People like cheap things. If they have a choice they will buy something less expensive even if the more expensive alternative is 50% better. They don't recognise the value.
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Age old debate, seriously why do people hate macs/apple?
- Thread starter GKDAIR
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Why does everybody assume that Mac users are arrogant and snobbish? I've seen good people prefer using a Mac over a PC and they were the most generous, kind and caring people ever! Where did this arrogance myth come from?
Start with the ones with Iphone cases that have a cut-out to show the Apple logo, and finish with the ones complaining that the Apple logo on the new MacBook Pro doesn't light up.
Maybe because Apple charges premium on inferior specs at the same price? could have something to do with it... People not understanding its not like a PC where pay for better specs?
Weather you like it or not, its still gets everyone's attention in the Mac community.
The ball just keeps on rolling in one direction.
They see it i would guess like anything,, u pay more money for something, a better car, a better house etc.. and u get more... BUT not with Apple. it its more, but not much more than u would expect,,, and that stands out.
Weather you like it or not, its still gets everyone's attention in the Mac community.
The ball just keeps on rolling in one direction.
They see it i would guess like anything,, u pay more money for something, a better car, a better house etc.. and u get more... BUT not with Apple. it its more, but not much more than u would expect,,, and that stands out.
Even on a pc more money does not get better specs, I've seen very expensive I3s. I'd rather have an i7 processor.
As for the price/value equation, that's an individual decision.
Again his myth?
First, nobody builds computers to the Apple spec. NOBODY.
Second, I’ve bough an iMac 5K, if I had bought it part by part, it would be much more expensive, and I would have to build it on my own, service it on my own if needed, and the second hand value would be ridiculous compared to what these machines typically sell for.
Start with the ones with Iphone cases that have a cut-out to show the Apple logo, and finish with the ones complaining that the Apple logo on the new MacBook Pro doesn't light up.
I know this is an old thread, and an old post for that matter, but this is spot-on.
Additionally, I heartily disagree that they cost more than what you get for your money - as mentioned in other posts... perhaps this was true in the days of yore, but certainly not for the last decade+ - of course that's only my opinion
(I know this is a very old thread but I can't help myself...)
I still see Apple/Mac hate and or disgust on the internet quite a bit. When I was in my 20s I took it personally but now I laugh and move on.
I play a Windows only game on steam in which a big part is designing things and showing them off on steam workshop. Being Win only and fairly heavy in the fx department I figured very few Mac users play this game. But just for kicks I built a giant 27" iMac and put it in the workshop. First comment I get is "Gross its an Apple". I LOLed so hard. Might have been a kid or something but that's a first to me that someone used the word gross to define a computer.
One thing I do notice a lot is that when PC folks get together many like to spec brag, which I find odd. "My computer has blah blah i7, blah blah nvidia 1080 blah blah, water cooled blah blah, and I only paid $blah blah..." They say it as if they designed and made each part themselves and want to show it off their baby or something. I understand listing specs online when you need to see if your comp can handle X game/app or if purchasing something faster will be worth the money, but why brag to strangers on the net? What does that accomplish?
I still see Apple/Mac hate and or disgust on the internet quite a bit. When I was in my 20s I took it personally but now I laugh and move on.
I play a Windows only game on steam in which a big part is designing things and showing them off on steam workshop. Being Win only and fairly heavy in the fx department I figured very few Mac users play this game. But just for kicks I built a giant 27" iMac and put it in the workshop. First comment I get is "Gross its an Apple". I LOLed so hard. Might have been a kid or something but that's a first to me that someone used the word gross to define a computer.
One thing I do notice a lot is that when PC folks get together many like to spec brag, which I find odd. "My computer has blah blah i7, blah blah nvidia 1080 blah blah, water cooled blah blah, and I only paid $blah blah..." They say it as if they designed and made each part themselves and want to show it off their baby or something. I understand listing specs online when you need to see if your comp can handle X game/app or if purchasing something faster will be worth the money, but why brag to strangers on the net? What does that accomplish?
This!
They even said “I made a computer”
Which is ridiculous. But for them, it’s like an achievement, because it’s one level down from buying a ready to use PC.
I bough an iMac, and I plugged the power cable from the power outlet to the computer, it came unassembled, does it count? Did I make the computer?
I'm sorry, but if you can call a computer that just needs the power cord plugged-in "un-assembled," and actually compare it to the process one goes through to put together a custom Windows PC (which since the system did not exist until the components were put together, can be said to have been "made",) then you are part of the problem...
