App Store to Be 'Split in Two' Ahead of EU iPhone Sideloading Deadline

[jimbobb24]

This makes no sense.

If anything, it is giving consumers more choice, not less. If you still prefer only using the App Store fine.

But now Apple will be forced to compete on lower store taxes, which means lower prices for consumers.

It makes sense. Dont be unnecessarily ignorant of the complaints. One of the choices that many uses value most is being taken away...the option to treat their phone as a simple device and not a computer with all the issues a computer can face. A huge group doesn't want sidekloading and side loading will be forced on them. The advocates are taking that choice away and it's extremely important. Everyone will eventually be forced to side load once it exists.

Also...there is no guarantee prices will drop for consumers. It is entirely possible for popular apps the prices remain the same and a different corporation captures the money. Are prices really that different on Android for apps?

 

[jimbobb24]

If you have a monopoly, it will behave in a monopolistic manner. If you have competition, there will be competition based on price, quality, or maybe something else, such as user experience. Monopoly is the least favoured market arrangement, unless it's a natural monopoly (economies of scale dictate that it needs to be a single supplier), as it leads to sub-optimal outcomes for the consumer, and excess profits for the monopolist.
This is first year classical microeconomics.

Within the market for iOS apps, Apple has a monopoly on the distribution of those apps.
Looking at it from the perspective of app developers, Apple is a gatekeeper and can prevent other app producers from even competing at all. At its heart, that is an anti-competitive market structure.

All markets can be defined narrowly enough that everyone has a monopoly. Who has a monopoly on selling Subway sandwiches...subway does.

But if I define that market as who has the monopoly on long sandwiches sold for lunch...lots of companies. If I define the market as fast food...well even more.

So...Apple doesn't have a monopoly on phones or even app store ecosystems. Multiple competitors exist. It's not simple economics that dictate this debate its your definitions. The easiest answer for side loading people is go do Android dont destroy iPhone.

Should all devices with general use potential have to allow loading apps from anywhere? Sony, Nintendo, Xbox? There is nothing easy about this.

 

[RammyXX]

The concern from people who this change doesn't even concern is quite funny to me.

 

[WarmWinterHat]

Once Sideloading exists no one will be able to avoid it and everyone will be forced into side loading. It ruins the current experience.

Why hasn't this been the case on Android? Wife has been Android for a decade, has everything she needs and wants, and has never sideloaded or used an alternate app store. What makes iOS so different?

 

[j26]

All markets can be defined narrowly enough that everyone has a monopoly. Who has a monopoly on selling Subway sandwiches...subway does.

But if I define that market as who has the monopoly on long sandwiches sold for lunch...lots of companies. If I define the market as fast food...well even more.

So...Apple doesn't have a monopoly on phones or even app store ecosystems. Multiple competitors exist. It's not simple economics that dictate this debate its your definitions. The easiest answer for side loading people is go do Android dont destroy iPhone.

Should all devices with general use potential have to allow loading apps from anywhere? Sony, Nintendo, Xbox? There is nothing easy about this.

Given the barriers to entry between Android and iOS (high cost of phones, people "caught" on subscription plans, different enough user interfaces to be annoying (and I see both sides of that fence, havingg an iPad and an Android phone)), there is a strong argument to say that they are indeed separate markets, with limited movement between them. And that's quite aside from the peer pressure exerted on teens to conform with "norms" - I see it in my own daughters - they all have iPhones, and wouldn't consider Android.

The various food examples you have given are a different beast altogether. Low barriers to entry, ease of swapping between suppliers, widely varying tastes of the consumers etc. Sometimes you want fast food, sometimes á la carte. Phones are different - you may only change phone every few years.

I agree it's not that easy to draw a line, but it's clear enough that from an economic point of view the iOS app market is not competitive, and the reason for that is Apples dominant position.

Two thirds of the world's phone users operate in a market that has multiple stores available, and their world hasn't fallen apart. One third are locked in to an anti-competitive market with a privately owned profit seeking gatekeeper, and leaving that market to join another one has been made intentionally difficult by all the major players in the wider market. That can't be good for those consumers.

