Adobe Creative Suite 3 (CS3) Pricing and Upgrades

[wildmac]

Wow, great attitude. I've never done secretary work but I wouldn't denigrate it like that.

The problem is that lots of "web developers" out there attempt to integrate Dreamweaver into their CMS or produce pages with DW in that kind of environment which is a nightmare. I've seem it many, many times over.

FYI, I was designing and developing tools that allowed non-technical staff to update content for outlets associated with two of the biggest media companies on the planet so I think I know what I'm talking about. I have no interest in relying on Dreamweaver for how that should work. Anyone assuming the title "web developer" shouldn't either, as far as I'm concerned.

For very large sites with lots of non-static content, Dreamweaver is a bust. End of story. It complicates and already complicated thing. Like I said, it's a fine tool for small-ish sites, but I just don't understand how you'd make something like that work for a large site with its own CMS (although, as I said, I've seen people attempt it on more than one occasion.) It just doesn't work.

Besides, I disagree with earlier comments about DW. Even for casual work, it produces some pretty convoluted code. I just don't see why anyone would want to use it. if you know what you're doing and know how to organize a project, you can hand-write a small site more quickly and more efficiently than with DW.

Good for you. write your own program and sell it.

The right tool for the right job.

The point was I want to enable the secretary to change the phone # on the page and NOT call me to do it. Dreamweaver/Contribute works great for that.

Also, I use DW as my hand-coding tool as I can use it to create templates, and users can ad pages based on those templates. You don't HAVE to let DW generate the code.. I still code by hand, I just do it in DW.

Sure, if you use DW's visual layout tools, the code is a mess. But I don't use those tools.

DW is also great for when you are handing off a site to a client so you can build it with templates, they can edit, and you can update the templates later.

And ANY tool like DW is a bust for dynamic content. That's what CMS's are for.

 

[mark88]

Makes me laugh seeing the price differences between England and America. I'll have to pay £1264 for Adobe Creative Suite 2 Premium Design (with Flash) here, which is nearly $2,500. I wish your software was that cheap here!

Amazon UK had the prices up this morning, Master collection was over £2k, and it's only $2399........

How do us UK folk go about purchasing software from the US? seems pretty ridiculous for something that you can download over the internet, all we are buying is the serial numbers.

VAT + Customs for a serial number, no thanks!

 

[CoreWeb]

I'm sure I'm just going to be flamebait by saying this, but I could never in my wildest dreams afford this. The bundle I'd want cost more than my whole Mac, and several times what I make in a month... I'd have to max out a whole year's worth of student loans to buy it... I'd have to not eat for 3/4 of the year... so I'm really not going to feel bad about downloading it illegally. Even if I had the ability to buy it, I wouldn't, for that price. I make no money from it anyhow, I only use it for pranks and fixing the occasional photo and screwing around with my personal website and home movies and making decent PDFs and such. Adobe, you suck for doing this with the price hikes. (And before anyone says that my attitude is the reason that their prices are so high, you're wrong--their prices are so high because people will pay them and they have no serious competition; as I said, I'm not depriving them of any monies because I would have to make $50k a year more than I do now to justify these costs.)

I hate when companies become monopolies. Microsoft, Adobe...

Heck, even Apple is (practically) when it comes to the iPod, only... the iPod is actually kind of cheap (they keep LOWERING the prices, not raising them)

 

[mark88]

No wonder people pirate these things.

Very true!

The pricing is out of control, especially UK pricing. And if you can't get the bundle you want you have to buy another bundle.

The prices of the apps alone are very unattractive, you think 'whats the point buying it alone is for a couple hundred more I get 2 more apps'

 

[GFLPraxis]

I'm sure I'm just going to be flamebait by saying this, but I could never in my wildest dreams afford this. The bundle I'd want cost more than my whole Mac, and several times what I make in a month... I'd have to max out a whole year's worth of student loans to buy it... I'd have to not eat for 3/4 of the year... so I'm really not going to feel bad about downloading it illegally. Even if I had the ability to buy it, I wouldn't, for that price. I make no money from it anyhow, I only use it for pranks and fixing the occasional photo and screwing around with my personal website and home movies and making decent PDFs and such. Adobe, you suck for doing this with the price hikes. (And before anyone says that my attitude is the reason that their prices are so high, you're wrong--their prices are so high because people will pay them and they have no serious competition; as I said, I'm not depriving them of any monies because I would have to make $50k a year more than I do now to justify these costs.)

Woah there; Creative Suite currently costs $1199, but Academic pricing is $399.

Just buy it with student discount.

