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secretk

macrumors 65816
Oct 19, 2018
1,494
1,229
It’s a little nuts how you seem to think Apple owes you a “heads up” on future announcements. They don’t give that to the press, they don’t give that to Wall Street, and they sure as hell don’t give that to forum lurkers.
I am a bit 50/50 on that. I work in software company. Our customers do appreciate if we are open to discuss our product roadmap with them. I can see why a customer would want that and we are Apple's customers. Do I think that Apple would respond - definitely not. It is not how they work. So even if I want that, I know that I would not get it.

On the other hand the lack of visibility (for me) on what comes from them might lead to me buying products from other companies to meet my needs. It is how this business works. No need to be upset with Apple.
 

muzzy996

macrumors 65816
Feb 16, 2018
1,119
1,067
These lack of innovation debates always baffle me. When I take a step back what I see is simply that year over year hardware and software feature enhancements are being made to Apple’s products. There certainly won’t be changes made to please everyone but the bottom line is the new products sell and Apple moves on to develop the next step, making sure to keep their entire ecosystem moving ahead in a direction of their choosing. For a company like that what more could they ask for? Seems to make no difference to the masses how innovative Apple’s being, what seems to matter is whether one will see improvement in upgrading, and that is always a subjective thing.

As somewhat of a power user at times I’ll always wish for more features or different workflows. I think that’s what keeps me engaged in tech to begin with, and that is what I try to embrace whenever I’m disappointed in a new release; “Oh well maybe next time/year..” or “Maybe platform Y can do what I need..” etc.

There’s nothing yet in iOS that will get me to switch from my 2017 iPP 12.9 but I’ll see what the future brings.
 

rui no onna

Contributor
Oct 25, 2013
14,920
13,271
I am a bit 50/50 on that. I work in software company. Our customers do appreciate if we are open to discuss our product roadmap with them. I can see why a customer would want that and we are Apple's customers. Do I think that Apple would respond - definitely not. It is not how they work. So even if I want that, I know that I would not get it.

The thing is WWDC itself is where they announce/discuss the roadmap (3 months ahead of release). This is like wanting Apple to leak WWDC contents before the event itself.
 

secretk

macrumors 65816
Oct 19, 2018
1,494
1,229
The thing is WWDC itself is where they announce/discuss the roadmap (3 months ahead of release). This is like wanting Apple to leak WWDC contents before the event itself.
I see your point. This is true - WWDC is the way for Apple to announce new capabilities to Developers and consumers 3 months in advance.

However IMO announcing your roadmap like that is not very agile. I as a former Developer would not be motivated to work like that. I would be interested in having far more open communication and regular checkpoints like every 2 months. Or there is the other possibility where the communication is like that but taking advantage of whatever is offered happens one year later.

As a consumer I do not want to wait 9 months to see something of what they plan to do. Our customers do not want this either. Mind you, we deliver new versions every 7 weeks with new features and our customers want us to be even more agile. So yeah the way currently is working for me is rather old fashioned way and too waterfally for me. But that's me. Most people are so not like me and that's what counts.
 
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rovex

macrumors 65816
Feb 22, 2011
1,246
186
It's a very expensive machine to not even support pro apps. Funny as well you'd think the hardware side of things would be harder to implement than allowing FCP in all its glory on an M1 iPad
 

rkuo

macrumors 65816
Sep 25, 2010
1,308
955
I agree with your assessment. I think people want the iPad Pro to be a touch screen Mac so badly that they haven't accepted it to be what it is: the best tablet, period. If you are able to accept the iPP for what it is, then, like myself, you see iPadOS 15 as upgrades that make you appreciate your device that much more. It seems that far too many people are trying to make the iPad fit their own lifestyle usage, and that's where so many disappointments are occurring. I don't take a motorcycle when I need a pickup truck.

At first, iPadOS was a subpar attempt on Apple to differentiate it from iOS, but I now truly see iPadOS as its own thing and love what they're doing. I've stopped blaming Apple a long time ago for the iPad and now it's just up to the third party developers to get on track with what the iPad can do.
You're damn right I'm trying to make it fit my lifestyle usage. I'd rather just carry the iPad in my bag when I'm out for the day or when I have to travel. That means I need macOS or something equivalent to it. Let it run in a hypervisor app or something. I'm not asking for iPadOS to change ... I'd still use it the majority of the time.
 

rui no onna

Contributor
Oct 25, 2013
14,920
13,271
It's a very expensive machine to not even support pro apps. Funny as well you'd think the hardware side of things would be harder to implement than allowing FCP in all its glory on an M1 iPad

Why would the hardware be more difficult? The Mini-LED display is the only big change. Otherwise, iPads have been on ARM since the beginning. Probably has a similar layout to the previous gen, too.
 

rkuo

macrumors 65816
Sep 25, 2010
1,308
955
What exactly are you looking for with multitasking?

While using iPadOS 15… I like the new multitasking features, shelf for windows… ability to make App Pairing in the App Switcher, um.. the 3 dot menu at the top of each apps. But my only issue.. which I hope they address for iPadOS 16, give users the ability to not be dependent on an app in fullscreen in order to use SlideOver.

