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Batteries are a wear item so, if you swap, you have no idea of the battery condition and how far you can travel on it.

The batteries are also very heavy and take up a lot of space. Vehicles would have to be redesigned for battery swaps, the swap center would need a place to safely store the batteries, you would need some way of putting the battery in the car. and batteries lose charge when they are sitting.

Also, how many batteries should the swap center keep in stock and how are they expected to charge all the batteries they get back ?

Lastly, the batteries are very expensive and a swap center would never be able to afford the batteries that are needed.

Swapping batteries might sound like a good idea but it's a bad idea.
If only you could fill the batteries with some kind of liquid that stored the energy....
 
And I will ask on the same ICE powered trip how much time is used doing he same.

For me personally a stop for gas, bio etc is going to be 20-30 mins easy. I stop at say a bucees to get gas it is 5 mins to get gas, 15-20 mins in the store and about few mins of walking time.

When you get gas you spend 15-20 mins in the store? Each time? You do you, but when I get gas I fill up and get back on the road, 8 minutes tops which could include a bathroom break.
 

EVs are indeed a big lie. EVs are soon discontinued and forgotten.
Petrol/diesel refuel time: 0 to 60 seconds. EVs charging time: Hours to some days.
Nah, not discontinued. But we will have a mix of both for our lifetimes I would imagine. No way I see the mandates that all vehicles be electric by a certain year standing.
 
When you get gas you spend 15-20 mins in the store? Each time? You do you, but when I get gas I fill up and get back in the road, 8 minutes tops which could include a bathroom break.
I use bucee as that tends to be the bigger stop were I also am grabbing a little food plus it is huge place.

I know when I was younger making the 10 hour drive more often I had 2 stops that were a little longer as it was food, snack buying and so on.

Now if you have little kids then the total time added might be zero as the kids tend to be a limiting factor.


Hence why I was pointing out in 1100 mile 30-40 min longer is not that much more insane. Yes it is slower but pointing out it is not the massive gap people make it out to be for anything but the true road warriors.

People scream about the 5 mins and go but that is for your weekly gas stop in your car not road trip stopping. Road trip stopping tends to be a slower thing as you are able to double up charging and other items.
Getting gas on a road trip there is no doubling up things. It is get gas, then take care of other needs instead of all of them happening at the same time.
 
They bought an electric truck. Their home is off the grid, in north Idaho!


They never even mention the environment, they just do what works. This is what intelegent, practical people look like. A nation ruled by whiners will fail.

(Note: They should have mentioned in the beginning, that that truck has a bigger battery then their house.)
 
Has anyone done the math on how many public chargers would be needed if ALL cars were electric?

Like on a busy travel day when people are trying to drive long distances?

I haven't, but it seems like a lot.

Pumping gas takes like 5 minutes, so if charging requires anywhere from 6-10 times longer, it seems like we would need 6-10 times as many charging stations as we have gas pumps now.
I dont have the link off hand but they have done the math on it.
Turns out you need fewer charging sites than gas stations. Like 1/4-1/3 the total number of gas stations.

Remember our gas station network is built off the fact that is the only way for people to refill so we know everyone even living in the area has to go there. On EVs this is reduce to only people traveling long distance as a majority will be charging at home.
Now if you move over to public charging for road trips you will need to make quite a few huge sites with 100+ chargers on it but reality a lot fewer than gas stations. It might be several 20-30 stations sites place around and then a place like say buccess building a 200 charging stations. Hardest part is getting the site loading right and a way to handle some power demand spikes. Dont get me wrong it will a huge amount of power going there to handle it but it is not as base as you think.
 
I find it hard to believe your route is not well covered by the Tesla supercharger network, unless you live in some really obscure location.

View attachment 2353804
See how the red dots are super close together on the east coast and west coast, and then how there is a bunch of white space in between in the middle? Now imagine my routes go in between some of the biggest areas of white space....
 
Pumping gas takes like 5 minutes, so if charging requires anywhere from 6-10 times longer, it seems like we would need 6-10 times as many charging stations as we have gas pumps now.

You've gotta account for the percentage of EV owners that very rarely (if ever) charge their cars away from home. An ICE car will always have to use a gas station.
 
Batteries are a wear item so, if you swap, you have no idea of the battery condition and how far you can travel on it.

The batteries are also very heavy and take up a lot of space. Vehicles would have to be redesigned for battery swaps, the swap center would need a place to safely store the batteries, you would need some way of putting the battery in the car. and batteries lose charge when they are sitting.

Also, how many batteries should the swap center keep in stock and how are they expected to charge all the batteries they get back ?

Lastly, the batteries are very expensive and a swap center would never be able to afford the batteries that are needed.

Swapping batteries might sound like a good idea but it's a bad idea.

Agree on most points. You're not changing the battery on an Xbox controller, but on a car that needs to have safety features built into the compartment and takes up almost the whole underside of the car. How long would a swap take? Not less than 30 minutes even for the most skilled techs. Not to mention just the tesla batteries alone cost over $20,000 each?

Then there is the question of manufacturer warranty. Who is going to pay for repairs if your battery is installed incorrectly and damages your vehicle? Think a shop owner is going to get into business to deal with headache? The car maker is going to "be nice".

