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AndreeOnline

macrumors 6502a
Aug 15, 2014
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Actually that ain't predictions, he's just looking at rearview mirror,
I can assure you that Gurman is not writing his predictions by looking in the rearview mirror. He gets his information from somewhere in the delivery chain. There are many problems with this kind of source of information, however. His informants might see/get bits and pieces of information out of context and out of timeline. Apple is actively fighting leaks more than before and if you follow leaks like this you need to apply your own judgement and weigh it against other more or less sketchy data points.

like driving a Big Truck you "predicts" the road ahead by the road you leave behind...
...what?

Basically he concedes he's a moron at Apple as maybe everyone here (except Tim Cook which is registered under... Sorry I'm just kidding)
Completely unnecessary.

There are many here, myself included, who would be more than delighted if Apple could surprise us with something like a raytracing add-on card—like the Afterburner, but for 3D. Or if it turns out that Apple didn't scrap the Extreme version of dual Ultras. Make no mistake though, that would be eyewateringly expensive.

So far, the single thing that bring me most hope is probably Amethyst's friend who—when asked about GPUs—replied with a 😎.

Hard to say what that means. It seems like something, but it might just be early tests or end up as nothing.
 

mattspace

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Jun 5, 2013
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What kind of question is it, though?

What is a baker, if he is not baking bread? What is a mechanic, if he's not fixing things? A teacher, if he's not teaching?

My point is that Gurman, like Gruber have little to no professional utility outside of commenting / speculating specifically on Apple. They have a vested interest in generating Apple-related news, rather than reporting what happens.

It's more akin to a fire fighter, who lights fires to keep themselves employed.

Is Gurman an actual journalist who could be just as prolific on non-Apple subjects, or is he a "tech journalist" ie someone who rewrites press releases and product marketing material?

Publishing stuff you've made up out of whole cloth, isn't journalism. And frankly, I believe that's the overwhelming majority of what Gurman does.

To me, it's pretty obvious how the prominent rumor dealers operate. They are obviously connected somehow.

If they're connected, we can probably assume they're an undocumented formal part of the company's PR apparatus, probably on an undocumented payroll, and their goal is to "prepare the way" by setting expectations - either to set them to be "realistic" or to wildly under-promise, so the reveal gets the most "wow".

I guess we'll see how far off he is. Seems very close to the OP's first post here, just scaled back to 'Ultra'.

That's the thing about the fuzzy and slightly generic "leaks" most of the time it's shooting the side of the barn and painting targets afterwards.
 

mattspace

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Jun 5, 2013
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The fact the the OP has gone pretty much dead silent on this thread is lmaost as laughable as everyone lapping it like a cat with creams.

If there was any truth to the OP post, the person he was getting info from is probably in a gulag somewhere, being interrogated by the former FBI types Apple contracts in their "employee relations" division. The same people who break into former employees houses, etc.

You can bet that every test prototype sent to 3rd parties is sufficiently unique in its configuration that just by reporting its specs, Apple knows who the leaker is. And the "leak" here has been multiple machines of different specs.
 

Mago

macrumors 68030
Aug 16, 2011
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My point is that Gurman, like Gruber have little to no professional utility outside of commenting / speculating specifically on Apple. They have a vested interest in generating Apple-related news, rather than reporting what happens.

It's more akin to a fire fighter, who lights fires to keep themselves employed.

Is Gurman an actual journalist who could be just as prolific on non-Apple subjects, or is he a "tech journalist" ie someone who rewrites press releases and product marketing material?

Publishing stuff you've made up out of whole cloth, isn't journalism. And frankly, I believe that's the overwhelming majority of what Gurman does.



If they're connected, we can probably assume they're an undocumented formal part of the company's PR apparatus, probably on an undocumented payroll, and their goal is to "prepare the way" by setting expectations - either to set them to be "realistic" or to wildly under-promise, so the reveal gets the most "wow".



That's the thing about the fuzzy and slightly generic "leaks" most of the time it's shooting the side of the barn and painting targets afterwards.
YOU GOT MY APPLAUSE
You can bet that every test prototype sent to 3rd parties is sufficiently unique in its configuration that just by reporting its specs, Apple knows who the leaker is. And the "leak" here has been multiple machines of different specs.
Gotcha
 

AndreeOnline

macrumors 6502a
Aug 15, 2014
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My point is that Gurman...
I don't really agree with your views on Gurman, but I appreciated the clear and calm way you presented them.

