Anyone else doubting an iPP 2018 this year or June at Least?...

[spiderman0616]

I totally agree. Ideally what the Pro X should be is a giant version of the iPhone X minus the notch. (OLED screen, FaceID, total gesture based system, ForceTouch, etc) The problem with that is the cost of OLED screens on an iPad aren't cost effective.

Also idk why, but they haven't put ForceTouch into any iPads yet and for me it fragments the experience. Oh sure we get Apple Pencil support, but muscle memory being what it is, i still find myself force touching my screen (10.5) and nothing happens. This is a problem. I don't get why they cant incorporate both functionality.

What im hoping for is a announcement and launch shortly after at WWDC...Whats more likely I feel is Anouncement, launch in the fall.

Keep in mind, last year apple announced 2 products at WWDC that didn't hit market in time. The HomePod (which sounds great but is dumb as a bag of rocks) and the AirPad, which still isn't out yet.

Granted both were brand new products, and the iPad Pros are just next gen models, but still...

Also lets keep in mind, now that Apple Pencil support is on the lower end iPads, Outside of the screen (size and functionality) Processor, and SmartConnect, whats the major difference.

Most people who just want an iPad for media consumption and light drawing/writing with the pencil are obviously going to go for the lower end model.

The SmartConnect functionality can be replaced by a simple Bluetooth Keyboard Case or standalone keyboard.

Most people aren't really going to care about the 120Hz refresh rate or slightly bigger screen or HDR Functionality or Pixel count, and the Processor is still good enough for most media consumption and gaming...

So in reality, what is going to diffrenate the Pro from the standard model?

It has to be a redesign with Face ID, and added functionality and a new pencil. If they do add Face ID it has to work in landscape mode too otherwise its going to be a major pain to unlock it...

Is that worth twice the price? I honestly don't know..But I wouldn't be shocked if there was a price drop on the pros as well..

If the Pros started at 500 dollars..I wouldn't complain one bit...

I never understood this argument though. If someone is looking specifically for an iPad Pro or even if they don't know anything about the different models and are just saying "I use my iPad for absolutely everything under the sun and I want the most fancy, powerful one there is", THOSE PEOPLE are going to care about all the things that you are saying nobody cares about. That was the case before the standard iPad added Pencil support, and it is the case now. It doesn't really hold water when you say, "Well, most people don't care about 120 hz refresh rates, faster processors, more RAM, bigger screen, HDR support, quad audio, etc., so they're not going to buy an iPad Pro." There is a subset of users that care about those things, and it's roughly the same subset of users that cared about those things before. Certainly there is a subset of THAT subset that only ever wanted a Pro for the Pencil. Those people will now go to the 2018 iPad.

The 2018 iPad with Pencil support certainly does sweeten the deal for people who don't want to buy a Pro. But it does not make a bit of difference to people who know what they're buying when they get an iPad Pro. That's probably a niche group of users when compared to the amount of people that buy non-Pro iPads/iPad minis, but that's always going to be the case. It was before, and it is now. I just don't get it when people say there's not a big enough difference between the standard and Pro models, then list off all the differences between them, and then claim nobody cares about those features. There are BIG differences, and to many, they are worth the extra money.

 

[eVolcre]

I never understood this argument though. If someone is looking specifically for an iPad Pro or even if they don't know anything about the different models and are just saying "I use my iPad for absolutely everything under the sun and I want the most fancy, powerful one there is", THOSE PEOPLE are going to care about all the things that you are saying nobody cares about. That was the case before the standard iPad added Pencil support, and it is the case now. It doesn't really hold water when you say, "Well, most people don't care about 120 hz refresh rates, faster processors, more RAM, bigger screen, HDR support, quad audio, etc., so they're not going to buy an iPad Pro." There is a subset of users that care about those things, and it's roughly the same subset of users that cared about those things before. Certainly there is a subset of THAT subset that only ever wanted a Pro for the Pencil. Those people will now go to the 2018 iPad.

The 2018 iPad with Pencil support certainly does sweeten the deal for people who don't want to buy a Pro. But it does not make a bit of difference to people who know what they're buying when they get an iPad Pro. That's probably a niche group of users when compared to the amount of people that buy non-Pro iPads/iPad minis, but that's always going to be the case. It was before, and it is now. I just don't get it when people say there's not a big enough difference between the standard and Pro models, then list off all the differences between them, and then claim nobody cares about those features. There are BIG differences, and to many, they are worth the extra money.