How much would a shop have to charge you to be a viable business? Huge overhead for this business and a product that diminishes with every charge so it won't be cheap.

The only point I disagree with you on is the car being able to approximate battery condition and travel distance on that battery. That is a standard feature and the car can calibrate each battery installed.

As you said, it's sounds good, but is bad.
 
People scream about the 5 mins and go but that is for your weekly gas stop in your car not road trip stopping. Road trip stopping tends to be a slower thing as you are able to double up charging and other items.
Getting gas on a road trip there is no doubling up things. It is get gas, then take care of other needs instead of all of them happening at the same time.

Everyone's different, but we pack everything we need for a road trip and don’t waste any extra time during gas stops. Plus my 15 year old ICE car would require less total stops so the extra time waiting around isn’t appealing to me.
 
Are they going to mandate away cold weather too lol?

It’s WaRmInG don’t cha know? 😉

Are companies going to stop developing EVs? What we see today is the end game?

“lol” indeed.
Yes, they already have. Ford has lost billions and is cutting back. No one wants them except the early virtue adopters.

Funny how Chicago has this problem, and Norway doesn't.
They don’t? What’s different? Or is it not being reported?

Hydrogen, yo. That's the next wave the auto industry is most interested in. Toyota has already developed a hydrogen combustion engine (aka: the holy grail). Its fuel is water. Its waste is steam. And it's powerful. This looks to usurp electric within the next decade - if not sooner. Way easier on the environment that all that goes into EVs.
California just said “no” to hydrogen the other day.

No. The solution is to have a second battery that powers a warmer for the main one when it’s charging.
And a battery to keep that battery warm. It’s turtles all the way down. 🐢🐢🐢🐢

It's amazing how every piddly little thing is suddenly a show stopper for some people. All you'd need is some 110v outlets at street level to keep the cars warm, and basic law enforcement to keep idiots from unplugging them.
😂 I can’t tell if this is sarcasm or serious. There aren’t enough cops to respond to emergency calls, thanks to all the defunding the last few years. And now we expect them to monitor extension cords on the sidewalk? 🤣

It's a good thing that ICE cars never catch fire. :/

View attachment 2353961
Yup, certainly blew up the whole argument with that one. 🙄 I’m willing to bet there have already been more EV fires than the entire history of the Pinto and original Mustang.
 
Pumping gas takes like 5 minutes, so if charging requires anywhere from 6-10 times longer, it seems like we would need 6-10 times as many charging stations as we have gas pumps now.
But a charging station is literally two square feet behind any existing parking space. A gas station is 100x larger, requires massive underground tanks, delivery by tanker truck, and periodic wars in the middle east. The needed infrastructure is laughingly small compared to things we have already done.
 
You bought into the myth there's not enough energy for EVs, but there are enough indicators stating that, thanks to the adoption of smart grids and progressively increasing sustainable electricity generation, this will not be an issue in the developed world.

Also, don't forget that producing 1 litre of fossil fuel requires 1,58 kWh of energy. Driving a fossil fuelled car for 100km and consuming 7 litres, will require 11kWh. That's enough for an EV to drive up to 80km. As a consequence, a million more electric cars on the roads will only require 3,6% more electricity.
We need far more than a million vehicles on the road to make a dent. About 280 million vehicles in the U.S. alone...

Not sure why you think it's a myth... The U.S. can barely power itself in 2024. Here's a good (outdated) piece from the NYT. That article is from 2022. Since then, energy needs has increased by almost another 5%.
 
Some supporting evidence would be nice.
You can google, but to which part? Here's an outdated chart (about 7% higher than this as of 2024)
Image 2-28-24 at 2.25 PM.jpg


The point remains. Electric is not the future, which is why so many manufacturers continue to invest in hydrogen.

 
We need far more than a million vehicles on the road to make a dent. About 280 million vehicles in the U.S. alone...

Not sure why you think it's a myth... The U.S. can barely power itself in 2024. Here's a good (outdated) piece from the NYT. That article is from 2022. Since then, energy needs has increased by almost another 5%.
I think it is more those cars would only require 3.6% energey than the million ice cars it replaced.

One thing people forget about on EV is oddly enough will help with grid stabliztation as it increases base load a hell of a lot more than peak load.
Or system is designed for peak load and EVs do not increase peak load that much as most of the charging is done during off peak and super off peak hours. By increasing the base load it allow our bigger and more effluence power plants to keep running. Those same plants that can not adjust as quickly to power demands and are more efficient to run.

If we converted all transportations over to EV in the United states I believe total power usage would increase by less than 30% but peak demand will increase by no where close to that number most of that demand will be handled b y the off peak and super off peak usage.

Basiically saying our system today can handle the power needs of EVs due to load shifting.
 
You can google, but to which part? Here's an outdated chart (about 7% higher than this as of 2024)View attachment 2353971

The point remains. Electric is not the future, which is why so many manufacturers continue to invest in hydrogen.

Do not confuse total power usage vs peak power usage. Most of that increase in demand is during off peak and base load increases. Our system is designed for peak demand and EVs do not add that much to peak demend.
Not to long ago most homes did not have AC yet we handled that massive and rapid increase in power demands just fine.
 
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