Let's wait till Adobe unveils student pricing. If it's more than $500, I wouldn't feel bad about pirating it either; and I'm very anti-piracy. (I use it for non-profit work anyway!)


But you know, despite being extremely anti-piracy, Adobe is making me wonder. My current stance is I hate piracy because I feel it takes away money from the developers who put work into the product and that it undermines our economy (companies cannot afford to pay for development if people take the product free), and I will pay for an application deserving.

So far my only exception has been Microsoft products. I paid for Office, but I would never pay for Windows; if it's needed, it's because Microsoft's illegal monopoly is FORCING the user to install it (that's why I borrowed a corporate copy for my MacBook).

But Adobe's insane monopolistic pricing is making me rethink them too. At this point, I'm still on track to buy Creative Suite though (I'm not planning to pirate it), assuming the Academic pricing is reasonable.

 

[NuDarwin]

That's a pain. So I'll have to deactivate and reactivate every time I switch if I use three computers, eh?

Maybe someone'll crack it.

Ugh. They force even the legitamite users to crack their products, not just the pirates.

You shouldn't feel like you are forced to crack a copy of cs3. If it's really important, then you should buy the additional license. or, maybe someone clever can write an automatic activator/deactivator. that'd be cool; if you could pre-program it with all of the computers that you want to run cs3 on, and then with a single click, it would shift around all of your activations.

anyone feel like coding?

 

[wildmac]

I'm sure I'm just going to be flamebait by saying this, but I could never in my wildest dreams afford this. The bundle I'd want cost more than my whole Mac, and several times what I make in a month... I'd have to max out a whole year's worth of student loans to buy it... I'd have to not eat for 3/4 of the year... so I'm really not going to feel bad about downloading it illegally. Even if I had the ability to buy it, I wouldn't, for that price. I make no money from it anyhow, I only use it for pranks and fixing the occasional photo and screwing around with my personal website and home movies and making decent PDFs and such. Adobe, you suck for doing this with the price hikes. (And before anyone says that my attitude is the reason that their prices are so high, you're wrong--their prices are so high because people will pay them and they have no serious competition; as I said, I'm not depriving them of any monies because I would have to make $50k a year more than I do now to justify these costs.)

First of all, you have no pity from me if you choose to steal.

Second, there are edu versions.

Third, it is a pro tool. There are alternatives for the casual user. GIMP, etc.

do you want a corvette for the price of a hundai as well?...

 

[GFLPraxis]

You shouldn't feel like you are forced to crack a copy of cs3. If it's really important, then you should buy the additional license. or, maybe someone clever can write an automatic activator/deactivator. that'd be cool; if you could pre-program it with all of the computers that you want to run cs3 on, and then with a single click, it would shift around all of your activations.

anyone feel like coding?

That would make me happy

 

[wongulous]

First of all, you have no pity from me if you choose to steal.

Second, there are edu versions.

Third, it is a pro tool. There are alternatives for the casual user. GIMP, etc.

do you want a corvette for the price of a hundai as well?...

I wasn't asking for pity--I was only adding my own commentary.

The academic/edu versions will help, and I'll have no problem getting one with loans, though I will gripe about it if it is more than $300. I'm sure that they are still making at least 100-150% profit margins even with academic pricing, if you divide the development/team/office/marketing costs among all of the projected license sales. Now, take a look at how much profit they're probably making from retail price... or even upgrade pricing, which is merely a dent in the cases listed in the table, keeping in mind that upgrade users have already paid for what is at least 75-85% of the codebase in the suite they're re-purchasing. It has new features and interface and stability, I'm sure of it, but not 75% or more new codebase. How ridiculous.

If anything, I'll steal it because I don't believe it is worth the price of a Corvette sports car for what is little more than a Chrysler, and because I disagree with their increasing prices, increasingly-restrictive EULA(s), and because I'm not depriving anyone of any money, property, or income; I wouldn't buy it at retail price even if I had $2500 lying around. I'd have to be using it to make 10 times that amount per year to justify the price. Adobe can have its corporate and professional customers that will begrudgingly, and gradually, be forced to upgrade to CS3 and pay these prices. All they'll get from me is a couple hundred bucks if they come out with decent academic prices.

 

[CoreWeb]

First of all, you have no pity from me if you choose to steal.

Second, there are edu versions.

Third, it is a pro tool. There are alternatives for the casual user. GIMP, etc.

do you want a corvette for the price of a hundai as well?...

It isn't so much the price but the fact that it seems the price is higher... If it was always this way, people wouldn't be complaining. Scratch that, everyone loves complaining.

