$2999 for entry model: what do you think?

[AidenShaw]

Flaw in your logic

Any of you remember the Apple LCII back in the year 1991 which cost around $3000 smackers out-the-door?? I bought one and it was a great computer.

This new Mac sounds about the right price.

I have a super-hex (about 12" x 16") memory card (we call them DIMMs now, but they were the size of a folded newspaper in 1980) from a VAX-11/780 in my office as a conversation piece.

It was about $24K for 128 KiB of memory at the time. That's 18.3¢ per byte.

So, by your logic, wouldn't the "right price" for the 12 GiB entry Mac Pro be around 2.4 billion dollars? Because that's on the low end of what 12 GiB of RAM would have cost in 1980....

Just pointing out the absurdity of any argument about computer pricing that references systems that are several decades old.

 

[Yahooligan]

CPU is going to be VERY similar there. GPU might be too, much more than you think. You are ignoring the way things are optimized. What do you pay for with a notebook? You pay for a portable machine. In raw computing power the difference used to be magnitudes apart compared to what it is today. Really the specs are not far off from what was used in the $2500 model adjusted for hardware generation. I wouldn't tell you not to buy it, but it is a price hike.

Considering I use FCPX, Compressor, etc and the new/update for FCPX will be optimized to make use of the GPUs in the nMP, I actually didn't ignore the way things are optimized.

You're also forgetting that the iMac uses a mobile GPU, not a desktop GPU, so there's already a deficit between them.

If I were to use it for basic browsing, gaming, photos, etc then an iMac would work just fine and there wouldn't really be any advantage to the nMP, I agree. I think you made the wrong assumption about my use, though, and assumed I'm just Joe User.

 

[thekev]

Considering I use FCPX, Compressor, etc and the new/update for FCPX will be optimized to make use of the GPUs in the nMP, I actually didn't ignore the way things are optimized.

That is an extremely valid point. I'm just annoyed with the way it's priced, as every generation has been either a price hike or chopped features relative to the prior comparable model.

You're also forgetting that the iMac uses a mobile GPU, not a desktop GPU, so there's already a deficit between them.

I didn't ignore that. The new imac states that it's a 775m. I haven't looked up that one. The 680mx was around 30% slower than a 680 IIRC. Neither is going to be found in most notebooks. It's going to come down to what they really label as a D300. Even the standard 7970s came with 3GB of vram. If the price increase was to float an extra gpu, it would have been about enough to cover 2, considering one 5870 was $450 through Apple retail in the past. What annoys me is that they are potentially changing around names to obfuscate base gpu specs, when the machine is clearly optimized for GPGPU. If it's an older design, they may very well be closer than I would expect for the price. I'm saying it may be two low end to barely mid range workstation cards in a $3k machine. I also mentioned that the cpu was similar in terms of raw performance, but those cpus are also the same price according to intel. The quad appears to be an E5-1620v2. Anyway I would like to hear how it works out. I dislike the imac due to other things.

 

[gugy]

I am a bit on the fence about the nMP. I have a 2010 12 core that does handle well my current needs (Photoshop/AfterEffects) but my Applecare is expiring soon early next year. So I really need to upgrade.
I just think it's suicidal have a MP without it. My last three MPs had major issues, usually related to video cards and if it wasn't for Applecare, I would have to fork thousands of US$ to address those problems.

That said to get an equivalent 12 core on the nMP, I think I will look at a sticker price shocker of $5k to $6k just to start. Adding all the extra RAM and storage, this puppy could very well get close $8 to $10k. OUCH!!!

 

[theSeb]

You do realise most people here are buying for personal use and don't understand company/corporate tax right? If you're buying it for personal use it is cheaper go to America and pick one up while you're out there (providing you were already planning on flying out)..that's how I bought my 5d mark III.

Just don't get caught in customs lol.

Agreed, if you were planning to go there.

 

[CitrusPisser]

4k in Australia, very disappointed.

 

[xxBURT0Nxx]

I don't think it's a terrible deal.

Honestly what I found most shocking is that you are still stuck with 256gb flash storage in the $4,000 model. A $1,000 spec bump and they couldn't even increase the memory??

Oh well, I still want one!

 

[Roykor]

This guy haves a point..right? with the expansion issues (he is making a joke about the mac Pro)

http://youtu.be/y0yoTarZR-0

 

[Roykor]

I'm in a similar boat - I waited out to see what the spec/cost would be and I think whilst it is a great machine, the lowest spec would offer little benefit against a maxed out iMac. Wouldn't call that penny pinching, i'd call it being cost efficient No point spending crap loads on a machine that will have more
functionality than you use.

