Let’s hope not. If they drop the European races for more Micky Mouse tracks and gimmicks in the US I’ll seriously consider dropping F1.
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2024 Formula 1 Season thread
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If an EV battery is not fit for the F1 car, it isn’t going to end up in the bin. It will get used elsewhere. Lithium batteries are recycled and will be more and more. Where as once you’ve burnt gasoline your left with just poisonous fumes.
From 2026 the power will be 50/50 between ICE and batteries as I understand it.
Whilst some F1 technology finds it's way into consumer products they are not immediately transferable from a F1 car to normal consumer vehicle because everything on a F1 car is unique and specifically made for that car. It would therefore in my opinion be the same for EV batteries. They would be specially made to fit a F1 car. So what happens if one battery cell is not functioning properly and is therefore affecting the power output performance, will the team throw away the battery for a new one? How many EV batteries would a team be allowed to throw away because one battery cell is not functioning properly and will therefore affect the total output of the battery. Would F1 force the team to use the battery because they cannot be seen to be throwing away too many EV batteries every race? Would this team complain if they were forced to use a EV battery with a defective cell which would affect the running of the car and thus be at a disadvantage to those with 100% working batteries?
I read online that the life expectancy of a EV battery is somewhere between 10 and 20 years. F1 teams could technically replace an EV battery every race if the power output drops. There would certainly have to be some safe guards put in place to stop persistent EV battery swap outs otherwise there be far too many EV batteries going to the recycler every year. I don't think the world is setup yet for large quantity EV battery recycling.
Another alternative I was thinking when at lunch is that if Europe does all go eco green, they could introduce emissions charges like many cities in Europe currently do to allow F1 to continue to use the fuels they do. Whether F1 would pay such charges is debatable.
Come join the EV thread so we can properly discuss. Firstly, the data suggests the chances of this happening in the first place is a considerable factor less, the fire department has detailed information for each car just like for any other car as per legal requirements on how to deal and disconnect systems, that threat of electrocution is scare mongering and not based on actual information. If any fire department has made such a statement, I'd argue they are not professionals and need retraining.
Sure, an electric fire, regardless of how incredibly rare that eventuality is, would be difficult to extinguish. It just requires different techniques. If there is a concern to the surrounding environment, they just bring the correct tools, a bit like a bathtub, to deal with it.
But as I said, the risk of it happening is incredibly slow and so much less than an ICE. A study by Kelly Blue Book, based on data from the National Transport Safety Board has shown that EV's have 25 fires for every 100,000 sold, compared to 1,530 gasoline, and 3,475 hybrids per 100,000 sold. That is between 61-139 times less likely. A huge difference.
You can replace individual cells. Or recycle the pack, and repackage the cells for other cars, or home storage etc.
I'll have some for home storage solutions, and for my business premises. They'll be more than suitable as you don't need the same extreme charging and discharging. Only great to help expand the recycling and repair industry.
The circus surrounding F1 already does that, and you'll be amazed by the fleet of trucks in Europe that are compliant to a whole different levels.
I think there would be a limit to the number of batteries a team could use.
And I am well aware they wouldn’t be pulling a duff F1 battery out and sticking it in a Tesla. That’s not how either industry works.
But yes the world is already set up for large scale battery recycling. Some countries better than others.
But I think your concerns about power drops are probably a non issue. Just about every study into the lifespan of EV batteries has shown they have far exceeded the lifespan they originally thought. Very different set up to laptop batteries.
As for F1 I think they will continue to use batteries and ICE running synthetic fuel for a good few years yet.
No US state would subsidize a GP to the level it would need. Even Texas rolled back COTA's subsidies and they almost killed the race. If Europe bans F1 because it is not an EV-only series, then we will see more races in the Middle East and Asia.
Though honestly if it comes to that, the FIA just renames Formula E to Formula 1 and F1 becomes an EV-only series.
No big loss. Hasn’t really added anything in my opinion. I’d drop the sprints as well.
Yeah don't really care about it since usually the only driver that could go for it was the one with a gap large enough to the car behind them they could stop for new tires without losing position.
Exactly. Also the risk verses the reward is not all that.
Sprints are for kids 10 and under, what F1 is saying with the sprints, "go ahead, destroy cars, kill drivers, it is just entertainment.." Sprints bring nothing of value to the event, I never understood how 10 teams that are 1000% risk adverse, tolerate the risk sprints bring, if you are going to have sprints, it is a sprints only weekend.. Sunday FP 1 at 9am-10am, Qualfying at 12pm to 12:30pm... Then the race at 3pm to 4pm.. A one day event, so teams can bring 12 members to the track, 8 pit crew, 4 on the wall, and 1 cook for pancakes and muffins, maybe toasted cheese sarms for lunch..
That applies equally if not more to the Grand Prix considering it is longer so more chances for an accident.
They bring a fair bit of value to the event holders. Ticket sales on tracks that host a Sprint Weekend are higher due to more "interesting" things for fans to see on Friday and (especially) Saturday. They are also at the track longer, so concession sales are higher.
Because the risk is probably not any higher than in the Grand Prix. And teams can now use the Sprint to finalize their setup before GP Qualifying and that data is like far more valuable to them than what they get in FP since they are racing the field.
I think the current system is better than before. We now have a true GP Qualifying session as opposed to the GP field being set by the Sprint.
