3D Rendering on Apple Silicon, CPU&GPU

[metapunk2077fail]

It's official. Cycles has a Metal GPU backend!

Cycles Apple Metal device feedback

Cycles now has a Metal GPU backend, contributed by Apple. Metal GPU rendering is currently supported on Apple Silicon computers running macOS 12.2 Apple computers with AMD graphics card running macOS 12.3 The implementation is in an early state. Performance optimizations and support for Intel...

devtalk.blender.org

The 3.1 build I downloaded yesterday didn't have the Metal option but I've seen others post screenshots with the option.

 

[metapunk2077fail]

have you guys seen this review of the new GPUs from nvidia?

That might be a prank but this one is real...

 

[mi7chy]

He didn't bench them on battery like others did. That's when the RTX performance crashes through the floor.

How long do you think the Macbook Pro M1 Max with 100Wh battery lasts at 90W load? PC laptops default to battery saving while Macbook Pro defaults to killing the battery after about an hour.

 

[metapunk2077fail]

How long do you think the Macbook Pro M1 Max with 100Wh battery lasts at 90W load? PC laptops default to battery saving while Macbook Pro defaults to killing the battery after about an hour.

That's the point. If you're doing brief renders or gaming away from your desk the performance will crash on those PC laptops but not on the Max.

If you're plugged in sure the RTX will be faster but I'd rather have a desktop tower for maximum render performance. I don't think laptops should be used for long renders because the thermal paste on them will dry out sooner rather than later.

 

[mi7chy]

That's the point. If you're doing brief renders or gaming away from your desk the performance will crash on those PC laptops but not on the Max.

That's the exception. Most people don't want their battery to die after about an hour with no access to outlet just so they can flex that they ran full load.

 

[jeanlain]

That's the exception. Most people don't want their battery to die after about an hour with no access to outlet just so they can flex that they ran full load.

I'm not sure a competing PC would last longer than an M1 Max on battery.

 

[mi7chy]

I'm not sure a competing PC would last longer than an M1 Max on battery.

70W 3060 dGPU is about 3x faster on BMW render than 24-core M1 Max iGPU and 2.6x faster than 60W 32-core M1 Max iGPU. So, 70W 3060 uses 17% more power but delivers 2.6x the performance or longer battery life since it does more work per Wh. No contest on the price since at $1200 it costs about the same as the slow poke MBA M1 or for the price of one 16" M1 Max you can get three 3060s for a render farm.

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/lenovo...12gb-ssd-shadow-black/6470819.p?skuId=6470819

 

[jeanlain]

The 3x performance difference only applies to redshift rendering likely using inadequate chunk size for the Apple GPU. It's not a general case as opposed to what is implied in your previous post.
Even on blender using optix, the performance disparity is far from being 3x (1.54x using different version of blenders and before performance tuning for Metal.)

On most tasks not using RT cores, it is the M1 (Pro/Max) that is more energy-efficient than the duo X86-dGPU. It should be the case for rasterisation using optimised Metal renderers on the Mac.
The performance advantage should be more drastic during video editing, thanks to UMA. I'd be surprised in the Mac didn't last significantly longer than any competing PC on battery on DaVinci, for instance,
And we're not talking about CPU-only workflows.

 

[BootLoxes]

Found this on the substance painter forums

 

[leman]

Question about Phoronix Blender benchmarks: what kind of settings do they use actually? I looked at the scripts but it doesn't seem like they are setting up anything specific (or maybe I just missed it?). Are we sure that all GPUs do the same amount of work, or are there some platform-specific differences with regards to denoising and convergence?

 

[throAU]

He didn't bench them on battery like others did. That's when the RTX performance crashes through the floor.

Also, he wasn't benching with blender 3.1.

It isn't out yet (it's in alpha), however versions prior to 3.1 aren't using the Apple GPU at all.

