Apple Accused of Trapping 40 Million UK Customers Into iCloud Service

[I7guy]

It’s no different from me not being allowed to bring in my own food and drinks into a cinema or restaurant, or complaining that I still have to buy $60 games after splurging on an PS5 console. It’s all one package deal. If you don’t like being forced to have to use an Apple Watch or being forced to use only Siri with an iPhone, then don’t get an iPhone in the first place.

The pretzel logic in this thread is astounding. If you don’t like apples’ offerings than buy elsewhere.

 

[Krizoitz]

It is definitely not a backup.

You don’t even understand the definition of the word backup. That immediate disqualifies you.

You can throw in some technical terms, most of which don’t really have anything to do with the topic, and it doesn’t change anything.

Further every problem you cite applies equally to an offline backup.

Corrupted data? Data transfer errors? Those can and DO happen on local storage too. Far more often in fact.

You’ve seen problems happen with cloud backups? Congratulations all you have done is prove that it’s not 100% perfect, something I never claimed. In fact my entire argument has been that NEITHER system is perfect, just that cloud backup is demonstrably more reliable than local backup.

Meanwhile you continue to ignore the additional problems that a local backup faces, such as locality and lack of redundancy.

You cite having worked for a company that backs up data? Congrats. My experience is working on the cloud, specifically in cloud data storage. You are talking to someone with actual direct domain expertise.

Cloud backup is absolutely superior to a local physical backup. That you are even arguing that is just mind boggling.

 

[Krizoitz]

Another thought experiment: your house burns down with your only iPhone and iPad and Mac in it. How do you get access to your data? I’ve got an off site backup AND a yubikey stored elsewhere. What have you got?

Well aside from the fact my iPhone is always on me so it wouldn’t burn down, I’ve memorized my user name and password for iCloud. All I need to access my data is to buy and setup a new device. Or sign in on another device.

Well not really since I have 2-factor auth turned on. For that I have set up multiple trusted devices. Mostly my own but just in case your extremely unlikely but still possible scenario occurs, one belongs to one of my parents, who live on a different continent. The odds that both they AND I lose access to our devices at the same time is essentially zero.

And even if that basically impossible scenario were to happen (for the record I never bring all my trusted devices when I visit them) Apple has multiple other account recovery options possible.

Meanwhile your physical offline backup is likely to burn down in the house fire along with your trusted devices. Good job.

 

[FlyingDutch]

There's another option, as consumers we can lobby our politicians to force them to fix it.

There is nothing to be fixed there. I don’t want Apple ecosystem to become anything like the Android mess. But I like people to have an option to buy something else.

 

[FlyingDutch]

It is an apt argument. You cannot backup your text messages to a 3rd party cloud service of your choosing. The only option is either offline or iCloud and if you've used up the free 5GB allotment Apple gives you, you need to buy more iCloud storage.

Spare me the buy android inane retort.


You don't see the irony of your argument? That is literally the argument they are making. Apple does not give you an option to use another service with the hardware that you purchased. They are locking you into buying their cloud service.

There are options. And you can make an offline backup and store it on the cloud service you like the most.
It’s not just a well integrated option like iCloud. And this is exactly the reason why I buy in the Apple ecosystem.
You don’t like it ? Good for you, but an Android.

I believe the politicians should start by fixing themselves, and it will take a while. Before they are good to fix anything else. A bipartisan take.

I strongly believe politicians should fix more important things right now.

It’s no different from me not being allowed to bring in my own food and drinks into a cinema or restaurant, or complaining that I still have to buy $60 games after splurging on an PS5 console. It’s all one package deal. If you don’t like being forced to have to use an Apple Watch or being forced to use only Siri with an iPhone, then don’t get an iPhone in the first place.

This ☝🏻
I’m a very long time Apple user and I’m really tired of people complaining about Apple philosophy. If you don’t like it, don’t buy it. Is that easy.
I don’t want iOS became Android just to please some.

 

[robvalentine]

The amount of Apple employees/lobyists in here is highly amusing. Who thought choice, and being able to use your hardware as you wish is a bad thing.

The cinema analogy fails, as a mobile phone is not someone else's premises, it's a device I own.

 

[robvalentine]

you arent tied to anything. what dont you get?

does google allow a side-load of your data to icloud??? why not??? lawsuit!!!

silly silly people

I can't back up photos, data etc as easily to the cheaper google drive, and I can't do a restorable backup to google drive/NAS.

