App Store to Be 'Split in Two' Ahead of EU iPhone Sideloading Deadline

[icanhazmac]

Sounds like they will need to compete for once instead of providing a subpar service as you describe it.

I never said the Apple store is providing subpar service, that is a lie, try harder. I find the Apple app store experience to be superior to the likes of Steam.

But alas steam is still dominating on every platform because they still provide the best store and best services

I don't find the Steam store experience to be all that great. It's not bad but nothing special. They aren't dominating for any reason other than they were first and are known as the game store.

 

[Sophisticatednut]

It will not matter as these App developers in the other stores will not be $99 for development kit and they will be paying licensing fees for using the API to iOS which Apple owns 100%. We will also see more of Apple only features. Everyone must remember that while you own the phone you do not own the operating system. You have a license to use it with your phone but that is it. Every software product you have is licensed so no software is owned.

By the way all of the stores you mention are not free in any sense. You are either selling your customers data or paying a licensing fee to participate on the platform. At least in the App Store the customer is choosing to pay and not being the product.

He, EU would love to have a conversation with you. The APIs aren’t copyrighted and software that is sold with the hardware is sold as hardware and owned by the user.

A license cannot dictate whether it wants.

 

[j26]

I have a Mac and an iPad, but I prefer to keep my phone as Android. Right now I have a Samsung. This is how multiple app stores works for me.

Most of what I have comes from the Play Store. Samsung being Samsung tries to push the Samsung Store, and some of my built in apps update through that. There are also one or two apps I downloaded, such as Good Lock, a customisation utility that's not available on the Play Store. Also, since my PV solar system is made by Huawei, I had to download Huawei's App Gallery to get the control app for the panels as it's not available on the Play Store.
I also download the DJI drone app directly from the DJI website as it never seems to work properly through the Play Store for me. I haven't done that for a while as I haven't been using the drone at all lately, but the phone makes me go through a few confirmations to directly install an APK file, so I'm sure I know what I'm doing.

The three app stores all manage their respective apps, and updates, whether automatically or on demand. The DJI app lets me know if an update is due when I open it.

So the net result of it all? No drama. Everything just works fine.

The wailing on this thread is almost a textbook treatise on corporate Stockholm Syndrome...

 

[Onelifenofear]

Apple is telling you what apps you can install or not.
Why are people so afraid of allowing users to decide what to install on their devices?
Nobody is forcing them to go outside the App Store if it makes them feel better to stay in their walled garden.

And? We chose that security over the Wild West of Android.

Apple as far as I am concerned have my back with the App Store process. Other stores and side loading will not.

also why shouldn't Apple be allowed to. They designed the phone / App Store and the countless API's that tie into it... Why should developers be allowed to profit from that for free?

If I were apple I'd be saying ok go for it... install what you want. All this side load apps will be siloed and have no access to anything that requires Apple's api's... No photo access, no files etc. They get input, Connection, screen and volume controls, thats the lot.

Xbox, PlayStation, Nintendo... they going to be forced to open up next?

 

[Ctrlos]

But don't worry. As soon as Epic shows too much success, the EU will work to hobble it.

When Epic creates an industry and infrastructure used by 20% of the population of the whole planet I imagine they might.

iPhone is less the car and more the roads the apps drive on.

 

[thejadedmonkey]

SO LEAVE! Geeze. Victims all around.

I'd love to. But I write apps, for myself, so I'd need to leave the iOS ecosystem.

And unfortunately, my choices are iOS, Google, or quit the 21st century.

 

[Ctrlos]

And? We chose that security over the Wild West of Android.

You do realise that Android is a pretty secure OS these days, right?

Privacy issues are less the OS and more the search giant mining your data (which they do just as much of on iOS)

 

[Timo_Existencia]

I'd love to. But I write apps, for myself, so I'd need to leave the iOS ecosystem.

And unfortunately, my choices are iOS, Google, or quit the 21st century.

Well...if it brings you grief, life is short. Go find something you love to develop on and for.

 

[Onelifenofear]

I have a Mac and an iPad, but I prefer to keep my phone as Android. Right now I have a Samsung. This is how multiple app stores works for me.

Most of what I have comes from the Play Store. Samsung being Samsung tries to push the Samsung Store, and some of my built in apps update through that. There are also one or two apps I downloaded, such as Good Lock, a customisation utility that's not available on the Play Store. Also, since my PV solar system is made by Huawei, I had to download Huawei's App Gallery to get the control app for the panels as it's not available on the Play Store.
I also download the DJI drone app directly from the DJI website as it never seems to work properly through the Play Store for me. I haven't done that for a while as I haven't been using the drone at all lately, but the phone makes me go through a few confirmations to directly install an APK file, so I'm sure I know what I'm doing.