 

[sirio76]

If anyone is interested now Vray is running native code, here I've done a couple tests about the Cinema4D viewport and IPR using Vray:

 

[BootLoxes]

Zbrush just got bought out by maxon

Maxon Announces an Agreement to Acquire the Assets of Pixologic,…

Acquisition Brings Industry-Leading 3D Sculpting and Painting Expertise to Maxon

www.maxon.net

 

[jujoje]

If anyone is interested now Vray is running native code, here I've done a couple tests about the Cinema4D viewport and IPR using Vray:

Can't say I've used vray much but that was pretty cool to see Always sucks that you've got to put a disclaimer that you've got a pc as well in order to ward off the flame wars.

Zbrush just got bought out by maxon

Maxon Announces an Agreement to Acquire the Assets of Pixologic,…

Acquisition Brings Industry-Leading 3D Sculpting and Painting Expertise to Maxon

www.maxon.net

I guess the real question in what this means for Forger

Kinda sad to see Zbrush bought out by Maxon. I meant it could be worse, it could be Autodesk. Hopefully it maintains some degree of autonomy from the rest of Maxon's products and continues to be developed (unlike like Mudbox). Between this and Unity buying Weta this has been an interesting year for acquisitions.

Unrelatedly tried Blender 3.1 on my MBA and the kindest thing I can say is that it worked - wasn't expecting much from the 7 core gpu and kind of got what I expected. Pretty cool to see it up and running though. With Blender getting improved usd support, wondering at the possibility of exporting from Maya / Houdini via USD to Blender (basically using Blender as a cycles viewport ). Resisting buying the M1 Max is becoming harder every day...

 

[BootLoxes]

Kinda sad to see Zbrush bought out by Maxon. I meant it could be worse, it could be Autodesk.

I am still broken over this. Zbrush is my fav 3d software of all time. Zbrush, substance painter, and marmoset toolbag were all i needed. Now 2 of the 3 were bought out and heading in very unsettling directions.

I know both will eventually go sub only and I will be forced onto a new program.... in this situation its blender which i am not a fan of.

 

[iPadified]

I am still broken over this. Zbrush is my fav 3d software of all time. Zbrush, substance painter, and marmoset toolbag were all i needed. Now 2 of the 3 were bought out and heading in very unsettling directions.

I know both will eventually go sub only and I will be forced onto a new program.... in this situation its blender which i am not a fan of.

Why is not Blender good? Just different or poorer tools? Personally, I prefer Modo over Blender so I appreciate preference without substantial arguments about features.

 

[BootLoxes]

Why is not Blender good? Just different or poorer tools? Personally, I prefer Modo over Blender so I appreciate preference without substantial arguments about features.

I mostly do digital sculpting and blender just isnt as good in that department. Same for texturing. Blender cant compare to substance painter in that department.

It just sucks knowing eventually i am going to have to accept that i have to use worse tools for my hobby.

Blender is a good software for sure but for me its just a rig and pose tool. I prefer specialized software over a jack-of-all-trades program that does things at an average level

 

[jujoje]

Why is not Blender good? Just different or poorer tools? Personally, I prefer Modo over Blender so I appreciate preference without substantial arguments about features.

How are things on the Modo side of the fence these days? Was at a studio that used lightwave when Modo came out, and it was so much better. Then Foundry bought it and it kinda petered out a bit. Is it still getting meaningful updates? Been checking out the new features now and then but nothings grabbed me.

Haven't really found any modelling software that's really worked for me since Modo and Silo; try blender now and then, but it's never quite stuck.

I am still broken over this. Zbrush is my fav 3d software of all time. Zbrush, substance painter, and marmoset toolbag were all i needed. Now 2 of the 3 were bought out and heading in very unsettling directions.

I know both will eventually go sub only and I will be forced onto a new program.... in this situation its blender which i am not a fan of.