The only silly people here are the ones campaigning for less choice, and Apple's monopoly. If you don't want to back up to anything other than iCloud then that's up to you. Let others have a choice.

 

[surferfb]

I can't back up photos, data etc as easily to the cheaper google drive, and I can't do a restorable backup to google drive/NAS.

The only silly people here are the ones campaigning for less choice, and Apple's monopoly. If you don't want to back up to anything other than iCloud then that's up to you. Let others have a choice.

Apple does not have a monopoly. Words have meaning.

If you want to backup to Google drive there are hundreds of Android phones that you can use instead of trying to force a company to change their policies and have them write code they clearly don’t want to write to appease like 50 power users who post on macrumors.

 

[FlyingDutch]

I can't back up photos, data etc as easily to the cheaper google drive, and I can't do a restorable backup to google drive/NAS.

The only silly people here are the ones campaigning for less choice, and Apple's monopoly. If you don't want to back up to anything other than iCloud then that's up to you. Let others have a choice.

Google… google… google… if you care so much about Google services (where YOU are the product), the solution is just to buy an Android phone. Even better: buy a Pixel. Every Google service is integrated and ready, with some bonuses.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

I can't back up photos, data etc as easily to the cheaper google drive, and I can't do a restorable backup to google drive/NAS.

The only silly people here are the ones campaigning for less choice, and Apple's monopoly. If you don't want to back up to anything other than iCloud then that's up to you. Let others have a choice.

No true. You can have all your photos automatically in google photos. And you can store all your files in google drive. Only thing you don’t have (without third party tools) is an easy way to transfer it back into the Apple domain. Hmm ho wait a minute shouldn’t google organize that?

 

[I7guy]

The amount of Apple employees/lobyists in here is highly amusing. Who thought choice, and being able to use your hardware as you wish is a bad thing.

The cinema analogy fails, as a mobile phone is not someone else's premises, it's a device I own.

Nobody is claiming to stop you from doing what you want with your device. But if it didn’t do exactly what you want apple is not obligated to implement your feature request.

 

[Tago]

Nobody is claiming to stop you from doing what you want with your device. But if it didn’t do exactly what you want apple is not obligated to implement your feature request.

No point trying to present rational arguments of any kind to that kind of argumentation. I just hacked off "ignore" and pray the favor is returned.

 

[I7guy]

No point trying to present rational arguments of any kind to that kind of argumentation. I just hacked off "ignore" and pray the favor is returned.

Thank you for a logical, thoughtful and complex analysis of the dynamics of large corporations with their customers.

/s

 

[Jim Lahey]

Coming soon. BMW sued for not offering Volkswagen interiors 🤦‍♂️

End of the day this is all part of the ongoing attack on big tech designed to make them so weak they hand over the keys to the castle - dragnet user telemetry and at-source censorship.

 

[Tago]

Thank you for a logical, thoughtful and complex analysis of the dynamics of large corporations with their customers.

/s

An army of pipettees have already provided more than sufficient info in relation to the core of the issue, and you believe it will be better understood if you brought in the transcript equivalent of a full debate in the General Assembly of the United Nations?

The basic issue is being used as a straw man for bickering.

 

[I7guy]

An army of pipettees have already provided more than sufficient info in relation to the core of the issue, and you believe it will be better understood if you brought in the transcript equivalent of a full debate in the General Assembly of the United Nations?

The basic issue is being used as a straw man for bickering.

The basic issue is that people feel the need to dump on apple because there are functions and / or features that people would like to see implemented but apple hasn’t for whatever reason.

In some instances this escalates into hyperbole; which throws rational and cogent discussion out the window. The displeasure is so apparent one wonders why a person continues to stay with apple products and services. And in these cases yes a suitable reply is warranted. And what we may deem suitable is a line in the sand.

The way the forum title is phrased is a little clickbaity. However it’s one thing to launch a lawsuit and another thing to win or get a settlement.

Good luck to the plaintiffs I wish them a lot of luck. In the meantime I’ll grab popcorn.

 

[Krizoitz]

There's another option, as consumers we can lobby our politicians to force them to fix it.