Well said. Nothing to add.

eV

 

[rui no onna]

I never understood this argument though. If someone is looking specifically for an iPad Pro or even if they don't know anything about the different models and are just saying "I use my iPad for absolutely everything under the sun and I want the most fancy, powerful one there is", THOSE PEOPLE are going to care about all the things that you are saying nobody cares about. That was the case before the standard iPad added Pencil support, and it is the case now. It doesn't really hold water when you say, "Well, most people don't care about 120 hz refresh rates, faster processors, more RAM, bigger screen, HDR support, quad audio, etc., so they're not going to buy an iPad Pro." There is a subset of users that care about those things, and it's roughly the same subset of users that cared about those things before. Certainly there is a subset of THAT subset that only ever wanted a Pro for the Pencil. Those people will now go to the 2018 iPad.

The 2018 iPad with Pencil support certainly does sweeten the deal for people who don't want to buy a Pro. But it does not make a bit of difference to people who know what they're buying when they get an iPad Pro. That's probably a niche group of users when compared to the amount of people that buy non-Pro iPads/iPad minis, but that's always going to be the case. It was before, and it is now. I just don't get it when people say there's not a big enough difference between the standard and Pro models, then list off all the differences between them, and then claim nobody cares about those features. There are BIG differences, and to many, they are worth the extra money.

I doubt majority of users get the Pro models. The upgrades are certainly nice but I doubt most would consider them worth double the price of the basic model. Average selling price of iPads on the 10-K reports suggests more people buy "basic" iPads than Pro models.

Granted, the difference is before, there was only one iPad model which starts at $499 so everyone pretty much gets the same thing differing only in terms of capacity and wireless connectivity. Now, there's market segregation between premium and entry-level (although looking at the overall tablet market, the basic iPad is really mid-tier). Despite the introduction of the Pro 12.9 (November 2015) and Pro 9.7 (March 2016), the concept of Pro vs non-Pro wasn't really a thing until the 5th gen iPad 9.7" was released in March 2017 starting at $329.

 

[AlexJoda]

I doubt majority of users get the Pro models. The upgrades are certainly nice but I doubt most would consider them worth double the price of the basic model. Average selling price of iPads on the 10-K reports suggests more people buy "basic" iPads than Pro models.

Granted, the difference is before, there was only one iPad model which starts at $499 so everyone pretty much gets the same thing differing only in terms of capacity and wireless connectivity. Now, there's market segregation between premium and entry-level (although looking at the overall tablet market, the basic iPad is really mid-tier). Despite the introduction of the Pro 12.9 (November 2015) and Pro 9.7 (March 2016), the concept of Pro vs non-Pro wasn't really a thing until the 5th gen iPad 9.7" was released in March 2017 starting at $329.

See it the same way. The only real reason (now that we have even the pencil for the basic iPad) to buy the next Pro for me is the screen size of the 12.9" Pro which does not exist as a "basic" iPad. Everything else is a kind of luxury which I might pay for but not the common iPad user....

 

[spiderman0616]

I doubt majority of users get the Pro models. The upgrades are certainly nice but I doubt most would consider them worth double the price of the basic model. Average selling price of iPads on the 10-K reports suggests more people buy "basic" iPads than Pro models.

Granted, the difference is before, there was only one iPad model so everyone pretty much gets the same thing differing only in terms of capacity and wireless connectivity. Now, there's market segregation between premium and entry-level (although looking at the overall tablet market, the basic iPad is really mid-tier).

I definitely agree there, and that's definitely always been the case. The market for the iPad Pro is a small sliver of the overall iPad market. My point though is that the people buying the iPad Pro are people who appreciate the extra features and horsepower. It's not really logical to say "more people buy the regular iPad because the differences aren't worth it". It's more accurate to say "more people buy the regular iPad because that's all most people need". That is never going to change.