 

[sleeptodream]

I take it you don't use a Mac then, with its compromised security and all.

I don’t carry around my mac everywhere I go, with cameras on both sides of it

Why hasn't this been the case on Android? Wife has been Android for a decade, has everything she needs and wants, and has never sideloaded or used an alternate app store. What makes iOS so different?

The Play store is what it is because of the App store. If a major software company wants to pull out of both stores, it doesn’t look nearly as bad as “if you have Android you must download from our site, but it’s in the App store if you have an iPhone 🤗”

And they will, if this spreads to other countries. Major companies that already have enough brand recognition will leave and the App store will be just like the one on Mac in a few years, ie mostly useless.

People will stop experimenting with new apps because they’re not going to sideload something from an unknown dev that may or may not be shady, knowing it hasn’t been vetted by Apple, and the major software companies will have more control of the market than they do currently, and prices will go up.

 

[sleeptodream]

I have a Mac and an iPad, but I prefer to keep my phone as Android. Right now I have a Samsung. This is how multiple app stores works for me.

Most of what I have comes from the Play Store. Samsung being Samsung tries to push the Samsung Store, and some of my built in apps update through that. There are also one or two apps I downloaded, such as Good Lock, a customisation utility that's not available on the Play Store. Also, since my PV solar system is made by Huawei, I had to download Huawei's App Gallery to get the control app for the panels as it's not available on the Play Store.
I also download the DJI drone app directly from the DJI website as it never seems to work properly through the Play Store for me. I haven't done that for a while as I haven't been using the drone at all lately, but the phone makes me go through a few confirmations to directly install an APK file, so I'm sure I know what I'm doing.

The three app stores all manage their respective apps, and updates, whether automatically or on demand. The DJI app lets me know if an update is due when I open it.

So the net result of it all? No drama. Everything just works fine.

The wailing on this thread is almost a textbook treatise on corporate Stockholm Syndrome...

That sounds like a terrible experience, tbh…

 

[j26]

And they will, if this spreads to other countries. Major companies that already have enough brand recognition will leave and the App store will be just like the one on Mac in a few years, ie mostly useless.

People will stop experimenting with new apps because they’re not going to sideload something from an unknown dev that may or may not be shady, knowing it hasn’t been vetted by Apple, and the major software companies will have more control of the market than they do currently, and prices will go up.

That may be, and if so, Europe will be an interesting test case, with loads of data to look over. It could be (a) a cautionary tale, or (b) a model to emulate.
I'm open to see what it brings, as I believe competition, real competition is good.

Maybe I'd consider an iPhone if it works out - although I'd rather Huawei to come back with a play Store offering - the P30 Pro was the best phone I ever owned, current one included.

 

[j26]

That sounds like a terrible experience, tbh…

It's entirely straightforward (bar DJI) and undramatic, so terrible is a substantial overstatement.

 

[sleeptodream]

That may be, and if so, Europe will be an interesting test case, with loads of data to look over. It could be (a) a cautionary tale, or (b) a model to emulate.
I'm open to see what it brings, as I believe competition, real competition is good.

Maybe I'd consider an iPhone if it works out - although I'd rather Huawei to come back with a play Store offering - the P30 Pro was the best phone I ever owned, current one included.

I honestly think it will reduce competition on the software side. Currently all developers are competing on the same playing field. The app store made it much easier for newer companies to break into the market and compete with the big names. I think we’ll see less and less of that

That may be, and if so, Europe will be an interesting test case, with loads of data to look over. It could be (a) a cautionary tale, or (b) a model to emulate.
I'm open to see what it brings, as I believe competition, real competition is good.

Maybe I'd consider an iPhone if it works out - although I'd rather Huawei to come back with a play Store offering - the P30 Pro was the best phone I ever owned, current one included.

Agreed, Huawei has some special sauce for sure. I actually just got a P30 Pro as I finally moved to Tmobile from Verizon. It’s still pretty great even now.