Fix what? There is nothing to be fixed. Apple offers a service, you can choose to use it or not use it. A paid iCloud account is not required to use an iPhone. You can back up your data to numerous services of your choice. Yes the service that Apple
offers is a very convenient option, that’s the point of choosing an integrated service. The vast majority of people who buy an iPhone do so BECAUSE of the benefits of vertical integration. If you don’t like that you can either buy an iPhone and use something else ir buy an Android and use something else. Forcing Apple to dumb down its services so other competitors don’t look so bad is horrible for the consumer. Why should
Apple be forced to do that when it was Apple who spent the vast sums of money, time, and other resources to make the iPhone so useful in the first place?

Aside from the fact that Apple does not now nor never has had a monopoly on smartphones, if the EU is so concerned about customer choice, why not incentivize a European company to build a competing device.

 

[Krizoitz]

You don't see the irony of your argument? That is literally the argument they are making. Apple does not give you an option to use another service with the hardware that you purchased. They are locking you into buying their cloud service.

First this is patently false. There are many alternatives to iCloud where you can backup your data.

Or you can backup your phone to your computer and then store that wherever you want.

Second, even if it was true, so what? When I buy a PlayStation if I want to use it online I need to use the PlayStation Network. Same with the Switch and the Nintendo Online Service. Or the XBox and whatever Microsoft is calling their service these days. The device and the online service are integrated. They tell you upfront, and you as the consumer choose which ones you want. You made your choice when you CHOSE to by an iPhone rather than an Android phone, or any other alternative (there are a handful of smaller options, most open source).

Apple and Google offer two very different models of how smartphone OS’s should work for consumers to choose from. That’s good. That’s choice.

The EU is trying to take away that choice. They are trying to force a single model on everyone. That’s bad. That’s no choice.

 

[Krizoitz]

Who thought choice, and being able to use your hardware as you wish is a bad thing.

You have a choice, buy whichever phone OS you prefer. Google and Apple offer two very different options.

And you can use your hardware however you want.

First, you aren’t forced to use iCloud to begin with.

Second, Apple should not be compelled to help you use your hardware in a way they aren’t interested in supporting.

If I buy a standard sedan and want to make it amphibious or all-terrain that’s on me. Toyota and Ford shouldn’t be forced to include that feature in every model.

Life is full of tradeoffs. Just because you WANT something doesn’t mean you should get it. Nor does it mean someone should be forced to give it to you.

Third, you act as if these changes are free and don’t affect other people. Apple being forced to devote time and people and resources to supporting features they don’t even want to is bad for most of its users who prefer the current way things work. It introduces more bugs. It increases the complexity of using the iPhone. It weakens security. And it prevents Apple from using that time and those people and resources on OTHER iOS and iPhone improvements that the rest of us would prefer.

Integration is why most of us chose iPhone in the first place. The way that it’s all integrated IS a choice. You want to take that choice away from us because there is no way for you to get what you want without negatively impacting the experience for the rest of us. Without taking away OUR choice.

Why should the majority of users who actively prefer the current way things work be forced to lose the choice we made just so a handful of people like you can have what you want?

 

[erihp]

I can't back up photos, data etc as easily to the cheaper google drive, and I can't do a restorable backup to google drive/NAS.

The only silly people here are the ones campaigning for less choice, and Apple's monopoly. If you don't want to back up to anything other than iCloud then that's up to you. Let others have a choice.

yes you can. you just dont know how.

many many people backup photos, files, documents, and device backups on any 'cloud' or local disk they want to. and yes the device backups are fully restorable.

again not sure what is so hard to understand.

Lets flip it around. as an android (or blackberry or whatever) user, can i do any of that stuff you mentioned from an android phone directly to Apple's iCloud? The answer is no.

No? Well, thats it, I'm suing Google!!! Get real people.

 

[Lizzard899]

5GB of free storage is a bloody joke considering pretty much the majority of Apple’s devices have more RAM than that!

May as well be zero free storage at this point considering how useful that is. Considering the high prices Apple charges, the absolute bare minimum should be at least 50GB by now.

Yea I actually just downgraded from 2TB to 50gb....I think it goes into effect today Im not sure. It says after my billing cycle was done. We'll see what happens

 

[Lizzard899]

If Apple brings back "My Photo Stream" as a result, that would be good. Syncing photos from iPhone to devices without using iCloud is a real PITA. Apart from that, it's pretty easy to manage user data without paying for iCloud.

And I don't see that it's difficult to use other cloud services instead.

