2024 Formula 1 Season thread

[Harry Haller]

It’s a fine line between dirty and aggressive, as has been mentioned by others.
And in the heat of the moment it can be crossed frequently.
For the armchair spectator it’s a bit easier to make judgements on what crosses the line than it is for elite racers piloting 200mph machines through numerous corners, chicanes and straights. Victory never goes to the indecisive and timid. There is only so much the rules and stewards implementing them can do to enforce safe and professional racing behavior without castrating the sport.

 

[Zest28]

He didn’t crash into anyone. Didn’t cause a DNF for anyone. Nobody got hurt. Yes he contravened the rules in this race but let’s keep a little perspective with a bit less drama.

You know it would have been a crash if Lewis and Lando didn’t go off the track constantly, because Max went off-track himself too. In Hungary 2024, the one time Lewis didn’t go off-track himself, you saw it was a crash.

If someone throws a punch, but the other guy dodges it, the attacker was still intentionally trying to punch that person.

You have to thank Lewis and Lando why so few of these “Yield Or We Crash” driving of Max resulted in actual crashes.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

You know it would have been a crash if Lewis and Lando didn’t go off the track constantly, because Max went off-track himself too. In Hungary 2024, the one time Lewis didn’t go off-track himself, you saw it was a crash.

But it wasn’t a crash so you’ll never know. 🤷‍♂️ each situation is differently and it isn’t a crash until it is. But like George cause not only a crash but a DNF at COTA last year an only got 5s. So is not causing one punished more heavily than causing one? 🤷‍♂️ I find it weird.

This is a sport for grown ups, the best of the best, it’s always been dangerous. If they find it too dangerous maybe they shouldn’t compete.

And when there is not battles everyone is switching off and say it’s boring.

If someone throws a punch, but the other guy dodges it, the attacker was still intentionally trying to punch that person.

No necessarily. Sometimes that is simply perceived as throwing a punch.

You have to thank Lewis and Lando why so few of these “Yield Or We Crash” driving of Max resulted in actual crashes.

Ah ok, now we get to it. Max is the villain and the two British guys are the good guys who keep dodging the villain. 🤣 Right got it.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

It’s a fine line between dirty and aggressive, as has been mentioned by others.
And in the heat of the moment it can be crossed frequently.
For the armchair spectator it’s a bit easier to make judgements on what crosses the line than it is for elite racers piloting 200mph machines through numerous corners, chicanes and straights. Victory never goes to the indecisive and timid. There is only so much the rules and stewards implementing them can do to enforce safe and professional racing behavior without castrating the sport.

I don’t think we are in danger of castrating the sport in this latest discussion as pretty much every driver, fan and observer in general agrees Max crossed the line between aggressive and dirty, more with his second infringement than the first. Its only Horner who turned up to the appeal with an iPad claiming Lando was never going to make the corner that seems to think it’s ok to drive opponents off the circuit to defend positions.

Fans love aggressive hard racing and every driver on the grid is capable of it. We just need to curb the whole situation of the likes of Lewis and Lando needing to use their superb reactions to prevent silly crashes from wild off track excursions. I think most of us here have been watching F1 for many years, some of us over 5 decades and know the difference.

 

[Apple fanboy]

So one of the ways they could reduce these issues is with gravel or grass outside the corners etc. Max would still try to run the other driver off, but would be more concerned about the consequences of not making the corner or have the other car spin into him.
Anyway hopefully it’s going to be sorted going forward with 20 second time penalties.

 

[Zest28]

But it wasn’t a crash so you’ll never know. 🤷‍♂️ each situation is differently and it isn’t a crash until it is. But like George cause not only a crash but a DNF at COTA last year an only got 5s. So is not causing one punished more heavily than causing one? 🤷‍♂️ I find it weird.

If you can’t grasp what happens when Max flies off the track with Lewis and Lando alongside him, and if Lewis and Lando hadn’t used their quick reflexes to avoid a collision by going off track themselves too, that’s on you. Most people do know what happens: a crash.

 

[Zest28]

It’s a fine line between dirty and aggressive, as has been mentioned by others.
And in the heat of the moment it can be crossed frequently.
For the armchair spectator it’s a bit easier to make judgements on what crosses the line than it is for elite racers piloting 200mph machines through numerous corners, chicanes and straights. Victory never goes to the indecisive and timid. There is only so much the rules and stewards implementing them can do to enforce safe and professional racing behavior without castrating the sport.

