AMD Discussion

[0388631]

http://www.guru3d.com/news-story/intel-is-trying-to-manipulate-amd-ryzen-launch.html

This is pretty much confirmation, that Intel is trying to manipulate Ryzen launch.

Which isn't illegal and fairly standard business practice. The "call us before you review" references software or games that highlight Intel's processor over AMD, such as benches that rely heavily on AVX2 over AMD. It's misleading, but not illegal. Intel offering backroom deals with OEMs once again or paying off reviewers to fake the benches is.

NVidia always recommends games that highlight their product. AMD is guilty of convincing reviewers to choose games and software that benefit their hardware. You'll see the same behavior in just about any other industry. Intel reps going to an OEM and trash talking the other guy, while dim, is also not illegal.
[doublepost=1488230605][/doublepost]

You guys still cannot fully believe based on what we already know?

I don't think people understand that this was a completely new architecture designed from the ground up and who Jim Keller is and why he's a significant engineer of the last 30 years.
[doublepost=1488230761][/doublepost]

I'm not sure how Intel is gonna respond to this. Last I checked, intel was gonna give 40 dollars off. LOL.

Actually, unless things have changed, they haven't. Microcenter always lops a chunk from prices to provide a better deal, often selling at or below cost. They routinely bank on you buying your motherboard, PSU, peripherals, RAM, etc. from them. Sometimes even lopping off prices from a CPU and countering it with an additional $25-50 off if you buy a motherboard for that CPU with them.

 

[koyoot]

NVidia always recommends games that highlight their product. AMD is guilty of convincing reviewers to choose games and software that benefit their hardware. You'll see the same behavior in just about any other industry. Intel reps going to an OEM and trash talking the other guy, while dim, is also not illegal.

And you know what Lisa Su have said at the Ryzen Tech Day to reviewers?
"One more thing to reviewers. We welcome you you to review it to your hearts content. Have an incredible time playing with Ryzen."

That shows two things. How AMD approaches the reviewers, and how f*****g confident they are about the product.

 

[cube]

I hope there are no major bugs. Intel messed up with Skylake and Atom, but it gets little exposure compared to what AMD would receive.

 

[koyoot]

I hope there are no major bugs. Intel messed up with Skylake and Atom, but it gets little exposure compared to what AMD would receive.

Strenght of the brand. Lunacy, in other words.

 

[0388631]

And you know what Lisa Su have said at the Ryzen Tech Day to reviewers?
"One more thing to reviewers. We welcome you you to review it to your hearts content. Have an incredible time playing with Ryzen."

That shows two things. How AMD approaches the reviewers, and how f*****g confident they are about the product.

Also because they got some flack with Bulldozer and their past video card attempts. Though some are calling foul on AMD for providing an AM4 aftermarket cooler and not their Wraithe with some press kits. Apart from Keller. Su is posibbly one of their most educated and highly experienced engineers to lead the company. Past CEOs of the last decade or so weren't too experienced with semiconductors, except for Read who worked on the Athlon.
[doublepost=1488231320][/doublepost]

I hope there are no major bugs. Intel messed up with Skylake and Atom, but it gets little exposure compared to what AMD would receive.

It's been pretty well highlighted by actual tech blogs. Regardless of how long developers work on the software behind a launch, there will always be bugs. There's been bugs with just about every CPU and GPU launch in history.

 

[mmomega]

With the Ryzen they are offering $30 off of the motherboard, I haven't settled on a particular model yet but leaning towards the ASUS Crosshair IV.
I saw one new bench this morning comparing the 1700X to a 7700k and a 6950k and the 1700X was beating both, again a synthetic benchmark but it's looking good.

My local Microcenter has the 7700K at $299, which is $40 under what I paid on Amazon just 2 days ago.

I am wanting this new AMD chip to make me send that 7700K and Maximus XI Apex back to Amazon next week.

 

[koyoot]

Zenithal, Lisa is actually great at management, but in the first place - she is an engineer. AMD's approach in recent years was going back to fundamentals. People first - products follow. They wanted to get the best engineers in the first place, and focus on key points of their business, and shake up the industry by innovation.

First is Ryzen. Both with efficiency and price. But wait till you see what AMD is preparing for upcoming months/years...

You have to remember that AMD is hardware based company. All of their business is floating around HSA foundation. And keep this in mind. For AMD it is the next big thing in the hardware department. Ryzen and Vega are first iterations, which are fairly primitive. Only way for AMD to outstand from their competition is to disrupt the market by innovations.