I would love to have 0 photos on my phone but I only have 1 and its my wallpaper. Im afraid to delete the photo from the photo app because then it might delete it as a wallpaper. Dont wanna take the risk

 

[Lizzard899]

I don’t think any of my phone backups have ever been more than a few gigs.
photos messages etc. You don’t need to back up whole apps, just redownload them.
Met up with a friend the other day I hadn’t seen in years. They pay the 99 cents, but then couldn’t figure out why their phone won’t back up. They have 47+ gigs of photos. But they don’t want to pay for the 200 gig upgrade. I told them to back up to their computer then.

Yea I think theres a bug in the ios 18 that is making my icloud storage bigger than it actually is. Its like the number isn't collabrating properly. Like it says the wrong number. If that makes sense. Im sure theyll fix it at some point down the road. Usually they never fix serious bugs for like a yr or more, at least thats been my experience.

 

[SMH4KIDIOT]

Ah, but you included the physical backup option. Why doesn't this matter to you? It basically nullifies the argument I think you're making. That there are no options. There are options. You can choose a physical backup. You could even then store that physical backup on a different cloud system than iCloud.

Physical backups just aren't a thing for tons of people anymore. Most folks these days basically live on their phones and barely touch computers. Like, when was the last time I actually plugged my phone into my PC? Can't even remember. Everything just automatically backs up to the cloud now. I've tried backing up my phone on a Windows PC and it's an incredibly crappy process thanks to Apple.

And why does Apple even owe you the service of 5GB free? They don't. That you and others think you are owed this shows the vast chasm between your and my understanding of the issue.

Apple's not doing me any favors with that 5GB free storage, it's just part of what comes with buying their hardware and software. It's 2024 and 5GB barely covers your text messages nowadays with all the photos and videos we share. They might as well drop the tiny free storage altogether and just let us use whatever cloud storage we want. I mean, I've already got tons of free storage elsewhere - 1TB on Terabox, 40GB on OneDrive, 20GB each on Google One and Mega. Plenty of options ready to go. Apple's iCloud is actually running on Google's cloud infrastructure anyway!

Why? That's how markets work. You make choices based on tradeoffs. There's no Government solution that can save you from having to make choices based on tradeoffs. Government solutions are massive choices based on tradeoffs.

The government also regulates the market, that's also how the market works.

First, it's not Apple's job to give you third-party alternatives. But there are a number of solutions for backing up your iphone. Ignoring them doesn't go away. You and others just seemingly want iCloud to be a free service. But you've not provided a business-based justification for forcing Apple to give this to you for free. Or that Apple should be forced to develop this for a third-party vendor.

Of course, it's Apple's responsibility as a computing platform owner to give users actual choices. There's a reason all these tech giants, Microsoft, Apple, Google are fined billions for their anti-competitive behavior. When are you going to get that? Just because you're happy licking Apple's boots doesn't mean the rest of us should put up with their BS restrictions and control.

I believe the politicians should start by fixing themselves, and it will take a while. Before they are good to fix anything else. A bipartisan take.

It's not rocket science; we can absolutely tackle multiple problems at once. Yeah, we can hold our politicians' feet to the fire for letting tech companies run wild all these years, and it's about time we flex our consumer power by slapping some serious regulations on these corporations. Time to regulate the 💩 out of them.

Should we lobby to force Tesla to offer CarPlay/Android Auto? Google search to allow you to use DuckDuckGo on the backend?

What a ridiculous comparison. I can use any search engine I want, DuckDuckGo, Google, Bing, Yahoo, Yandex, etc from any platform. Tesla's just a car company with their own infotainment system, not a computing platform. And there are literally hundreds of EV options out there. But with mobile platforms? We're stuck with just two choices. Use your head, a duopoly isn't real choice at all.

Citation that Apple mines your data just as much as Google does. And then sells advertising against the data it mines.

Your entire life lives on Apple's servers. Your documents, your medical records, passwords, banking, messages, photos. Apple has your entire existence on their servers.

Personal Data Apple Collects from You​

At Apple, we believe that you can have great products and great privacy. This means that we strive to collect only the personal data that we need. The personal data Apple collects depends on how you interact with Apple. Descriptions of how Apple handles personal data for certain individual services are available at apple.com/legal/privacy/data.
When you create an Apple Account, apply for commercial credit, purchase and/or activate a product or device, download a software update, register for a class at an Apple Store, connect to our services, contact us (including by social media), participate in an online survey, or otherwise interact with Apple, we may collect a variety of information, including:

• Account Information. Your Apple Account and related account details, including email address, devices registered, account status, and age
• Device Information. Data from which your device could be identified, such as device serial number, or about your device, such as browser type
• Contact Information. Data such as name, email address, physical address, phone number, or other contact information
• Payment Information. Data about your billing address and method of payment, such as bank details, credit, debit, or other payment card information
• Transaction Information. Data about purchases of Apple products and services or transactions facilitated by Apple, including purchases on Apple platforms
• Fraud Prevention Information. Data used to help identify and prevent fraud, including a device trust score
• Usage Data. Data about your activity on and use of our offerings, such as app launches within our services, including browsing history; search history; product interaction; crash data, performance and other diagnostic data; and other usage data
• Location Information. Precise location only to support services such as Find My or where you agree for region-specific services, and coarse location
• Health Information. Data relating to the health status of an individual, including data related to one’s physical or mental health or condition. Personal health data also includes data that can be used to make inferences about or detect the health status of an individual. If you participate in a study using an Apple Health Research Study app, the policy governing the privacy of your personal data is described in the Apple Health Study Apps Privacy Policy.
• Fitness Information. Details relating to your fitness and exercise information where you choose to share them
• Financial Information. Details including salary, income, and assets information where collected, and information related to Apple-branded financial offerings
• Government ID Data. In certain jurisdictions, we may ask for a government-issued ID in limited circumstances, including when setting up a wireless account and activating your device, for the purpose of extending commercial credit, managing reservations, or as required by law
• Other Information You Provide to Us. Details such as the content of your communications with Apple, including interactions with customer support and contacts through social media channels

Personal Data Apple Receives from Other Sources​

Apple may receive personal data about you from other individuals, from businesses or third parties acting at your direction, from our partners who work with us to provide our products and services and assist us in security and fraud prevention, and from other lawful sources.

• Individuals. Apple may collect data about you from other individuals — for example, if that individual has sent you a product or gift card, invited you to participate in an Apple service or forum, or shared content with you.
• At Your Direction. You may direct other individuals or third parties to share data with Apple. For example, you may direct your mobile carrier to share data about your carrier account with Apple for account activation, or for your loyalty program to share information about your participation so that you can earn rewards for Apple purchases.
• Apple Partners. We may also validate the information you provide — for example, when creating an Apple Account, with a third party for security, and for fraud-prevention purposes.

Apple’s Sharing of Personal Data​

Apple may share personal data with Apple-affiliated companies, service providers who act on our behalf, our partners, developers, and publishers, or others at your direction. Further, Apple does not share personal data with third parties for their own marketing purposes.

• Service Providers. Apple may engage third parties to act as our service providers and perform certain tasks on our behalf, such as processing or storing data, including personal data, in connection with your use of our services and delivering products to customers. Apple service providers are obligated to handle personal data consistent with this Privacy Policy and according to our instructions. They cannot use the personal data we share for their own purposes and must delete or return the personal data once they’ve fulfilled our request.
• Partners. At times, Apple may partner with third parties to provide services or other offerings. For example, Apple financial offerings like Apple Card and Apple Cash are offered by Apple and our partners. Apple requires its partners to protect your personal data.
• Developers and Publishers from Whom You Get a Subscription. If you purchase a third-party subscription from the App Store or within Apple News, we create a Subscriber ID that is unique to you and the developer or publisher. The Subscriber ID may be used to provide reports to the developer or publisher, which include information about the subscription you purchased and your country of residence. If you cancel all of your subscriptions from a particular developer or publisher, the Subscriber ID will reset after 180 days if you do not resubscribe. This information is provided to developers or publishers so that they can understand the performance of their subscriptions.
• Others. Apple may share personal data with others at your direction or with your consent, such as when we share information with your carrier to activate your account. We may also disclose information about you if we determine that for purposes of national security, law enforcement, or other issues of public importance, disclosure is necessary or appropriate. We may also disclose information about you where there is a lawful basis for doing so, if we determine that disclosure is reasonably necessary to enforce our terms and conditions or to protect our operations or users, or in the event of a reorganization, merger, or sale.

Apple does not sell your personal data including as “sale” is defined in Nevada and California. Apple also does not “share” your personal data as that term is defined in California.

Look, I wish Apple offered more space for free. But it’s their decision to make. Apple makes “premium” products and charges premium prices for them. Kind of like how maintenance on a BMW or Rolex is more expensive than a Honda or Seiko. If you don’t like it, there are plenty of other options.

Look, you are content with whatever Apple gives you and that's ok, but the rest of us are not, we demand more and better. If you are content, you can simply sit in the corner and enjoy your experience.