It‘s not just “armchair experts“, 19 out of 20 drivers (according to George, who serves as a Director of the Grand Prix Driver’s Association) want to see changes surrounding how Max is penalized. You can guess who that 1 driver is who doesn‘t want changes.

And the FIA also agreed with the “armchair experts“ and the rest of the F1 drivers, as they are now working on new guidelines on how to penalize F1 drivers, that not only affects F1, but lower racing series too.

 

[Apple fanboy]

It‘s not just “armchair experts“, 19 out of 20 drivers (according to George, who serves as a Director of the Grand Prix Driver’s Association) want to see changes surrounding how Max is penalized. You can guess who that 1 driver is who doesn‘t want changes.

And the FIA also agreed with the “armchair experts“ and the rest of the F1 drivers, as they are now working on new guidelines on how to penalize F1 drivers, that not only affects F1, but lower racing series too.

Perez also wants changes? I’d have thought it would have been 18 maximum!

 

[Zest28]

Perez also wants changes? I’d have thought it would have been 18 maximum!

I was also thinking how can Perez even agree with this?

But in the end, George is the Director of the Grand Prix Driver Association, so he knows best.

 

[JustinePaula]

George knows nothing about F1, he is the worst GPDA director, he has zero experience, it should have been someone with at least a title, Lewis, Alonso, but it does not matter, no one cares about the GPDA, it is there to placate the drivers, but in the end, they have to cave to the demands of Liberty/FIA.. The GPDA could demand professional Stewards, who pays??? That alone proves how stupid the whole F1 system is.. Drivers have to pay to ride, but have no functional say in how/who manages the events.. They pay to earn.. A very strange system..

 

[cyb3rdud3]

I was also thinking how can Perez even agree with this?

But in the end, George is the Director of the Grand Prix Driver Association, so he knows best.

George, knows best 🤣 Well yes, he didn't take the corner at COTA to push Lewis Wide, and used Carlos Sainz side pod to keep him within the track limits. The fact that Carlos ended DNF and George only got 5s for it is neither here nor there. Yup, torpedo George definitely knows best from own experience. Some super selective memory is going on here.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

George knows nothing about F1, he is the worst GPDA director, he has zero experience, it should have been someone with at least a title, Lewis, Alonso, but it does not matter, no one cares about the GPDA, it is there to placate the drivers, but in the end, they have to cave to the demands of Liberty/FIA.. The GPDA could demand professional Stewards, who pays??? That alone proves how stupid the whole F1 system is.. Drivers have to pay to ride, but have no functional say in how/who manages the events.. They pay to earn.. A very strange system..

Yup, it is that kind of role that nobody wants. Only boys like Will McKenzie out of The Inbetweeners, and George Russel, would love that. And unsurprisingly looking at recent comments, Jesson Button 🤣🤷‍♂️

 

[JustinePaula]

I just don't know, or frankly really care, but I am perplexed by the whole pay to play, I can understand maybe a certain pay to play rate, but what they are charged, kind of like having a big tent, pop corn, cola, sawdust, and the clowns have to pay 3x the admission to entertain, and they are paid $12 a show, admission costs $15... Explain the superlicence fee..

 

[Glideslope]

I just don't know, or frankly really care, but I am perplexed by the whole pay to play, I can understand maybe a certain pay to play rate, but what they are charged, kind of like having a big tent, pop corn, cola, sawdust, and the clowns have to pay 3x the admission to entertain, and they are paid $12 a show, admission costs $15... Explain the superlicence fee..

The SL Fee is more about what falls in that sawdust. IMO, the fee became out of control in 2010 after Mosley turned to the Dark Side. The FIA likes to consistently fall back on their perceived need for a Penalty Points System above all else.

It's simply another money grab. Although you can attach that label to many of today's sports. Not simply F1. I do think there should be some equalization between the WCC monetary awards and the WDC awards. The drivers have earned it driving today's cars, IMO.

In the end it's still a Circus. I don't see that changing going forward.