"Because the risk is probably not any higher than in the Grand Prix. And teams can now use the Sprint to finalize their setup before GP Qualifying and that data is like far more valuable to them than what they get in FP since they are racing the field."
My argument is it is way too high to have a "race" before a race, there is a reason Sunday warm up was banned, so here we have a full race start, with the risks a day before the big event, lets says there is a fatal, or a serious accident like we had a couple years ago, after a safety car, on the Sprint day, there is a massive shunt, and cars are damaged to the point of non running Sunday, who gains? There is zero benefit.. Sure maybe the drivers race go karts or something after Qualifying has ended, after all the drivers are paid entertainers at the beck n call of the circus owner...
But to have a full race condition for less than full points 24 hours before the full GP.. Make it make sense as it there is very little in the way of it being sensible for the 10 teams.. Sure for the vendors who by the way make very little.. So how are sprints a good idea?
My argument is it is way too high to have a "race" before a race, there is a reason Sunday warm up was banned, so here we have a full race start, with the risks a day before the big event, lets says there is a fatal, or a serious accident like we had a couple years ago, after a safety car, on the Sprint day, there is a massive shunt, and cars are damaged to the point of non running Sunday, who gains? There is zero benefit.. Sure maybe the drivers race go karts or something after Qualifying has ended, after all the drivers are paid entertainers at the beck n call of the circus owner...
But to have a full race condition for less than full points 24 hours before the full GP.. Make it make sense as it there is very little in the way of it being sensible for the 10 teams.. Sure for the vendors who by the way make very little.. So how are sprints a good idea?
The teams agreed to Sprint Races so even if some of us armchair Team Principles see no benefit, the actual ones evidently do.
Personally, I prefer Sprint Weekends as there is more interesting things to watch. My biggest beef with the earlier format was that it set the grid for the Grand Prix and that teams only had one FP session to set up the cars. Both have now been addressed with the 2024 changes.
Personally, I prefer Sprint Weekends as there is more interesting things to watch. My biggest beef with the earlier format was that it set the grid for the Grand Prix and that teams only had one FP session to set up the cars. Both have now been addressed with the 2024 changes.
I doubt the team principles see a benefit, they are forced to accept, maybe one day we may hear it was under duress, or if you don't sign we take away money from the prize pool or change the wind tunnel time or or...
More interesting things to watch? Really I have not found that, Sprint weekends are lot less interesting, it is what it is, they may be the ones in charge, they may not be the best at the job.. Some mutt hired Tim Cook to wave the flag at COTA some years back, not sure why, he looked like he would rather have root canal and toe nails pulled than be at the GP..
F1 is not always full of great ideas.. The stupid rules about language.. speaks a lot..
More interesting things to watch? Really I have not found that, Sprint weekends are lot less interesting, it is what it is, they may be the ones in charge, they may not be the best at the job.. Some mutt hired Tim Cook to wave the flag at COTA some years back, not sure why, he looked like he would rather have root canal and toe nails pulled than be at the GP..
F1 is not always full of great ideas.. The stupid rules about language.. speaks a lot..
It's part of the Concorde Agreement, so they are not "forced" to accept anything since they first negotiate and then sign the bloody thing. Same with prize money and wind tunnel/CFD time and everything else.
This is not FOM or the FIA imposing Sprints by fiat. All the teams had to agree to the 2024 changes since it is a CA item.
As with most things, Your Mileage May Vary... 🤷♂️
Ferrari on top in Sprint Qualifying simulation at the end of FP1 with Sainz 1st and LeClerc 2nd.
Verstappen third with Norris and Piastri and then Lewis and Russell.
Liam 13th at the end, but looked strong on race simulation on the Hards.
Perez was 2nd earlier, but fell to 16th at the end. Not sure what happened.
Verstappen third with Norris and Piastri and then Lewis and Russell.
Liam 13th at the end, but looked strong on race simulation on the Hards.
Perez was 2nd earlier, but fell to 16th at the end. Not sure what happened.
RB20 looks ok with the Upgrade Package. I didn't notice Max turning his ride height S-Tool in the cockpit. Max was in a good mood in the post interview........ 😉
Max just pips George for pole by 0.12 seconds.
Lawson qualified 12th, but with a 60-place grid penalty for replacing his entire PSU, he will be starting from Fair Park (site of the 1984 Dallas Grand Prix).
The Astons looked like junk (14th and 15th) and Perez could not get out of Q2 (11th).
Lawson qualified 12th, but with a 60-place grid penalty for replacing his entire PSU, he will be starting from Fair Park (site of the 1984 Dallas Grand Prix).
The Astons looked like junk (14th and 15th) and Perez could not get out of Q2 (11th).
Lawson with a 60 place penalty gets pole in 2029 COTA... Really it should just be about $$ penalty, not grids.. Every grid slot penalty is worth minus $10 000 at the end of the season, and or 60 minutes of wind tunnel time...
Norris behind Max. Not good for the faint hope of a drivers WC. Can’t see Norris getting past Max in the sprint. If the form continues for the main race then it could be pretty much over.Max just pips George for pole by 0.12 seconds.
Lawson qualified 12th, but with a 60-place grid penalty for replacing his entire PSU, he will be starting from Fair Park (site of the 1984 Dallas Grand Prix).
The Astons looked like junk (14th and 15th) and Perez could not get out of Q2 (11th).
Mercedes looked racy though.
Albon’s catch from his spin looked amazing.