Apple Discontinues 20" Cinema Display, Product Refreshes Coming?

[Digital Skunk]

I wholeheartedly agree... why people profess that the lossy compressed video garbage that Apple is releasing from their store is by any means a worthy evolutionary step on from the quality offered by Blu-Ray is beyond me.

Once the infrastructure of the the internet can support 50Mb+ speeds worldwide and we can download content which isn't so compressed, then maybe that will be the end of optical media. Until that day, get your finger out of your ass Apple and add Blu-Ray as a BTO to your product lines!

The reason why people want to suffer with limited quality it because they just don't know any better. It's like it was with MP4 audio when the iPod first came out with iTunes. There where millions of people asking if they should continue to buy CDs or download from the internet.

We all know how that went.

I agree with the Blue Ray supporters, but I would never wait for Apple to wise up on that front. I'd grab a REAL media center PC with BR and be happy.

 

[JGowan]

Nonsense. Lots and lots of people have a macbook as their only machine and I'm sure they don't see it as "dipping their toe" or only for "light tasks." If apple would just give the mini the internals of a macbook it would be a perfect primary machine for lots of people.

Way to quote me out of context... the gist of MY post was that people don't buy a MINI and then stick a 20" Cinema Disply on it -- they'd buy the 20" iMac instead.

Also, What the hell does my post have anything to do with your FANTASY MACHINE that's right up there with Santa & the Chupacabra?!

Next time, try reading the whole post next time before just clipping and spouting off.

 

[Outsider]

Cutting the 20" this week could be in preparation for a refresh on the 24th (this Tuesday coming up).

 

[ccuk]

The reason why people want to suffer with limited quality it because they just don't know any better. It's like it was with MP4 audio when the iPod first came out with iTunes. There where millions of people asking if they should continue to buy CDs or download from the internet.

We all know how that went.

I agree with the Blue Ray supporters, but I would never wait for Apple to wise up on that front. I'd grab a REAL media center PC with BR and be happy.

I was more so referring to those who know full well that Blu-Ray offers greater picture detail yet still claim the download-able content to be superior.

My reason for wanting Blu-Ray is from a pro user perspective. I hope that the new Final Cut Studio (If there ever will be a new one) offers Blu-ray support and authoring... Apple are dropping the ball and I feel this is a sample of things to come. They clearly make more money from iPods, the iPhone etc than their computer line up. Wouldn't surprise me at all if they turn round and release Mac OS X as direct competitor to Windows, and concentrate on their "gadget line up".

 

[daneoni]

I've been looking for one since they were removed from the store and found one here. http://www.macwarehouse.co.uk/catalogue/item/APDIS001?cidp=Froogle

Some people must really want them...they're out of stock. Thanks for looking anyway.

 

[AtariKee]

Exactly. I refused to buy any Mac hardware for the last two years because of the lack of headless choice between the Mac Mini and the MacPro.

Well, enjoy the Mac you've got, and enjoy the PC you'll be buying next because a headless Mac WILL NEVER HAPPEN.

Sorry, I don't wanna be there
Incidentally, that reminds of the first Apple fanboi I've met. Going on and on about how he's soooo creative and doing all kinds of artsy crap and what not, and designing stuff on his wonderful machine all the time, you know. So I offered to build him a kick-ass rig (at the time): a 1.4Ghz Celeron with 3/4 GB RAM, and he explains that his Apple would be superior to this, obviously, duh. And he shows me his wunderbox: a freaking IIc ferfuxake, that couldn't get out of its own way.
You go ahead and have fun in your dream world, and if Apple keeps losing the plot like they did before, well, there's the whole wide world of Linux on machines that are every which way the equal and better of anything Apple offers, hardware-wise, for a fraction of the price.

That is the biggest, most far-fetched stereotypical crap I have ever read. Next time you want to make up a story, take longer than two minutes.

I'm switching - - to Dell.

Since Apple are completely ignoring their customers who prefer a matte screen, they're losing my business. I hate to do this, but they simply don't offer a screen product I like. I can't believe that it's finally come to this. The 30-inch doesn't fit in my workspace.