 

[JustinePaula]

It is said to gain a PHD, you need to submit a thesis of no more than 200 000 words, I could right a thesis on 1.2million words on what is wrong, about 20 on what is right in regards F1.. That is the problem, they have found themselves painted into a corner and cannot engineer a solution...

Try this, try that, remember that awful 1 lap shoot out crap thing, that was trialed, abused then quickly abandoned.. That it actually reached the level of use, well speaks to the insanity of the clown college that is FIA/F1, and then We have the system we have now, that really is about "help we are trapped in a system and cannot fix it.."

It was always bad, at times you wonder if all and sundry should be sectioned, just to have a rest from the insane.. Senna and the really bizzare rules and regs.. Micheal Schumacher and his love affair with breaking, not bending, the rules...

2024 and sweargate.. Honestly, in my line of work, if you are not hearing swearing, is the comms working? The Director calls you all sorts of names, swears, and worse, but they are the 1st to buy a round in the pub..

F1 is in chaos, in crisis, and not helped by DTS, stupid movies that make no sense.. F1 is in trouble, you may or may not agree, but the signs are there, if Toto is making comments about cost caps, and missing events, he is from a region where they have no sense of humour, it is 100% all the time serious.. Yet nothing..

If Colapinto says "for what" on hearing 20 seconds for Max, you have to question, is F1 over-regulated.. We see this in football, in rugby, where you are red carded/banned for minor infringements, all in the name of safety..

We lost 10% of the race due to a crash.. Would it have made more sense to red flag, then a re-start on the grid? Or instead of +x seconds, a drive through...

F1 is no question in crisis, they are in crisis in terms of the sport spectacle, no overtakes, try this tech, that tech, ban this, ban that.. only 1 brand of tyre, all 20 cars on the same tyres, from an aero point, so so close they might as well share pdf files for $10 a page..

Something is wrong..very wrong and they are not aware of it..

 

[cyb3rdud3]

It is said to gain a PHD, you need to submit a thesis of no more than 200 000 words, I could right a thesis on 1.2million words on what is wrong, about 20 on what is right in regards F1.. That is the problem, they have found themselves painted into a corner and cannot engineer a solution...

Try this, try that, remember that awful 1 lap shoot out crap thing, that was trialed, abused then quickly abandoned.. That it actually reached the level of use, well speaks to the insanity of the clown college that is FIA/F1, and then We have the system we have now, that really is about "help we are trapped in a system and cannot fix it.."

It was always bad, at times you wonder if all and sundry should be sectioned, just to have a rest from the insane.. Senna and the really bizzare rules and regs.. Micheal Schumacher and his love affair with breaking, not bending, the rules...

2024 and sweargate.. Honestly, in my line of work, if you are not hearing swearing, is the comms working? The Director calls you all sorts of names, swears, and worse, but they are the 1st to buy a round in the pub..

F1 is in chaos, in crisis, and not helped by DTS, stupid movies that make no sense.. F1 is in trouble, you may or may not agree, but the signs are there, if Toto is making comments about cost caps, and missing events, he is from a region where they have no sense of humour, it is 100% all the time serious.. Yet nothing..

If Colapinto says "for what" on hearing 20 seconds for Max, you have to question, is F1 over-regulated.. We see this in football, in rugby, where you are red carded/banned for minor infringements, all in the name of safety..

We lost 10% of the race due to a crash.. Would it have made more sense to red flag, then a re-start on the grid? Or instead of +x seconds, a drive through...

F1 is no question in crisis, they are in crisis in terms of the sport spectacle, no overtakes, try this tech, that tech, ban this, ban that.. only 1 brand of tyre, all 20 cars on the same tyres, from an aero point, so so close they might as well share pdf files for $10 a page..

Something is wrong..very wrong and they are not aware of it..

I think I've been wrong about you most of the time, I've finding myself to be more and more in agreement.

 

[pachyderm]

I think I've been wrong about you most of the time, I've finding myself to be more and more in agreement.

Same... pretty much anyway.

IMHO Max did deserve the penalty, I'm not sure exactly what the context/situation was with Colapinto's opinion/statement. Was that comment made in race, and he was asking a legitimate question?
Or was he being sarcastic after the race and making a statement i.e. "that shouldn't be a penalty, they were just racing" type of statement?