For example… let SlideOver stand on its own. Although it might seem odd to have a small window open without seeing anything else. I just rather have that option. I think SlideOver and SplitView are here to stay, it’s all about trying to see how Apple can improve over those features.
Just compare to any modern windowing system (aka macOS, Windows).

1. Open more than 2 (!!!) windows at once and easily switch between all of them
2. No real risk of app quitting in the background (mobile single app at a time iOS model isn't appropriate for desktops)
3. All apps can run in the background doing work (keeping sessions open, playing audio, etc)
4. Real filesystem to properly stage documents and downloads between apps.

And of course we're not even scratching the surface.
 

MBAir2010

macrumors 604
May 30, 2018
6,975
6,354
there
"iPad enables you to do so much, so easily. iPadOS 15 takes this versatility further, making it easier to get things done, find and organize information, and make iPad even more capable"

who writes this vague garbage for that  website?

sound like something TC would say infront of a mirror, flossing his eye brows
 

Unregistered 4U

macrumors G4
Jul 22, 2002
10,612
8,636
What exactly are you looking for with multitasking?

While using iPadOS 15… I like the new multitasking features, shelf for windows… ability to make App Pairing in the App Switcher, um.. the 3 dot menu at the top of each apps. But my only issue.. which I hope they address for iPadOS 16, give users the ability to not be dependent on an app in fullscreen in order to use SlideOver.

For example… let SlideOver stand on its own. Although it might seem odd to have a small window open without seeing anything else. I just rather have that option. I think SlideOver and SplitView are here to stay, it’s all about trying to see how Apple can improve over those features.
Some folks will never be able to use it successfully, just like some folks never got used to the mouse. For those that are still able to learn new things, like the millions buying iPads, it’ll just be one more addition to the things they know how to do. To those unable to get it, well, Apple DOES still make Macs for them. Though, I’d imagine in 30 years or so, Apple won’t be selling too many more of those.
 

rui no onna

Contributor
Oct 25, 2013
14,920
13,271
What exactly are you looking for with multitasking?

While using iPadOS 15… I like the new multitasking features, shelf for windows… ability to make App Pairing in the App Switcher, um.. the 3 dot menu at the top of each apps. But my only issue.. which I hope they address for iPadOS 16, give users the ability to not be dependent on an app in fullscreen in order to use SlideOver.

For example… let SlideOver stand on its own. Although it might seem odd to have a small window open without seeing anything else. I just rather have that option. I think SlideOver and SplitView are here to stay, it’s all about trying to see how Apple can improve over those features.

Submit feedback now and maybe we can still get it on iPadOS 15. ;)
 

rui no onna

Contributor
Oct 25, 2013
14,920
13,271
And for a good reason - you need to be a geek to work Linux out. Lots of people are still quite bewildered by Windows too, if we go beyond basic functions. I personally quite like Linux, but still prefer macOS.

If someone sets up all the hardware and software for you and all you really need is LibreOffice, Firefox, VLC, etc. for daily use, Linux can be OK. The problem is when you need to do the more intermediate stuff or run into hardware incompatibilities.

Mind, I know a lot of people who never even bothered to upgrade their old Windows PCs and have just been getting by with their smartphones or iPads for home use. I know a lot of our employees bought new computers for WFH.
 
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Rogifan

macrumors Penryn
Nov 14, 2011
24,735
32,201
I don't the lack of pro apps is compliancy - I mean the amount of engineering and work to put the M1 and mini-led into the IPP shows they're really working hard to improve the iPad.

I think too many people are getting worked up because Apple didn't announce the pro apps this week. I love the idea that they split off iPadOS off on its own, and now we're starting to see the fruits of the split, i.e., better multi-tasking. Pro apps will come, just not today.
Right and I think everyone would agree iPad Pro hardware is way ahead of iPadOS. An M1 iPad Pro will most likely be able to handle whatever software changes/pro apps thrown at it for many years to come.
 
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Digitalguy

macrumors 601
Apr 15, 2019
4,655
4,492
So sad to see Rene Ritchie has to be in the clickbait business to make his YouTube venture successful.
I had put I like on the video because at the beginning he made some very good points... but then I removed it when he started denying cannibalization, saying that Apple is not afraid of cannibalizing their products, they just feel the iPad is the iPad and the Mac is the Mac... Total bs....
Apple's competitor is not the Surface pro, that battle was won years ago...
As another youtuber said this morning, the true iPad competitor is the Mac and Apple showed very clearly that they have no intention of having you buy only one device, but want you to have both...
 

duffman9000

macrumors 68020
Sep 7, 2003
2,331
8,089
Deep in the Depths of CA
When/where did Apple promise apps fully utilizing M1 iPad Pro? They never did.

Also, how do you know the extra RAM won't be used in the future? Maybe this will come with an update. Maybe next year, who knows.

Rule #1: don't buy anything based on assumptions.


Would have been nice to see a full macOS running on the iPad when docked and iPadOS when undocked. Chances where slim, in the end it didn't happen.

Would have been nice to see docking station / full monitor support, in the end it didn't happen.