This entire topic is kind of splitting hairs though--a lot of people these days seem to be realizing they don't need any of it and can do most things on a smartphone. So it's easy for us iPad enthusiasts to get into this circular argument on an iPad-centric forum about if people want a Pro or not. But even in my own life, as the years go by, I'm finding myself more and more often deciding that when I'm out and about, the combination of iPhone/Apple Watch/AirPods is more than enough.

 

[Radon87000]

I use my iPad Pro more than my computer, iPhone and Apple Watch combined. I actually cant imagine living without one now that I think about it.

 

[spiderman0616]

I use my iPad Pro more than my computer, iPhone and Apple Watch combined. I actually cant imagine living without one now that I think about it.

I would never give up my iPad Pro at this point in time--my post above was not to suggest that. But I DO opt to leave it at home more often than I have in past years. I still find it to be a wonderful device and laptop replacement for my own uses, and do a lot of "power user" type tasks on it that I used to only do on computers.

 

[rui no onna]

I definitely agree there, and that's definitely always been the case. The market for the iPad Pro is a small sliver of the overall iPad market. My point though is that the people buying the iPad Pro are people who appreciate the extra features and horsepower. It's not really logical to say "more people buy the regular iPad because the differences aren't worth it". It's more accurate to say "more people buy the regular iPad because that's all most people need". That is never going to change.

This entire topic is kind of splitting hairs though--a lot of people these days seem to be realizing they don't need any of it and can do most things on a smartphone. So it's easy for us iPad enthusiasts to get into this circular argument on an iPad-centric forum about if people want a Pro or not. But even in my own life, as the years go by, I'm finding myself more and more often deciding that when I'm out and about, the combination of iPhone/Apple Watch/AirPods is more than enough.

One of the points I was trying to make is it hasn't really been "always" the case. From 2010 to 2016, looking at the 10" class, there weren't really Pro vs non-Pro. Sure, there was the Pro 9.7 in 2016 but that was basically just an upgrade/refresh from the iPad Air 2. If one wanted a cheaper device, then one went for older generation models. It wasn't until March of last year that we got clear market segregation between Pro and non-Pro.

 

[eVolcre]

I would never give up my iPad Pro at this point in time--my post above was not to suggest that. But I DO opt to leave it at home more often than I have in past years. I still find it to be a wonderful device and laptop replacement for my own uses, and do a lot of "power user" type tasks on it that I used to only do on computers.

That's going to be my use case as well. Like you said most of my out and about work is done on the X. Heck, even couch surfing, news, YouTube videos ... the phone is just fine. I'm looking specifically for a laptop replacement (lets not get into the argument about whether it is one or not, for ME it is, that's all that matters) and as a laptop replacement the 329 iPad won't cut it. There's probably quite a large number of people like me who aren't looking for simply a content consumption iPad, the basic one will work just fine for that, but do appreciate the extra horsepower (editing multiple 4K video streams into a movie for example), the screen benefits, smart keyboard etc ...

Beginning with ios 11 and hopefully with the new 'X', the iPad pro does work as a laptop replacement for a lot of people. I'll probably always have a desktop and that's my go forward strategy. No point paying so much money for a 'laptop' when I barely use the power. Get an iPad pro as a mobile device and an imac for the home office.

eV

 

[spiderman0616]

That's going to be my use case as well. Like you said most of my out and about work is done on the X. Heck, even couch surfing, news, YouTube videos ... the phone is just fine. I'm looking specifically for a laptop replacement (lets not get into the argument about whether it is one or not, for ME it is, that's all that matters) and as a laptop replacement the 329 iPad won't cut it. There's probably quite a large number of people like me who aren't looking for simply a content consumption iPad, the basic one will work just fine for that, but do appreciate the extra horsepower (editing multiple 4K video streams into a movie for example), the screen benefits, smart keyboard etc ...

