2025 Apple TV 4K: All the Rumors So Far

[HobeSoundDarryl]

Just make it work with more than just 2 HomePods in stereo. For example 2 stereo pairs . 1 pair for the front and 1 pair for the back to get some real Dolby atmos experience .

I would like to see a new Apple TV that connects to multiple HomePods for Atmos surround sound, not just two front HomePods. People have been asking this for a long time now, but Apple doesn't seem to listen to what customers would like.

HPs are NOT intended for this. HPs are NOT the way unless a person can be happy with stereo-only home theater sound.

You can get the primary benefit of what you want- a good surround sound setup- NOW (and years ago) by adding a receiver and putting any number of "dumb" speakers all around you. That is the very best way to achieve the home theater sound goal. Along with the obvious benefit of surround sound, center channel sound, subwoofer, true ATMOS, etc, a Receiver will also accommodate connections from every other source of audio & video you may have that can't run through AppleTV, iDevices and/or the television... which means you can enjoy ANYTHING that plays audio on the best speakers in the house vs. only select things that can work within a very constrained walled garden.

Move the HPs to other rooms for outstanding-sounding music in those rooms... exactly what HPs were intended to be. There's not even been one rumor that Apple has any intent of ever expanding HPs toward becoming full home theater setups. There's no center channel HP. There's no subwoofer option. There's no rear channel speakers.

Modern receivers generally have Airplay built in, so you can throw any music to them as easily as you throw music to HPs. Airplay means HomeKit options like "play whole home audio" just works, so your HPs now in other rooms and your new super surround setup in the your main room are in synch. Etc.

A receiver based surround sound system also can use no wifi bandwidth to push sound to the speakers. And great "dumb" speakers will very likely still be sounding just as great 10, 20, even 30 years from now... unlike Smart Speakers which will likely be "vintaged" many times over by their total dependency on the "smarts" part.

HP "smarts" & Siri are as readily available in iPhone, iPad, AppleTV and Mac. I often command Siri to play <whatever> to any rooms or whole house on my Apple devices and it "just works" exactly like it does with HP Siri. Turn on Siri at a distance and you can call out exactly like you do with HP to be heard by Siri on iDevices or Mac to do whatever you want it to do.

All that offered, if one insists on smart speakers and wants refined surround sound, go Sonos to get all that NOW. Sonos works just as well with Apple Music and airplay and is much more open to work with all other streaming audio options too. They have the subwoofer(s) now. They have the soundbar(s) now. They have the rear channel speakers now. It's all refined and "just works" and is very much Apple-like.

 

[Powerbooky]

Introduce the "Apple TV Arcade" with the A17 Pro, 128 GB, Wi-Fi, Ethernet and Thread for $149 and position it as the "Apple Console".

Then they can reduce the price of the third generation 64GB Apple TV 4K to $99 (or less) and (continue to) position it as a video/audio/photo streaming device.

👍 our two 2017 ATV 4K still work perfectly. On a HD TV all games the kids play are smooth. On the 4K TV however some games with sophisticated graphics can show slight stutter. But if a 2024 ATV indeed supports hardware raytracing and stuff, I'm in for a replacement. The grandparents can have the 2017 one... replacing their crap IPTV box.

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

apple tv with A17 pro would be impressive and give sony/microsoft something to think about. i'd love to see Apple take gaming more seriously.

Sony & Microsoft (and Nintendo) rule gaming because:

• they put up huge money to subsidize game development
• spend sizable money buying good game-development studios for exclusives
• their customers are readily willing to pay more than a dollar or two for games, including games with additional revenue flows such as in-app, advertising and subscription models

Apple gaming doesn't compete because:

• Apple puts up NO money to subsidize game development
• Apple- while rumored to be in the running- does NOT buy or own any game development studios for exclusives
• Apple customers do NOT want to spend more than a dollar or two for AAA games and abhor in-app, advertising and subscription models.

It is NOT about the technology platform. It's about the money. Show AAA developers MORE money making their games for Apple hardware and they will come. Roll out M20 XL PRO MAX ULTRA turbo with Metal graphics 10 Extreme Holo PLUS PLUS Edition with no seed money and a market that won't pay much for games and they still will not come.

This illusion/delusion that the hardware drives game development never ceases... and it also never works. If we want big games on Apple platforms, solve the money problem. They will definitely come if that problem is resolved. How does that get resolved?

Bullet 1 & 2 are resolved by Apple putting their money where there "we're serious this time" mouths are. They have it in abundance but seemingly have no interest in doing an AppleTV+-like content funding thrust for gaming... adopting exactly what the established Kings of gaming do. Bullet #3 is resolved by us consumers "thinking different" and paying at least competitive rates for AAA games... unlike the sentiment we can read by Apple consumers in this AAA game thread. If Apple is going to pay nothing and Apple consumers don't want to pay more than a buck or two, why bother developing AAA games for Silicon when there is much more fruitful opportunities elsewhere?