The three app stores all manage their respective apps, and updates, whether automatically or on demand. The DJI app lets me know if an update is due when I open it.

So the net result of it all? No drama. Everything just works fine.

The wailing on this thread is almost a textbook treatise on corporate Stockholm Syndrome...

For you... who knows what they are doing. Say some dodgy phone repair shop easily side load a keyloger on your grannies or kids iPhone. This has happened a lot on Android.

It's not Stockholm, it's understanding the difference between a safe space or the Wild West.

 

[j26]

For you... who knows what they are doing. Say some dodgy phone repair shop easily side load a keyloger on your grannies or kids iPhone. This has happened a lot on Android.

It's not Stockholm, it's understanding the difference between a safe space or the Wild West.

It's more about the apps you download than the shops you get them from.

You should always reset your phone before and after a repair. What's to stop them loading dodgy software on an iPhone?

There's plenty of garbage in ALL stores.

 

[gnipgnop]

So the net result of it all? No drama. Everything just works fine.

The wailing on this thread is almost a textbook treatise on corporate Stockholm Syndrome...

iOS works fine as well. The EU isn't doing this because one OS "works fine" and the other doesn't. It's supposedly about competition. The problem is that the EU can't really define what competition would provide since they never bothered to do any real world comparisons of pricing for apps on iOS, Android, Windows, Mac, Xbox, Playstation or Switch.

You're saying that you buy most of your apps on the Play Store so obviously you aren't finding bargains galore elsewhere.

 

[Onelifenofear]

He, EU would love to have a conversation with you. The APIs aren’t copyrighted and software that is sold with the hardware is sold as hardware and owned by the user.

A license cannot dictate whether it wants.

Nope. iOS is propetory and copyrighted. As are all it's API's

iOS is most definitely a software licence and the T&C are agreed to when you set it up. You do not "own" it. You are just not paying for it. This is the same for Android which is free and Windows which is not. You cannot sell the licence at all, you can make a transfer ( which is what happens if you sell the phone )

All the APIs that control the phone are 100% owned by apple. So Apple could creat a Third party "silo" where other appstores and their apps exist and they could have almost NO access to Apple's software or ecosytem. And that's what they may do. Basically web apps. Photos for example may require a special permission from EACH app in the silo to access - This kind of happens now, but coudl be even more restricted.

https://www.apple.com/legal/sla/docs/iOS17_iPadOS17.pdf

 

[Onelifenofear]

It's more about the apps you download than the shops you get them from.

You should always reset your phone before and after a repair. What's to stop them loading dodgy software on an iPhone?

There's plenty of garbage in ALL stores.

For one you have a record of anything installed via the appstore. I get an email when anything is installed on my or my family devices.

There may be garbage, bu the the appstore doesn't have anything resembling keyloaggers or password forwarders, transparent screenreaders, remote cameras work arounds etc.

 

[j26]

...

You're saying that you buy most of your apps on the Play Store so obviously you aren't finding bargains galore elsewhere.

No, I'm saying that if I need an app from a different store, it's no major issue, and doesn't lead to the collapse of society, or my phone.

 

[Onelifenofear]

You do realise that Android is a pretty secure OS these days, right?

Privacy issues are less the OS and more the search giant mining your data (which they do just as much of on iOS)

I may well be secure in a lot of ways. But if I had Physical access to a phone and could plug it into a laptop. I can side load an app onto any android device in about 30 seconds. Even without the password... It however it MAY thow up warning when it's first run.

Apple doesn't data mine. You need to read the Privacy and Security pages. Most of iOS Data is completely locked out to Apple. Apps however ARE an issue. Which is why I don't use WhatsApp, Facebook or any google apps - or limit them in the secutry settings. It's all in the app listing what access they are requesting... people don't read that stuff and some of it horrible... especially games found via social media.

 

[webkit]

This is more correct but to what end? The app isn't going to be better or cheaper. So what's the point of buying it through a different store? And before you say competition, with whom? It's the same product in a different store at the same price.

We don’t know what added app access competition on iOS will do to pricing, flexibility, etc. Last month, Apple announced it was testing an App Store "subscription bundle discount" program perhaps in anticipation of future sideloading and alternative app store competition on iOS. Anything Apple has to do to try to make the App Store more appealing to users and developers is a good thing, and competition is a way to help make that necessary.

 

[Ctrlos]

We don't even know Apple's business model for this yet.

For all we know they've created an 'Storefront API' which allows developers to build their own stores atop the same security as Apple's own one. This would still require a developer account and distribution from the App Store first. The EU only specified that Apple must open up iOS to other storefronts and not to random apps off the internet.

For developers it might be as easy as just ticking a few boxes upon app submission about which stores will host their app. Apps will then have to go through the usual certification process and upon acceptance the hosts of other stores will then get a message saying "App X has passed certification, do you agree to hosting?" at which point they agree or decline.