 

[JustinePaula]

As far as I know it was during the race, 20 seconds was for what the offence was, a bit harsh, but it did make for a great race up the leaderboard, still think instead of 20 seconds a drive through...

My only argument is for a better event, I want to see wheel to wheel, driver v driver, not 1% driver, and 98% PHD v PHD.. Maybe reduce the use of gadgets, and maybe have open use of DRS, as each driver sees fit, drop the fuel flow regs.. Allow multi tyre brands, fuels, ban the hybrid, go back to pure normally aspirated, turbo charged, V10's and open budgets.. No cost caps.. Sprints for non racing reserve drivers, to keep skills fresh..

I don't know, but what I see, is a dire situation, storm clouds building, something something bad..

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

It is said to gain a PHD, you need to submit a thesis of no more than 200 000 words, I could right a thesis on 1.2million words on what is wrong, about 20 on what is right in regards F1.. That is the problem, they have found themselves painted into a corner and cannot engineer a solution...

Try this, try that, remember that awful 1 lap shoot out crap thing, that was trialed, abused then quickly abandoned.. That it actually reached the level of use, well speaks to the insanity of the clown college that is FIA/F1, and then We have the system we have now, that really is about "help we are trapped in a system and cannot fix it.."

It was always bad, at times you wonder if all and sundry should be sectioned, just to have a rest from the insane.. Senna and the really bizzare rules and regs.. Micheal Schumacher and his love affair with breaking, not bending, the rules...

2024 and sweargate.. Honestly, in my line of work, if you are not hearing swearing, is the comms working? The Director calls you all sorts of names, swears, and worse, but they are the 1st to buy a round in the pub..

F1 is in chaos, in crisis, and not helped by DTS, stupid movies that make no sense.. F1 is in trouble, you may or may not agree, but the signs are there, if Toto is making comments about cost caps, and missing events, he is from a region where they have no sense of humour, it is 100% all the time serious.. Yet nothing..

If Colapinto says "for what" on hearing 20 seconds for Max, you have to question, is F1 over-regulated.. We see this in football, in rugby, where you are red carded/banned for minor infringements, all in the name of safety..

We lost 10% of the race due to a crash.. Would it have made more sense to red flag, then a re-start on the grid? Or instead of +x seconds, a drive through...

F1 is no question in crisis, they are in crisis in terms of the sport spectacle, no overtakes, try this tech, that tech, ban this, ban that.. only 1 brand of tyre, all 20 cars on the same tyres, from an aero point, so so close they might as well share pdf files for $10 a page..

Something is wrong..very wrong and they are not aware of it..

F1 changed for the worse in around 2012 when satellite TV companies started competing across Europe for the exclusive live rights. They were paying huge money and domestic providers couldn't compete and Bernie suggested that the sport didn't care how many people were watching, as long as the money was coming in. Of course these tv companies then wanted a say on how the sport was run and now we have the likes of Sky and Netflix putting pressure on the FIA for the sake of the 'show'. Combine that with car manufacturers pulling away from F1 due to expensive partication fees which are unjustifiable against their own marketing budgets and you start to see a problem. Engine freezes, single tyre suppliers, DRS and just about any gimmick has been tried to spice it up and keep the racing close, but the big teams always find a loophole and financial creativity.

There are less fans watching live now than there were in 2008 (155 Million less globally on average) and out of the average 70.4M viewers per race, only 25% are watching it live as it happens, as opposed to catch-up and highlights. That is surely a by-product of cost, poor production and inconsistency from the governing body regarding rules, regulations.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

As far as I know it was during the race, 20 seconds was for what the offence was, a bit harsh, but it did make for a great race up the leaderboard, still think instead of 20 seconds a drive through...

My only argument is for a better event, I want to see wheel to wheel, driver v driver, not 1% driver, and 98% PHD v PHD.. Maybe reduce the use of gadgets, and maybe have open use of DRS, as each driver sees fit, drop the fuel flow regs.. Allow multi tyre brands, fuels, ban the hybrid, go back to pure normally aspirated, turbo charged, V10's and open budgets.. No cost caps.. Sprints for non racing reserve drivers, to keep skills fresh..

I don't know, but what I see, is a dire situation, storm clouds building, something something bad..

