All iPads Anyone thinking about Eliminating iPad?

[musicpenguy]

Yes, that’s what I’m saying. If an iPad meets your needs, then you don’t need a Mac.

For the rest of us, the iPad falls short for a number of reasons discussed and more. So no, an iPad alone will not cut it.

FYI: I know a new 12.9” iPad Pro. I have used it maybe 30 minutes in the since I got it on launch. I will use it a bit more, like Web surfing and reading books; most of my computing is on a MacBook Pro 15” and a 5k LG Ultrafine monitor.
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Kurosov:

You keep arguing with yourself. There is no argument. An iPad does not replace orders of magintude more computing power and much larger displays. Anybody who is a serious professional as I’ve discussed would never use the iPad as a main computer. If they did they’d be at a disadvantage to the point of going broke in their profession. Too much panning, zooming, pinching, gorilla arm, etc. It’s terribly inefficient and makes no sense for several professions on its own.

For those people where the iPad can serve as a main machine then great. But it’s not the case for everyone. I am one of those people.

Right now, let’s get outside of work and look at leisure. I writing this on my iPhone X laying on the couch. My MacBook Pro is close by. My iPad: sucks to hold in my hands and type at the same time. Is also not lappable, so is a stillborn product when it comes to laying down and typing.

At work, I use it for note taking, some Email and browsing, but my main computing platform is two large monitors and a MacBook Pro.

On one of my big screens is a 25 column spreadsheet with VLOOKUP and Pivot tables along with Macros. This latter sucks on an iPad because of how much data there is and how much panning and zooming there is, and isn’t even fully supported.

Professional use of a device in the strictest sense means you make money from using said device for the task you are doing - I think in that very strict definition of pro then there are thousands of pros out there including restaurants using iPads to manage their reservations and seating.

I use it as my role in marketing, which includes creating promotional art assets, podcasts, videos, etc.

There are a great number of jobs that can be fully run off an iPad and to look down on such professions is pretty thoughtless to think of just how you and those like you need a device to operate for pro use.

 

[kurosov]

You keep arguing with yourself. There is no argument. An iPad does not replace orders of magintude more computing power and much larger displays. Anybody who is a serious professional as I’ve discussed would never use the iPad as a main computer. If they did they’d be at a disadvantage to the point of going broke in their profession. Too much panning, zooming, pinching, gorilla arm, etc. It’s terribly inefficient and makes no sense for several professions on its own.

Visual based professions are already a lot of panning and zooming, Being able to do so directly is the opposite of inefficient.

On one of my big screens is a 25 column spreadsheet with VLOOKUP and Pivot tables along with Macros. This latter sucks on an iPad because of how much data there is and how much panning and zooming there is, and isn’t even fully supported.

Nobody is saying the iPad is the ideal tool for that kind of work. The problem if you have been brushing off other professions in which the form factor and interaction is better suited than traditional methods.

Yes, there are "serious professionals" who are doing their work primarily on an iPad and doing so has meant a boost in productivity. You're saying any serious professional you have spoken to would never use the device to professionals here telling you otherwise.

 

[booksbooks]

Visual based professions are already a lot of panning and zooming, Being able to do so directly is the opposite of inefficient.



Nobody is saying the iPad is the ideal tool for that kind of work. The problem if you have been brushing off other professions in which the form factor and interaction is better suited than traditional methods.

Yes, there are "serious professionals" who are doing their work primarily on an iPad and doing so has meant a boost in productivity. You're saying any serious professional you have spoken to would never use the device to professionals here telling you otherwise.

Yes I agree there are uses cases for an iPad. The point is that the iPad cannot replace a computer for everyone. It’s simple.

While an iPhone replaced a phone, iPod, and PDA, the iPad does not do that when it comes to desktops and laptops in terms of replcing them like that. Some people can get on with an iPad as their main computer but many people cannot.

When it comes to screensize, the amount of panning, pinching and zooming one has to do with large amounts of information on the iPad is inefficient without question. It cannot compete with 28” 5k monitors that show much more amounts on screen along with multi-monitor support, not just mirroring. It’s a silly comparison.

 

[Greenmeenie]

Nope. Exactly the opposite. I bought the very first iPad in 2010, and was immediately hooked. At first I thought i’d use it only as a media consumption device. But I began to use it for everything. I travel a lot, and pretty soon, I found I was leaving my laptop at home more and more. My iPad became indispensable, and I kept buying new iPads every couple of years to keep up with the latest tech. A few years later, I ditched my laptop entirely. I can’t even imagine the thought of traveling with a bulky laptop anymore. True, laptops have gotten lighter too, but nothing can compare to the portability of an iPad. I don’t even use a keyboard with it. I much prefer typing on the virtual keyboard.