How about 3D Coat? It's always been a bit idiosyncratic, but seemed really powerful, adopts new workflows and technologies quickly (iirc was one of the first with voxel sculpting)? Seen some nice things from it, and also has at least some of the features of Painter.

 

[jujoje]

Just went to the Modo forums to see how things were going on the Mac side; well there's a lot of pretty disgruntled people. Reminded me that the reason I stopped using Modo was the Mac viewport was broken and crash. And here we are 10 years later and apparently it still is

 

[Xiao_Xi]

I mostly do digital sculpting and blender just isnt as good in that department. Same for texturing.

It seems Blender will improve its texturing and sculping tools next year.

Blender 3.x roadmap — Blender Developers Blog

Ton Roosendaal shares on what's next after Blender 3.0 and beyond.

code.blender.org

While you are waiting for your favourite software to get better support in Apple Silicon, you could provide feedback to Blender devs.

 

[BootLoxes]

How about 3D Coat? It's always been a bit idiosyncratic, but seemed really powerful, adopts new workflows and technologies quickly (iirc was one of the first with voxel sculpting)? Seen some nice things from it, and also has at least some of the features of Painter.

Ive actually been looking heavily into it as of today. No reason to buy it yet while substance painter and zbrush are still perpetual. But when that day does come I am either going to 3dcoat or going all in on blender

It seems Blender will improve its texturing and sculping tools next year.

Blender 3.x roadmap — Blender Developers Blog

Ton Roosendaal shares on what's next after Blender 3.0 and beyond.

code.blender.org

While you are waiting for your favourite software to get better support in Apple Silicon, you could provide feedback to Blender devs.

Yeah i do wish zbrush was native but honestly its a cpu only program so outside of better battery-life and slightly better performance its not the end of the world. That said I have been hit with a wake-up call and do plan to start spending more time in blender to help soften the most likely inevitable transition.

 

[iPadified]

Just went to the Modo forums to see how things were going on the Mac side; well there's a lot of pretty disgruntled people. Reminded me that the reason I stopped using Modo was the Mac viewport was broken and crash. And here we are 10 years later and apparently it still is

It has been bad to be a Mac user for 10 years at Modo but I still prefer the modelling experience compared to Blender. Modo CPU renders also created great looking renders without extensive tweaking compared to Blender. I have abandoned Modo since it was too much admin to get faculty discounts every year.

 

[ader42]

As a Mac afficionado I don’t mind Maxon buying ZBrush too much seeing as how Maxon are pro-Mac.
It might even improve things for Mac users and should get us Apple Silicon native version sooner.

As long as they keep it separate and don’t just roll ZBrush functionality into Cinema4D - I don’t think they would do that though.

Personally I can’t stand Blender as I find it’s UI awful - I’d rather pay for better tools.

 

[BootLoxes]

As a Mac afficionado I don’t mind Maxon buying ZBrush too much seeing as how Maxon are pro-Mac.
It might even improve things for Mac users and should get us Apple Silicon native version sooner.

As long as they keep it separate and don’t just roll ZBrush functionality into Cinema4D - I don’t think they would do that though.

Personally I can’t stand Blender as I find it’s UI awful - I’d rather pay for better tools.

This is the only potential silver lining I see as well. Maxon would more likely prioritize getting it on apple silicon asap. Not to mention all their software to my knowledge works on linux meaning zbrush might finally be expanded over there.

There is also the possibility of putting the zbrush code into forger on Ipad to improve it, or reworking zbrush in a way that would work on the ipads. The big issue is the price. Maxon isnt indie or hobbyist friendly so who knows how expensive zbrush is about to get. I just hope that the perpetual licenses get a native apple silicon version before it goes the inevitable subscription only way.

 

[singhs.apps]

If anyone is interested now Vray is running native code, here I've done a couple tests about the Cinema4D viewport and IPR using Vray:

Your model looks beautiful. Was it created entirely in Cinema4D ? Poly count ?
Also what’s the poly editing performance in the AS mbp for such scenes ?