Beginning with ios 11 and hopefully with the new 'X', the iPad pro does work as a laptop replacement for a lot of people. I'll probably always have a desktop and that's my go forward strategy. No point paying so much money for a 'laptop' when I barely use the power. Get an iPad pro as a mobile device and an imac for the home office.

eV

Exactly the same on my end--we don't differ there. I do get a sense of freedom sometimes though when I'm leaving the house and thinking, "Ok, I'm going to need to do this and this and this" and realize none of that even requires a device as big as an iPad. Especially in the warmer months when I'm always trying to travel as light as possible. But my iPad Pro is indispensable to me for all the other stuff I do, and it does go out of the house with me when necessary--just no more than a laptop ever did.
[doublepost=1527094169][/doublepost]

One of the points I was trying to make is it hasn't really been "always" the case. From 2010 to 2016, looking at the 10" class, there weren't really Pro vs non-Pro. Sure, there was the Pro 9.7 in 2016 but that was basically just an upgrade/refresh from the iPad Air 2. If one wanted a cheaper device, then one went for older generation models. It wasn't until March of last year that we got clear market segregation between Pro and non-Pro.

That's a good point--when I say "always" I just mean since the original iPad Pro came out. There was always going to be a segment that appreciated the extra features, and it was always going to be a sliver of the general iPad buying public.

 

[eVolcre]

Exactly the same on my end--we don't differ there. I do get a sense of freedom sometimes though when I'm leaving the house and thinking, "Ok, I'm going to need to do this and this and this" and realize none of that even requires a device as big as an iPad. Especially in the warmer months when I'm always trying to travel as light as possible. But my iPad Pro is indispensable to me for all the other stuff I do, and it does go out of the house with me when necessary--just no more than a laptop ever did.
[doublepost=1527094169][/doublepost]
That's a good point--when I say "always" I just mean since the original iPad Pro came out. There was always going to be a segment that appreciated the extra features, and it was always going to be a sliver of the general iPad buying public.

My favorite iPad (and only one actually) EVER was the iPad mini. Great for browsing around the house. Super easy to take it out and about. Worked as a kindle, just the right size that thumb typing was possible on the onscreen keyboard.

Wish they'd update the darn thing. IPP 12.9 to replace my 'laptop' and a mini alongwith it is probably the best combination.

I was stuck on the IPP.5 for a while. It was better as a 'tablet' and then I realized I don't really want to browse or read books on a 10.5" screen. My kindle fire HD from 2014 is 8.7 (or something close) and that's the biggest I'll go. So why compromise? Just get the 12.9 and focus it on specific tasks and either continue to use my iPhone X for on the go or wait for an updated mini. (the rumored Surface Andromeda foldable device is also very compelling for on the go/notes/ebooks etc).

 

[jimmy_uk]

Many people including me think that the Pros are not so much superior that they can demand twice the money for it...A new Pro with the recent CPU and GPU, smaller bezels, FaceID and so on would be acceptable for that price...

I gave away my 2015 12.9 Pro 4 weeks ago to wait for the new one released at WWDC. In the meantime I got me the 2018 iPad and am surprised how good it is. The only thing I am really missing is the screen size from my 12.9....

And stereo speakers and smart connector surely?

 

[Mad Mac Maniac]

Spoiler

iPad mini 7.9"

Current iPad mini 7.9":

• Display diagonal: 7.9"
• Display dimensions: 4.71" × 6.28"
• Aspect ratio: 1.33:1
• Resolution: 1536 × 2048 pixels (326 PPI)
• Display area: 30 square inches
• Device area: 42 square inches
  
• Bezels: 0.30" long side, 0.86" short side.

If the device dimensions of the 7.9" are kept the same and the bezels on the short side are reduced to match the bezels on the long side:

• Display diagonal: 8.8"
• Display dimensions: 4.71" × 7.40"
• Aspect ratio: 1.57:1
• Resolution: 1536 × ~2412 pixels (assuming 326 PPI)
• Display area: 35 square inches (+18%)
• Device area: 42 square inches
• Bezels: 0.30" long side, 0.30" short side.

If the device dimensions of the 7.9" are kept the same and the bezels are reduced to match the bezels on the iPhone X:

• Display diagonal: 9.1"
• Display dimensions: 4.97" × 7.66"
• Aspect ratio: 1.54:1
• Resolution: ~1620 × ~2500 pixels (assuming 326 PPI)
• Display area: 38 square inches (+29%)
• Device area: 42 square inches
• Bezels: 0.17" long side, 0.17" short side.

iPad Pro 10.5"

Current iPad Pro 10.5":

• Display diagonal: 10.5"
• Display dimensions: 6.32" × 8.42"
• Aspect ratio: 1.33:1
• Resolution: 1668 × 2224 pixels (264 PPI)
• Display area: 53 square inches
• Device area: 68 square inches
  
• Bezels: 0.27" long side, 0.72" short side.