I don't think he invents stuff out of thin air, and I do think he has some sort of information provider. As a tech blogger/journalist, he is probably guilty of being active in the echo chamber where everyone circulates and rewrites each other's news.


...like Gruber have little to no professional utility outside of commenting / speculating specifically on Apple.
To me, Gruber is a bit of a different animal. In the very early days, he tried to do some sort of sanctioned leaking, but that is more or less over since... forever. Today he is an analyst, for better or worse. You can like him or not, but my feeling is he is pretty appreciated among his followers. He is rather uncontroversial and un-confrontational and takes it upon himself to "makes sense out of things" within his area of interest—mainly large perspective Apple. You are right in that his "value" lies within commenting on Apple-related events.


If they're connected, we can probably assume they're an undocumented formal part of the company's PR apparatus, probably on an undocumented payroll, and their goal is to "prepare the way" by setting expectations - either to set them to be "realistic" or to wildly under-promise, so the reveal gets the most "wow".
I think Apple has, on rare occasions, gone via trusted sources to spread information early (I reserve 'leaks' for unintentionally spreading information). But that has not been via Gurman or the likes of him.
 

Mago

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Aug 16, 2011
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There are many problems with this kind of source of information, however. His informants might see/get bits and pieces of information out of context and out of timeline. Apple is actively fighting leaks more than before and if you follow leaks like this you need to apply your own judgement and weigh it against other more or less sketchy data points.
Exactly, that's why I'm so confident Gurman is not leaking, just guessing based on what's he see (and understand) at the rearview, Gurman has no Electronics SOC background, even I'm not sure he has a formal Journalist degree. (IMHO not, please enlightenment me)
I can assure you that Gurman is not writing his predictions by looking in the rearview mirror. He gets his information from somewhere in the delivery chain.
Same as Kuo, Proser, and me.

Did you know I leaked here the trashcan Mac pro when Gurman and most ppl didn't expect an radical new form factor, I got then some DM from people I'm aware working at Apple legal, but I didn't break any law then.

The Mac Pro IMHO historically it's the most difficult apple products to gather r&d leaks.

As @mattspace point out, Apple practice now is to ship different prototypes at different stages to software R&D as maybe the one from the OP alleged leak. But often apple deliberately leaks huge details in order to build expectations even froze the market as early hit in face a huge rival announcement (like was the iphone 4 'forgotten' at the pub).

But what tells me Gurman lacks any background and he's just speculating with whatever he understands and feel sure about (rearview mirror guessing), are his incoherence:


Just two quite clear (among many):

"Apple won't launch the M2 Extreme as it will require a number if M2 Max soc apple need to keep MBP production running...."

Has non sense, 1st a Mac pro may eat as much as 2 or 4 m2 max, (4 MBP) a but when ppl has made any row to purchase an Mac Pro, likely Mac pro to MBP sales ratio gap if bigger than 1:100 , add this apple even cut MBP orders on weak market. So I'm as Apple production manager likely would ask for ways to sell more m2 max products given the monster Mac Pro barely eats 4 at time on time.

"The Mac Pro to include PCIe (maybe dGPU), but keep the same M2 ultra SOC with soldered RAM as the Mac Studio with exactly same ram configurations",

Again he's just looking at the rearview (in a view from what he understands), first incoherence: having PCIe slots GPU capable but no discreet RAM, while Apple is consistent stingy miser about allowing diy upgrades, the Modular Mac (aka Mac Pro) always been an exception on the same reasons it exists, it's an professional product expensive which users often Taylor to it's particular workflows, current Mac Pro can hold 1.5 TB of ram, amount you don't need to post here, but in niche workflows are even barely usable, the ASi until now didn't include RCD chips, what is needed to interface CPU fabric with discreet ram modules, it doesn't add latency are more like electric noise filters, but even increasing latency slightly it won't tax the overall soc performance given the monster L2 cache ASi has (4mb), what is not clear is the GPU, M1 ASi lacks DMA at its thunderbolt ports which prevented it to run an eGPU by booting Linux, it maybe deliberated, or not I'm not sure, but thinking as the typical studio using a Mac Pro for rendering or vídeo production, it may prevents a huge portion (the most important) of user to acquire the Mac Pro, so the Mac Pro either should provide dDPU support (as it seems) or an alternative compute accelerator to replace it.

Finally the Mac Pro also it's an Apple Halo Show product, Apple marketing won't afford it to be worthless capable than the 7,1.


