Apple courier (Uber) may have stolen 2 Macbooks I bought and it's looking like Apple is not going to help.

[theorist9]

It's remarkable that they let Uber deliver high-value items without requiring a signature or, at the very least, a photo delivery confirmation. That seems irresponsible on Apple's part.

I don't know how the Canadian legal system works but, if the credit card company denies it, and you can afford the time, in the US you could take either Apple or Uber to small claims court, and sue for up to $12,500 (or up to $6,250 if you're also a business).

I'd imagine that would get them to take you seriously. In your filing, you could explain that the driver needs to call you to gain entry, and provide your phone records showing no one did. You might even be able to demand the name of the driver, and then add that to the police report.

One other option is to contact the Better Business Bureau, which I think also operates in Canada. They have their own contacts, and will open up a case with the company. You could open up cases with both Apple and Uber.

What about trying the same tack with Uber you tried with Apple--writing to the CEO?

And does your complex record video of the entry door? If so, and if it hasn't been recorded over, you could request that from them.

 

[timber]

My guess is to make sure it doesn't look like it's been tampered with. If it looks like it has, the recipient just won't accept it. But I'm just guessing there.

That would also be my guess. But the thing is, they to have tamper with it anyway.
They just need more time to make it look better? The delivery dance is also a giveaway in itself.

 

[JSRinUK]

That would also be my guess. But the thing is, they to have tamper with it anyway.
They just need more time to make it look better? The delivery dance is also a giveaway in itself.

The delivery dance certainly alerted me and had me looking on the net for what might be going on. That's when I cancelled the order and would have refused delivery if it had been attempted (it wasn't).

The only issue after that was getting the refund from Amazon who wouldn't automatically refund until they'd received back the item that I'd supposedly returned. I got into a heated debate stating that I'd never taken delivery, so I couldn't have returned it, and whether they got it back or not wasn't anything to do with me. Reluctantly, and eventually, they agreed and processed the refund.

All good in the end, but a scary experience I'd rather not go through again. I only ever buy "cheap things" from Amazon now.

 

[Six0Four]

It's remarkable that they let Uber deliver high-value items without requiring a signature or, at the very least, a photo delivery confirmation. That seems irresponsible on Apple's part.

I don't know how the Canadian legal system works but, if the credit card company denies it, and you can afford the time, in the US you could take either Apple or Uber to small claims court, and sue for up to $12,500 (or up to $6,250 if you're also a business).

I'd imagine that would get them to take you seriously. In your filing, you could explain that the driver needs to call you to gain entry, and provide your phone records showing no one did. You might even be able to demand the name of the driver, and then add that to the police report.

One other option is to contact the Better Business Bureau, which I think also operates in Canada. They have their own contacts, and will open up a case with the company. You could open up cases with both Apple and Uber.

What about trying the same tack with Uber you tried with Apple--writing to the CEO?

And does your complex record video of the entry door? If so, and if it hasn't been recorded over, you could request that from them.

Ya its pretty crazy. Canada must have something similar so I'm going to look into that. So now Apple is done with me and the Police are doing a criminal investigation that really wont help me get the money back. Unless they have evidence it was stolen and I can supply that to the bank so they dont claw back the chargeback I did yesterday. Apple will probably lock my icloud at some point for doing so. I have heard of this happening.

I spoke with my landlord yesterday and he said he was very busy (runs two large highrises) but was on his phone scrubbing through the camera footage of the camera facing the entrance between 330pm and 400pm (package was supposedly delivered at 352pm). He doesn't think he seen anything but he will properly check on his computer today (saturday).

My defence is, phone records show no incoming calls within an hour of delivery. Hopefully camera footage showing him either not being there or being there and buzzing someone else. Lastly all that really needs to be done is track down the driver which can easily be done and ask what I look like. My race, weight, height, beard no beard type thing. He will 100% fail because I have one stand out feature that many dont have. The police can confirm this since they have seen me in person.

I looked back on my order page and it clearly states the person must sign for their item. Apple or Ubereats must have a record of this, is anyone bothering to look??!!

 

[macfacts]

Apple customer experience has has gone down hill.

 

[throAU]

Apple customer experience has has gone down hill.

Whilst apple aren't exactly being helpful here, surely the blame lies with Uber? This is like complaining to apple that UPS or DHL lost your stuff.

 

[timber]

Whilst apple aren't exactly being helpful here, surely the blame lies with Uber? This is like complaining to apple that UPS or DHL lost your stuff.

We can talk about Uber and its failed and insecure service but the OP bought the laptops from Apple. He has a deal with Apple not Uber.
The failure probably lies with Uber but Apple was supposed to get the laptops to him. How they do it is not the customer concern.
Apple failed and should assume the responsibility.

 

[macfacts]

Whilst apple aren't exactly being helpful here, surely the blame lies with Uber? This is like complaining to apple that UPS or DHL lost your stuff.