If the device dimensions are kept the same and the bezels on the short side are reduced to match the bezels on the long side:

• Display diagonal: 11.3"
• Display dimensions: 6.32" × 9.33"
• Aspect ratio: 1.48:1
• Resolution: 1668 × ~2464 pixels (assuming 264 PPI)
• Display area: 59 square inches (+12%)
• Device area: 68 square inches
• Bezels: 0.27" long side, 0.27" short side.

If the device dimensions of the 10.5" are kept the same and the bezels are reduced to match the bezels on the iPhone X:

• Display diagonal: 11.5"
• Display dimensions: 6.52" × 9.53"
• Aspect ratio: 1.46:1
• Resolution: ~1720 × ~2516 pixels (assuming 264 PPI)
• Display area: 62 square inches (+17%)
• Device area: 68 square inches
• Bezels: 0.17" long side, 0.17" short side.

iPad Pro 12.9"

Current iPad Pro 12.9":

• Display diagonal: 12.9"
• Display dimensions: 7.76" × 10.35"
• Aspect ratio: 1.33:1
• Resolution: 2048 × 2732 pixels (264 PPI)
• Display area: 80 square inches
• Device area: 105 square inches
  
• Bezels: 0.46" long side, 0.84" short side.

If the device dimensions of the 12.9" are kept the same and the bezels on the short side are reduced to match the bezels on the long side:

• Display diagonal: 13.5"
• Display dimensions: 7.76" × 11.11"
• Aspect ratio: 1.43:1
• Resolution: 2048 × ~2932 pixels (assuming 264 PPI)
• Display area: 86 square inches (+7%)
• Device area: 105 square inches
• Bezels: 0.46" long side, 0.46" short side.

If the device dimensions of the 12.9" are kept the same and the bezels are reduced to match the bezels on the iPhone X:

• Display diagonal: 14.4"
• Display dimensions: 8.35" × 11.70"
• Aspect ratio: 1.40:1
• Resolution: ~2204 × ~3088 pixels (assuming 264 PPI)
• Display area: 98 square inches (+22%)
• Device area: 105 square inches
• Bezels: 0.17" long side, 0.17" short side.

Note: All these numbers ignore any notch or rounded corners.

Awesome work! As I look at that and think about it, I wonder... If Apple WERE to make these kind of major screen size/aspect ratio changes, there really is no reason they would keep the devices the same size (outside of the 10.5 iPad being approx the smallest lengthwise dimension for a fullsized keyboard). The iPad device size/demensions are pretty good, but if Apple is going fullscreen and altering the aspect ratio it would be just as easy to go back to the drawing board and rebuild the screen size/dimension as they see fit. I wonder what would be the 2 (or 3) most optimal screeen size/demensions? Likely not too far off from the current sizes, but it provokes a good thought experiment

 

[spiderman0616]

And stereo speakers and smart connector surely?

When people are trying to prove certain points, they like to either leave features out of their arguments or explain them away as "things nobody wants". I know I DEFINITELY enjoy the quad audio and much prefer it over the old style iPad speakers at the bottom of the unit. I would also never go back to the non-laminated screen of a standard iPad after using fully laminated screens on iPads for the last few years. These are apparently things nobody cares about though, so I'm in the minority.

 

[augustya]

But like someone raised this point earlier, if not in WWDC it really is a question when will Apple relase the 2018 iPad Pro's because September is for iPhone and then I do not think so just about the Holidays Apple would make it so close to make it neck to neck.

 

[rui no onna]

But like someone raised this point earlier, if not in WWDC it really is a question when will Apple relase the 2018 iPad Pro's because September is for iPhone and then I do not think so just about the Holidays Apple would make it so close to make it neck to neck.

They've done it before - iPad 4, Air, Air 2, 1st gen Pro 12.9.

 

[Radon87000]

Apple will not release a new iPad whose only improvement over the current gen is FaceID and no bezels and a spec bump. No 2nd gen Pro owner will upgrade just for that.

 

[Nismo73]

Starting to wonder about this myself. They have enough to have an October event this year...Lets say at WWDC they do a revamped MacBook Pro and iMac....they can stretch time out enough to talk about new internals, the screen, etc....and I think they'll have a SE2 phone.

