Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

skaertus

macrumors 601
Feb 23, 2009
4,252
1,409
Brazil
A large part of the PC consumer market is concerned with gaming, and this drives PC technology to deliver ever greater speeds. New cutting edge games take advantage of this, such as Cyberpunk 2077 and Metro Exodus, to draw more photorealistic vista's, better characters and more detailed monsters. In essence the industry revolves around this push to create movie-quality visuals, which requires hardware makers to keep ramping up computing speed as the number #1 priority.

But is that really necessary? If you look at past gaming industry launches, like the Nintendo Wii and the Switch, performance was not the number one priority. In fact, whenever you look in the last fifteen years, there have been effective launches on hardware of varying levels of power. There have been great games on the PlayStation 3, Xbox One, Wii and others.

What really matters is do these games work as good art. If you look at games like Journey on the PS3, or Limbo and Inside on the PC, or The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild on Nintendo Switch, the visuals work as art pieces, every frame a painting, to coin a famous phrase from the movie industry. You can make a great game for any platform, as long as you take that into account.

So on a platform like M1, where Apple has prioritised performance-per-watt to create relatively fast and energy efficient processors, it should still be possible to create great games. However is it possible to create great ports? To take a game that was meant to be photorealistic and adapt it to a lesser hardware platform will give poor results. I think to create great games for this platform will mean building artistic games that run on the hardware.

Yep. Good games have nothing to go with graphics. For the last two weeks I have had a blast playing Vampire Survivors which is a very silly game using very simple sprite graphics.

But photorealistic games are a current fashion and one just can’t ignore that.

Apple needs first-party games designed by artists, from not only a visual perspective, but also story and gameplay. It’s not enough to throw money at third-party exclusives for Apple Arcade, especially since a lot of those games (I’m looking at you Star Trek) are just mobile games with the micro transactions taken out. To be successful at gaming (rather than casual mobile apps) Apple needs the type of commitment they put into creating shows like Ted Lasso or Severence for TV+.
Good games are not about graphics. Good games are about gameplay. Great technical specs such as amazing graphics, can attract players, though.

The problem with the Mac is not the performance, and it has never been. The problem with it is the audience, the userbase.

Each of the Switch and the Playstation 4 have sold over 100 million units. The Xbox One was not that successful, but it still has sold over 50 million and Microsoft is supporting it with sweet deals for exclusives. There are certainly over a billion, and perhaps two billion, PCs in the world, which is a lot. But, more importantly, there are over 120 million active Steam users, a huge market of potential buyers for PC games.

So, if you release a game for Playstation 4, Switch, or Steam, you can reach an audience of over 100 million potential buyers on each of these platforms. Xbox One has half that potential, but still.

What about the Mac? It was reported that in 2018 there were more than 100 million active Macs worldwide. That number may have risen, but I do not have the statistics for 2022. While it may be more than 100 million, it has probably not reached 200 million. Out of 100 million Mac users, not all of them are gamers.

So, the potential audience of Mac gamers is much lower than Playstation 4, Switch or Steam. It is definitely not easy to convince publishers to make or port games to Macs, especially AAA-games which are very expensive to make and demand huge sales.

The Apple Arcade is a clever way around this, because it takes advantage of the huge iPhone userbase. The userbase of iPhones, iPads and Macs combined make it a compelling proposition for anyone willing to make or port games to these platforms. However, as there are far more iPhones than Macs, the game must be optimized for this platform. It means that games for Apple Arcade should be easily playable with touch controls, which make them simpler and more restrictive than games that can be controlled with an 8-button gamepad.
 

mi7chy

macrumors G4
Oct 24, 2014
10,625
11,296
Apple's revenue from iPhone and iPad mobile gaming is higher than console and PC gaming from Microsoft, Nintendo and Sony combined.

Hard to believe since mobile gaming is dead as far as I'm concerned. The only few mobile games I've bought in the last few years are PC ports like Dead Cells just for curiosity and might also check out Apex Legends mobile but still prefer to play on PC.
 
  • Love
Reactions: turbineseaplane

Bodhitree

macrumors 68020
Apr 5, 2021
2,085
2,217
Netherlands
Yes, all of them, sure. /s

Gamers are gamers, no matter the platform.

But are they? I don’t think mobile gamers particularly care about the hardware they play on, even less so than console gamers. I don’t think I’ve ever seen “it doesn’t play the latest games” as a reason to upgrade one’s phone on a research poll - it’s just not on the radar at all.

PC gamers on the other hand tend to be very hardware conscious, in that a lot of them pick up peripheral knowledge about the best gear to buy. They very much buy into the whole thing of faster is better, 4K gaming is superior to UHD which is better than Full HD, more frames per second, less lag.

I buy games and consoles very rarely, but you know what, I may finally succumb and buy a Nintendo Switch. I hear that Wii Sports is getting a successor, and that was just the greatest game to play with friends, because everyone young or old could take a turn bowling or golfing.
 

turbineseaplane

macrumors P6
Mar 19, 2008
17,393
40,179
This is how I know I'm getting old

In 2010-2012 I had many iPhone/iPad games I enjoyed
Now - I play exactly two games, ever, on either device

Retro Bowl & Retro Goal
That's it, that's all.