Just buy a matte screen from someone else, dolt. Apple's displays have become uneconomical anyway. You're going to drop Apple completely because of this? Sounds like you've been waiting for the excuse to do so, and you've finally found it.

You could buy another brand as here you do have a choice. We use NEC monitors with our Mac Pros and Mac minis.

See? He gets it. I use an HP display with mine. YOU DO HAVE A CHOICE.

Like I said, I think you've been looking for a reason to drop Apple; whether it be because of your "friends" or whatever; and you've finally found it. Congrats.

Okay, I am a notebook user only so I am biased and I'll concede that point, but maybe the point is that notebooks have come a long long way. I'm typing on a brand new 2.4ghz MB Pro with 4gigs of Ram...tell me what the average $1000 desktop can do that I cannot on this laptop? It's a challenge but I'm also asking honestly. I mean, what are the huge advantages of the desktop here--if any?

2, 3, 5 years ago the differences would be many--I'll give you that, but right now, specs aside, what are the real differences in what I can do using a $1000 Dell desktop vs. my MB Pro?

Personally, I hope they kill their desktops. That way, all of the "headless Mac" whiners will finally SHUT UP about it.

Yes, I did.
My point is that Apple's notebook line-up is more attractive than the desktop line-up, and that will certainly result in falling desktop sales compared to notebook sales, or (looked at positively) rising comparatively notebook sales.
Indeed, that's your self-fulfilling prophesy.

But, I am sure that notebooks will not be the real desktop replacement, at least not for most. I sure hope Steve doesn't believe too much in his own "prophecy".
His predictions haven't always been that correct.. (iPod not with video, Apple not going into the already overcrowded cellphone market, G5 @ 3.0 GHz..)

To address your last sentence- Steve said those things to mislead everyone, and it obviously worked. He has a long history of telling people that Apple isn't going into a specific market, then doing it anyway.

I've been a Mac user since the IIci days.
Here are a few rules of thumb.

1) Analysts are always wrong. Period.

2) Apple updates their hardware less frequently, so they'll occasionally have the absolute best, but most often, it lags behind. That's OK though, because the machine is more fun, productive, and will have a better resale value.

3) If you're banging your head on a wall because you're frustrated they haven't updated, then you're not really a Mac user yet. You're still a closet believer in PC 'mega giga'. You have to let go of that to get into the inner circle of the cult.

I hope that helps.

You're right. Analysts, especially the morons who always try to predict what Apple is going to do, are wrong. They are also always idiots. Anyone who believes what these idiots say are also idiots.

 

[BenRoethig]

this is true. Apple has never really had a very affordable average run of the mill monitor to pair with it's portables.

They did have the studio line of consumer displays.

 

[Digital Skunk]

They did have the studio line of consumer displays.

True, but they were still in the $999 price range for the LCDs and $500 for the CRTs.

I was more so referring to those who know full well that Blu-Ray offers greater picture detail yet still claim the download-able content to be superior.

I agree wholeheartedly, I am talking about those same people at times.

And I agree with you on the FCP tip. I am pissed off that Apple hasn't updated either of its DVD authoring software to support Blue Ray burning.

 

[Digital Skunk]

Oops! Double post!

 

[j5045096]

I agree wholeheartedly, I am talking about those same people at times.

I don't think any of us have said the digital downloads are superior to Blu Ray...the consensus seems to be that Blu Ray is another technology you're locked into, just like records, then tapes, then cds, then dvds...that's what people hate about DRM as well! Yes, broadband speeds may not be quite ready for 1080p downloads etc. but they'll get there. ...and so digital lets you do more--you can watch it on a tv or a computer or a portable and when the technology of digital gets better for the most part the current hardware is already ready to meet/accomodate it. That's why it's appealing. ...and it can be easily backed up; you can't scratch it or damage it physically; you can store massive amounts of it, even on portables.