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I'm sorry, but if you can call a computer that just needs the power cord plugged-in "un-assembled," and actually compare it to the process one goes through to put together a custom unit, then you are part of the problem...
Gonna have to agree with this. I hate Windows. Hate it. Will never use a PC. But putting together a computer is a hobby in itself and there's no comparison between plugging in an iMac and building a custom desktop.
That said, I also agree that PC users, particularly gamers, are obsessed with specs, but specs matter when you're into gaming! I'm not, so it means little to me. They're different computers for different people and the "debate" is pointless.
I am OS-agnostic myself, but I do have to agree with you on the PC Gamers - especially those that call themselves the "PC Gamer Master Race*.
*Master Race?!? Do they still teach WW2 history in schools anymore???
I'm sorry, but if you can call a computer that just needs the power cord plugged-in "un-assembled," and actually compare it to the process one goes through to put together a custom Windows PC (which since the system did not exist until the components were put together, can be said to have been "made",) then you are part of the problem...
My argument is a reductio ad absurdum.
It's as absurd to say that you "made a computer" by buying packaged components and sticking them together, as saying that you "made a computer" because you connected a cable to an appliance.
Obviously, in both cases, you haven't made a computer. You just assembled parts of a computer.
I know people that hate Apple computers because everyone says they are 'hard to use', and refuse to find out for themselves.
Because 1) the Apple Tax & 2) Apple Fanboys who will win every argument by any means
You hit the nail on the head.
The apple tax is real and one I struggle at personally, and I know others unwilling to pay it. I hear too many times why buy that expensive product (mac/iPhone/iPad/etc) when their less expensive one (be it a phone, computer, or tablet) works fine for them for a fraction of the price.
Too many apple fans are just plain obnoxious, I find though that people who hate macs/apple point out how insufferable apple fans are and how annoying they can be. Tbh, I'm turned off by it as well. For some Apple can do no wrong and non-apple can do no right and that sort of blind following is just distasteful to me.
No, it's not.
Eg. the machine I have right now:
iMac 5K = $1800
Buying in parts
27" 5K LG monitor (the cheapest 5K monitor) = $1300
$500 left
Intel i5-7500 = $200
Radeon RX 570 = $200
$100 left
Are you buying the HD-SSD, RAM, motherboard with thunderbolt ports, case, power supply, mouse, keyboard, webacam, Operating System license, everything for $100?
Do you know how much a Windows 10 OEM license costs?
Does your time has no price? Doesn't it count that you can just go to an Apple store and they'll out the problem for you, and fix it?
For much more people, Apple can do no right.
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yes it is
Dell XPS 15" $2,000
4k Display
i7-7700HQ (45W TDP quad core processor).
512GB SSD
More ports
Upgradable memory
Upgradable storage
Upgradeable/replaceable battery
GeForce® GTX 1050 with 4GB GDDR5
15" MBP 2800
512GB of proprietary SSD storage
16GB of ram soldered onto the logic board
AMD 560 with 4GB of ram
The dell has more features, more options to upgrade, more ports, a better display and yet costs 800 dollars less then the the MBP. That definitely sounds like an apple tax to me.
Does the dell do 10 hours on a charge?
Has an OLED screen?
TouchID?
Full metal body construction?
Apple's Keyboard and Trackpad?
The thickness and the build quality of the MBP?
Thunderbolt 3.0 ports?
500 nit display?
How fast is the SSD compared to Apple's?
Also, being "upgradable" doesn't cost money, it's just sloppy work, and last time I checked, the battery isn't replaceable.
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Nope and thankfully it doesn't have that gimmicky touchbar.
yes
The keyboard is better because it doesn't fail as much as the Apple's butterfly keyboard - just check out the MBP forum here, many, many people have had issues
Apple's trackpad is the best in the industry, and the Dell is not at the same level.
Very thin and yes very good quality
MBP:
The dimensions appear to be extremely close.
The Dell screen is a higher resolution 4k (Apple is not), Uses a IGZO IPS panel. Does the MBP panel uses OLED? I know the touchbar is, but I don't think the display panel is. the dell is only 350nits
It has more - TB3/USB-C, USB-3, SD card slot, HDMI, DisplayPort. With the MBP you only get TB3/USB-C
Again, There may be some things that are better with the MBP, but by and large you get more for less with the Dell over the MBP.
And less for less.
The big thing that people neglect in these jihads is the support and service. I used to sell Dell stuff commercially, and their support is abysmal! I had Dell once sell me the parts to a kit to upgrade a server, and then try to sell me the kit because some parts weren't available. That was after getting pin-ponged all over Texas and the Middle East for nearly a week for help getting part numbers and they gave me the wrong numbers!