There is nothing to be fixed there. I don’t want Apple ecosystem to become anything like the Android mess. But I like people to have an option to buy something else.

Let me ask you something. Has Apple adding RCS changed anything about how you use your iPhone? Has Apple being forced to allow 3rd-party app stores affected your experience at all? No? Exactly, that's the whole point. Apple opening up their platform won't mess with your precious Apple experience one bit. You can keep using your device exactly how Apple wants you to, while the rest of us can finally customize our phones the way we want.

There are options. And you can make an offline backup and store it on the cloud service you like the most.
It’s not just a well integrated option like iCloud. And this is exactly the reason why I buy in the Apple ecosystem.
You don’t like it ? Good for you, but an Android.

That's just a ridiculous argument. Look, on iPhone I can already backup my calendar and contacts to whatever I want to Google, Yahoo, Microsoft, iCloud. I can save my photos to basically any cloud service out there. Right in the Files app, I can store my documents on tons of different cloud providers. Apple has no problem giving us options for all of that...

But when it comes to backing up my texts or my whole phone? Suddenly it's iCloud or nothing. If that free 5GB runs out, you're stuck either paying Apple or dealing with offline backups. They're literally forcing us to use their cloud storage for texts and phone backups while they let us use whatever we want for everything else.

I strongly believe politicians should fix more important things right now.

I strongly believe humans can chew gum and run at the same time. Magical

This ☝🏻
I’m a very long time Apple user and I’m really tired of people complaining about Apple philosophy. If you don’t like it, don’t buy it. Is that easy.
I don’t want iOS became Android just to please some.

Use your Apple device as Apple wants you to. Apple is not your friend, and making the brand a part of your personality doesn’t benefit anyone. My call for better standards from Apple isn’t directed at you personally. You can ignore everything, including the changes Apple has been compelled to make in the past two years, and your life will remain unaffected. However, i want better options.

Fix what? There is nothing to be fixed. Apple offers a service, you can choose to use it or not use it. A paid iCloud account is not required to use an iPhone. You can back up your data to numerous services of your choice. Yes the service that Apple
offers is a very convenient option, that’s the point of choosing an integrated service. The vast majority of people who buy an iPhone do so BECAUSE of the benefits of vertical integration. If you don’t like that you can either buy an iPhone and use something else ir buy an Android and use something else. Forcing Apple to dumb down its services so other competitors don’t look so bad is horrible for the consumer. Why should
Apple be forced to do that when it was Apple who spent the vast sums of money, time, and other resources to make the iPhone so useful in the first place?

Aside from the fact that Apple does not now nor never has had a monopoly on smartphones, if the EU is so concerned about customer choice, why not incentivize a European company to build a competing device.

You are living in a fantasy world where corporations have your best interest at heart instead of their billions in profit. Apple is complying with everything they are being told to by regulators while still making billions in profit.

First this is patently false. There are many alternatives to iCloud where you can backup your data.

If I go into settings to backup my phone or messages, I only see iCloud. So, who is false again?

Or you can backup your phone to your computer and then store that wherever you want.

Not an option for a lot of people. Or they can simply let me backup my device to whatever cloud provider I choose.

Second, even if it was true, so what? When I buy a PlayStation if I want to use it online I need to use the PlayStation Network. Same with the Switch and the Nintendo Online Service. Or the XBox and whatever Microsoft is calling their service these days. The device and the online service are integrated. They tell you upfront, and you as the consumer choose which ones you want. You made your choice when you CHOSE to by an iPhone rather than an Android phone, or any other alternative (there are a handful of smaller options, most open source).

The problem with many of you is that you react as if Apple is a parent being criticized for replacing you. Apple is not your friend. Build a genuine personality that isn’t tied to a brand logo.

Apple and Google offer two very different models of how smartphone OS’s should work for consumers to choose from. That’s good. That’s choice.

Really? Are you talking about Apple the company that just now allowed you to edit your home screen and place icons anywhere just like Android? A duopoly is a false choice.

The EU is trying to take away that choice. They are trying to force a single model on everyone. That’s bad. That’s no choice.

That argument doesn’t make sense. The EU isn’t forcing you to do anything, you can continue using your iPhone exactly as you do now without any changes. Similarly, how I choose to use my iPhone doesn’t affect you. If I decide to delete the App Store and install an alternative store, it won’t impact you. If I choose to use a third-party default browser, that still won’t affect you.

