$2999 for entry model: what do you think?

[NuggetSauce]

It's pretty much a commercial product intended for industry professionals. For those people, it's price is chump change compared to what they spend on a neve console, panavision camera, or an industrial plotting printer.

A fully spec'd out mac pro will be more powerful than the average rack sever that a current datacenter is using, in a package that's a fraction of the size, and infinitely more quiet.

 

[bubbleboyjones]

I built 286'ss, 386's, 486's and AMD K6's. The money that is saved is miniscule, compared to the time required. And time is the only capital one has in life.

My computers are work computers, not hobby machines.

Seriously. The amount of time spent in total going into researching the parts, then ordering, then putting it together. I guess it depends how much your time is worth/how much do you make per hour. Not worth it for me

 

[koban4max]

rip off when there is NO MOUSE and KEYBOARD!!!! WTF apple...slice the apple in half.

 

[zephonic]

Audio apps work best with single CPU unit and base Mac Pro is more than enough for any kind of DAW work. As a matter of fact iMac is sufficient enough but because you can't add another screen to it due to stupid lack of HDMI you have to settle for Ableton workflow through out all apps.

For basic audio recording/editing, yes. For orchestral mockups? Not really.

Film composers habitually have two slave PC's attached to their MacPro via VEP, because one computer just can't do the job. They would love to be able to run all of that stuff on just one computer.

Post facilities run everything of their ProTools HD cards because they can't trust native solutions to seamlessly do dialog punch IO's on 150+ track projects.


Fact is, I can bring my '09 MacPro to its knees fairly easily with a couple of instances of modern virtual instruments. This could possibly be addressed by more efficient utilization of multiple cores, but that is veering off-topic.

 

[d-m-a-x]

On 4 (and fewer) core tasks, it does kill the 8 core 2010 MP:
http://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench3/compare/134323?baseline=123580

Not so on 8 core tasks.

oh good, wondering about that. I was a little dismayed at first, but heavy programs actually do better with higher clock speeds rather than more cores

 

[calpolygraduate]

I'm going to buy one!

 

[flat five]

So, in addition to making storage much more expensive, they RAISED the price $500?

I guess this is you admitting that you were wrong just a few posts back, takes a big man. Thanks. Gleeful Cheerleading works best when you stick to actual facts. Rounding prices up 20% to make your point work makes it look like your point ISN'T working.

you're right. i agree

 

[TechZeke]

On 4 (and fewer) core tasks, it does kill the 8 core 2010 MP:
http://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench3/compare/134323?baseline=123580

Not so on 8 core tasks.

Still proves my point, as in 8 core tasks the quad-core isn't trailing far behind. The 2010 needs 4 extra cores for 10-20% more performance(That's only in a few cases), and many cases, almost no noticeable improvement at all. The new Quad Xeon is so efficient that anyone buying the base definitely won't miss the 2010 8-core.

This means a hex or 12-core new MP will just kill it, stuff it, serve the old Mac Pro for dinner, and flush the bones down the toilet.

 

[td2243]

A common theme I seem to be reading is that it is "just out of reach" as far as pricing goes. I, too, would be considered a prosumer. I am in school and would like to get a super powerful machine to begin a career on.

But $3000 for the entry model (for some of us who are self employed), is out of reach, for what it comes with. It the entry model had been priced at $2500 (the previous entry price), I would have more likely bit at it. The extra $500 to some people is pennies, but to other, it isn't. For that, a bigger SSD and hex core would have sealed the deal.

The pricing was clearly not set to lure in the people on the edge, heavily thinking about getting one because WE prefer a desktop. Had they been more aggressive with pricing it competitively, many people in my 'camp' would have jumped on it.

In the end, I'll probably just buy an iMac with considerably less power, simply because the jump in cost to a hex core is too great. Maybe some crazy benchmarks will sway me, but then again, waiting again until December seems like another ten years away.

Do we know that the base model MP will kill a souped up iMac 27"?

 

[philipma1957]

well it is a disaster for me. I don't need a dedicated 2x gpu just 1 good one would do.

I wanted a hex cpu , a flash ssd , and a good gpu not 2 gpus.

I have many t-bolt cases so 0 cost for storage, but I am stuck with a second gpu.

My eyes are not that good so much of my use is on a large 46 inch tv set.

That means iMac = worthless.

mac mini = short on graphics and a bit short on cpu.

well I will have to keep holding on to my pc = i7 3770t cpu , hd7970, ssd, 16gb ram.

In a mini- itx case that holds up to 3 4tb hdds = under 1 k if you don't add the storage.

( it is not that hard to make one apple)


+ mac mini setup for another year or two oh well.