Anyway...even if thru some miracle, I find the need to get a laptop for whatever reason down the road...I would never get rid of my iPad. There will always be many things I prefer doing on an iPad. Always. And to be honest, with iPads getting more and more powerful...and with hopefully more changes coming to iOS...I don’t ever see myself getting a laptop again. But that’s me. It’s all good. These are just tools to get stuff done. So whatever works for you is the best tool.

 

[akash.nu]

Maybe I’m spoiled, but I can’t imagine not having a smartphone, laptop and tablet. I use my iPhone for general stuff when I’m out of the house, my MBP is my workhorse at home (or even outside, when necessary) and my iPad is my main travel companion and device I use at home when I don’t need to do any work.

That’s exactly how I use my devices as well.

 

[secretk]

I'd say the 12.9" iPad is plenty big enough evn in these cases with the ability to easily zoom. Anyone with more severe eye conditions probably isn't working in visual design, An industry involving visual accuracy. Note, The points to start with were in relation to designing a flyer specifically.

12.9 is still a small screen to me . True I do not work in visual design, but iPad is not just for people that work in visual design. They sell it and advertise it for everyone and in that sense I am saying that it's not until it supports multiple monitors properly. Only then I would not have issues seeing as I will use big screen. However then I need trackpad so that I can use mouse directly to guide what's on my monitor and not use the iPad as a touch device.

These gestures are far easier to remember than the many keyboard combinations required in photoshop, illustrator or indesign, We've just had much longer to learn the shortcuts. Wrist issues once again would be a problem with design even with a wacom tablet on a desktop.

But I don't care about Photoshop, Illustrator or anything else. Again iPad is not just for designers, it's for regular people. And shortcuts for Copy and Paste, task manager etc are far easier to use than gestures. I do use Procreate on my iPad and I don't remember the gestures there either. If I had shortcuts I would have used them. Gestures put so much strain on my wrist that I prefer to not use them. And the bigger screen, the worst it will be for me.

You'd be looking down at a cintiq the same way with less freedom to adjust as you please. The pencil is designed for visual media production, it functions fantastically at that role and is far more precise than drawing with a mouse.

Again I am not designer. I don't care about the cintiq tablet. I care about the device itself and whether it can be used to enhance my productivity or to hinder it. Currently it hinders it.

It's clear you're complaining about a completely different use case which makes arguing against what i said pointless.

If we are talking about the designer use case then yes it's different. However no one said that the iPad is just for designers and artists. They advertise it for everyone and currently the iPad does not cover all cases. If anything it covers the most the artist's use cases. It does not cover my needs as a leader of a Software Development team. And I am not even talking about coding here. I am talking about working with multiple Word/Excel/Powerpoint files, checking emails and answering back, lots of chats with people all around the world. But yeah it does not support coding either.

 

[kurosov]

If we are talking about the designer use case then yes it's different. However no one said that the iPad is just for designers and artists. They advertise it for everyone and currently the iPad does not cover all cases. If anything it covers the most the artist's use cases. It does not cover my needs as a leader of a Software Development team. And I am not even talking about coding here. I am talking about working with multiple Word/Excel/Powerpoint files, checking emails and answering back, lots of chats with people all around the world. But yeah it does not support coding either.

My original post was in reference to someone saying a flyer could only be made with a template on the iPad and no “serious professional” uses one to get work done, I was talking about a designer use case. I think I’ve been pretty clear that you choose the best tool for the job and for that particular job the iPad is a great choice.

Nobody, not even apple is claiming the iPad is a replacement to a traditional desktop or laptop for everyone. We are saying it can be for some.

 

[alecgold]

No.

I am saying that if you can use a current iPad and you don’t need a current Mac, you didn’t need a Mac in the first place.

How eloquently put and what a brilliant argumentation...

 

[flur]

But for anything serious, like file operations, media creation... anything actually important in fact, an iPad starts showing serious limitations. You can't even upload a new song to your Apple library without a real computer... and that's just music.