With the Ryzen they are offering $30 off of the motherboard, I haven't settled on a particular model yet but leaning towards the ASUS Crosshair IV.
I saw one new bench this morning comparing the 1700X to a 7700k and a 6950k and the 1700X was beating both, again a synthetic benchmark but it's looking good.

My local Microcenter has the 7700K at $299, which is $40 under what I paid on Amazon just 2 days ago.

I am wanting this new AMD chip to make me send that 7700K and Maximus XI Apex back to Amazon next week.

Im sure you are talking about CPU-Z benchmark. First of all, CPU-Z benchmark was optimized to run with Skylake uarchitecture cache L2(256 KB/core), and the cache size in Ryzen CPUs is two times bigger(512 KB/core). Thats how it gets the scores. Secondly the cache has MUCH higher bandwidth than Skylake uArch.

Thirdly, the Ryzen CPU was heavily OC'ed...

 

[cube]

It's been pretty well highlighted by actual tech blogs. Regardless of how long developers work on the software behind a launch, there will always be bugs. There's been bugs with just about every CPU and GPU launch in history.

The general public is not aware. But AMD would get crucified.

 

[mmomega]

Im sure you are talking about CPU-Z benchmark. First of all, CPU-Z benchmark was optimized to run with Skylake uarchitecture cache L2(256 KB/core), and the cache size in Ryzen CPUs is two times bigger(512 KB/core). Thats how it gets the scores. Secondly the cache has MUCH higher bandwidth than Skylake uArch.

Thirdly, the Ryzen CPU was heavily OC'ed...

I'm fine with any and all of that.
I plan on finding out first hand this week which CPU is going to be returned. I'm definitely not one to buy something and then keep it if I'm not happy with it.
I'll know within a day or two if Zen will be staying in my house.


-----

Did the site say that the 1700X simply overclocked itself using the XFR or whatever built-in overclocking/turbo boost function it has?
I definitely could be mistaken.

 

[AidenShaw]

You guys still cannot fully believe based on what we already know?

We don't *know* anything - we've seen a bunch of rumours and leaks, usually without links to support them.

 

[cube]

amazon.com has the 1800X in stock again, so it jumped back to the #2 spot.

 

[koyoot]

Then ma

We don't *know* anything - we've seen a bunch of rumours and leaks, usually without links to support them.

Then maybe you have not been paying attention properly?

 

[pat500000]

Which isn't illegal and fairly standard business practice. The "call us before you review" references software or games that highlight Intel's processor over AMD, such as benches that rely heavily on AVX2 over AMD. It's misleading, but not illegal. Intel offering backroom deals with OEMs once again or paying off reviewers to fake the benches is.

NVidia always recommends games that highlight their product. AMD is guilty of convincing reviewers to choose games and software that benefit their hardware. You'll see the same behavior in just about any other industry. Intel reps going to an OEM and trash talking the other guy, while dim, is also not illegal.
[doublepost=1488230605][/doublepost]
I don't think people understand that this was a completely new architecture designed from the ground up and who Jim Keller is and why he's a significant engineer of the last 30 years.
[doublepost=1488230761][/doublepost]
Actually, unless things have changed, they haven't. Microcenter always lops a chunk from prices to provide a better deal, often selling at or below cost. They routinely bank on you buying your motherboard, PSU, peripherals, RAM, etc. from them. Sometimes even lopping off prices from a CPU and countering it with an additional $25-50 off if you buy a motherboard for that CPU with them.

Dependency is what's killing them.

 

[0388631]

The general public is not aware. But AMD would get crucified.

General public doesn't go to real computer hardware sites. They go to sites like engadget or crunch. These blogs pick up on stores once they spread. The general public isn't even aware of whether their computer uses Intel or AMD, or if they even know what a CPU is.

Though the general public is on the receiving end of products. Your post making out the general public to be daft is a bit of a misnomer, in that the general public are painfully aware of hardware and software shortcomings once the complains begin rolling in.
[doublepost=1488238652][/doublepost]

Zenithal, Lisa is actually great at management, but in the first place - she is an engineer. AMD's approach in recent years was going back to fundamentals. People first - products follow. They wanted to get the best engineers in the first place, and focus on key points of their business, and shake up the industry by innovation.