From my personal information gathering, I'm confident Apple to deliver both PCIe expansion and discreet ram DDR5, cues on the GPU issue are confusing but at least apple is working either on an accelerator card (similar afterburner) or enabling AMD GPUs at least as compute accelerators.
 

Mago

macrumors 68030
Aug 16, 2011
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Beyond the Thunderdome
M2 Max has provisions for not One but: Two ultrafusion.

Maybe serial stackable in 1,2,3...4? "Sockets" plus a mega I/o phy.

So the m2 Mac pro cpu complex likely to look like this:
Code:
  SSD «» [PHY I/O] «» (mux) PCIe5 ... 4, usb4
           (UF+)
Ram (RCD) [M2 Max] (RCD) Ram
           (UF+)
Ram (RCD) [M2 Max] (RCD) Ram
           (UF+)
Ram (RCD) [M2 Max] (RCD) Ram
           (UF+)
Ram (RCD) [M2 Max] (RCD) Ram

I'm leaving it here while slowly I leave the room...
Please stick it.
 

mattspace

macrumors 68040
Jun 5, 2013
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I don't really agree with your views on Gurman, but I appreciated the clear and calm way you presented them.

I look at the Apple Car, and Apple AR Glasses, VR/AR Headset rumours, and they all reek of the sort of things people who have no understanding of cars, or VR would make up.

I don't think he invents stuff out of thin air, and I do think he has some sort of information provider. As a tech blogger/journalist, he is probably guilty of being active in the echo chamber where everyone circulates and rewrites each other's news.

Anything he hears from people at Apple is likely to be internal security plants for leak sourcing, not actual products.

To me, Gruber is a bit of a different animal. In the very early days, he tried to do some sort of sanctioned leaking, but that is more or less over since... forever. Today he is an analyst, for better or worse. You can like him or not, but my feeling is he is pretty appreciated among his followers. He is rather uncontroversial and un-confrontational and takes it upon himself to "makes sense out of things" within his area of interest—mainly large perspective Apple. You are right in that his "value" lies within commenting on Apple-related events.

The biggest event of his year, WWDC chats is entirely based on his access. He's very much a lap dog - he doesn't talk leaks, and he doesn't criticise the company or the strategy, and he gets executives on his show.

Accidental Tech Podcast used to get Apple executives on their shows, but eventually Marco started publicly proclaiming that Tim Cook needed to be sacked, and now Apple executives don't appear on ATP.

I think Apple has, on rare occasions, gone via trusted sources to spread information early (I reserve 'leaks' for unintentionally spreading information). But that has not been via Gurman or the likes of him.

Yes, Rene Ritchie was given the official word to distribute that the eGPU Display wasn't happening. And surprise, surprise, Rene Ritchie being a good boy, got his job at Apple.
 
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AndreeOnline

macrumors 6502a
Aug 15, 2014
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Same as Kuo, Proser, and me.
There you have it. There are a number of individuals who have access to non-public information. If you are one of them, and you are willing to share: great.
Do you have actual information on the new Mac Pro? Was your info on the 6.1 a one-off thing (I'm not belittling that in any way, if that is the case)?

I'm guessing Gurman and Kuo have some sort of formalized relationship with their sources. They are in this as a business and rely on whatever they are getting for their newsletters. I don't think Gurman is applying any kind of technological insight in his rumors, and he doesn't have to. My guess is that he gets bits and pieces of information and once it reaches a tipping point, he publishes.

It's quite possible that all of the mentioned leakers are subject to sources drying up or quitting. They may or may not find new ones.

When it comes to your own speculations: aren't they just that? Your vision of what Apple should do? Aren't you looking in the rearview as much as the others, when you are referencing the 2019 Mac Pro's abilities when it comes to RAM and so on?

I believe that the 8.1 Mac Pro will be the Mac Pro "reimagined". I'm open to all sorts of things—by necessity since I don't have any information—but I don't think Apple would blink twice before launching an AS Mac Pro, based on the strength of that architecture. In fact, I think this is the most likely outcome, but perhaps not the one I'm hoping for.

IF they are going for a "Mac Studio with PCIe slots", it would have been cool to get a refresh of the Intel Mac Pro for one more generation, with traditional GPUs and everything.
 