All the rest of my gaming is on Windows PC now.
MS Gamepass is a fantastic value and I need Windows anyhow for my MSFS activities.
 

ader42

macrumors 6502
Jun 30, 2012
436
390
There are multiple gaming markets.

Nowadays I’m back to only gaming on my PS5, 4 years ago I primarily gamed on iPad/iPhone.

I.e. I used to play Brawl Stars a lot but now I‘m back focused upon high graphical quality games such as Demon’s Souls or Horizon Forbidden West.

Recent hits like Fall Guys and Among Us prove that gaming on even low-end Macs would be straight-forward if developers cared - if there were enough Mac users to warrant the port.

High-end gaming is not the only gaming market, the worlds best selling video-game is Minecraft. My son plays Minecraft on PS4, PS5 and his 2014 MacBook Pro.

In fact most of the best selling games outside of mobile are not so-called AAA games.

GTA V is the 2nd best selling game of all time, but Tetris is third, and Wii Sports is fourth.
 
  • Like
Reactions: turbineseaplane

JouniS

macrumors 6502a
Nov 22, 2020
638
399
But is that really necessary? If you look at past gaming industry launches, like the Nintendo Wii and the Switch, performance was not the number one priority. In fact, whenever you look in the last fifteen years, there have been effective launches on hardware of varying levels of power. There have been great games on the PlayStation 3, Xbox One, Wii and others.
Necessary is not the right word. Your Mac is most likely unnecessary, because it contributes very little to keeping people alive and healthy. It's probably valuable, because it enables you to do something valuable. Something that's inherently interesting or something that contributes indirectly to things that are necessary or inherently interesting.

My last GPU upgrade allowed me to replace a 24" 1920x1080 monitor with a 34" 3440x1440 monitor. The games I used to play feel better after the upgrade, because the bigger screen is more immersive. The upgrade was clearly valuable. It wasn't necessary, because gaming in general is unnecessary.

The GPU is still too weak for the games I play in some situations. There is often a noticeable frame rate loss in crowded scenes, which makes the games less enjoyable. I can imagine another 2x to 4x performance upgrade will be valuable in the future, once high-end GPUs become more affordable and efficient.

You can make a great game for any platform, as long as you take that into account.
You can make a great game for any platform, but the same game will often be more enjoyable on a more powerful platform.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ruftzooi

Pressure

macrumors 603
May 30, 2006
5,182
1,545
Denmark
You can make a great game for any platform, but the same game will often be more enjoyable on a more powerful platform.
That's just not true.

It doesn't even matter if the game isn't multi-platform, like all Nintendo games. Gameplay is more important. Is it fun to play?

More than half of the games in the TOP50 best selling games list is Nintendo.
 

StudioMacs

macrumors 65816
Apr 7, 2022
1,133
2,270
It should go without saying that the audience for ”cut the rope” or “candy crush” or whatever is the top grossing iOS game right now isn’t the same audience waiting on edge for news of the next Zelda, Metroid Prime, or Gran Turismo update.

There is an intersection of individuals in both groups, but they are different audiences.

Saying iOS games make more money is like saying soap operas make more money than the theater.
 
  • Love
Reactions: turbineseaplane

JouniS

macrumors 6502a
Nov 22, 2020
638
399
That's just not true.

It doesn't even matter if the game isn't multi-platform, like all Nintendo games. Gameplay is more important. Is it fun to play?
Those are both true at the same time. Gameplay is more important, but the same gameplay is better with better graphics.

Nintendo makes it profits with low-end dedicated gaming devices. Apple is supposed to be a premium brand, and they would probably actively oppose being associated with low-end anything.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: diamond.g

Gnattu

macrumors 65816
Sep 18, 2020
1,107
1,672
Apple's revenue from iPhone and iPad mobile gaming is higher than console and PC gaming from Microsoft, Nintendo and Sony combined.
Games on mobile phones have a very different business model which tend to lead to a very high revenue.
The only few mobile games I've bought
And this, is the point. You don't "buy" games on mobile phones, you download it for free and pay for "whatever stuff" in the game, this could easily cost you much more than the price of multiple AAA titles.

Revenue has nothing to do with the gameplay or game quality. A crappy mobile game can have a lot of revenue out of this business model.
 
  • Like
Reactions: StudioMacs

sunny5

macrumors 68000
Jun 11, 2021
1,838
1,706
Apple is not even trying to expand their gaming on Mac because of their mobile market. PC is not a future anymore.
 

Xiao_Xi

macrumors 68000
Oct 27, 2021
1,628
1,101
Apple's revenue from iPhone and iPad mobile gaming is higher than console and PC gaming from Microsoft, Nintendo and Sony combined.
Would Apple's stance on computer games change if its lucrative mobile gaming business was affected by regulation? Could the openness of iOS force Apple to focus more on computer games?
 

Bodhitree

macrumors 68020
Apr 5, 2021
2,085
2,217
Netherlands
Would Apple's stance on computer games change if its lucrative mobile gaming business was affected by regulation? Could the openness of iOS force Apple to focus more on computer games?