That's not remotely what I was saying. Please read my post again. Su is a better CEO because she understands hardware far better than previous AMD CEOs. You essentially reiterated my post. A business man or woman knows little about tech, 9 out of 10 times, believes they know what is best based on past business experience and will cut corners to make more money for shareholders. They don't understand nor want to understand what makes a product a revelation in the industry.

I'm not sure why you chose to repeat what I've been saying for a while now with the second part of your post. Either you misunderstood my post or I have to emphasize my points in bold font next time to make it clearer for some.
[doublepost=1488238881][/doublepost]

Dependency is what's killing them.

What dependency? If you're referring to Intel, they'll hardly be upset over consumer market share loss. Enterprise is their biggest money maker.
[doublepost=1488239032][/doublepost]

Did the site say that the 1700X simply overclocked itself using the XFR or whatever built-in overclocking/turbo boost function it has?

Are you referring to the 5.2 Ghz LN2 cooled Ryzen? All Ryzen processors come with Turbo. XFR is a secondary Turbo that gives 100-200 (possibly 300) Mhz of boost on top of that. The CPU itself decides what to secondary boost at based on power and cooling. All CPUs are unlocked and can be clocked manually.
[doublepost=1488239193][/doublepost]

We don't *know* anything - we've seen a bunch of rumours and leaks, usually without links to support them.

While you have a point, there's been enough differing leaks to point out that they're not the same results being reiterated as if another party is doing them. Even if the benches post NDA come out, there's no real link that can be brought up. Benches have been fudged with in the past. It's really up to third party consumers to pass the results.

 

[koyoot]

That's not remotely what I was saying. Please read my post again. Su is a better CEO because she understands hardware far better than previous AMD CEOs. You essentially reiterated my post. A business man or woman knows little about tech, 9 out of 10 times, believes they know what is best based on past business experience and will cut corners to make more money for shareholders. They don't understand nor want to understand what makes a product a revelation in the industry.

I'm not sure why you chose to repeat what I've been saying for a while now with the second part of your post. Either you misunderstood my post or I have to emphasize my points in bold font next time to make it clearer for some.

Are you sure I contradicted to what you have written, or completely validated what you have written .

Su understands hardware better than any other company, because she is an engineer, in the first place. Hardware engineer, to be precise . As for Rory Read. He basically saved company by changing its profile to Semi-Custom. It is his idea, which provided AMD solid, and steady stream of cash to survive, and make turnaround.

The bad thing about Rory Read era was that vast majority of talent AMD had just got away. Before Rory however had to step down from his position as a CEO of AMD, he got two most important people for AMD to not only survive, but also grow: Jim Keller, and Raja Koduri. And they both came to AMD back, from Apple.

Su is good at management . One of the things that I can tell you about her way of thinking, is that there was at some point in AMD argument, between Keller and Su, about the company's focus on hardware. Keller wanted to focus on K12, ARM core, Su wanted to focus all of their efforts on bringing back the competition in x86 market, back, but in future time, when they reestablish themselves in the market they will focus on K12, again. K12 is not dead, yet, despite it was Keller's child, and will be extremely similar in idea to... you can guess which CPU cores . But that is future. How far off? Not even AMD at this point of time knows. AMD have however made few interesting initiatives with ARM in recent months. It would be good to track them back down, and connect the dots .

P.S. About Keller. No, this "difference in views" about companies focus on markets(x86 vs ARM), was not the reason why Keller left. His job was simply done at AMD.

All of this is adding to what you have pictured, in your first post . Maybe it was not that clear to spot at the beginning.

 

[cube]

There's a live Ryzen unboxing in 5 minutes on youtube

 

[koyoot]

There's a live Ryzen unboxing in 5 minutes on youtube

Link?

 

[cube]

Link?

http://techreport.com/news/31507/join-us-as-we-unbox-amd-ryzen-review-kit-live

 

[pat500000]

http://techreport.com/news/31507/join-us-as-we-unbox-amd-ryzen-review-kit-live

THANKS!!!!

 

[0388631]

Are you sure I contradicted to what you have written, or completely validated what you have written .

Or this is your attempt at saving face.

Su understands hardware better than any other company, because she is an engineer, in the first place. Hardware engineer, to be precise . As for Rory Read. He basically saved company by changing its profile to Semi-Custom. It is his idea, which provided AMD solid, and steady stream of cash to survive, and make turnaround.