So yeah, Blu Ray looks awesome. I am wowed when I walk into Best Buy and they're demonstrating it's capabilities, but there will always come something better that will render the previous technology obsolete, and then what? That's why digital is a safer bet for most of us.

 

[Digital Skunk]

I don't think any of us have said the digital downloads are superior to Blu Ray...the consensus seems to be that Blu Ray is another technology you're locked into, just like records, then tapes, then cds, then dvds...that's what people hate about DRM as well! Yes, broadband speeds may not be quite ready for 1080p downloads etc. but they'll get there. ...and so digital lets you do more--you can watch it on a tv or a computer or a portable and when the technology of digital gets better for the most part the current hardware is already ready to meet/accomodate it. That's why it's appealing. ...and it can be easily backed up; you can't scratch it or damage it physically; you can store massive amounts of it, even on portables.

So yeah, Blu Ray looks awesome. I am wowed when I walk into Best Buy and they're demonstrating it's capabilities, but there will always come something better that will render the previous technology obsolete, and then what? That's why digital is a safer bet for most of us.

Very true, but you can also be locked into a certain compression format and/or quality. If you downloaded a crap load of SD movies it you were set, then HD came and now your movies look like crap on such a hi def screen. HD won't get replaced anytime soon, but the same thing can happen either way, with downloads and optical/physical media.

I never said anyone is suggesting that digital downloads are superior, but some on the site have debated in favor of DDownloads as being the future, and optical being dead, and that's not the case just yet.

For small software titles up to the entire Adobe Suite sure, but for HD movies and larger software titles not yet.

 

[poxonyou]

So yeah, Blu Ray looks awesome. I am wowed when I walk into Best Buy and they're demonstrating it's capabilities, but there will always come something better that will render the previous technology obsolete, and then what? That's why digital is a safer bet for most of us.

Commercially available Blu-Ray discs currently max out at 50GB. However, Pioneer, and others, have made Blu-Ray discs capable of holding 400GB of data, and Pioneer claims it'll have a 1TB disc in a year or so. Of course, it takes a year before these things become commercially available. Anyway, point is, Blu-Ray is capable of holding too much data for digital downloads to compete for some time. If speeds increase and everyone has 10TB hard drives, Blu-Ray will be offering higher quality movies on 1TB discs, 2-4 times 1080p as those display technologies have been promised to hit the market in a couple of years. DVD on the other hand maxed out at 9GB.

Also, I think many people will be unhappy about buying poorer quality digital (without a hard copy) content when there's a higher quality, hard copy alternative, Blu-Ray. Digital downloads for their iPods is one thing, but top quality movies for their 1080p TVs is a whole different thing.

 

[j5045096]

Very true, but you can also be locked into a certain compression format and/or quality. If you downloaded a crap load of SD movies it you were set, then HD came and now your movies look like crap on such a hi def screen. HD won't get replaced anytime soon, but the same thing can happen either way, with downloads and optical/physical media.

I agree with you on this point and while I'm not a "videophile" I am definitely picky about the sound quality of my audio files -- I don't use OGG or uncompressed .wav or anything but 128kbps is no good to me, in any format (AAC, mp3 etc.). SO, I bought very few downloads from the iTunes music store until iTunes plus came along. And now that the majority of the store is 256kbps AAC I am more than satisfied with the quality. ...and I bring this up because Apple (granted for a $.30 fee) has offered upgrade options for people who bought the original low quality 128 AAC files with DRM...for $.30 they can get non-DRM 256AAC files that can play on multiple players, computers etc.

Now, it may be a pipe dream given that the download sizes of "upgraded" video files would be massive compared to a 4 minute song, but lets just ask the question, what if? What if the model of the iTunes store was to allow future upgrades to higher resolution/higher quality for a small fee? Wouldn't that at least help the cause? I'm optimistic that this is the manner in which they'll proceed.