 

[erihp]

There are plenty of people for whom physical backup is out of the question. For a lot of people, mobile computing is their only form of computing, people spend more time on their phone than they do a standalone PC. I can't even remember the last time I hooked up my phone to my PC. Everything is seamlessly backed up online. I've tried to back up my phone on a windows PC and it is an incredibly ****** process thanks to Apple.

Apple does not owe me 5GB free storage, they are offering it to me as part of the software/hardware purchase. The issue is in the year 2024, 5GB is not enough to backup text messages with how much photos and video we share. They can simply remove their measly 5GB free storage and allow me to use 1 of many other cloud storages I already have. Between 1TB on Terabox, 40GB on One Drive, 20GB on Google One, 20GB on Mega (all free) I have plenty of alternatives ready to take its place. Your iCloud storage resides on Google cloud.

The government also regulates the market, that's also how the market works.

Yes, it is Apple's job as a computing platform holder to give user options. Microsoft was fined billions, Apple was fined billions, Google was fined billions. When are you going to understand that? Just because you are content with polishing Apple's boot does not mean the rest of us have to take whatever BS they are trying to pull.

Its almost as if we can do multiple things at the same time. We can hold our politicians accountable, for years they have let tech companies have their way and now its time to take back out consumer power by regulating the ever living 💩 out of these corporations.

That's an inane retort if I ever saw one. I can use DDgo, google, bing, yahoo, yandex search from any platform I choose. Tesla is not a computing platform, it's a vehicle with their infotainment system. There are literally hundreds of electric cars I choose from, there are only 2 mobile platforms I can choose from. Use your brain, a duopoly is a false choice.

Your entire life lives on Apple's servers. Your documents, your medical records, passwords, banking, messages, photos. Apple has your entire existence on their servers.

Personal Data Apple Collects from You​

At Apple, we believe that you can have great products and great privacy. This means that we strive to collect only the personal data that we need. The personal data Apple collects depends on how you interact with Apple. Descriptions of how Apple handles personal data for certain individual services are available at apple.com/legal/privacy/data.
When you create an Apple Account, apply for commercial credit, purchase and/or activate a product or device, download a software update, register for a class at an Apple Store, connect to our services, contact us (including by social media), participate in an online survey, or otherwise interact with Apple, we may collect a variety of information, including:

• Account Information. Your Apple Account and related account details, including email address, devices registered, account status, and age
• Device Information. Data from which your device could be identified, such as device serial number, or about your device, such as browser type
• Contact Information. Data such as name, email address, physical address, phone number, or other contact information
• Payment Information. Data about your billing address and method of payment, such as bank details, credit, debit, or other payment card information
• Transaction Information. Data about purchases of Apple products and services or transactions facilitated by Apple, including purchases on Apple platforms
• Fraud Prevention Information. Data used to help identify and prevent fraud, including a device trust score
• Usage Data. Data about your activity on and use of our offerings, such as app launches within our services, including browsing history; search history; product interaction; crash data, performance and other diagnostic data; and other usage data
• Location Information. Precise location only to support services such as Find My or where you agree for region-specific services, and coarse location
• Health Information. Data relating to the health status of an individual, including data related to one’s physical or mental health or condition. Personal health data also includes data that can be used to make inferences about or detect the health status of an individual. If you participate in a study using an Apple Health Research Study app, the policy governing the privacy of your personal data is described in the Apple Health Study Apps Privacy Policy.
• Fitness Information. Details relating to your fitness and exercise information where you choose to share them
• Financial Information. Details including salary, income, and assets information where collected, and information related to Apple-branded financial offerings
• Government ID Data. In certain jurisdictions, we may ask for a government-issued ID in limited circumstances, including when setting up a wireless account and activating your device, for the purpose of extending commercial credit, managing reservations, or as required by law
• Other Information You Provide to Us. Details such as the content of your communications with Apple, including interactions with customer support and contacts through social media channels

Personal Data Apple Receives from Other Sources​

Apple may receive personal data about you from other individuals, from businesses or third parties acting at your direction, from our partners who work with us to provide our products and services and assist us in security and fraud prevention, and from other lawful sources.