I’ve considered trying a P60 to see if I can live without the Play store, since I’m not a huge fan of Google services other than Youtube

 

[sleeptodream]

It's entirely straightforward (bar DJI) and undramatic, so terrible is a substantial overstatement.

I would say it’s subjective. Brussel sprouts can be terrible for me and not everyone else.

You may not mind it but you sound pretty tech savvy, I can’t imagine trying to walk my parents through that though.

You have to look at this through the lens of someone that wants simplicity. For those that want sideloading Android already exists.

Yin and yang, there was a good balance.

 

[DanTheMan827]

Please Apple for EU:
separate app store, no update, no support, limited warranty!
Any sideload - warranty voided!

What next? Visit an unapproved website and your warranty is void?

I sincerely hope you’re being sarcastic and I’m just missing it, because that is absolutely anti consumer if not straight up illegal if you’re not…

 

[hagar]

500+ comments and the first one already mentions WW3. Way to keep it chill. I’m sure when this comes to the US everyone will applaud it. Jealousy is not a pretty sight 😄

 

[DanTheMan827]

EU: It’s unfair that only McDonalds gets to sell the Big Mac. McDonald’s must allow it to be sold in Burger Kings and Taco Bell too.

I’m constantly in awe of how absolutely stupid EU regulators are. Somehow they manage to be worse than America.

I’m constantly in awe of how absolutely everyone is so out of touch with the actual issue…

The issue isn’t what Apple is doing on the App Store, it’s that the App Store is the only way for users and developers to get software.

Apple can unilaterally say “you know what? Now the fee will go up to 40%… what’re you going to do about it?”

Or they can release a new service (like sign-on with Apple for example) and say “hey everyone, we’ve released our new service and if you want to remain on the App Store you have to support it!”

They are abusing their control to their own competitive advantages, and that’s the issue

 

[DanTheMan827]

Not in this case.

Apps store and phone setting right now is region set up of App Store and region specific text but one ipa file.

This is basically saying EU gets side loading and no one else does.

It is Apple putting other security holes in the OS to allow for this.

This is just Apple changing their policy… iOS already allows sideloading, but their policy prohibits developers from making use of it outside of their own enterprise users.

 

[DanTheMan827]

Why wouldn’t you be allowed to leave?

Because you can’t shop anywhere else but the App Store.

The analogy would be that you can only shop at Walmart, and you can’t shop anywhere else.

You’re at the mercy of what Walmart decides to charge, and what products they decide to allow to be sold.

Looking at things that way, it’s completely unreasonable, but that’s exactly what Apple is doing with the App Store… the one source for obtaining software for the entire iOS market

 

[DanTheMan827]

I do wonder how it will work. Would it be enough to switch my Apple account to the US to keep away from this EU idiocracy? Or do I need to import my next iPhone from the US entirely?

Just don’t make use of the feature!

No one is forcing you to sideload anything.

 

[DanTheMan827]

um. So you admit your analogy doesn't hold water?

Consumers had all the power they needed. They don't like the secured garden? go android. that's called choice. If enough people did that, Apple would change their ways. Thats how market force works.

Government Officials stepping in are not doing it for you, they are doing it for themselves to get re-elected, because there are a lot of people that want something for nothing, and this appeals to them.

The walled garden isn’t why most people bought the iPhone… they bought the iPhone because it integrates extremely well with every other Apple product

 

[DanTheMan827]

YOU USED to have a choice between an OPEN system (Android) and a CLOSED system (iOS) the EU is TAKING THAT CHOICE AWAY!!!

No, they’re just adding another choice.

Don’t want to sideload on iOS? Just don’t… it really isn’t that difficult.

Most people have the option of sideloading on Android, but they never even bother to flip that toggle in the settings.

 

[DanTheMan827]

It will not matter as these App developers in the other stores will not be $99 for development kit and they will be paying licensing fees for using the API to iOS which Apple owns 100%. We will also see more of Apple only features. Everyone must remember that while you own the phone you do not own the operating system. You have a license to use it with your phone but that is it. Every software product you have is licensed so no software is owned.