But what I don't like is the bundles they have. But I think I can survive with the Design Premium bundle.

By the way - I would never pirate it.

 

[NuDarwin]

[already posted]

 

[NuDarwin]

First of all, you have no pity from me if you choose to steal.

Second, there are edu versions.

Third, it is a pro tool. There are alternatives for the casual user. GIMP, etc.

do you want a corvette for the price of a hundai as well?...

I quite agree. I have no sympathy for you if you are complaining about the price of professional software. Because if you are, then either:

A. You are a pro, and will make the money back from buying the software after one job. To most pros who are self employed and must therefore buy their own software, even the $2500 to buy master collection would be tiny compared to their other operating expenses.

B. You are a pro, and cannot afford to buy a copy of CS3. If this the case, then don't worry about it, because I've never heard of anyone losing a client because they use CS2. Besides, most pros are already using some version of cs/photoshop, and upgrade pricing is quite reasonable.

C. You are a poor student. Academic pricing is cheap. The ~$400 you will end up paying is nothing compared to what you will learn from the class you are taking.

D. You are a serious amateur. If you are in this category and cannot afford to buy cs3, then since clearly isn't worth your money, stick with what you've already got or go for elements.

E. You are a "photoshop cowboy" i.e. 12 years old. No offense or anything, but stick to kidpix.

What it all boils down to, is if it is worth your money, you should seriously consider buying it. If it isn't really, then don't complain to the world.

 

[Kwill]

Designers: $400 Standard or $1200 Premium CS3

I've pretty much accepted that I will need to upgrade all my graphics apps to Intel-native versions when the new multi-core Mac Pros are available. I just had no idea how much it would cost.

The Vista-like pricing matrix is quite confusing. To be fair, there is much to consider -- particularly with the Macromedia merger -- which products to bundle, who qualifies for upgrades, cross-grades...

Perhaps Adobe would have done better to take a hint from Apple: Sell one or two packaged bundles. Then give users BTO options.

Nevertheless, it appears that current Creative Suite users can upgrade to CS3 Design Standard for $400 or to CS3 Web Premium for $500.

Preparing graphic design for scientists may push me to the CS3 Premium for $1200. I will be listening closely to the media event to see how files created with Photoshop 3 Extended work with Photoshop 3.

 

[Burai]

Third, it is a pro tool. There are alternatives for the casual user. GIMP, etc.

do you want a corvette for the price of a hundai as well?...

Exactly. These are pro tools and they go for a pro price. Any designer or design firm worth their salt would be able to afford these prices anyway. If they can't, then I'd say that their problems are far more fundamental than needing the latest version of Photoshop.

It genuinely astonishes me that people actually cough up the price of a Photoshop licence for the "work" they do (ie, tidying up holiday photos) when something like Photoshop Elements or Paintshop Pro would be more than sufficient for their home user needs and far better value for money.

 

[aafuss1]

I'm hoping the Australian pricing will be OK.

 

[dcr]

   

 

[CoreWeb]

I quite agree. I have no sympathy for you if you are complaining about the price of professional software. Because if you are, then either:

A. You are a pro, and will make the money back from buying the software after one job. To most pros who are self employed and must therefore buy their own software, even the $2500 to buy master collection would be tiny compared to their other operating expenses.

B. You are a pro, and cannot afford to buy a copy of CS3. If this the case, then don't worry about it, because I've never heard of anyone losing a client because they use CS2. Besides, most pros are already using some version of cs/photoshop, and upgrade pricing is quite reasonable.

C. You are a poor student. Academic pricing is cheap. The ~$400 you will end up paying is nothing compared to what you will learn from the class you are taking.

D. You are a serious amateur. If you are in this category and cannot afford to buy cs3, then since clearly isn't worth your money, stick with what you've already got or go for elements.

E. You are a "photoshop cowboy" i.e. 12 years old. No offense or anything, but stick to kidpix.

What it all boils down to, is if it is worth your money, you should seriously consider buying it. If it isn't really, then don't complain to the world.

Actually, looking at the upgrade table, the upgrade options aren't all that great. But I'll be getting a student discount, probably. Otherwise, it looks like I'll be spending >$1000. (Probably)

And even small businesses aren't willing to drop >$1000 for this kind of program. What about relatively small print/mail shops which need Photoshop for color management, InDesign for opening/refining customer documents, and Acrobat Professional? These won't want to spend >$1000, though they are professionals.

So there are people who will rightly complain. You cannot speak for everyone.