In short: an abundance of AAA gaming is simple spending actions: 2 parts Apple and 1 part Apple customers... all deciding to make it more appealing to developers to develop for Silicon by rewarding them in the most tangible way 💰💰💰. Short of that, the only ones who will come will be the ones who do not care about money and have some other way to pay their own bills.

 

[Powerbooky]

Faster wifi doesn't make watching 4K movies any faster- don't even need wifi 6 or 6e for that. It would be the same with faster ethernet. The movie plays at only a specific speed. Maybe intense game play could be helped with even faster (than 6e) wifi??? But if that's the driver, see above.

Well, I would still like wifi 6 (802.11ax) simply because of the more efficient combined use of the wifi channel(s).
A single wifi client on the older protocols can bring down the bandwidth of the whole wifi network.

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

Lots of competitors in this field and Apple only has just over 14% of the market.

Apple should be partnering with TV manufacturers to get Apple TV built into TVs like other competitors do.

Built in on some kind of replaceable & upgradable card? OK. Else the TV will far outlast the un-upgradable AppleTV hard wired inside. No AppleTV lasts 10+ years but many TVs do.

Those TVs with ROKU and Google built in will have their smarts obsolete before the TV itself is end of life. What will happen then? Are they basically big doomed iMacs when the smarts are "vintaged" and thus you have to replace the entire TV? OR will it be attach an external box after a few years to keep up now that the internal platform is no longer being updated anymore? TBD.

The core idea is good but the implementation should be superior to how ROKU and Google are being built in. The reality of that is still to play out but it is coming.

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

Nowadays all Smart TV’s have all streaming apps built in, so what’s the added value of Apple TV at this point?

Streaming apps are but a single category in a much broader mix of apps one can enjoy with an AppleTV. If one only cares about select apps that are built into Smart TVs, they don't need an AppleTV. But if one wants apps available on AppleTV but not on the TV, they need an AppleTV to enjoy those apps.

All Android phones- including many much cheaper than iPhone- pretty much have nearly all of the core apps/functionality of iPhone. But we don't question the value add of iPhone.

PCs can run far more apps than Mac, along with much of what is available on Mac. But we don't question the value add of Mac.

Fire Tablets for about $120 can pretty much do all of the mainstream tablet app things one can do on iPads. But we don't question the value add of iPad.

See the pattern here.

 

[TheNewLou]

I think you’re still not getting the constraint here. The A17 Pro or any cut down version of the same is on TSMCs N3B process. That process is a total dead end. The ONLY chip that has ever used it or will ever use it is Apple’s A17 Pro. As soon as Apple stops needing the A17, all of the production lines currently making that chip will be repurposed to the N3E node that TSMC’s customers (including Apple) actually want.

There’s no way Apple is going to introduce a new variant that requires TSMC to keep N3B production lines running even longer.

The last 2 Apple TV refreshes have been at WWDC. If they really want RT hardware in their Apple TV in 2024 they just need to wait 3 months and use the A18 in the fall.

OK, we get it, you've made your point about the literal A17 Pro. But what's to say Apple isn't already working on an N3E process of a modified A17 Pro (maybe with more GPUs for the AppleTV, but turned off for Spring 2024 iPhone 15 Pros in new colors). They could silently (or not) replace the N3B A17 Pro with these chips, which could also be in an Apple TV.

Maybe far fetched, and I'm not saying that's the way it has to happen. But I think Apple has options here, and they are incentivized to replace that A17 Pro ASAP, even if it's not literally the exact same CPU.

As for Apple TV refreshes at WWDC, a new ray-tracing CPU and a beta version of tvOS would give game developers time to create/port games for Holiday 2024. (AAA gaming companies will surely get advanced hardware & tvOS betas before WWDC)

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

Except that need not be the case for future ATVs. IMO Apple is nuts if they do not provide an ATV choice with power for gaming. No, not an attempt to directly compete with furnace-hot full-on PC boxes, but since Apple chips are strong enough, make that power available on a higher level ATV choice and see what devs do with it.

Mac Mini M2 PRO with a resurrected Front Row (AppleTV clone) interface. That seems most obvious path to a "PRO" AppleTV that leverages M2 or perhaps M3 hardware for this gaming push.

 

[TheNewLou]

Mac Mini M2 PRO with a resurrected Front Row (AppleTV clone) interface. That seems most obvious path to a "PRO" AppleTV that leverages M2 or perhaps M3 hardware for this gaming push.

if iOS/iPadOS can run on an M-series chip (iPad Air/Pro), so can tvOS.