• Individuals. Apple may collect data about you from other individuals — for example, if that individual has sent you a product or gift card, invited you to participate in an Apple service or forum, or shared content with you.
• At Your Direction. You may direct other individuals or third parties to share data with Apple. For example, you may direct your mobile carrier to share data about your carrier account with Apple for account activation, or for your loyalty program to share information about your participation so that you can earn rewards for Apple purchases.
• Apple Partners. We may also validate the information you provide — for example, when creating an Apple Account, with a third party for security, and for fraud-prevention purposes.

Apple’s Sharing of Personal Data​

Apple may share personal data with Apple-affiliated companies, service providers who act on our behalf, our partners, developers, and publishers, or others at your direction. Further, Apple does not share personal data with third parties for their own marketing purposes.

• Service Providers. Apple may engage third parties to act as our service providers and perform certain tasks on our behalf, such as processing or storing data, including personal data, in connection with your use of our services and delivering products to customers. Apple service providers are obligated to handle personal data consistent with this Privacy Policy and according to our instructions. They cannot use the personal data we share for their own purposes and must delete or return the personal data once they’ve fulfilled our request.
• Partners. At times, Apple may partner with third parties to provide services or other offerings. For example, Apple financial offerings like Apple Card and Apple Cash are offered by Apple and our partners. Apple requires its partners to protect your personal data.
• Developers and Publishers from Whom You Get a Subscription. If you purchase a third-party subscription from the App Store or within Apple News, we create a Subscriber ID that is unique to you and the developer or publisher. The Subscriber ID may be used to provide reports to the developer or publisher, which include information about the subscription you purchased and your country of residence. If you cancel all of your subscriptions from a particular developer or publisher, the Subscriber ID will reset after 180 days if you do not resubscribe. This information is provided to developers or publishers so that they can understand the performance of their subscriptions.
• Others. Apple may share personal data with others at your direction or with your consent, such as when we share information with your carrier to activate your account. We may also disclose information about you if we determine that for purposes of national security, law enforcement, or other issues of public importance, disclosure is necessary or appropriate. We may also disclose information about you where there is a lawful basis for doing so, if we determine that disclosure is reasonably necessary to enforce our terms and conditions or to protect our operations or users, or in the event of a reorganization, merger, or sale.

Apple does not sell your personal data including as “sale” is defined in Nevada and California. Apple also does not “share” your personal data as that term is defined in California.



Look, you are content with whatever Apple gives you and that's ok, but the rest of us are not, we demand more and better. If you are content, you can simply sit in the corner and enjoy your experience.

Tell me, how has Apple being forced to add RCS made your experience any different? How has Apple being forced to allow 3rd party Appstore changed your experience? It has not? Thats the point, Apple being forced to open things up will not change your experience. Use your device as Apple intends for you to use it, while the rest of us can customize it to our liking.

That's just a silly argument. On iPhone, I can backup my calendar and contacts to Google, Yahoo, Microsoft, iCloud. I can backup my photos to pretty much any cloud service i want. Right there in Apple Files app, i can backup my documents to several 3rd party cloud storage providers. Apple gives you the option to do all those things....

But if I want to backup my text, or my phone I can only do that on iCloud, if your free 5GB is not enough you are forced to buy more or use offline. They are literally forcing you to use their own cloud storage to backup your texts and phone when they give you options to backup pretty much everything else on 3rd party.

I strongly believe humans can chew gum and run at the same time. Magical

Stop talking and use your Apple device just like Apple intended. Apple is not your friend, stop making the Apple brand your personality. Me demanding better from Apple is not me demanding anything from you. You can simply ignore everything, and changes Apple has been forced to make in the past 2 years and your life will remain the same.

You are living in a fantasy world where corporations have your best interest at heart instead of their billions in profit. Apple is complying with everything they are being told to by regulators while still making billions in profit.

If I go into settings to backup my phone or messages, I only see iCloud. So, who is false again?

Not an option for a lot of people. Or they can simply let me backup my device to whatever cloud provider I choose.

That's the problem with a lot of you, you act like Apple is your Mom being told to replace you. Apple is not your friend, form an actual genuine personality outside of a brand logo.

Really? Are you talking about Apple the company that just now allowed you to edit your home screen and place icons anywhere just like Android? A duopoly is a false choice.

Thats an inane argument. The EU is not forcing you to do anything, you can use your iPhone exactly as you do now, nothing affects you. I can use my iPhone however I want and that still does not affect you. I can choose to delete App store and install alt store and that still won't affect you. I can choose to use a 3rd party default browser and that won't affect you.

i didnt read all of that.

does google allow android devices to natively backup to icloud?

this is stupid