The only problem with scrapping cost caps is you effectively force teams like Williams and Sauber out of the sport. The racing doesn't get closer, the bigger teams just create bigger gaps at the front like we had with McLaren, Williams and Benetton in the early 90's.

 

[CWallace]

The only problem with scrapping cost caps is you effectively force teams like Williams and Sauber out of the sport. The racing doesn't get closer, the bigger teams just create bigger gaps at the front like we had with McLaren, Williams and Benetton in the early 90's.

Actually, Carlton is on record that if they could they would significantly increase Williams' budget to kick them up the grid (because it improves the value of the team and the return on their investment).

You are correct in noting it would make the current imbalance between the "tip of the spear" part of the grid and the rest even worse. When Mercedes identified their "zero sidepod" concept was not successful, Toto noted that "in the old days" they would have just developed an all-new chassis to introduce mid-season. And Red Bull would not be struggling with their car as they would have released an "RB20B" after the summer break that addressed it fully as opposed to what tweaks they have been able to do under the cost cap.

Single-tire suppliers was probably a mix of cost (as in multiple vendors did not make financial sense for said vendors) and to prevent "customer tires" like Bridgestone did for Ferrari (where Bridgestone developed their tires for the Ferrari chassis and the other customers just had to cope).



And we need to remember the teams have a fair bit of responsibility in the current state of affairs. Even the worst team on the grid is worth over one billion USD and they have a financially vested interest in protecting that. Hence why they do not want to add any more teams (especially "factory teams") even though two more "factory teams" could really shake things up post-2026. The teams also wield significant influence on the FIA technical regulations since they are the "Subject Matter Experts".

 

[pachyderm]

As far as I know it was during the race, 20 seconds was for what the offence was, a bit harsh, but it did make for a great race up the leaderboard, still think instead of 20 seconds a drive through...

My only argument is for a better event, I want to see wheel to wheel, driver v driver, not 1% driver, and 98% PHD v PHD.. Maybe reduce the use of gadgets, and maybe have open use of DRS, as each driver sees fit, drop the fuel flow regs.. Allow multi tyre brands, fuels, ban the hybrid, go back to pure normally aspirated, turbo charged, V10's and open budgets.. No cost caps.. Sprints for non racing reserve drivers, to keep skills fresh..

I don't know, but what I see, is a dire situation, storm clouds building, something something bad..

But he had two instances ... I was pretty sure it was 10 seconds for each... no?

 

[Glideslope]

Actually, Carlton is on record that if they could they would significantly increase Williams' budget to kick them up the grid (because it improves the value of the team and the return on their investment).

You are correct in noting it would make the current imbalance between the "tip of the spear" part of the grid and the rest even worse. When Mercedes identified their "zero sidepod" concept was not successful, Toto noted that "in the old days" they would have just developed an all-new chassis to introduce mid-season. And Red Bull would not be struggling with their car as they would have released an "RB20B" after the summer break that addressed it fully as opposed to what tweaks they have been able to do under the cost cap.

Single-tire suppliers was probably a mix of cost (as in multiple vendors did not make financial sense for said vendors) and to prevent "customer tires" like Bridgestone did for Ferrari (where Bridgestone developed their tires for the Ferrari chassis and the other customers just had to cope).



And we need to remember the teams have a fair bit of responsibility in the current state of affairs. Even the worst team on the grid is worth over one billion USD and they have a financially vested interest in protecting that. Hence why they do not want to add any more teams (especially "factory teams") even though two more "factory teams" could really shake things up post-2026. The teams also wield significant influence on the FIA technical regulations since they are the "Subject Matter Experts".

Excellent point. Their influence with the FIA has been a significant hindrance to the FIA’s decision making.

 

[CWallace]

But he had two instances ... I was pretty sure it was 10 seconds for each... no?

Yes. 10 seconds for forcing Lando off track and 10 seconds for gaining an advantage when passing Lando off track.

 

[CWallace]

The Race believes VCARB should sign Colapinto to pair with Yuki, presuming Lawson gets promoted to replace Perez. And like Perez, Colapinto has backing from Carlos Slim and Williams has signed a number of South American sponsors with Colapinto. Personally, I am in agreement with such a plan.