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Mago

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I don't think Gurman is applying any kind of technological insight in his rumors
Quite obvious.
Was your info on the 6.1 a one-off thing (I'm not belittling that in any way, if that is the case)?
I'm not in the leak business, I'm at the HPC industry, I develop hardware and software related to HPC applications, I loved to work from the trashcan the. I had friends with insights at its Texas manufacture.

and he doesn't have to. My guess is that he gets bits and
If you writes (and speculate) about pharmacological products, by law in many countries you may go to jail if you don't have any background supporting your editorial, I i wrote about planes at least I had to understand newton laws, not the case here, Gurman IMHO even lack formal Journalism degree just enjoy a bunch of friends and guys like you feeling empathy with him and apologizing him when he trashed.
When it comes to your own speculations: aren't they just that? Your vision of what Apple should do? Aren't you looking in the rearview as much as the others, when you are referencing the 2019 Mac Pro's abilities when it comes to RAM and so on?
Yes I'm speculating what's apple will do with a bunch of PCIe5 slots and a bunch of RCDs, you caught me.

What I look at the rearview are the typical Mac Pro workflows, that typical workflows updated as today industry trends can't be addressed by just two "stacked" Mac Studio , as neither will provide you 4TB of ram or the gpu compute power a single AMD MI100 (you can install two at the 7,1).

Sorry for Gurman, he needs to read a lot about AMBA, CXL and relates base technologies.
 

majus

Contributor
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For those who recently asked about Mark Gurman's qualifications: courtesy, Linked In

Education
University of Michigan School of Information

Bachelor of Science, School of Information — 2012 - 2016

Major in Information, Minor in Entrepreneurship, Concentrations in User Experience Design, Marketing, and Sales.

Experience
Apple and Consumer Tech/Hardware Coverage
Bloomberg LP

Jul 2016 - Present — 6 yrs 8 mos — San Francisco Bay Area

Breaking news on Apple, Amazon, Google, Facebook and all major consumer technology companies. Appears on Bloomberg TV, radio, magazine and podcasts.

Senior Editor
9to5Mac

Dec 2009 - May 2016 — 6 yrs 6

Mark is regarded as one of the go-to reporters for all Apple-related matters, one of Wired‘s top 16 people to follow in technology, and one of TIME Magazine‘s top 25 bloggers of 2013. Mark has also been profiled by CNN Fortune, NPR, the LA Times, LA Weekly, the Huffington Post, Business Insider, Columbia Journalism Review, Marketplace, Haaretz, and USA Today. Mark was also recently named to the 2015 Forbes 30 under 30 List.

Mark kicked off his writing career at the end of 2009, and he had his first significant break in 2011 with a story detailing Siri. Since then, Mark has become known for leading the reporting regarding many of the Apple products and initiatives introduced this decade. In 2012, Mark published the first photos of the iPhone 5, broke the news about Apple’s switch to an in-house Maps apps, and revealed the Retina MacBook Pro.

In 2013, Mark published the first photos of the iPad Air, provided the first details about Jony Ive’s end-to-end iOS 7 update, provided information about OS X Mavericks, and detailed Apple’s work on the Apple Watch. In 2014, Mark revealed the Health app for iOS 8/Apple Watch, OS X Yosemite, and details about the iPhone 6. Mark began 2015 by detailing Apple’s then yet-to-be-released 12-inch MacBook. He has continued the year by reporting on several details about iOS 9, the iPhone 6s, iPad Pro, and the Apple TV 4.
 
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prefuse07

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Show me where and I'll revise it. 👍🏻

In the "...What If" thread, were you not on your high horse, telling folks that they shouldn't even post on here if they will not 100% swallow and accept everything that apple says as religion?

Were you not questioning why folks even come here to vent, and that they should only come here to praise apple as you do?

Is that not the same as imposing your world view onto others?
 

AndreeOnline

macrumors 6502a
Aug 15, 2014
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In the "...What If" thread, were you not on your high horse, telling folks that they shouldn't even post on here if they will not 100% swallow and accept everything that apple says as religion?

Were you not questioning why folks even come here to vent, and that they should only come here to praise apple as you do?

Is that not the same as imposing your world view onto others?
You are liberal in your paraphrasing, but no—that is not what I mean.

There is a very large distinction between addressing someone unspecific as in "why would anyone..." and directly targeting someone with 'you' in a direct conversation. The exception is when there are direct quotes involved or discussions around what has been already said in the thread.

It becomes an instant stumble if a poster more or less tells someone else what THIS OTHER person will say or feel in the future.

So no, just arguing or reasoning—however convincing it might be, and however much you might buy into it—is not imposing it on you. You can still come up with your own arguments against, if you are so inclined.