Now, I do agree with the poster who talked about the potential of Blu Ray to be 400GB storage sizes - that obviously is massive and really opens up the gap between Blu Ray and digital downloads, but one thing we really haven't focused on with Blu Ray and Apple is this: what does Apple stand to gain by offering Blu Ray hardware? And don't fire back with "well people will stop buying Apple products" -- maybe some will, but the majority of Apple customers follow Apple and let Apple set the pace of their technological advances. What I mean is...I have a 3g phone now--why? Because Apple made it. It meant nothing to me that Samsung and LG have had 3g speed phones--why? Because I'm not loyal to their brand. I have Firewire 800 now. Why? Because Apple included it. I've used 400 for years. My MB Pro only has 800 on it--I just ordered an 800 to 4pin 400 cable for my video camera; I moved into that technology because Apple led me there.

Apple makes their money on their cut from the iTunes store - i mean millions and millions of downloads and Apple gets a piece of each and every one. What vested interest does Apple have in Blu Ray? They aren't one of the inventors. No money there. They aren't a movie studio. No money there. If people buy Blu Ray they buy less from the iTunes store. That equals lower revenue/profit stream for Apple=not good. And the one downside is that there's a chance that some people will go buy a Dell or HP that has Blu Ray, which probably isn't likely anyway; they'll just complain a lot and then end up staying with Apple anyway. And to close one more door: even if Psystar ends up winning it's case isn't it true that OSX does not have support for Blu Ray read/write, meaning that a computer with OSX loaded onto it and a Blu Ray player installed won't be able to access the Blu Ray functionality via OSX?

I'm telling you: Apple has weighed the options; I mean if I were Apple you wouldn't be seeing Blu Ray, simply based on the factors above. Call it a monopoly; call it what you want, but most of us buy into it willingly.

 

[SactoGuy18]

I still think there is a good chance Apple will offer a BD-RE drive option on the new iMacs.

Remember, even the Mini DisplayPort spec supports HDCP, so with the rest of the computer hardware already HDCP compatible all Apple needs is a low-profile BD-RE drive (those are about to hit the market) and a few add-on software updates in MacOS X 10.5.x and 10.6 to make the new iMacs capable of playing back Blu-ray discs and recording on BD-R and BD-RE media. Not to mention the new Cinema Display monitors capable of playing back HDCP-protected video, too.

 

[Tallest Skil]

I still think there is a good chance Apple will offer a BD-RE drive option on the new iMacs.

"Bag of hurt."

In DRM, in them having to pay for it, in the restrictions it will make Apple place on us, in that they'll never offer it because they have the iTunes Store, in that we won't see it before 2015.

 

[kabunaru]

"Bag of hurt."

In DRM, in them having to pay for it, in the restrictions it will make Apple place on us, in that they'll never offer it because they have the iTunes Store, in that we won't see it before 2015.

By 2015 there would be something better than Blu-ray, wouldn't there?

 

[Tallest Skil]

By 2015 there would be something better than Blu-ray, wouldn't there?

Mmm... not really.

400GB Blu-ray disks go into production in 2012, Terabytes in '13 or so.

There's nothing else lined up that will match price until about 2015.

 

[xbjllb]

You're right - I don't have real money. I have a 2 year old and a one week old. Any extra money I have goes into college savings funds for them and for buying diapers. I'm actually pretty amazed you made that statement; it's one of the more arrogant things I've heard in my life time. But enjoy your Blu Ray - I hope it does as well as the other technology you put your worth in about 15 years ago (Laser Disc).

I guess If I had the time in a day to warrant a 65" Plasma TV I guess my life would like a little bit different. But enjoy yours - sounds like you've arrived.

Congratulations on the kids and thanks. I've worked VERY hard my entire life, and feel I have "arrived," in that I have pretty much everything I need, except a Mac Pro that burns and supports Blu-ray. I don't watch my plasma that much, but I do enjoy a good movie now and again.

On Blu-ray and the occasional HD-DVD. I also demo Blu-ray videos I've produced for clients on it as well, after I've authored and proofed them them on WINDOZE, as Mr. Jobs feels what is an essential daily part of my business is a "bag of hurt" because it can't easily be pirated and folks like you see no need for it.