It’s a definite possibility. What I would imagine will happen is that most of the big franchises will do their own payment methods to avoid the app store fees, and Apple makes most of their money off these tent-pole titles. A lot of smaller titles won’t find it practical to go to the trouble of setting up their own payments and will stay using the App Store mechanism for the sake of convenience.

I would expect Apple’s gaming revenue to sink by 75-90% as a rough estimate. And I don’t see an easy way for them to recoup that. The App Store will stay profitable, but it won’t be the services cash-cow it seems to have been in recent times.
 

wonderings

macrumors 6502a
Nov 19, 2021
957
948
Apple computers first and foremost are expensive, they are a premium product with a premium price tag. Right there that kills it for a lot of people, not everyone can afford an Apple computer. Now you mix with that Apples anti-consumer practices in regards to upgrades and repairs and you have another big reason why people into serious gaming do not use Apple. I would also say the Windows is a more stable OS, who knows what would break or cause issues for games developed for Mac OS. Simple print drivers can go haywire with a new Mac OS release. Things that worked fine in one version of Mac OS may have issues in the next release. Microsoft for better or worse is pretty stable in that I can run ancient old applications on their newest releases. At work we use an application that is 15 or so years old, it still runs and runs well in Windows 11 ARM, yes the ARM version which is emulating X86. Things generally just work and keep working in Windows. I have had plenty of apps "break" with a MacOS update over the years and resulted in waiting for the developer to create updates and fixes. Now I love MacOS, it is my preferred OS for work use and general browsing, but for gaming I stick to Windows. The library of available games is HUGE, the options are endless and it is flexible and I don't need to buy a whole new computer if I want new tech.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ruftzooi

StudioMacs

macrumors 65816
Apr 7, 2022
1,133
2,270
Apple computers first and foremost are expensive, they are a premium product with a premium price tag. Right there that kills it for a lot of people, not everyone can afford an Apple computer. Now you mix with that Apples anti-consumer practices in regards to upgrades and repairs and you have another big reason why people into serious gaming do not use Apple. I would also say the Windows is a more stable OS, who knows what would break or cause issues for games developed for Mac OS. Simple print drivers can go haywire with a new Mac OS release. Things that worked fine in one version of Mac OS may have issues in the next release. Microsoft for better or worse is pretty stable in that I can run ancient old applications on their newest releases. At work we use an application that is 15 or so years old, it still runs and runs well in Windows 11 ARM, yes the ARM version which is emulating X86. Things generally just work and keep working in Windows. I have had plenty of apps "break" with a MacOS update over the years and resulted in waiting for the developer to create updates and fixes. Now I love MacOS, it is my preferred OS for work use and general browsing, but for gaming I stick to Windows. The library of available games is HUGE, the options are endless and it is flexible and I don't need to buy a whole new computer if I want new tech.
Backwards compatibility and stability are two different things, but Microsoft has to maintain backwards compatibility because of the type of software businesses run. There are plenty of opinions on the net about which approach is better, but i think in this case Mac could benefit from the leap forward to Metal running on Apple Silicon and a more unified approach to iOS and macOS development.
 
Last edited:

Gnattu

macrumors 65816
Sep 18, 2020
1,107
1,672
Microsoft for better or worse is pretty stable in that I can run ancient old applications on their newest releases. At work we use an application that is 15 or so years old, it still runs and runs well in Windows 11 ARM, yes the ARM version which is emulating X86. Things generally just work and keep working in Windows. I have had plenty of apps "break" with a MacOS update over the years and resulted in waiting for the developer to create updates and fixes.
This is a critical difference. You can program for Windows and expect it will still run on Windows 10 years later, and it is impossible to happen if you program for macOS(and iOS). Apple does not care about backward compatibility at all and each and every macOS/iOS would simply break a lot of apps. You as a developer on Apple platform have to keep up and update your apps or your app will simply not run.
 

dugbug

macrumors 68000
Aug 23, 2008
1,929
2,147
Somewhere in Florida
It’s funny you mention Apple TV though. Most Apple shows are utterly terrible, they are so preoccupied with playing it safe that the end result is sad mediocrity. I haven’t watched Ted Lasso though, it might be an exception.

Funny, I would see lasso as the epitome of "playing it safe" (though good), and other shows like severance, slow horse, etc. as being risky and fantastic.
 

wonderings

macrumors 6502a
Nov 19, 2021
957
948
This is a critical difference. You can program for Windows and expect it will still run on Windows 10 years later, and it is impossible to happen if you program for macOS(and iOS). Apple does not care about backward compatibility at all and each and every macOS/iOS would simply break a lot of apps. You as a developer on Apple platform have to keep up and update your apps or your app will simply not run.
Exactly, and there are pros and cons to both. Things run amazing in MacOS if they are up to date. My M1 Max is a beast of a machine and the apps I use that are native to M1 really are amazing and do not get that performance on the Windows side. Now if I need something older then there are issues, part of it is the developer, part of it is Apple as they change the OS in certain ways that it breaks older apps or even the ability to install unless the developer chooses to release an update. Some companies have taken advantage of this charging for upgrades with MacOS updates.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.