Apple Cancels Electric Car Project

[AlumaMac]

A bit of exaggeration? 🤔 Maybe could have been over $300 if you took an old pickup truck? $3.21 /gal x 1100 miles / 15 mpg = $240.
In a model year 2000 car (EPA average 28 mpg) this trip is $3.21 / gal x 1100 miles / 28 mpg = $127.
Guess it depends on what your fuel prices are. Today's AAA nationwide average price is $3.21/gal.
So easily UNDER $300.

Also he claims his charging stops only added 30-40 minutes to the total travel time yet he would of stopped at least 4 times for an 1,100 mile trip @270 miles per leg. Claims each stop was 25 minutes so he actually spent 1hr 40 minutes standing around eating snacks.

 

[Razorpit]

so all you have to say is to watch some person on YouTube, sure, it's on YouTube so must be right. whatever ...

😂 You need a summary of the videos? Just take 15-20 minutes and watch them. What issues do you have with what is being reported? “Whatever” is short for, “He’s right, and I can’t bring myself to admit it.”

 

[neilw]

Phantom braking hasn't been an issue since they moved from radar. The radar readings would occasionally disagree with the vision readings, causing braking. It hasn't been an issue in years.

Can't tell if this is supposed to be satire.

Bad weather and morning sun glare routinely interfere with the cameras and disable Navigate on Autopilot on my Model 3. I've long been wondering how a camera-only FSD handles it.

In any case, the firehose of data from its deployed fleet is definitely an advantage for Tesla in developing FSD. I don't think you can pin the cancellation of Titan on that though.

 

[forced-to-have-a-username]

That's because everytime they updated carOS:

• the UI changed,
• The dash display would suffer from jelly scrolling
• the car would turn off when you got a Telugu text,
• carOS would have to index for 2 days before you got full performance again
• The car would shut down with 30% battery remaining
• the HVAC would get the temperature wrong and blow hot air
• the battery would drain too fast for whatever reason

On a positive note: Safari got snappier with every update

:ducking and running from an angry mob with pitchforks and torches:

at least you realised yourself what you just said. for that very reason I'll ditch the pitchfork / torch. this time.

 

[Beautyspin]

Samsung showed Apple exactly how it's done: Let the car companies do it.

Renault Korea - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Does Apple know about this? I think they should be given a headsup.

 

[tYNS]

This company is a wreck. They should have been focussing on software all along for the last 13 years. New programs and adding to the arsenal of productivity packages. They saw MS/google buying up all these AI companies over a decade ago... Why is it just now they are getting to the game. All they have done over the last decade is cancel all their server products, coasted on iWork and final cut. Butchered iLife products to the point they are barely functional and cryptic to use. It's a mess. Their hardware division is just blindly grasping at cliche markets. Tim Cook ruined the computer division by building glued together short lived and under spec'ed boxes. There is no Pro in apple any more. Only a niche fashion focussed status symbol sold by an image created by the jobs era. They streamline their products by dumping mass produced cell phone processors into everything. 30 years of using apple products and I am obligated to move to windows now. The options are far more vast and the price/expandability/serviceability is unbeatable. No one cares that your processor saves energy. It runs slower and when work needs to get done and billed quickly, the pc rules that territory now.

 

[hagar]

You seem to be under the impression that there is enough materials on earth to increase the production of battery powered vehicles x20. Read the reports… there’s not. There is no “moving on” until you have an alternative.

Even if by some miracle found enough raw materials to extract for the entire U.S., E.U. Canada and Japanese markets, it would be offset by India, China, Africa and S.E. Asia and the increase in maritime, aviation and heavy freight.

Moreover, while the electric vehicle, once produced is quite a bit cleaner, the manufacturing process is significantly more carbon intensive than ICE vehicles.

And then there’s the biggest issue: there’s simply not enough energy. The only viable solution would be to immediately invest in nuclear energy, either by new modern plants, or modular nuclear. In the U.S. alone, you need 22 new plants just to keep up with demand, and it takes 20+ years to build a conventional plant. That’s if you can secure the funding and begin the work TODAY.

So you see, I have done my research, and it appears, you have not.

You bought into the myth there's not enough energy for EVs, but there are enough indicators stating that, thanks to the adoption of smart grids and progressively increasing sustainable electricity generation, this will not be an issue in the developed world.

Also, don't forget that producing 1 litre of fossil fuel requires 1,58 kWh of energy. Driving a fossil fuelled car for 100km and consuming 7 litres, will require 11kWh. That's enough for an EV to drive up to 80km. As a consequence, a million more electric cars on the roads will only require 3,6% more electricity.