It doesn't mean it won't happen in the future. Only time will tell. Again, don't buy things based on assumptions.

I made that easier for everyone to read because that is the truth.
 

Unregistered 4U

macrumors G4
Jul 22, 2002
10,612
8,636
saying that Apple is not afraid of cannibalizing their products, they just feel the iPad is the iPad and the Mac is the Mac... Total bs....
Eh, I think that’s right, though. Month after month, year after year, folks that would have NEEDED to buy a Mac have looked at their needs, looked at what’s available and have chosen iPad. Right now, today, Apple is cannibalizing the Mac with the iPad.

Are there folks that still want Macs and will never be comfortable with iPads, ABSOLUTELY! Will most of those folks still be purchasing macs in 40 years? I doubt it. Apple will keep making Macs for those who feel they need them until sales of them mysteriously start dropping off for some unknown reason.
 

DMG35

Contributor
May 27, 2021
2,527
8,170
Your example shows just how emphatically loyal and possibly guilable Apple's customers are. Research in Motion (BlackBerry) customers saw a lack of innovation going on and they hit the company where it hurts, not buying their products. The company failed to innovate, sales dropped, the product ceased. In the real world that is how it happens but Apple seem to be imune to this real world issue because even when people on forums like this complain of the lack of innovation going on with certain Apple products, people still purchase those products.

As i said before, if the above happens to any other company, production ceases or ends up out of business because customers do not purchase the products but with Apple, even when they are not innovating, people still purchase their products. It's something that has baffled experts for years. Why do people stop buying products when a company fails to innovate but when Apple does exactly the same thing, people still purchase the product!!!
Yeah that's not really the point. People stopped buying BlackBerry phones because something better came along. Something could come along better in the future that is better than something Apple offers. It doesn't look that way but its possible. No one remains on top forever. I love Apple products and hope they do, but its possible that something better could come along down the road that could pull people away from them.
 
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muzzy996

macrumors 65816
Feb 16, 2018
1,119
1,067
Right and I think everyone would agree iPad Pro hardware is way ahead of iPadOS. An M1 iPad Pro will most likely be able to handle whatever software changes/pro apps thrown at it for many years to come.
Yup it's a damned shame how powerful the M1 iPad Pros are and how far ahead of iPadOS the hardware is. Full on hardware flex right now. Would have been nice to have seen Apple take the first step in pushing more powerful applications to the newer iPPs but sadly not the case yet.
 

Ludatyk

macrumors 603
May 27, 2012
5,967
5,139
Texas
I had put I like on the video because at the beginning he made some very good points... but then I removed it when he started denying cannibalization, saying that Apple is not afraid of cannibalizing their products, they just feel the iPad is the iPad and the Mac is the Mac... Total bs....
Thanks for saving me a click. Rene can provide useful information... but Apple definitely is afraid to cannibalize their products. There's no point in denying the obvious truth... any company that sells hardware does not want to cannibalize their own products.

Apple wants to sell consumers on having both a Mac and iPad when there is a case can be made that the iPad can be so much more... when clearly it's being held back. However, Apple have every right to continue to market having both a Mac and iPad... when they work so well together.
 
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jqc

macrumors 6502
Jun 30, 2007
394
204
Yeah that's not really the point. People stopped buying BlackBerry phones because something better came along. Something could come along better in the future that is better than something Apple offers. It doesn't look that way but its possible. No one remains on top forever. I love Apple products and hope they do, but its possible that something better could come along down the road that could pull people away from them.
I would welcome this as it would spur more innovation and competition, or just making the iPad what it easily could be - but I don’t see it happening. Apple‘ fully integrated software and hardware report seems to be too a strong moat, who even comes close?
 

Abazigal

Contributor
Jul 18, 2011
20,395
23,899
Singapore
Thanks for saving me a click. Rene can provide useful information... but Apple definitely is afraid to cannibalize their products. There's no point in denying the obvious truth... any company that sells hardware does not want to cannibalize their own products.
Rather than arguing that Apple does not want the iPad to cannibalise the Mac, can it not be argued that Apple simply doesn't think that macOS makes sense on the iPad?

What I currently like about the iPad is that it is nothing like my iMac or MBA. Sure, there are some tasks that overlap, but for most part, each excels in its own area, and that's what I appreciate. When I am at home working on test papers and spreadsheets, I appreciate the 27" display of my iMac. When I am in the classroom, I am thankful for the ease of use and fluidity of iOS (which makes it extremely easy to handle on the go), the long battery life, and the 4g connectivity. I like being able to scan a document with scanner pro, then pass it along to notability without having to deal with a file manager.

I am using an iPad for work (and have been using it since 2012) precisely because it runs iOS, not macOS. Along the way, I find I am more comfortable working with iOS than macOS now. For the work I do, I for one do not want the heaviness of a legacy desktop OS weighing me down. The presence of the Mac is precisely what allows the iPad to be as light as it is - the iPad doesn't have to be able to perform certain niche tasks like terminal access because that's what the Mac is there for.

Having macOS on the iPad would very likely be a step back in usability for me. I have no desire for the two to ever converge, much less on the iPad.
 
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