If you CAN find an actual case when I put words in someone else's mouth, please let me know as I would very much like to correct it. Above, Mago told ME how I felt about Gurman and that I apologized for him.
 

Mago

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University of Michigan School of Information
Bachelor of Science, School of Information — 2012 - 2016

Major in Information, Minor in Entrepreneurship, Concentrations in User Experience Design, Marketing, and Sales.
No Hardware R&D background (no surprise), just 8yr since degre? And not even a journalist, only minor in marketing, no surprise either.

Thanks.
 

ZombiePhysicist

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May 22, 2014
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Show me where and I'll revise it. 👍🏻
Oh how about this old chestnut where you dictate how people should talk and express themselves, quite literally:

1675983697850.png


And apparently no other form or expression would be appropriate
1675983825780.png


The big difference is I'm fine with you having your own world view and not liking those that do not comply. You're entitled to that. I'm also fine that you do not extend the same courtesy to others. Different strokes for different folks.
 
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Mago

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The GPU issue:

ASi m2 max GPU is rated at 13.6 TFlop fp32. X4 it tops 54.4 Tflop. Expected at 300-400W

AMD instinct mi200 (not to name mi300 which is server only custom form factor) 90 Tflop fp32 @500W (exclude CPU).

The Mac Pro 7,1 theoretically could hold 2 of these, each near double ASi GPU.

There are things beyond my knowledge and the information I've available, but nothing prevents macOS Metal 3.0 to hold mixed GPUs even Metal has provisions to support multiple GPU vendors as using intermediate binaries .air which live compile into native binary code, from software side a metal binary sees aa same thing an ASi iGpu or an Radeon one. Both use the same .air binary which compiles at runtime into GPU native binaries.

Out of my knowledge/awareness: the PCIe DMA issues,, solved?

Aa side note Nvidia upcoming rtx4090Ti (rtx ADA) clocks 100tf fp32, and Radeon XTX 7900 is 75tf pfew at 400W (oc)
 
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mattspace

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The GPU issue:

...

Aa side note Nvidia upcoming rtx4090Ti (rtx ADA) clocks 100tf fp32, and Radeon XTX 7900 is 75tf pfew at 400W (oc)

And this is where my skepticism that Gurman has realistic leaks about Apple doing a "high spec" VR headset come from - the highest end headsets, the ones you're spending USD$5-6k on, from companies who supply for simulation to militaries and aviation training (flight sim nerds), are waaaaay above the capabilities of a single 4090 in terms of resolution, frame rate, and colour depth demands. The consistent view of them is that the current cutting edge of headsets is still above the current cutting edge of GPUs, and headsets are going to continue raising that bar for at least the next decade.

Apple does not have a GPU to feed a high resolution headset.

Apple is not going to have an AS GPU to feed a high resolution headset.

There's an evolutionary war going on between GPUs and headsets, making fast predators & prey, and Apple is off making ground parrots in their technological New Zealand.
 
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singhs.apps

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Oct 27, 2016
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There's an evolutionary war going on between GPUs and headsets, making fast predators & prey, and Apple is off making ground parrots in their technological New Zealand.
Ground parrots. Technological New Zealand….Those be new ones 😂 …though it seems they are trying bring them back again (Dodos)

Jokes apart, I agree. Just when you thought GPUs from the green team are getting OP, in come new form factors throwing curve balls.

The more I look around the tech space today…the more it looks like the 90s all over again… disruptive.
 
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prefuse07

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Ground parrots. Technological New Zealand….Those be new ones 😂 …though it seems they are trying bring them back again (Dodos)

Jokes apart, I agree. Just when you thought GPUs from the green team are getting OP, in come new form factors that throwing curve balls.

The more I look around the tech space today…the more it looks like the 90s all over again… disruptive.

The funny/sad thing is.... it is like the 90's again... Remember when VR was getting big? it was everywhere!.... then it just up and died.... And here we are again
 

singhs.apps

macrumors 6502a
Oct 27, 2016
660
400
The funny/sad thing is.... it is like the 90's again... Remember when VR was getting big? it was everywhere!.... then it just up and died.... And here we are again
Well.. I hope we won’t go into winter 2.0 again.

But I was talking about the tech space as a whole. New opportunities, come backs, fight backs, challenging status quos, Browser+OS wars, rewriting CG apps, going dinosaur overnight (presumably), disruptive takes on existing paradigms and an ongoing tech bubble burst (dot com era), de globalisation (reversing economic paradigms)

We’ll see when the dust settles.
 
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