 

[Surf Monkey]

You seem to be under the impression that there is enough materials on earth to increase the production of battery powered vehicles x20. Read the reports… there’s not. There is no “moving on” until you have an alternative.

Even if by some miracle found enough raw materials to extract for the entire U.S., E.U. Canada and Japanese markets, it would be offset by India, China, Africa and S.E. Asia and the increase in maritime, aviation and heavy freight.

Moreover, while the electric vehicle, once produced is quite a bit cleaner, the manufacturing process is significantly more carbon intensive than ICE vehicles.

And then there’s the biggest issue: there’s simply not enough energy. The only viable solution would be to immediately invest in nuclear energy, either by new modern plants, or modular nuclear. In the U.S. alone, you need 22 new plants just to keep up with demand, and it takes 20+ years to build a conventional plant. That’s if you can secure the funding and begin the work TODAY.

So you see, I have done my research, and it appears, you have not.

Some supporting evidence would be nice.

 

[hagar]

Maybe this has already been said somewhere in these replies, but in my opinion, maybe Apple is discontinuing their EV car project, possibly because the long-term market for EV's in general may not be as great as originally thought. I am not judging anybody who wants or purchases an EV, but in my case, I will not buy one for the foreseeable future, and I am sure not as h-- going to pay 100k for one (even if I had that kind of money to spend on a vehicle). Maybe Apple has determined that the market is not there at this time for another new high-end EV.

Don't forget EU has mandated that all cars must be electric by 2035. This will give a huge boost for car manufacturers to innovate and lower costs. Current EVs already have huge improvements in range and faster charging times. In 4-5 years, these issues will be completely resolved. So, don't be mistaken (or be confused by one particular political party that is heavily invested in oil): the future of cars is EV.

 

[IG88]

Don't forget EU has mandated that all cars must be electric by 2035.

Are they going to mandate away cold weather too lol?

 

[Surf Monkey]

Are they going to mandate away cold weather too lol?

Are companies going to stop developing EVs? What we see today is the end game?

“lol” indeed.

 

[Algr]

Are they going to mandate away cold weather too lol?

Funny how Chicago has this problem, and Norway doesn't.

 

[Algr]

So you see, I have done my research, and it appears, you have not.

If you had done your research, you would know that (renewables + storage) are cheaper than nuclear, and can be brought online much more quickly. There are plenty of batteries that don't need lithium; Sodium, Aluminum, hydrogen, and carbon nanotubes are all working in the lab. And once enough cars are on the road, in-road charging will make smaller batteries viable: The car will charge while it is on the highway, and will only need battery for side streets.

 

[IG88]

Are companies going to stop developing EVs? What we see today is the end game?

“lol” indeed.

LOL. They're STILL using lithium based cells that have been around in some form since 1974.

18650 -> 21700 is just a larger cell. Tesla's 4680, again, is just a larger cell. Sure, a modern 18650 cell has higher capacity than the early ones, but it's a dead end.

And charging a lithium based cell if the cell temp below 32F is a big NO. Again, this battery chemistry has been around since the 1970s.

And that the industry is STILL using them should tell you something.

 

[diamond.g]

Can't tell if this is supposed to be satire.

Bad weather and morning sun glare routinely interfere with the cameras and disable Navigate on Autopilot on my Model 3. I've long been wondering how a camera-only FSD handles it.

In any case, the firehose of data from its deployed fleet is definitely an advantage for Tesla in developing FSD. I don't think you can pin the cancellation of Titan on that though.

I've only ever had FSD force me to take over during bad weather once, though it will complain the weather is bad the whole trip. Unless you are on a really old FW every car is Vision only now.

Funny how Chicago has this problem, and Norway doesn't.

Charging before letting the car cold soak is ideal. Which Norway seems to get but the US has a problem with.

 

[diamond.g]

LOL. They're STILL using lithium based cells that have been around in some form since 1974.

18650 -> 21700 is just a larger cell. Tesla's 4680, again, is just a larger cell. Sure, a modern 18650 cell has higher capacity than the early ones, but it's a dead end.

And charging a lithium based cell if the cell temp below 32F is a big NO. Again, this battery chemistry has been around since the 1970s.

And that the industry is STILL using them should tell you something.

Lithium is commercially cheaper than all the others.

 

[IG88]

Funny how Chicago has this problem, and Norway doesn't.