It’s interesting to me that as I never 100% invested in the Apple ecosystem, I have an easier time converting to the iPad as a primary device. I don’t ever need to upload a song to my Apple library, I don’t need to load anything to iTunes ever, because IMO it’s a crap application. I use Kindle, not iBooks, Spotify, not Apple Music (and yes, I’ve uploaded my purchased collection), Word, not Pages, etc. and my experience using the iPad to create “actually important” stuff has been great, as has my experience with media consumption. My entire file system is, again, not Apple ecosystem, it’s Dropbox, so reorganizing or arranging files is super simple on the iPad.

 

[Greenmeenie]

Nope. Not me. I even got rid of my laptop. My iPad is my main mobile computing device now.

 

[flur]

I bet, for instance, the flyer produced was from a template and/or is simplistic.

People who are professionals like Grahpic Designers, Architects, Project Managers, Business Analysts, Computer Programmers, Stock Traders, etc etc. need a Mac, because:

1. They need screen real estate. The iPad has a relatively small screen and with no multi-monitor support. Studies show increasing monitors up to 4 results in productivity gains of 25% each. Screen real estate is a major short-coming of the tablet form factor.
2. Power. Desktop and even the best MacBook Pro spank the iPad Pro in terms of computing power. This is important for multi-tasking and for software that requires a lot of computing power, particularly programs that want 32 GB of RAM or more to perform optimally.
3. Form-factor. The iPad is a retangular screen that is meant to hold and touch and be used mobily. It’s a terrible LAPtop and an even worse desktop.
4. Multi-touch cannot compete with the speed and precision of a mouse. You’re meaty fingers and requirement to lift your gorilla arms a lot of times are a non-starter: this creates fatigue and multiple inefficiencies. And the stylus cannot compete either because the precison of a mouse is at 1 pixel and the stylus requires much more arm movement.
5. Software. iOS is a blown up smartphone OS. It’s not as good at multi-tasking as OS X and the software applications on it pale in comparison to what’s available on Mac or Windows.

The way you use a computer is consumer based: you appear to not be a professional like a Graphic Designer, or Stock Trader, or Architect, or many other things that require much more of a computing platform than a tablet computer.

You’ve proven my point: you don’t need a Mac for what you’re doing. For those of us who do, we use Macs. We get the precision of a mouse, along with the benefit of multi-touch, in addition to multiple monitor support, raw computing power, and much more complete software.

I’m a writer and business consultant. As a consultant I’ve worked as a PM, BA, Test Lead, and a dev. I currently work in Business Intelligence.

(1) It’s been over a decade since I’ve worked with a screen larger than 13 inches, and when I did, none of those screens had the resolution of the 12.9” iPad Pro. This argument is null.
(2) I don’t think I’ve ever received a work machine with more than 8gb of RAM.
(3) With a good Bluetooth keyboard, the experience of using the iPad, either size, is extremely similar to using a laptop or desktop of similar size. There’s just no form factor issue.
(4) Here you have a point, but I don’t think it’s as strong as you think it is. I haven’t used a mouse in over a decade, I do my work with a trackpad. There are definitely things that are faster with a pointer though. Excel in particular is slow going on an iPad.
(5) This is where the real issue lies. I can’t have multiple Word docs open at the same time. I can’t have a gazillion different files open in Excel. I can’t write/edit VBA macros. Quite a few of the primary applications I use in my work don’t exist for the iPad. And of course none of the homegrown client software runs on an iPad.

No you can’t do everything needed in the project lifecycle on an iPad. But you know what? You can’t do it on a Mac either in most instances, because of (5) as well - corporate America runs on PCs.

 

[Amazontabletsftw]

Everybody thinks apple has won the tablet wars, but they're really just beginning. Pretty soon you'll be able to buy a cheap windows tablet that will tear thru most high resource work in use right now(4k video/Photoshop, etc). I give it a year or two before we get those devices. Why buy your kid an iPad pro in the future when a $500 Surface Go will be able to do EVERYTHING for him. Apple needs to play it safe right now or else they risk losing a large chunk of their iPad line(it's happened before with the mini) The war is far from over(cue fanboys with that incorrect sales graph photo)

 

[fs454]

Yep. iOS isn't capable enough to deserve the screen size unless your workflow is Pencil-heavy (mine is not). I have a 10.5 since it came out and use it maybe once a month. I just can't get around having to hold the thing up to use it. It doesn't feel productive and I know a new display size and more power are not what I need to feel better about it - iOS needs a ground up rethink for "pro" tablet use. It's tough to deal with photo management and editing from, period. I'm honestly likely to sell the 10.5 and not get anything else.