Dell's support is third-world, or possibly second-world at best. I have had Apple replace refurbished products with new out of the box equipment THREE TIMES, while one client got four motherboards from Dell that were DOA, in a row!
And usually Apple stuff 'just works'. So much of Windows is 'plug and pray', and each upgrade makes it harder to do the next one, while I am using an 'Early 2009' Mac Pro to type this response. Try that with an 8 year-old Dell. Heck, even with an HP, I upgraded Windows on it and couldn't get the sound, the built-in NIC, or the built-in modem to work.
Apple isn't what it used to be, but it's not a Dell (yet). But now, being retired, I feel the Apple Tax harder than ever, but I feel that we get better support and treatment than from Dell, and the other PC companies. And I DO have several PCs and a Sun server still in the house. One HP system blew the video after a Windows update. Still trying to recover that one.
And on the port issue, I emailed the Great All Powerful Steve Jobs on that topic, and got silence. They DO need to add more ports. Definitely...
You are exactly the perfect example
It is why PC OEM's need to sell "more" for cheaper, which they can't, so they resort to shennanigans.
- TouchBar is not a gimmick, and it doesn't matter. The MacBook Pro has an OLED screen, and that costs money, the DELL, doesn't.
- If we are going to compare value ("gimmicky"), then the MBP always wins, because I can say that macOS is worth $50,000. You can't argue with that.
- The TouchID is necessary to compare apples to apples, the DELL doesn't have it, it costs money to put there, yet a $100 Android phone from China, can have a similar sensor.
- The DELL is not fully metal, you just quoted a sales pitch, that doesn't say it's metal, it's plastic, ugly black plastic:
Sorry, it's not aluminium or any other metal. It's a cheaper material, it won't last as much.- You cannot trust DELL's dimensions, they lie, on their site (link), they say it has a 5K display (5120x2880), while it only has a 4K display. So, while I'm not saying that DELL is lying, I would only trust a side-by-side comparison
Blatant lie, what would happen if Apple did this?
- Here
Sorry, I'm going to git it to you, because:
1: Where is the DellRumors equivalent? No, there isn't, so it's Apple vs ???
2: Anonymous complaints, could be any OEM faking complaints, I'm not saying it is DELL or anyone, but it wouldn't be the first time, if true
3: Actually Apple is the most reliable brand of computers, while DELL is one of the worst, at 2.1x worse reliability, according to ConsumerReports scientific studies:
EXTRA: I'm extremely disappointed to see that people asking here for help is being used as a fuel to attack us. But it's the truth, and MR is known for that (e.g. bendgate, which only a small number of people had problems vs the 100's of millions of units sold, yet, the first to report the case was MR, and the media did what the media does).
Finally, Apple version is newer and more expensive, so either we are talking about the "apple tax", or I could switch to to talking about how much better are Apple Stores, or something like that.
- Nobody said the MBP pannel is OLED, it's an IGZO IPS, the same as DELL, however, the DELL wins in resolution, the MBP wins in almost everything else, according to Notebookcheck:
- You cannot trust DELL's dimensions, they lie, on their site (link), they say it has a 5K display (5120x2880), while it only has a 4K display. So, while I'm not saying that DELL is lying, I would only trust a side-by-side comparison
- More ports doesn't mean better, it means more ports. USB-C ports are universal, and the future, with Thunderbolt 3.0, the MacBook Pro can attach an external GPU, an external battery pack (surpassing the maximum battery capacity allowed in planes), a 5K monitor at 60Hz. You can attach a SD reader to a MBP, but you cannot attach a Thunderbolt 3.0 on a Dell.
Now, if Apple is using better the budget, it's extremely personal, and everyone has their own opinion, so, if you want your opinion to be respected, then you must respect other people's opinion.
Now, let's go back to my iMac 5K?
lol, I can see the logical gymnastics you're going through like more ports does not mean better. For people who rely on HDMI, SD cards, it means buying extra equipment just so they can have the same level of productivty.
Yet I see we will not get anywhere. I can see you are from the apple can do no wrong camp, and that's fine. I respect your opinion but I also realize furthering this discussion with more examples, stats and exhibits will result in nothing.
Yeah, Apple definitely has a better support, but I've also had very good luck with Dell when I needed them. Its been a while since I contacted dell support so things may have changed but back when I needed them, they were helpful. I understand your YMMV.
My Windows machines are much like that as well (just work). They're very stable and have no more problems then my Macs.
Yup, I agree, more ports is better