"....the majority of people in Norway live in houses, not apartments, and that nearly 90% of EV owners have their own charging stations at home, Godbolt said for The New York Times."

Nice try though.

 

[IG88]

Charging before letting the car cold soak is ideal.

Explain how that helps apartment dwellers, that have their vehicle outside at home and at work?

This is the problem with moronic government mandates. The people making the mandates aren't the ones that have to suffer the consequences.

 

[Surf Monkey]

LOL. They're STILL using lithium based cells that have been around in some form since 1974.

Battery tech is advancing. Solid state batteries are on the cusp of reaching the market.

18650 -> 21700 is just a larger cell. Tesla's 4680, again, is just a larger cell. Sure, a modern 18650 cell has higher capacity than the early ones, but it's a dead end.

And? All the makers know that and are working on moving past current battery tech.

And charging a lithium based cell if the cell temp below 32F is a big NO. Again, this battery chemistry has been around since the 1970s.

See above.

And that the industry is STILL using them should tell you something.

See above.

My point stands. You think this is the end game for EV tech. It isn’t. Batteries may not get significantly smaller but they will get a lot easier to make and will use completely different tech than current EV batteries.

Toyota Reveals Solid-State EV Battery with 745-Mile Range, Cuts Emissions by 39%

Toyota says its solid-state battery offer 745 mile range and 10-minute charging time, and can cut the carbon emissions of EV batteries by 39%.

carboncredits.com

Solid-state batteries: inside the race to transform the science of electric vehicles

They promise more energy and a vastly improved range for EV drivers. But can they deliver on the hype?

www.theguardian.com

The new car batteries that could power the electric vehicle revolution

Researchers are experimenting with different designs that could lower costs, extend vehicle ranges and offer other improvements.

www.nature.com

Batteries News

Read the latest research on everything from new longer life batteries and batteries with viruses to a nano-size battery.

www.sciencedaily.com

Etc.

 

[lazyrighteye]

Why do they need to go bye bye?
Say more …

Hydrogen, yo. That's the next wave the auto industry is most interested in. Toyota has already developed a hydrogen combustion engine (aka: the holy grail). Its fuel is water. Its waste is steam. And it's powerful. This looks to usurp electric within the next decade - if not sooner. Way easier on the environment that all that goes into EVs.

 

[Regbial]

That's because everytime they updated carOS:

• the UI changed,
• The dash display would suffer from jelly scrolling
• the car would turn off when you got a Telugu text,
• carOS would have to index for 2 days before you got full performance again
• The car would shut down with 30% battery remaining
• the HVAC would get the temperature wrong and blow hot air
• the battery would drain too fast for whatever reason

On a positive note: Safari got snappier with every update

:ducking and running from an angry mob with pitchforks and torches:

lol... the "shut down with 30% battery remaining" particularly stings because that's what happens with my Apple Watch SE 💀 "battery health at 100%"

 

[diamond.g]

Explain how that helps apartment dwellers, that have their vehicle outside at home and at work?

This is the problem with moronic government mandates. The people making the mandates aren't the ones that have to suffer the consequences.

Charge before going home, while the battery is warm? Petition the apartment complex to add charging stalls to the parking lot? Petition the government to add outlets to street lights?

 

[jz0309]

Hydrogen, yo. That's the next wave the auto industry is most interested in. Toyota has already developed a hydrogen combustion engine (aka: the holy grail). Its fuel is water. Its waste is steam. And it's powerful. This looks to usurp electric within the next decade - if not sooner. Way easier on the environment that all that goes into EVs.

uh, no, that is not taking off, good concept though ... the Toyota Mira is only available in very select markets (eg some of Southern California) and Shell just recently closed all of their hydrogen stations in CA, so a big blow ...
potential is there, but no adoption ...

 

[Surf Monkey]

Hydrogen, yo. That's the next wave the auto industry is most interested in. Toyota has already developed a hydrogen combustion engine (aka: the holy grail). Its fuel is water. Its waste is steam. And it's powerful. This looks to usurp electric within the next decade - if not sooner. Way easier on the environment that all that goes into EVs.

I tend to agree. Hydrogen is a superior solution and current fuel stations can be easily retrofitted for it.

 

[Surf Monkey]

Charge before going home, while the battery is warm? Petition the apartment complex to add charging stalls to the parking lot? Petition the government to add outlets to street lights?

No. The solution is to have a second battery that powers a warmer for the main one when it’s charging.