 

[fate0311]

Yep. iOS isn't capable enough to deserve the screen size unless your workflow is Pencil-heavy (mine is not). I have a 10.5 since it came out and use it maybe once a month. I just can't get around having to hold the thing up to use it. It doesn't feel productive and I know a new display size and more power are not what I need to feel better about it - iOS needs a ground up rethink for "pro" tablet use. It's tough to deal with photo management and editing from, period. I'm honestly likely to sell the 10.5 and not get anything else.

I am with my fellow Bostonian. Going back to just my MBP. Does not add enough value to my flow.

 

[Jim]

With the elimination of the app store connection in iTunes, I'm feel as though I am being forced to go Mac only. It is the only way to get large Filemaker files onto the iPad. 1 Gb files are just to large to go via wifi or bluetooth, you have to keep wiggling your finger on the iPad screen to prevent it from going to sleep. So, unless they update 12.6.5.3 iTunes to work on the new iPads they can't be considered.

 

[musicpenguy]

Everybody thinks apple has won the tablet wars, but they're really just beginning. Pretty soon you'll be able to buy a cheap windows tablet that will tear thru most high resource work in use right now(4k video/Photoshop, etc). I give it a year or two before we get those devices. Why buy your kid an iPad pro in the future when a $500 Surface Go will be able to do EVERYTHING for him. Apple needs to play it safe right now or else they risk losing a large chunk of their iPad line(it's happened before with the mini) The war is far from over(cue fanboys with that incorrect sales graph photo)

Except that Microsoft isn’t making the high powered chips that Apple is - Apple is so far ahead from a chip perspective it’ll be hard to compete

 

[TheColtr]

The funny thing is I’m moving the opposite way. I’ve all but eliminated my MacBook Pro in favor of the iPad Pro. I do 99 percent of my work on the iPad. I really love the iPad and iOS.

And yes I do have a actual business job. I work in sales so the iPad is great for presentations and for generally being mobile.

 

[2ms]

Aside from the crazy high prices of the new iPad Pros today, I'm starting to think with MacBook Pros getting better displays, being even lighter, and of course, still more powerful (especially with the VEGA graphics), I'm finding that I can probably squeeze the iPad out of my workflow.

I'm currently on a 2013 macbook pro 15" and I'm looking to maybe upgrade when Cannonlake comes out, and it got me thinking, I almost never bother with my iPad as I can usually do just fine with my macbook pro and my iPhone 7 Plus for when I'm away from my mac. I'm starting to struggle to find a usage scenario for my iPad.

Anyone else thinking about going back to the old lineup of just a mac and a phone?

If anything I'll get rid of phone and use watch instead. iPad is the future of portable computing.

 

[booksbooks]

I’m a writer and business consultant. As a consultant I’ve worked as a PM, BA, Test Lead, and a dev. I currently work in Business Intelligence.

(1) It’s been over a decade since I’ve worked with a screen larger than 13 inches, and when I did, none of those screens had the resolution of the 12.9” iPad Pro. This argument is null.
(2) I don’t think I’ve ever received a work machine with more than 8gb of RAM.
(3) With a good Bluetooth keyboard, the experience of using the iPad, either size, is extremely similar to using a laptop or desktop of similar size. There’s just no form factor issue.
(4) Here you have a point, but I don’t think it’s as strong as you think it is. I haven’t used a mouse in over a decade, I do my work with a trackpad. There are definitely things that are faster with a pointer though. Excel in particular is slow going on an iPad.
(5) This is where the real issue lies. I can’t have multiple Word docs open at the same time. I can’t have a gazillion different files open in Excel. I can’t write/edit VBA macros. Quite a few of the primary applications I use in my work don’t exist for the iPad. And of course none of the homegrown client software runs on an iPad.

No you can’t do everything needed in the project lifecycle on an iPad. But you know what? You can’t do it on a Mac either in most instances, because of (5) as well - corporate America runs on PCs.

1) No, the point is far from null. That's absurd. Screen real estate is absolutely important and applies to the multiple professions I've listed and more. If you don't need the extra screen real estate, cool, but your needs are not generalized to everyone else.
2) You've never received or worked with a machine with more than 8 GB of RAM because you've never needed it, which does not equate to everyone else.
3) To say there is no form factor issue when comparing to a laptop is absurd. The point is that it is NOT LAPPABLE. A person can manage to lap the iPad, but the experience is terrible and particularly bad in relation to a laptop.
4) I haven't used a 'mouse' in over a decade either, I use a TRACKPAD which is a modern day mouse, which provides the benefits of a mouse PLUS ALL OF THE IPAD'S MULTITOUCH.