The choice I had was to wait and order a Mac Pro:
- a base unit (£2500)
- a display (£900)
- apple care (probably around £150)
- a keyboard and mouse (£130 - talk about penny pinching - it doesn't even come with a keyboard or mouse)

All for a grand total of £3680.

I decided to order:

- 27" iMac
- 32GB Kingston HyperX CL9 1600mhz
- Applecare

All for £2892.35

Quick Comparison of the two (iMac spec shown is what I went with):

Mac Pro - 3.7GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon E5 processor
iMac - 3.5GHz Quad-core Intel Core i7, Turbo Boost up to 3.9GHz

Mac Pro - 12GB 1866MHz DDR3 ECC memory
iMac - 32GB 1600Mhz DDR3 Non-ECC CL9 Memory

Mac Pro - 256GB PCIe-based flash storage</td>
iMac - 512GB flash Storage (not sure if they use the PCIe slot or a SATA III SSD when it's not a fusion drive combo :-/)

Mac Pro - Dual AMD FirePro D300 with 2GB GDDR5 VRAM each
iMac - NVIDIA GeForce GTX 780M 4GB GDDR5

I'm a web/print designer and occasionally do a little bit of video editing and animation. I use a console for gaming so in reality, it was a no brainer... £800 less and I probably wouldn't even notice the difference in performance for what I do, plus less cables/cleaner looking setup.

this sounds interesting for me too. I am still in a split. For some reason.. the Mac Pro is in the corner of my eye.. and still thinking about it. I have 3 options now.

ps: i work for 80% in Photoshop (big drawings) and illustrator ( a lot of vectors)

1) Mac Pro.. cost a lot (2x the rest under this).. is a beast. Will be a disappointment in bootcamp / gaming i guess, but will be flying in PS / Illustrator.

2) Maxed out iMac, with 32gb mem (not buying that in the appstore) (good price / not bad in gaming)

3) Building a hackingtosh. Cheaper, ultra fast, upgradable. I can even game with this on high / ultra. (but this is not totally legal)

Dammit, this is blowing my brains to the ceiling. pfffff

 

[SamTheeGeek]

Do you need hex core bundle or quad for watching 4k movies?

 

[jordanm86]

this sounds interesting for me too. I am still in a split. For some reason.. the Mac Pro is in the corner of my eye.. and still thinking about it. I have 3 options now.

ps: i work for 80% in Photoshop (big drawings) and illustrator ( a lot of vectors)

1) Mac Pro.. cost a lot (2x the rest under this).. is a beast. Will be a disappointment in bootcamp / gaming i guess, but will be flying in PS / Illustrator.

2) Maxed out iMac, with 32gb mem (not buying that in the appstore) (good price / not bad in gaming)

3) Building a hackingtosh. Cheaper, ultra fast, upgradable. I can even game with this on high / ultra. (but this is not totally legal)

Dammit, this is blowing my brains to the ceiling. pfffff

I think a maxed out iMac should be enough for photoshop and illustrator. At present, I am working on a MBP Intel Core Duo 2.53Ghz, 8GB RAM, GeForce 9400M 256 MB Graphics, 320GB HDD so I am hoping to see a massive difference!

For gaming, I would imagine it's ok but you're never going to get the same performance as you would out of a high end gaming rig or a console.

Personally, if I want to play games, I'll do it on a console and occasionally on my mac ( though I don't play any flight sims or anything else that requires a lot of 'oomph') and it's enough for me to get by

 

[Roykor]

I think a maxed out iMac should be enough for photoshop and illustrator. At present, I am working on a MBP Intel Core Duo 2.53Ghz, 8GB RAM, GeForce 9400M 256 MB Graphics, 320GB HDD so I am hoping to see a massive difference!

For gaming, I would imagine it's ok but you're never going to get the same performance as you would out of a high end gaming rig or a console.

Personally, if I want to play games, I'll do it on a console and occasionally on my mac ( though I don't play any flight sims or anything else that requires a lot of 'oomph') and it's enough for me to get by

Nah.. a do not play FPS games on a Console. And the console is way outdated lately with the graphics.. even the new ones are all ready behind the today PC graphics. But, if i choose a fully maxed out iMac.. i can game on high easy, cause i can game on low / mid now (iMac 12,2) ..

today i work on a big illustrator document. A1 format and a looooot of vectors inside ( i created a fantasy map). The thing is, when i create a effect on a line.. my iMac will be working on that for minutes. And when i zoom out, he again will work on this for minutes. I think this is the moment where only 4 cores are working on this document, and my i5 3.1 ghz is the bottleneck, right?