For the fall there's, iPhone, watch, MacBook Air replacement, smaller Home Pod, Air Pods2, a detailed look at Mac Pro and release date, new display...and last but not least iPad Pro new form factor.

But I am personally hoping for a new iPad Pro at WWDC.

 

[spiderman0616]

Apple will not release a new iPad whose only improvement over the current gen is FaceID and no bezels and a spec bump. No 2nd gen Pro owner will upgrade just for that.

I have been wondering how likely this scenario is:

Spec bump to A11X for both sizes of iPad Pro with no redesign. Maybe more RAM for both, but I don't think it's needed, and that won't be a line item on the spec sheet anyway--Apple almost never mentions RAM with iOS devices. The usual better audio, slightly improved display, etc. etc.

BUT

Then also an Apple Pencil 2 that only works with iPad Pro due to its new features and functionality being tied to the 120hz ProMotion display. Maybe a new version of Smart Keyboard as well.

Anyone else think this is a possibility?

 

[eVolcre]

I have been wondering how likely this scenario is:

Spec bump to A11X for both sizes of iPad Pro with no redesign. Maybe more RAM for both, but I don't think it's needed, and that won't be a line item on the spec sheet anyway--Apple almost never mentions RAM with iOS devices. The usual better audio, slightly improved display, etc. etc.

BUT

Then also an Apple Pencil 2 that only works with iPad Pro due to its new features and functionality being tied to the 120hz ProMotion display. Maybe a new version of Smart Keyboard as well.

Anyone else think this is a possibility?

Yep. I’ve been thinking this for months. The iPad X will follow the precedent laid down by the iPhone X release. Current models, old chassis, receive a spec bump on chips. A new premium stand alone iPad X announced , different size , edge to edge Lars say around 11.5”. They’ll then take a year to transition the old mksela to X style gradually.

I’m still saying WWDC accouncement shipping in q3 which is sep 1. Back to school is a pretty big market, doubt they want to lose that.

What’ve you heard about Pencil? I’ve seen vague rumors without details

 

[Adrianinkc]

I don’t see an iPad X announced till the iPhone X drops in price or after the Plus X drops. There’s no way an iPad is going to start at $800 with all the tech from a $1,000 phone unless iPads are going up in price

 

[Mad Mac Maniac]

Apple will not release a new iPad whose only improvement over the current gen is FaceID and no bezels and a spec bump. No 2nd gen Pro owner will upgrade just for that.

Are you kidding me? An upgrade to A11X, faceID and elimination of bezels would be a massive update. I'm not really sure what more you'd be expecting in a year. Also what more do you (realistically) want? Lastly, and I can't believe how many times this has to be repeated over and over again, Apple doesn't expect people to upgrade every year (although they certainly wouldn't mind if you did). Most people in most situations don't upgrade their computers, tablets, and phones but every few years...

 

[eVolcre]

Are you kidding me? An upgrade to A11X, faceID and elimination of bezels would be a massive update. I'm not really sure what more you'd be expecting in a year. Also what more do you (realistically) want? Lastly, and I can't believe how many times this has to be repeated over and over again, Apple doesn't expect people to upgrade every year (although they certainly wouldn't mind if you did). Most people in most situations don't upgrade their computers, tablets, and phones but every few years...

Everything you said is also a pretty compelling reason to move people from the 329 basic iPad to the Pro. HUman nature .. people do want new shiny things. And a redesign does that.

 

[augustya]

There are some websites, which are saying that Apple May hold a separate special event just to announce the iPad Pro 2018. In any case, if and when Apple decides to announce the iPad Pro for 2018, I do hope they also ring a complete iPad Case like they had for the 2016 iPad Pro.

 

[jimmy_uk]

........ In any case, if and when Apple decides to announce the iPad Pro for 2018, I do hope they also ring a complete iPad Case like they had for the 2016 iPad Pro.

Doubtful as too much money to made selling a smart cover and sleeve.


It's getting harder to wait for WWDC as the Surface Book 2 is on sale and can get a decent deal on a 10.5" ipad pro. If no new ipad pro comes I just know I'm to miss out on these offers!