She's an electrical engineer by education and trade. Working on hardware, from what I understand, is an offshoot of electrical engineering. To be called a real electrical engineer, in some states you must pass a lengthy certification and ethics process.

The bad thing about Rory Read era was that vast majority of talent AMD had just got away. Before Rory however had to step down from his position as a CEO of AMD, he got two most important people for AMD to not only survive, but also grow: Jim Keller, and Raja Koduri. And they both came to AMD back, from Apple.

Because, again, they're two of the most brilliant people who've worked at AMD.

Su is good at management . One of the things that I can tell you about her way of thinking, is that there was at some point in AMD argument, between Keller and Su, about the company's focus on hardware. Keller wanted to focus on K12, ARM core, Su wanted to focus all of their efforts on bringing back the competition in x86 market, back, but in future time, when they reestablish themselves in the market they will focus on K12, again. K12 is not dead, yet, despite it was Keller's child, and will be extremely similar in idea to... you can guess which CPU cores . But that is future. How far off? Not even AMD at this point of time knows. AMD have however made few interesting initiatives with ARM in recent months. It would be good to track them back down, and connect the dots .

You're basically repeating what I said earlier, again. Su's been through the ropes as an engineer for many years. As has Raja. A person who works in the field and then ranks up over the years knows how to best manage people/a department versus someone who knows only business. Case in point, the US's current President. A bull, sorry, an orange bull in a china shop.

I'm not sure where you got the idea K12 is dead or if I suggested it. K12 has yet to release this year. If I were suggesting K12 were dead, then I'd also suggest Ryzen were on death row, too, because he was the father of the new architecture.

P.S. About Keller. No, this "difference in views" about companies focus on markets(x86 vs ARM), was not the reason why Keller left. His job was simply done at AMD.

That's because anyone who knows about Keller knows he enjoys developing new architecture from scratch and not reiterating old tech. Which is why he went to Apple, which is why he came back to AMD, and why he's now gone to Tesla to build their "next gen" hardware.
[doublepost=1488250562][/doublepost]

http://techreport.com/news/31507/join-us-as-we-unbox-amd-ryzen-review-kit-live

Will watch this later tonight. Thanks for the link. I thought the official embargo ended on the third?

 

[koyoot]

Or this is your attempt at saving face.

Guys, come on... Are my posts that non understandable .

She's an electrical engineer by education and trade. Working on hardware, from what I understand, is an offshoot of electrical engineering. To be called a real electrical engineer, in some states you must pass a lengthy certification and ethics process.

Interesting, I did not know about the requirements for being EE in some states.

Because, again, they're two of the most brilliant people who've worked at AMD.

Some people believe that Raja is incompetent, tho .

You're basically repeating what I said earlier, again. Su's been through the ropes as an engineer for many years. As has Raja. A person who works in the field and then ranks up over the years knows how to best manage people/a department versus someone who knows only business. Case in point, the US's current President. A bull, sorry, an orange bull in a china shop.

Cannot I have discussion with adding from myself things people have not written in their posts?

I'm not sure where you got the idea K12 is dead or if I suggested it. K12 has yet to release this year. If I were suggesting K12 were dead, then I'd also suggest Ryzen were on death row, too, because he was the father of the new architecture.

Cannot I add something from my knowledge, to your point of view? Do I always have to argue with people, or people have to always believe I am arguing with them?

I have just added information about K12 to picture something about AMD, Lisa, and Keller .

P.S. I don't think we will see K12 this year, unfortunately.

That's because anyone who knows about Keller knows he enjoys developing new architecture from scratch and not reiterating old tech. Which is why he went to Apple, which is why he came back to AMD, and why he's now gone to Tesla to build their "next gen" hardware.

That is correct.

 

[cube]

Will watch this later tonight. Thanks for the link. I thought the official embargo ended on the third?

Not building, running, talking about performance, or showing pins.

 

[cube]

RAM support:

https://ocaholic.ch/modules/news/article.php?storyid=16205

It would be good to see what happens with CL15 3600MHz RAM.

 

[cube]

LED stuff:

http://www.mobipicker.com/watch-amd-ryzen-wraith-max-rgb-cooler-caught-action-looks-impressive/

 

[dylin]

A business man or woman knows little about tech, 9 out of 10 times, believes they know what is best based on past business experience and will cut corners to make more money for shareholders. They don't understand nor want to understand what makes a product a revelation in the industry.

This part right here made me think about Tim Cook.