So.. that is the point where i scrap my head and think the about my 3 options. Kinda frustrating

 

[theluggage]

Honestly what I found most shocking is that you are still stuck with 256gb flash storage in the $4,000 model. A $1,000 spec bump and they couldn't even increase the memory??

First, the typical configuration for a Mac Pro will be to use the 256GB SSD for system, application and some temp files, and then attach whatever external storage solution best fits your application. If so, 256GB is plenty and you don't want to be forced to pay $$$ for a huge internal SSD that you don't need, just to get the faster CPU.

Also, from the pictures it looks like the SSD blade is easily user-replaceable, so it is likely that third-party updates will appear. Starting with 256GB and waiting to see what 1TB SSD blades are going for in 6 months' time might not be a bad idea.

t
1) Mac Pro.. cost a lot (2x the rest under this).. is a beast. Will be a disappointment in bootcamp / gaming i guess, but will be flying in PS / Illustrator.

Yeah - I think the bottom line is that the Mac Pro price means "forget it if you don't use OpenCL-accelerated applications". I think the best approach is to wait for the real-world benchmarks to see (a) how much Mavericks benefits from using OpenCL for core services and (b) what the actual performance of the GPUs is, and how much you'd have to spend to get comparable performance in a PC.

 

[haravikk]

There it is: $2,999.

I actually think $3000 is reasonable, I mean just compare that to an older entry level Mac Pro with two professional graphics cards installed and it's positively a bargain by Apple's standards. Okay yeah, the loss of internal storage is a bummer, but a lot of the professionals using a Mac Pro probably already have external RAID to take them past four drives anyway, I expect it's mostly less high-end users (like me) that have been keeping things internal up till now and just making use of every squad inch of free space. Moving to external is a little daunting, but with the PCIe internal drive a Fusion drive ought to perform very nicely in that setup.


What I'm more annoyed by is the international pricing of the new Mac Pro. I know we've always suffered this in the past, but here in the UK the new Mac Pro is £2,499! A rough conversion from dollars is £1,852, plus 20% VAT is £2,222, so where is that extra £178 going? We're effectively going to be paying 20% VAT and 15% random Apple tax; I can't believe a UK kettle power cord costs so much to provide!

It gets worse for the 6-core model as well, so I shudder to think what a 12-core would cost, not that I'm likely to ever afford one.

 

[N19h7m4r3]

What I'm more annoyed by is the international pricing of the new Mac Pro. I know we've always suffered this in the past, but here in the UK the new Mac Pro is £2,499! A rough conversion from dollars is £1,852, plus 20% VAT is £2,222, so where is that extra £178 going? We're effectively going to be paying 20% VAT and 15% random Apple tax; I can't believe a UK kettle power cord costs so much to provide!

It gets worse for the 6-core model as well, so I shudder to think what a 12-core would cost, not that I'm likely to ever afford one.

Ireland isn't better off, I think it's worse considering the massive tax break we give their Irish company.

The base model costs €3099 here.

Current conversion on XE $3000 = € 2,172.82
Vat at 23% on that is €2,672.57

So an extra mark up of €426.33 after Vat has been added.

I envy those yanks that can buy items Vat free in some states.

 

[Halon]

Bootcamp & new Mac Pro

I was wondering if the new Mac Pro would run Bootcamp? I assume it would if the SSD was large enough. I'm guessing that you would need at least 512g SSD for this to be possible. Im thinking the next concern would be windows drivers for the new graphic cards?

Looking for thoughts on this subject as if I buy a new Mac Pro for work, I would still like to be able to play an occasional Windows game.

 

[dfuerpo]

A quandary for me

I'm a photography enthusiast who uses Lightroom, Photoshop, and other photo editing programs. No 3D or video work. I have a 2009 Mac Pro which has been upgraded with the 2010 firmware and a 6-core CPU (W3680 @ 3.33 GHz). So basically its a 5,1 6-core single CPU MP. I think the new MP is cool but a lot of the cost is the dual GPU, which would be wasted on my 2D raster work. To get more CPU power (8 or 12 cores) it would probably cost $5K. Of course I would get thunderbolt and the faster SSD. Money isn't a big issue, but I hate paying for something I don't really need. I'm thinking of staying pat for now. Have I missed something?

 

[slughead]

I was wondering if the new Mac Pro would run Bootcamp? I assume it would if the SSD was large enough. I'm guessing that you would need at least 512g SSD for this to be possible. Im thinking the next concern would be windows drivers for the new graphic cards?

