The lower tech and aero also has significant advantages in terms of racing. There are more overtakes in a single IndyCar race than in an entire F1 season, and the wheel-to-wheel action is something F1 can only dream of. As a motorsport fan, I've never been on the edge of my seat like I have been with IndyCar.

The ovals are possibly the most exciting races. For all the jokes about "oh yeah, IndyCars driving around in a circle, wow", they are so hard that rookie drivers are not allowed to race them the first year, and then when they do, they get special training and certification.

F1 is just so incredibly dull in comparison. And I say this as an F1 fan. If you long for on-track action that is actually race action, not a procession with a predictable result, give IndyCar a try.

Edit: With regard to speed, you are correct (although I wouldn't say MUCH slower), except I believe an IndyCar on an oval can exceed the top speed of an F1 car (240mph vs 220mph).

Is Indy Car the single seater open cockpit cars or the saloon cars?