The original poster only paid apple for same day delivery, it was apple that picked Uber eats to deliver it. Apple should be the one asking Uber eats for proof of delivery.

 

[throAU]

We can talk about Uber and its failed and insecure service but the OP bought the laptops from Apple. He has a deal with Apple not Uber.
The failure probably lies with Uber but Apple was supposed to get the laptops to him. How they do it is not the customer concern.
Apple failed and should assume the responsibility.

Ah i thought maybe uber delivery was selected at check out.

 

[Alameda]

The original poster only paid apple for same day delivery, it was apple that picked Uber eats to deliver it. Apple should be the one asking Uber eats for proof of delivery.

Exactly so. The computers were never his because he or his agent has never taken possession of them. Uber was Apple’s agent, not his.

 

[john1970]

Ordered 2 Macbooks for $2500 from Apple (Canada). Paid for their same day delivery service which they use Uber for and it says delivered but it wasn't. Driver stole them or he delivered to the wrong person that stole them. If he actually delivered to the wrong address, I live in a high rise that does have cameras but only in the lobby which means once the Uber driver got on the elevator who's to say he didn't get the wrong unit and it's his word against mine.

I contacted Apple and they said they would reach out to Uber and get back to me. 12 hours later I got an email from Apple saying:

"We have completed our review with the carrier regarding your shipment and have determined that we are unable to provide a replacement or process a refund."

I couldn't believe my eyes. Picked up the phone and called them and what they didnt tell me in the email was that I should file a police report (which ive done). They said do the police report and the police will reach out to Apple. Problem is I talked to the police and they said they dont reach out to anyone, Apple reaches out to them once I give Apple the police report number. Apple also said they came to that decision because Uber says the item shows as delivered.

So basically I'm stressing. By reading online it looks like this has happened to others and they didn't get their money back. I'm just wondering if anyone here has been in a situation like this or can give me any advice?

Thanks.

------- UPDATES -------

EDIT 1:
Small update:

Lots of people online told me to contact Tim Cook by email. Obviously not expecting him to reply but apparently he has a team that responds to these emails for situations like this. Got a call today from a nice lady that asked a couple questions and for the police report number and to forward the original email i got from Apple telling me they wouldnt help me with a refund or replacement. She said she took over the case and is looking into it and to expect a call in a day or two. She seems pretty high up the food chain..

One thing I explained to her and to the police that came to visit me, was when someone visits/delivers anything to my building they must buzz in first. This comes through as an incoming call on my phone. I told her and the police that I will supply my login info for my phone carrier to see I had no incoming calls within hours of the supposed delivery.

I'm confident that if this is truly looked into by a real person who wants to put in the time to find the truth than it will end in my favour.

I appreciate all the advice i got here and will give an update once I hear from her.

EDIT 2: Spoke with Apple Retail Executive Relations. They're not changing their decision. I get nothing back. Case closed. Trying a chargeback now. I feel sick.

In the United States, if you pay by credit card and the goods are not received the credit card should refund the amount. I also find it odd that given the price of the merchandise that a direct signature from you was not required a proof of delivery.

 

[john1970]

I wouldn’t waste another moment. Your credit card company can issue a new card number or you can apply for another credit card. This is $2,500 and I think Apple’s conduct here is absolutely atrocious. They shipped it to you, and failure to deliver is their fault. It is absolutely your right to not pay for merchand use you did not receive.

Exactly. I once ordered merchandise (not from Apple) for $250 and never received it. Contacted the vendor twice and was always forwarded to voicemail. I contact my credit card company and four days later a new shipment arrived on my doorstep. Done.

 

[theorist9]

In the United States, if you pay by credit card and the goods are not received the credit card should refund the amount. I also find it odd that given the price of the merchandise that a direct signature from you was not required a proof of delivery.

According to the OP's most recent screenshot, the official requirements are that someone must be present to sign for the package. So either the driver delivered it to the wrong address and someone there signed for it, or the driver never delivered it and just scribbled a signature themselves, or they don't bother following their own requirements.

One way to protect against the latter would be for Apple to supply the recipient with a code only they know, and require they enter the code into the driver's device. That's done by Amazon for some items.

That doesn't protect you against the driver removing the item from the box and replacing it prior to delivery with something of the same weight. To protect against that happening to high-value items, shippers could either (a) require the customer unseal the box in front of the driver, confirm the contents actually are there, and note that on the device before they sign; or (b) seal the box with security tape and require the customer confirm the tape has not been removed or cut, and that there are no cuts in the cardboard of the box itself. Though either of those create an additional layer of inconvenience.

 

[windrider42]

I am in Canada and have no issues with buying or delivery from Apple. It is always through Fedex and I get constant updates about delivery. I know exactly when it's coming.
I know in Buildings it can be frustrating sometimes without clear instruction for them. I hope it works out for you.