 

[TheBobcat]

I pirate software all the time, I don't have any problems sleeping at night. They gouge their prices because pros will pay it. So the way I see it, by me pirating it, they're not losing a sale since I wouldn't have bought it in the first place.

 

[aafuss1]

Any guess to what the Bangkok/Hong Kong/Moscow street trader prices will be?

I paid about $200 for CS2 from someone in Russia (I can install and apply updates-even though it might be a pirated version).

 

[alexf]

What about GoLive Users?!

As a GoLive user for seven years - and who has legally upgraded with each new version - I am really feeling screwed now.

It is not right that Adobe does not offer any upgrade discount for Dreamweaver CS3 from GoLive users. Why do users of a Macromedia product get to upgrade to an Adobe one (i.e. Freehand to Illustrator), but not users of an Adobe product to a Macromedia one?

If I want to switch from GoLive to Dreamweaver, I will have to pay the surprisingly high retail price of the latter.

This isn't the first time over the years that I have felt screwed by Adobe - and, judging from the comments in this forum, I am definitely not alone.

- A Former Loyal Adobe Customer

 

[CoreWeb]

- A Former Loyal Adobe Customer

Well, as there aren't any other choices, aren't you still going to be a loyal customer?

 

[wildmac]

If anything, I'll steal it because I don't believe it is worth the price of a Corvette sports car for what is little more than a Chrysler, and because I disagree with their increasing prices, increasingly-restrictive EULA(s), and because I'm not depriving anyone of any money, property, or income; I wouldn't buy it at retail price even if I had $2500 lying around. I'd have to be using it to make 10 times that amount per year to justify the price. Adobe can have its corporate and professional customers that will begrudgingly, and gradually, be forced to upgrade to CS3 and pay these prices. All they'll get from me is a couple hundred bucks if they come out with decent academic prices.

No pity.

So you'll steal the Vette because in YOUR OPINION is isn't worth the price they ask for it?.. What kind of twisted logic is that?...

There are alternatives, especially for your stated uses. If you don't like the price, buy something else, or use the freeware tools like GIMP.

 

[volvoben]

I hate to say it, but Adobe really has become a bit of a Microsoft...

But to try to be as sickeningly positive as possible, monopolistic software does mean that you'll never go to a new job and say "ah crap, they don't use Photoshop here, they use Picturegarage!". It's even more than industry standard, it's industry prerequisite. OK, that's sounding negative, I'd better move on...

Hopefully I can get CS3 print standard for $200 like i got CS2 through my girlfriend's edu discount, but I was thinking with so damn many applications that adobe would be better off selling it piece by piece, ie photoshop costs $XXX, dreamweaver costs $XXX, but if you buy 2 you get %XX off the total price. I'm sure it's too complicated a pricing scheme, but the packages are getting aaaaaaaaaaawfully complex *ahemvistaahem*.

I suppose I'm lucky that I can't be so picky, I'm guessing I'll end up with print standard and keep using dreamweaver and flash mx.

A friend who lives in Moscow bought photoshop cs2 (windows) on the street for about US$10 a while back just to play with it. It installed and acted just like the real thing, but with no activation or anything. He thought it may have actually been genuine, but I'm sure it was just cracked very well. Without a major drop in prices (I was thinking if adobe wanted to stomp out piracy by folks who don't want to pirate but who really can't afford it they'd need to price each standard suite around $400) CS will probably remain #2 behind windows on the 'most pirated' list.

 

[wildmac]

As a GoLive user for seven years - and who has legally upgraded with each new version - I am really feeling screwed now.

It is not right that Adobe does not offer any upgrade discount for Dreamweaver CS3 from GoLive users. Why do users of a Macromedia product get to upgrade to an Adobe one (i.e. Freehand to Illustrator), but not users of an Adobe product to a Macromedia one?

If I want to switch from GoLive to Dreamweaver, I will have to pay the surprisingly high retail price of the latter.

This isn't the first time over the years that I have felt screwed by Adobe - and, judging from the comments in this forum, I am definitely not alone.

- A Former Loyal Adobe Customer

As far as I know, they haven't stopped production of GoLive. It's still supposed to be out as a consumer app. It's never been a part of CS, has it?.. so your problem is?...

 

[CoreWeb]

No pity.

So you'll steal the Vette because in YOUR OPINION is isn't worth the price they ask for it?.. What kind of twisted logic is that?...

There are alternatives, especially for your stated uses. If you don't like the price, buy something else, or use the freeware tools like GIMP.

I agree with you, not wildmac, that it shouldn't be stolen. I don't agree that the prices and bundling scheme are proper, however.