 

[Wrylachlan2]

Apple has kept older ships around in devices and there is no reason they can't in an ATV; much like how older chips hang around in last year's iPhones that still are still sold.

The difference is that when Apple kept those old chips around TSMC was still using the node they were on. N3B is going to be entirely retired in favor of N3E. Apple isn’t going to keep an entire node going just for an Apple TV chip.

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

But your ISP only guarantees advertised speeds when using ethernet. Until we can force ISPs to advertise, support and guarantee wi-fi speeds, we are forced to rely on ethernet for the fastest advertised speed. Slow internet? Call your ISP. The first question they will ask is "Are you connected via ethernet" No? Then "Sorry, we can't guarantee any specific speeds over wi-fi."

How could they unless they supply the wifi equipment and install it themselves in each home in optimal ways? Wifi speeds is not an ISP choice. They don't have some switch or gauge to decide the speed of in-home wifi. Instead, that has to do with many variables inside each home only starting with which router hardware one chooses, relative location of that hardware, etc. Interference, neighboring wifi routers, distances, wall/floor/ceiling materials, etc.

I can't see any way ISPs could ever "own" wifi speeds to offer guarantees. That seems to always be a consumer burden to buy the right equipment, choose the right locations for the equipment, eliminate sources of interference, live where it won't conflict with neighbor wifi setups, optimize the setup, etc.

 

[TheNewLou]

Built in on some kind of replaceable & upgradable card? OK. Else the TV will far outlast the un-upgradable AppleTV hard wired inside. No AppleTV lasts 10+ years but many TVs do.

The core idea is good but the implementation should be superior to how ROKU and Google are being built in. The reality of that is still to play out but it is coming.

No TV has tvOS built in, but a number of them have the AppleTV app & AirPlay built in already:

Airplay compatible TVs that have Apple TV build in: Guide

Looking for a TV that works with the Apple TV app or AirPlay? There are options from Samsung, Sony, LG as well as compatible devices from Roku, Chromecast & Amazon.

www.macworld.com

Not an expert on smart TVs, but I assume the problem with most of them is that the *apps* themselves aren't updated, but the *framework/OS* for updating them still exists after 3 years or whatever. So Apple would likely continue to update their AppleTV app for these smart TVs, even if most other companies don't update their own apps.

Of course, Apple is still incentivized to update tvOS more frequently and for longer periods of time (on their own hardware) than for smart TVs.

 

[Wrylachlan2]

OK, we get it, you've made your point about the literal A17 Pro. But what's to say Apple isn't already working on an N3E process of a modified A17 Pro

They’re not just working on one modified version of the A17 Pro, they’re working on two. Thats what I’ve been saying all along. They will be called the A18 and A18 Pro and will be available in September. The A18 will undoubtedly go into an Apple TV - the question is whether that will be fall of 2024 or WWDC 2025.

The idea that Apple will make an inbetweener A series chip for the spring is… unlikely.

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

Less advertising in the UI please. A good part of that would be letting me delete (or at least hide) all the applets I dont want - which is most of them.

Would be great if the content applets could be set to default to your library rather than the store. If I wanted to buy something I'll make my own way over there.

I was an early adopter with the fat hard drive equipped AppleTV and it was a heck of a lot less cluttered with useless junk.

AMEN!

 

[TheNewLou]

They’re not just working on one modified version of the A17 Pro, they’re working on two. Thats what I’ve been saying all along. They will be called the A18 and A18 Pro and will be available in September. The A18 will undoubtedly go into an Apple TV - the question is whether that will be fall of 2024 or WWDC 2025.

The idea that Apple will make an inbetweener A series chip for the spring is… unlikely.

Right. So what if one of those (A18 or A18 Pro or a derivative of it with more GPUs) was available in Spring 2024 for an Apple TV update? Maybe they wouldn't call it an A18 so autumn 2024 iPhone users don't get upset that they're using an "old CPU".

Maybe they'll call it the G1 for Gaming CPU (A1, M1, G1)

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

Continuity camera takes care of that. Add the small round Belkin MagSafe stand/ Mac mount and you are set.

Continuity Camera is terrific but thoroughly limited/walled garden.

USB port addition would allow a person to choose any quality/type of camera and likely work with any conferencing apps vs. FaceTime, which connects to far fewer people (only Apple people). CC may open up to all of the others too but I wouldn't hold my breath on that one.

So you are right about CC but I'd still prefer the added flexility of keeping CC and also having the USB port options too.

 

[MBAir2010]

Apple TV should run Safari browser.

I always wanted to store several movie like MP4 on these device.
perhaps in gen7?

 

[Wrylachlan2]

Right. So what if one of those (A18 or A18 Pro or a derivative of it with more GPUs) was available in Spring 2024 for an Apple TV update? Maybe they wouldn't call it an A18 so autumn 2024 iPhone users don't get upset that they're using an "old CPU".