 

[Fishrrman]

OP:

I realize it may take a while to get resolution (even if the credit card company "claws back" the charges).

Could you save this thread, and come back here with "the end of the story" later on...?

I'm sure folks are interested in the outcome.

 

[Six0Four]

OP:

I realize it may take a while to get resolution (even if the credit card company "claws back" the charges).

Could you save this thread, and come back here with "the end of the story" later on...?

I'm sure folks are interested in the outcome.

Yup 100%.

 

[jaw04005]

Whilst apple aren't exactly being helpful here, surely the blame lies with Uber? This is like complaining to apple that UPS or DHL lost your stuff.

UPS conveniently just lost my iPhone trade-in. It sat in Kentucky for three weeks without being delivered. I wasn't allowed to deal directly with UPS. Apple had to deal with them and file a claim.

Until the product is delivered into a customer's hands, it's the responsibility of the company selling the product.

 

[mdatwood]

I feel like something is missing from this story. I'm surprised Apple hasn't produced the evidence why they are convinced the product was delivered. At a minimum this would help you and police investigate since Apple is tying to put it on you.

A chargeback is the next recourse, and may get Apple to relent. Just by beginning the chargeback process I've had issues resolved in the past. Also, while it could happen I wouldn't be too concerned about a single chargeback causing issues with your AppleId or CC.

 

[laptech]

I am sure contract of sales works the same in your country as it does in many others and that is the contract of sale is between the customer and the seller. The delivery company is nothing to do with the customer. Meaning if anything goes wrong with delivery, it is the sellers responsibility to resolve disputes with failed deliveries.

Apple delivery company of choice here is Uber, Uber are saying the macbooks were delivered, the customer is saying the macbooks were not delivered. The customer is firstly to contact Apple to inform them the items have not been delivered. If Apple disputes this by saying they have received confirmation from the delivery company that the macbooks were delivered then it is still the Apples responsibility to check that this actually took place. Apple is to obtain evidence from the delivery company that the macbooks were delivered (photo of delivery, signature of person who signed for the package).

The sale of contract is between the OP and Apple. Apple's delivery company has screwed up and therefore under consumer law Apple is to correct the problem, even if it means a minor financial loss to Apple. The fact that Apple appear to be accusing the OP of fraud (receiving the laptops then claiming not to have received them) is disgusting (Apple saying the macbooks were delivered therefore their end of the contract of sale has been complete).

If Apple is adamant that the macbooks were delivered based on evidence they received from the delivery company, the OP needs to ring Apple back and ask them what evidence do they have that the mackbooks were delivered. f Apple refuses to give this information then the OP needs to inform the person on the phone that Apple is in breach of consumer rights and sales rights and that you will be taking them to court and then put the phone down. By court I mean the small claims court. Everyone is failing to do their job, Apple, Uber and the police.

The OP first needs to send a letter to Apple outlining the issue at hand in that 2 macbooks were not delivered which were reported to Apple with Apple dismissing your claims that the macbooks were not delivered. The OP is to quote the relevant laws that protect consumers rights (Sales of good law) and inform Apple they have 14 days to provide physical evidence that the macbooks were delivered. Failure to do so will result in legal action taking place. If Apple fails to do the right thing then making a filing in the small claims court.

Pay the filing fee for small claim then come court date the OP would need to tell the judge that Apple claims the macbooks were delivered would not provide any evidence of that fact and that going to the police did not help because they refused to look into the matter properly. All the OP needs to do if have a stack of evidence to show he/she took all the right steps in filing a non-delivered complaint to Apple and a theft report to the Police and all evidence to show that the macbooks were not delivered. OP will win.

Edit: Just so people are aware, the small claims court is the last resort. Small claim court judges take a very dim view if all methods for resolving the dispute have not been followed (following the sellers complaints procedure, following the police complaints procedure, following consumer law procedure on how to deal with consumer issues) because in their view disputes should be able to be resolved outside of court. This is why it is extremely important to make sure all avenues to resolve the issue have been exhausted so evidence of such can be presented to the Judge.

 

[Eriamjh1138@DAN]

Apple knows the MAC addresses of these machines. If they’re online, they’d know.

But nobody is talking to all of the people at the same time and this is an unnecessary delay.

Initiate the chargeback process if you already haven’t. Stop wasting your time. You’ve been told NO 3x which means it’s your turn to act.

You want proof it wasn’t delivered?

 

[laptech]

Those saying to issue a credit card chargeback, the OP said they have already contacted their credit card company who warned them there is nothing they can do if Apple reports back that the laptops were delivered.