 

[beaker7]

Still proves my point, as in 8 core tasks the quad-core isn't trailing far behind. The 2010 needs 4 extra cores for 10-20% more performance(That's only in a few cases), and many cases, almost no noticeable improvement at all. The new Quad Xeon is so efficient that anyone buying the base definitely won't miss the 2010 8-core.

This means a hex or 12-core new MP will just kill it, stuff it, serve the old Mac Pro for dinner, and flush the bones down the toilet.

Just think how fast it'd be if it had dual CPU capabilities! It'd be as fast as it's competitors!

 

[applegeek897]

In Australia it was always $3,000 for the base, thats what I paid for mine, but now it starts at $4,000 for the base and $5,200 for the 6 core. I'm guessing its going to cost close to 10k for the 12 core.

 

[sigmadog]

A common theme I seem to be reading is that it is "just out of reach" as far as pricing goes. I, too, would be considered a prosumer. I am in school and would like to get a super powerful machine to begin a career on.

But $3000 for the entry model (for some of us who are self employed), is out of reach, for what it comes with.

If I were just starting out, I would get what I could afford and make it work. If that meant an iMac or a Mac Mini, then so be it. Get it. Use it. Make money with it, so you can afford a nicer model down the road.

There is nothing wrong with such a course. We've all done it at one time or another. It's part of life and business - living within your budget.

Edit to add: Funny story, I borrowed from my Dad way back in '92 to get my first Mac. It was a IIfx and it screamed with a massive 40Mhz processor and a 105 Mb hard drive. It cost $10,000. I paid my Dad back within a year from the money I made doing freelance on that computer. I nursed that beast along for four years before upgrading.

 

[TzunamiOSX]

D300 specs looking like a FirePro 7900

Stream-Processors: 1280
256 Bit
2 GB GDDR5
GB/s: 160,0

 

[propower]

For basic audio recording/editing, yes. For orchestral mockups? Not really.

Film composers habitually have two slave PC's attached to their MacPro via VEP, because one computer just can't do the job. They would love to be able to run all of that stuff on just one computer.

Post facilities run everything of their ProTools HD cards because they can't trust native solutions to seamlessly do dialog punch IO's on 150+ track projects.

I don't think even the maxed out MP will replace card based systems any time soon

For high end music production with tons of Virtual Instruments... Real cores, Clock speed and RAM is what is required. At a given point 4 cores just isn't enough. Enter the nMP. When you need that you are probably a bit more than a prosumer and the extra coin is just the cost of doing business

 

[mrxak]

As always, it will depend on what the actual configuration options are. I was expecting $4500+ though, so I'm impressed at $3000. But again, it will depend on configuration options. This Apple announcement was really nothing more than yet another teaser.

 

[clamnectar]

I don't think even the maxed out MP will replace card based systems any time soon

For high end music production with tons of Virtual Instruments... Real cores, Clock speed and RAM is what is required. At a given point 4 cores just isn't enough. Enter the nMP. When you need that you are probably a bit more than a prosumer and the extra coin is just the cost of doing business

I bet the new 6 core with 32 GB RAM could run 64 instances of VSL with 64 instances of Altiverb on them

 

[frez]

beaker7,

You may want to re-read the article.

The point is that complaining about the price only ignores the historical pricing of computers for the last 3 decades. The cost of technology has been on a perpetual downward trend and is many times cheaper today than it has ever been. For those that can't afford the Mac Pro - there is the MBP, iMac and Mac mini.

That is the most irrelevant, illogical, and idiotic way to evaluate the value proposition of the new Mac Pro that has ever been presented.

Bravo.

 

[zephonic]

I don't think even the maxed out MP will replace card based systems any time soon

For high end music production with tons of Virtual Instruments... Real cores, Clock speed and RAM is what is required. At a given point 4 cores just isn't enough. Enter the nMP. When you need that you are probably a bit more than a prosumer and the extra coin is just the cost of doing business

It will be interesting to see where the pro audio community is gonna land. This machine is clearly not targeted at them, and there has been a lot of wailing and gnashing of teeth. Are they gonna stick with their PCIe stuff and move to Windows PC's or stick with Mac and move to ThB?

I don't know, but I'd suspect option A is the lesser evil.

 

[deconstruct60]

D300 specs looking like a FirePro 7900

The FirePro V7900 was released in 2011 and was the top of the line up. The D300 is clearly not the top of the line up here. So yes it looks like it, but that is more so that 1-2 years down the road, the old top of the line-up resource allocation is typically the same as a new mid range card.

The V7900 is also PCIe v2.0 interface which is minally a mismatch ( and at worst a waste ) on a Xeon E5 v2 based system which is capable of PCIe v3.0 .