It would be in Apple's favour to still act as the middleperson given devs will still need a dev account subscription and a Mac for building apps. They are no longer the gatekeeper and more the sheriff. Yeah we probably wouldn't get emulators but it would allow other storefronts to coexist with the App Store whilst maintaining security.

 

[gnipgnop]

No, I'm saying that if I need an app from a different store, it's no major issue, and doesn't lead to the collapse of society, or my phone.

Right. But you already admitted that going to another store was mostly due to the app either not being available on the Play Store or that the Play Store version didn't work as well (like with your DJI drone). You weren't going to other stores to get bargain prices relative to the Play Store.

Like I said, the EU isn't doing this because going to another store "works fine". They have always claimed it's a competitive issue. Also like I said, the EU has never provided any real world studies comparing pricing between the various "open" (Windows, Android, macOS) and "closed" (iOS, iPadOS, Xbox, Playstation, Switch) systems. IMO, they intentionally avoided doing that because they knew it wouldn't support any of their claims per consumers.

 

[bayportbob]

If I wanted unvetted apps on my phone with all of my sensitive data I would not have bought an iPhone in the first place. if I want to side load apps on my iPhone there are ways to do it if I chose to do it. I do not need government agencies telling me how to secure my data, or not, because I bought my device and I can choose how I want it to be supported to protect my data. it is called free market enterprise. it is a freedom of choice issue. while there are some choice issues I support and some i do not choose to support, this is one choice that EU is getting wrong and will end up screwing up with in the long run. Steve was and remains right on this issue.

 

[jimbobb24]

Good on the EU for standing up for consumers over companies/profits! 👏🏻 We (US) have completely succumbed to corporate control and profit over absolutely everything else.

Sure....OR the majority of users dont care about side loading or they would have Android or actively passionately DONT want it. I am in the former camp. Sideloading isn't what I want from my phone, or my PS5, or my Switch, or my toaster.

Once Sideloading exists no one will be able to avoid it and everyone will be forced into side loading. It ruins the current experience. If that is the experience you want there is a whole world of phones that feature that ecosystem.

 

[timborama]

I love a government telling me what I can and cannot buy.

I bought an iPhone, in large part, for the security and convenience of all apps coming from a single verifying source.

Now it’s going to become the same Balkanized nonsense that Android is.

Thanks, Europe.

You’re still free to chose whatever store you want. I don’t understand why people getting all worked up over this… nothing to see, move on.

 

[timborama]

That comparison would make sense if a hamburger was an indispensable item in people's lives and if McDonald's was one out of two companies in the world making hamburgers.

Understanding the difference is crucial.

Hamburgers are indispensable for some people. Who are you to judge?! LOL

 

[InvertedGoldfish]

That to but. Capitalism with our regulation is inherent to fail. It’s well know and studied.

I don’t think so

Seems all the great failures were initiated by the state

 

[jlc1978]

This is more correct but to what end? The app isn't going to be better or cheaper. So what's the point of buying it through a different store? And before you say competition, with whom? It's the same product in a different store at the same price.

My guess is the main competing app stores will be the major players like Epic that want access to Apple's user base but not pay Apple to do so.

 

[j26]

Right. But you already admitted that going to another store was mostly due to the app either not being available on the Play Store or that the Play Store version didn't work as well (like with your DJI drone). You weren't going to other stores to get bargain prices relative to the Play Store.

Like I said, the EU isn't doing this because going to another store "works fine". They have always claimed it's a competitive issue. Also like I said, the EU has never provided any real world studies comparing pricing between the various "open" (Windows, Android, macOS) and "closed" (iOS, iPadOS, Xbox, Playstation, Switch) systems. IMO, they intentionally avoided doing that because they knew it wouldn't support any of their claims per consumers.

If you have a monopoly, it will behave in a monopolistic manner. If you have competition, there will be competition based on price, quality, or maybe something else, such as user experience. Monopoly is the least favoured market arrangement, unless it's a natural monopoly (economies of scale dictate that it needs to be a single supplier), as it leads to sub-optimal outcomes for the consumer, and excess profits for the monopolist.
This is first year classical microeconomics.

Within the market for iOS apps, Apple has a monopoly on the distribution of those apps.
Looking at it from the perspective of app developers, Apple is a gatekeeper and can prevent other app producers from even competing at all. At its heart, that is an anti-competitive market structure.

Every developed country has a Competition Authority or Mergers and Acquisitions Body or similar to promote competition and competitive markets, because monopoly is quite rightly regarded as a market failure, leading to higher prices and/or worse service. This is no different.

In the long run, this might help Apple - it's no longer under pressure to host all apps as it's no longer the only show in town. It can get very stringent on it's standards for apps, ensure only good quality apps make the App Store and say "Well if you want rubbish, go over there to that store..."