Apple are the ones at fault here because after telling the OP to report the issue to the police which the OP has and to get a crime number which the OP has given to Apple, Apple should then send out replacement laptops via a different courier because it is Apple's responsibility to investigate what has gone wrong. It is not the responsibility of the buyer to do the investigation. Apple should enquire what evidence the OP has that the laptops were not delivered. Apple should then use this evidence when talking to the courier company they used (Uber) explaining this is the evidence the customer has supplied which contradicts what the courier is saying. Apple should then escalate the problem with the courier to determine the name of the courier who allegedly delivered the laptops and the delivery route they were given for the day. It is then up to Apple if they make a claim against the courier for theft of customers laptops (reporting it to the police on the crime number the OP supplied) or make a claim against the OP that they are trying to defraud Apple (keep the OP's money and/or inform the police).

 

[Merkie]

You have to take legal action. You have a binding agreement with Apple which Apple didn't uphold. You did your part (transfer money), but Apple didn't do their part (deliver the goods). The burden of proof is on Apple, not on you.

 

[laptech]

You have to take legal action. You have a binding agreement with Apple which Apple didn't uphold. You did your part (transfer money), but Apple didn't do their part (deliver the goods). The burden of proof is on Apple, not on you.

'bold' - that is so true and consumer law emphasises this. This is why when consumers are being given the push over by companies the consumers needs to find put what there consumer law is on the sale of goods and quote that law to whoever is giving the person the run-a-round because once a company has been given the name of the consumer law that they are affected by, the company has a legal obligation from that time and date of notification to follow that law because far to often companies make excuses of not fully understanding the law and thus what their obligations under the law are because laws can constantly change due to updates and amendments. Writing the company a letter with the line 'Under the 'Sale of Goods Law' (or how ever it is titled in the OP's country) legal action will be taken to address my (the OP) concerns.' This is basically legal jargon telling the company that the consumer is going to exercise their consumer rights outlined under that law.

This is usually when the legal department of the company get involved because they then look at the law referenced in the letter to see if the consumer has a case and you will find 99% of the time the consumer has a case. That is why small claims courts are perfect for this type of situation because losing put's a black mark against the company. OK it would only be small claims court BUT it is still a legal court at the end of the day. Companies cannot have to many court black marks against them because it affects their credit rating which affects their ability to obtain loans and other lines of credit.

This is why now, when emails are sent, the contents of the email are written into a letter and sent off to the company address that is given for dealing with customer complaints. When having to phone Apple, keep a pen and notepad by the phone taking short notes of what is being said OR when the phone conversation is finished, immediately write down on the note pad what was said in the phone conversation. This is done with everyone, Apple, the police, the courier because the more evidence a person has and shows that they have followed all the correct procedures from Apple, the police and the courier, the person will have a stack of evidence from emails, letters and notebook full of phone conversations. Do it right and there is no way the OP would lose in a small claim court.

 

[Tagbert]

I feel like something is missing from this story. I'm surprised Apple hasn't produced the evidence why they are convinced the product was delivered. At a minimum this would help you and police investigate since Apple is tying to put it on you.

A chargeback is the next recourse, and may get Apple to relent. Just by beginning the chargeback process I've had issues resolved in the past. Also, while it could happen I wouldn't be too concerned about a single chargeback causing issues with your AppleId or CC.

The OP, Six0Four, has said that they contacted Apple and Apple has responded that they are investigating. The initial Apple response was a by-the-script denial. Then the OP reached out the the “Tim Cook” email address and got someone who is escalating the investigation. At this point it is probably better to let that follow its course rather than go straight to chargeback.

 

[theorist9]

The OP, Six0Four, has said that they contacted Apple and Apple has responded that they are investigating. The initial Apple response was a by-the-script denial. Then the OP reached out the the “Tim Cook” email address and got someone who is escalating the investigation. At this point it is probably better to let that follow its course rather than go straight to chargeback.

The OP made a follow-up post saying that route has been exhausted. I've pasted below the original post about that, and the follow-up.

Having said that, before doing the chargeback, I agree with others here the OP should make one more attempt with Apple Exec Relations, asking them to provide the documentation Apple has showing the Mac was delivered, saying: "I need either that documentation, or an email from you (Apple) stating you refuse to provide that documentation, in order to purse this case in small claims court".

I think just mentioning "small claims court" would get their attention.

At the same time, the OP needs to be careful not to miss the chargeback deadline.

Small update:

Lots of people online told me to contact Tim Cook by email. Obviously not expecting him to reply but apparently he has a team that responds to these emails for situations like this. Got a call today from a nice lady that asked a couple questions and for the police report number and to forward the original email i got from Apple telling me they wouldnt help me with a refund or replacement. She said she took over the case and is looking into it and to expect a call in a day or two. She seems pretty high up the food chain..

Spoke with Apple Retail Executive Relations. They're not changing their decision. I get nothing back. Case closed. Trying a chargeback now. Bank says if Apple proves it was delivered they will pull back the chargeback. I feel sick.