By the way all of the stores you mention are not free in any sense. You are either selling your customers data or paying a licensing fee to participate on the platform. At least in the App Store the customer is choosing to pay and not being the product.

You don’t need to use Apple’s development tools, you just need to know how to talk to the operating system.

There are many examples of hobbyists creating development tools for closed platforms and not having to pay the licensing fee for the official tools.

APIs aren’t SDKs

Hell, the U.S. required that Microsoft open up their OS APIs and provide documentation for them free of charge…

 

[bollman]

😂 Not fake news. And not even nearly the same as government. At all.
Did you vote to be in the EU? No, no one did.
Did you vote for Ursula von der Leyen or Jean-Claude Juncker? No, no one did.

Nice try.

I sincerely hope you are not an EU citizen.
The representatives elect their leader. Noone in the USA voted for Mike Johnson to be the speaker of the house, only members of the house did. That's how von der Leyen was elected: by the representatives from each member state, these in turn elected by the people of each member state.
I for sure voted for being in the EU, the referendum was held in 1994 and we entered into the union in 1995.

 

[sleeptodream]

No, they’re just adding another choice.

Don’t want to sideload on iOS? Just don’t… it really isn’t that difficult.

Most people have the option of sideloading on Android, but they never even bother to flip that toggle in the settings.

It won’t be optional. How many big name developers have their apps on the Mac App store? Could you use a Mac without sideloading anything? It would be pretty difficult

 

[DanTheMan827]

What makes you think the alternate app stores, and/or sideloaded apps won't be running in a strict sandbox, same as Appstore apps?

They absolutely will, but DMA also requires that Apple add additional APIs that don’t currently exist to enable things like being able to change the default digital assistant away from Siri, or to access JIT in order to provide alternate browser engines.

I’d personally love it if they made those APIs available worldwide for developers to use… imagine if you could access the virtualization features of the M2 chip in the iPad to run Windows, Linux, or even potentially macOS inside of a virtual machine. But that will never happen willingly from Apple because being able to run virtual machines would mean Apple no longer has a say in what the user is allowed to do with their own device.

 

[AppliedMicro]

Sounds like fun for EU. Developers will pull their apps from the official app store and there will be no more quality control at all.

Why would they pull their apps from the dominant app marketplace?
That’s nuts, as long as Apple offer fair rules and competitive commission - or are you saying they don‘t?

Also Apple Pay won't be supported as good anymore and will have to manually sign-up on each website and give your credit card details to each of those websites.

I have 75+ year old (non-techie) family members that happily use PayPal for online purchases.

Can't install Android on an iPhone! What kind of BS is this? The EU should sue Apple and force them to allow installation of any OS on an iPhone

The EU doesn’t regulate hardware / mobile phones.

I imagine Apple will make it a little more abrasive than they are otherwise known for. They could for example make it so that you can only open up an iPhone for sideloading at an Apple Store or add in limitations to devices that have been jailbroken, eg no more Apple Pay. This is an Apple Service which they would be within their rights to remove access to

Stop fantasising and read the legislation. While I have little doubt that Apple will try to make it as hard and cumbersome as they can…

„The gatekeeper shall not engage in any behaviour that undermines effective compliance with the obligations of Articles 5, 6 and 7 regardless of whether that behaviour is of a contractual, commercial or technical nature, or of any other nature, or consists in the use of behavioural techniques or interface design.“

„The gatekeeper shall not degrade the conditions or quality of any of the core platform services provided to business users or end users who avail themselves of the rights or choices laid down in Articles 5, 6 and 7, or make the exercise of those rights or choices unduly difficult“

Regulators will be scoring slam dunks on Apple for some the stuff you suggested.

 

[Beautyspin]

Please Apple for EU:
separate app store, no update, no support, limited warranty!
Any sideload - warranty voided!

If Apple voids Warranty, it will end up paying 10% of its global revenue as fine