Looking for thoughts on this subject as if I buy a new Mac Pro for work, I would still like to be able to play an occasional Windows game.

Let's say you partition your 256GB 50/50 into two 128GB partitions. 128GB is certainly enough to hold OSX, probably all your apps, windows 7 or 8, and probably all of your windows Apps

OS X and windows are < 20GB each. Apps aren't that big either, usually.

However, if you have any kind of data, movies, and PC games, your HD will fill up quickly. Should be good enough to browse the web on each platform though

We have no idea how much the 512GB upgrade will cost, but it will undisputedly be more money than an external multi-terabyte platter storage solution (either TB2 or USB3). I might be willing to put money on it being more expensive than an external RAID10 SATA SSD storage solution, but that remains to be seen.

I run bootcamp all the time. If someone were to give me a nMP (and compel me not to sell it immediately), I would probably store my data externally in redundant platter drives. I'd probably go with a TB2 HD array or TB2 -> eSATA controller and hook it to an eSATA array.

 

[CausticPuppy]

Do you need hex core bundle or quad for watching 4k movies?

4K videos play just fine on my dual-core 13" retina macbook pro (running at 3840x2048 scaled resolution-- which hurts my eyeballs on a 13" screen)

Watching movies doesn't require nearly as much hardware as rendering movies.

 

[SamTheeGeek]

4K videos play just fine on my dual-core 13" retina macbook pro (running at 3840x2048 scaled resolution-- which hurts my eyeballs on a 13" screen)

Watching movies doesn't require nearly as much hardware as rendering movies.

Thats good to know that you got it to run, as for rendering im working on 1080p videos so far, now im thinking quad or hex?

 

[CausticPuppy]

Thats good to know that you got it to run, as for rendering im working on 1080p videos so far, now im thinking quad or hex?

Hex would be better for rendering. More cores will help considerably.

Some software still benefits from higher single-core clock speed, in which case the quad-core would be better.

 

[Grohowiak]

I think most people on here are prosumers and enthusiasts. Some are likely professionals working alone where money will be tight.

I will be ordering as soon as it becomes available. Already updated my sig I will get the 8 core for my home office. I will have to look at the best mix for the office as we will be ordering quite a few. Can't wait to get these hooked up to 4k monitors as well.

When I first started my business I was using windows and building my own computers. As it grew into a medium size operation and OSX came about I could no longer be bothered with Windows and moved to Mac. Since then we have grown the business substantially. It would be totally crazy to try and operate with 'home' built PCs at this level. I can sympathise with people starting out. Its a struggle to try to make ends meet for sure. Especially as the competition grows and always seem to work on the best gear.

C

Just becasue I can afford one, doesn't mean I'm stupid to buy it.
That's where you brain starts to work. Also this home build PCs... You do realize that Mac is built frome same components it's just packed in a thrashcan right?? I though that operating at your level would make obvious things... well obvious?? haha what a curb.

 

[Catch]

Just becasue I can afford one, doesn't mean I'm stupid to buy it.
That's where you brain starts to work. Also this home build PCs... You do realize that Mac is built frome same components it's just packed in a thrashcan right?? I though that operating at your level would make obvious things... well obvious?? haha what a curb.

You clearly have no idea how business works. We are invested in staff, training, technicians, software, support contracts etc etc. We have long established workflows that integrate freelance professionals as well as part and full time staff. What do you think we should do? Throw out years of established and hugely successful procedures and build a business around violating user terms, effectively breaking the law? Maybe we should use pirated copies of our software to make more savings? Drop all the tens of thousands in training and convert everything to windows?

These machines will be incredible in our workflow and I have great hopes that the software developers will enable all the power to work for us in time. Apple have said they will make full use of both CPU and GPUs.

Not sure what you do or how you work, but good luck with it. We are in the business of making money and keeping customers. These machines are what we want for that.

Have a nice day,

C

 

[SamTheeGeek]

Hex would be better for rendering. More cores will help considerably.

Some software still benefits from higher single-core clock speed, in which case the quad-core would be better.

Agreed, im looking to upgrade from 6tb WD My book usb 2.0 external drive to thunderbolt 6tb wd, i don't wanna pay more for the internal drive, 256 is more than enough for my apps

 

[thekev]

That said to get an equivalent 12 core on the nMP, I think I will look at a sticker price shocker of $5k to $6k just to start. Adding all the extra RAM and storage, this puppy could very well get close $8 to $10k. OUCH!!!

Ram is just in standard dimm form. You can buy it after market, although I recommend testing every stick.