Maybe they'll call it the G1 for Gaming CPU (A1, M1, G1)

Yeah, no. The cost of taping out a chip is huge. That huge cost needs to be amortized over an awful lot of sales - far far more than the most optimistic projections of an Apple TV. There’s simply no way that a bespoke chip makes sense at 3nm if it didn’t make sense at 5 or 7nm. As the nodes get smaller tape out costs go up. As tape out costs go up volume becomes increasingly important and the key volume strategy is reusing the same chip in multiple products.

And there’s no way that Apple would time their chip design for the A18 to coincide with spring 2024 - that’s essentially throwing away 6 months of design time they could be spending on making a better chip for iPhones. Apple would never do that as the iPhone is their most important product.

I don’t think this “what if” makes very much economic sense. But more importantly, they don’t need it. Nothing about the competitive position of the Apple TV is worsened by waiting until the fall. None of their competitors are going to push them down. And if they were to make a big gaming push, Christmas season makes the most sense for that. So a fall release of an A18 Apple TV might be BETTER than a spring release because it puts Apple gaming in the news right as people start thinking about holiday shopping.

 

[k1121j]

Wrong. Ethernet-connected Apple TV is superior in every way. Zero latency. Minimal lag. Never any buffering. And no interference from other wifi and bluetooth devices causing problems.

Ethernet Apple TV all the way.

Sure is I angree 100% Apple has been going away from its roots in favor of the bottom line. I can see Ethernet going away just to save a buck.

 

[jimimac71]

Since I purchased an Amazon Firestick, I never use my ATV. The remote is such a mess, I can’t be bothered to even pick it up.

The Fire TV Stick is so Amazon. Terribly cluttered. Roku is better except for the remote with sound buttons on the side. I'm not crazy about ATV, but do like the remote. Only the Siri button is on the side.
Amazon has a browser which occasionally is a plus. Lots of content on Internet Archive. The Roku Channel app is not on ATV, so only a browser will do or screen mirror from an iPhone or iPad.

 

[AppleHeadPhx]

How about an Apple TV with an M1? 😁

I hope they fix the audio so it gives us true Dolby Digital instead of LCPM, you know, what everyone talks about over on the other site. LOL

 

[misterlwc]

I love Apple TV, especially stereo audio output via AirPlay to HomePods, although I would love to see future models support 120Hz output, rather than limited at 60Hz.

 

[victorvictoria]

Currently I’m using DIRECTV and want it gone asap. Whether it be the new version of AppleTV or the new ROKU Ultra, whichever comes out first gets my money.

If you mean the DirecTV stream device, I feel your pain. I seldom use it due to its numerous flaws and glitches. The remote allows easy recording, but that's about it. We have two Apple TV 4Ks, and use one exclusively, and the other for any 4K content.

 

[Crow_Servo]

Sony & Microsoft (and Nintendo) rule gaming because:

• they put up huge money to subsidize game development
• spend sizable money buying good game-development studios for exclusives
• their customers are readily willing to pay more than a dollar or two for games, including games with additional revenue flows such as in-app, advertising and subscription models

Apple gaming doesn't compete because:

• Apple puts up NO money to subsidize game development
• Apple- while rumored to be in the running- does NOT buy or own any game development studios for exclusives
• Apple customers do NOT want to spend more than a dollar or two for AAA games and abhor in-app, advertising and subscription models.

It is NOT about the technology platform. It's about the money. Show AAA developers MORE money making their games for Apple hardware and they will come. Roll out M20 XL PRO MAX ULTRA turbo with Metal graphics 10 Extreme Holo Edition PLUS with no seed money and a market that won't pay much for games and they do not come.

This illusion/delusion that the hardware drives game development never ceases... and it also never works. If we want big games on Apple platforms, solve the money problem. They will definitely come if that problem is resolved.

You’re right, of course. If Apple was serious about gaming, they’d have more than just the mostly-mobile-centric Apple Arcade. The current Apple TV has the same specs as my iPad Mini 6, but I can play Call of Duty Mobile, Pubg Mobile, Alien Isolation, etc on my iPad Mini. I can’t play any of those games directly on my Apple TV. Apple obviously doesn’t want people to treat the Apple TV like a real console. Just play select Apple Arcade games on it. That’s about it.

 

[npmacuser5]

My Apple TV’s no regrets.
The reality for Apple. Their sound focus music. Very little interest in home theatre output sound. Leaving that for others. Apple TV sound output very limited. On the music side, good product offerings. Everything from room filling to ear filling sound devices. Plus integrate with other music systems via AirPlay and Bluetooth. I do not see Apple home theater systems ever. Unless Sonos or Bose become part of Apple. Very little chance of that.