I have no issue with anyone that is using an iPad Pro as their only computer, or whatever. Simply, when it comes to the question of whether it's a laptop replacement, the answer is that it isn't. For some people it may be, but the general answer is a resounding No. Was the iPhone a replacement for the iPod and the PDA and the mobile phone? Yes. And we're all never going back. But when it comes to tablets, they do not antiquate laptops and desktops like this because they don't replace all of the features of these devices and more. They only introduce a couple of novel features: form factor and multi-touch. This, all at the expense of losing key features that people need.

In other words, tablets like the iPad are narrowly focused devices that can serve some specific use cases for people but themselves are not a computing panacea.

 

[flur]

1) No, the point is far from null. That's absurd. Screen real estate absolutely important and applies to the multiple professions I've listed and more. If you don't need the extra screen real estate, cool, but your needs are not generalized to everyone else.
2) You've never received or worked with a machine with more than 8 GB of RAM because you've never needed it, which does not equate to everyone else.
3) To say there is no form factor issue when comparing to a laptop is absurd. The point is that it is NOT LAPPABLE. A person can manage to lap the iPad, but the experience is terrible and particularly bad in relation to a laptop.
4) I haven't used a 'mouse' in over a decade either, I use a TRACKPAD which is a modern day mouse, which provides the benefits of a mouse PLUS ALL OF THE IPAD'S MULTITOUCH.

I have no issue with anyone that is using an iPad Pro as their only computer, or whatever. Simply, when it comes to the question of whether it's a laptop replacement, the answer is that it isn't. For some people it may be, but the general answer is a resounding No. Was the iPhone a replacement for the iPod and the PDA and the mobile phone? Yes. And we're all never going back. But when it comes to tablets, they do not antiquate laptops and desktops like this because they don't replace all of the features of these devices and more. They only introduce a couple of novel features: form factor and multi-touch. This, all at the expense of losing key features that people need.

In other words, tablets like the iPad are narrowly focused devices that can serve some specific use cases for people but themselves are not a computing panacea.

Here’s the thing. Don’t go around claiming that everyone who does X needs what you want. I don’t. And I’ve worked professionally in more than one of the fields you claim. And my consulting coworkers are using the same machines I am, to do, again, MANY of the jobs you listed. So maybe stick to your own experience and don’t speak for the multitude of professionals out there who do their jobs every single business day without your laundry list of desires.

 

[booksbooks]

Here’s the thing. Don’t go around claiming that everyone who does X needs what you want. I don’t. And I’ve worked professionally in more than one of the fields you claim. And my consulting coworkers are using the same machines I am, to do, again, MANY of the jobs you listed. So maybe stick to your own experience and don’t speak for the multitude of professionals out there who do their jobs every single business day without your laundry list of desires.

I work in an organization of thousands of people. And work with all of the professions I've listed and more. I've been in the software industry for over a decade. I'm also a partner at a creative agency. I'm not just speaking from my own experience.

 

[Amazontabletsftw]

Except that Microsoft isn’t making the high powered chips that Apple is - Apple is so far ahead from a chip perspective it’ll be hard to compete

The old kabylake CPU in the surface go does well for itself, it''s surprisingly quick(read the reviews). A four core cannonlake or icelake CPU would be game changing. If Ms can get a fast, next gen CPU in the surface go, watch out.

 

[musicpenguy]

The old kabylake CPU in the surface go does well for itself, it''s surprisingly quick(read the reviews). A four core cannonlake or icelake CPU would be game changing. If Ms can get a fast, next gen CPU in the surface go, watch out.

I honestly think Microsoft just isn’t working on the chips and Intel isn’t doing much - sadly there isn’t much competition here. The Surface hardware outside of the chips are great and has an interesting OS offering.

 

[vapourtrails]

I’m thinking more of getting rid of my phone and using an iPad on the go. I find the phone screen too small and the iPad much better. I just wish they would let the Apple Watch pair to the iPad

 

[subjonas]

I’m thinking more of getting rid of my phone and using an iPad on the go. I find the phone screen too small and the iPad much better. I just wish they would let the Apple Watch pair to the iPad

Which iPad? Surely not the 12.9.