I hope one day you'll achieve similar success or whatever it is that floats your boat.

 

[xbjllb]

I wholeheartedly agree... why people profess that the lossy compressed video garbage that Apple is releasing from their store is by any means a worthy evolutionary step on from the quality offered by Blu-Ray is beyond me.

Once the infrastructure of the the internet can support 50Mb+ speeds worldwide and we can download content which isn't so compressed, then maybe that will be the end of optical media. Until that day, get your finger out of your ass Apple and add Blu-Ray as a BTO to your product lines!

Amen!

 

[schnee]

Sorry, I don't wanna be there
...
You go ahead and have fun in your dream world, and if Apple keeps losing the plot like they did before, well, there's the whole wide world of Linux on machines that are every which way the equal and better of anything Apple offers, hardware-wise, for a fraction of the price.

I don't necessarily want to be there either, but that's the Apple value proposition. The individual parts aren't the best. It's the way they're put together to make an integrated solution that stands out.

You say I'm in the 'dreamworld', but let me put it to you this way. Apple has never had the cheapest or fastest offerings. NEVER. If you say that Apple's going to fall to Linux, well join the club of every analyst who's said that for the last 20 years.

If you're comfortable with Linux and consider speed bang/buck the top priority, then go for it, you're probably better off that way. Just realize that Apple has never catered to that audience, and never will. No judgment, it's just how they roll.

 

[xbjllb]

"Bag of hurt."

In DRM, in them having to pay for it, in the restrictions it will make Apple place on us, in that they'll never offer it because they have the iTunes Store, in that we won't see it before 2015.

And Apple will have lost EVERY VIDEO PRODUCER by then.

They've lost 25-30% of them already with their shortsighted arrogance and catering to the iCrap crowd who will soon leave them for something cheaper and flashier.

 

[ccuk]

And Apple will have lost EVERY VIDEO PRODUCER by then.

They've lost 25-30% of them already with their shortsighted arrogance and catering to the iCrap crowd who will soon leave them for something cheaper and flashier.

This is my concern. I use Final Cut Studio daily... and to be frank, the lack of updates or communiqué with regards to when/if it will be updated and the apparent lack of Blu-Ray on the horizon is making me look at other products. If I am doing it, I can guarantee others in bigger studios are also.

The same can be said of these new displays. I am pretty sure that they will bring out a new 20" and a new 30" and both will be Mini DisplayPort with the launch of a new Mac Mini, iMac and Mac Pro which will carry... you guessed it, Mini DisplayPort. That is fine on a consumer oriented product line, but on a Pro line it is unacceptable, DVI is friendly and abundant whereas Mini DisplayPort simply is not yet.

 

[SactoGuy18]

And Apple will have lost EVERY VIDEO PRODUCER by then.

They've lost 25-30% of them already with their shortsighted arrogance and catering to the iCrap crowd who will soon leave them for something cheaper and flashier.

I think this is also very short-sighted because a lot of people would love to be able to master a Blu-ray disc on an Apple Mac Pro with Final Cut Studio. Given that the hardware is ready to support HDCP with only a few additions to MacOS X and a BD-RE optical drive, it won't take much to create a mastering workstation for Blu-ray discs on a Mac Pro. As such, you either have to do it on a high-end dedicated Unix workstation or do on on a high-end PC running Windows XP or Vista.

 

[michaelsviews]

The reason why people want to suffer with limited quality it because they just don't know any better. It's like it was with MP4 audio when the iPod first came out with iTunes. There where millions of people asking if they should continue to buy CDs or download from the internet.

We all know how that went.

I agree with the Blue Ray supporters, but I would never wait for Apple to wise up on that front. I'd grab a REAL media center PC with BR and be happy.

And you base this statement on ? Did you take into account COST ?

 

[kabunaru]

My idea:
1. 24" is the new 20"
2. 30" transitions to 32"
3. small chance: 40" Cinema Display but I doubt it.