 

[alphaod]

The FirePro V7900 was released in 2011 and was the top of the line up. The D300 is clearly not the top of the line up here. So yes it looks like it, but that is more so that 1-2 years down the road, the old top of the line-up resource allocation is typically the same as a new mid range card.

The V7900 is also PCIe v2.0 interface which is minally a mismatch ( and at worst a waste ) on a Xeon E5 v2 based system which is capable of PCIe v3.0 .

I'm going to assume the D500 will be the W7000, and the D700 a rebranded W9000.

The latter which will be a very capable card... unfortunately I see it as a $1500 option from Apple.

rip off when there is NO MOUSE and KEYBOARD!!!! WTF apple...slice the apple in half.

Probably because a keyboard and mouse wouldn't fit in the box... unless you want a thumbpad.

 

[deconstruct60]

From the specs:

• •Maximum continuous power: 450W

It's going to make a bit of noise moving the air through to cool that - although it will probably be reasonably quiet if they've managed to avoid turbulence.

That seems to suggest that it will be tough to get everything going at the same time. Budget approximately 130W for CPU+RAM

450W - 130W = 320W

Divide that by 2 for the GPUs ==> 160W. Seems a bit low for what a D700 would likely consume when maxed out. If normal conditions the loads are dynamic and move around from CPU to GPU to GPU then this set up would be all around quieter than something set up to deal with all three going full blast.

 

[propower]

It will be interesting to see where the pro audio community is gonna land. This machine is clearly not targeted at them, and there has been a lot of wailing and gnashing of teeth. Are they gonna stick with their PCIe stuff and move to Windows PC's or stick with Mac and move to ThB?

I don't know, but I'd suspect option A is the lesser evil.

It certainly will be interesting once we get these in peoples hands and see what they think. If it can stay at 14dBA under load - very cool! Will the quad outperform an imac? And all the other things!

I really miss building my own computers (did some amazing Hacks when I still had PCIx cards). Way too hard to keep those current though (for me . Been so long on the Mac eco-system moving to Windows has little appeal as well...

If $$ were no concern - a hex core nMP with 32G RAM even 256 SSD with a decent display would be a huge step up from even the latest imac ...

----------

I bet the new 6 core with 32 GB RAM could run 64 instances of VSL with 64 instances of Altiverb on them

You may very well be right. All indications are this will be a killer machine.

 

[JesperA]

Everyone that is complaining about the price, i dont know what kind of mindset you are in, sure if someone just look at the price, 3´000USD is kinda alot of money, but for me, other factors is much more important, what kind of revenue will a Mac Pro be responsible for (yes i know a cheaper workstation can do the same work), and is 3´000USD really that expensive when it is used as an important tool for the business, look at it this way, the base salary of a Cocoa/Objective-c developer, programmer, music producer, video editor, 3D "sculpture", architect etc can be far north of 100´000USD/Year, even if someone would buy a 5´000USD Mac Pro, the tool for doing great work would only be 5% of the employees salary, some people have kept the current Mac Pro for 5 years, that is 1´000USD/year for a mac pro, 1% of an employees salary per year.

Sure, i dont blame people for going for a more powerful option with Dell or HP but a workspace that relies on OS X and its "apps", the total cost of ownership for a Mac Pro is kind of yeah, dare i say it.....cheap.

Yeah, i know i am gonna get flamed for stating the above but where i work, 100% of our work is done on computers, and it still is the lowest expense we have at our company so not even the beancounters (sorry for that description) will not not even raise an eyebrow on the Mac Pro pricing.

 

[deconstruct60]

I'm going to assume the D500 will be the W7000, and the D700 a rebranded W9000.

The latter which will be a very capable card... unfortunately I see it as a $1500 option from Apple.

The w7000 more closely matches the D300 (the variance is more so on VRAM capacity than computational resources). As a "entry level" offering that is a capable card also.

Probably because a keyboard and mouse wouldn't fit in the box... unless you want a thumbpad.

Far more likely is that Apple looks at how many folks are going to use it. Same reason the Apple remote was dropped over time. It was yet another thing in the box that a substantial proportion of folks didn't ever use.

Most Mac Pro buyers probably already own a keyboard. Those that need another one can buy one. If buying one from Apple at the same time it can just ship in a separate box ( or both boxes in a bigger more nondescript box. )

It isn't because can't make the box that holds more stuff, but question why this additional stuff needs to be in the box in the first place.

Frankly, this whole "OS X is Free" ( along with "iOS is Free" ) just means that more OS upgrade costs are being saddled on the initial purchase price. The other trend is including "stuff" that can just be placed on the storage drive. Whether folks use it or not ( iLife , iWork, etc.) doesn't have much of an impact on shipping container.