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Please cite where I actually said that cameras are what make compelling photographs.

Let’s make this very simple…

To avoid your ‘a better photographer with a phone’ red herring, if the exact same photographer takes the exact same photo, which will have better image quality a smartphone or a dedicated camera with with the same size or larger sensor and high quality lens?

And to address the verb used, after the photographer decides on their composition, lighting, timing, camera settings, etc., do they have an actual photo, or is a camera required to make the photo?

"To avoid your ‘a better photographer with a phone’ red herring, "

Nice try. I never said or even suggested that.


"if the exact same photographer takes the exact same photo, which will have better image quality a smartphone or a dedicated camera with with the same size or larger sensor and high quality lens?"

That's a decision for the photographer and clearly depends upon subject matter and environment. I thought it would be very obvious that a phone camera is not the right tool for making NFL photos, or auto racing, basketball game photos, or dozens of other cases where it's important.

And it's fine letting your camera make the myriad decisions that I typically make when making photographs, as said in my previous post.


A camera is just a tool. Like brushes and oil paints an artist uses to make a painting.

Did Picaso's or Lucian Freud's paint brushes make their paintings? Did Richard Avedon's or Robert Fank's (look them up to see who they are) cameras make their photographs? In your world the answer is yes. And that's OK.

Let me know if you'd like to have a more mature discussion about photography.

Once more... if you want to say your camera is what makes your photos, that's fine. I really do believe you.
 
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"To avoid your ‘a better photographer with a phone’ red herring, "

Nice try. I never said or even suggested that.


"if the exact same photographer takes the exact same photo, which will have better image quality a smartphone or a dedicated camera with with the same size or larger sensor and high quality lens?"

That's a decision for the photographer and clearly depends upon subject matter and environment. I thought it would be very obvious that a phone camera is not the right tool for making NFL photos, or auto racing, basketball game photos, or dozens of other cases where it's important.

And it's fine letting your camera make the myriad decisions that I typically make when making photographs, as said in my previous post.


A camera is just a tool. Like brushes and oil paints an artist uses to make a painting.

Did Picaso's or Lucian Freud's paint brushes make their paintings? Did Richard Avedon's or Robert Fank's (look them up to see who they are) cameras make their photographs? In your world the answer is yes. And that's OK.

Let me know if you'd like to have a more mature discussion about photography.

Once more... if you want to say your camera is what makes your photos, that's fine. I really do believe you.

Let’s see some of your portfolio. I’m open minded, maybe your work will floor us with its superiority.
 
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Let’s see some of your portfolio. I’m open minded, maybe your work will floor us with its superiority.

Thanks, but I'm a *very* mediocre photographer. No flooring for you today.

Since you're into portfolios... how about seeing some of your photographs?
 
Thanks, but I'm a *very* mediocre photographer. No flooring for you today.

Since you're into portfolios... how about seeing some of your photographs?

That’s what I thought. People who speak with the same level of arrogance you displayed in this thread are always full of themselves.

Shame, I was ready to be impressed.
 
Based on your deflections and red herrings, I doubt that is possible.

If you leave your camera at home, can you still make a photo without it?

Nope. Just like Banksy can't make murals on buildings leaving his paints and brushes at home locked in a drawer.

Cameras are merely tools, like paints and brushes a painter uses to... wait for it... make paintings.

Perhaps you might have a more serious/mature question?

I have a question for you:

Assuming you make prints and sign them (feel free to post a couple of photos your camera made)... do you sign them as Sony a1, Lecia M11, Nikon D6, Canon 1DX MarkIII, etc as you believe it's the camera that makes photographs, and, that paints and brushes make paintings.
 
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Nope. Just like Banksy can't make murals on buildings leaving his paints and brushes at home locked in a drawer.

Cameras are merely tools, like paints and brushes a painter uses to... wait for it... make paintings.
Painters physically make the painting while cameras physically make the photo file. It's both a big difference and subtle distinction.
Perhaps you might have a more serious/mature question?
Yeah, I don't think thats possible with you.
I have a question for you:

Assuming you make prints and sign them (feel free to post a couple of photos your camera made)... do you sign them as Sony a1, Lecia M11, Nikon D6, Canon 1DX MarkIII, etc as you believe it's the camera that makes photographs, and, that paints and brushes make paintings.
I would sign them as the person who envisioned, planned, and took the photo; not as the camera which made the photo file.
 
Yeah, I don't think thats possible with you.

That smells like an oblique insult and a cop-out . Go ahead give it a try. Post a couple of your photos. I would love to see a few.

"Painters physically make the painting while cameras physically make the photo file. It's both a big difference and subtle distinction."

Yes painters and photographers Make... Brushes and paints don't have a mind of their own and make decisions as to what to do. Just as cameras don't. Something, a person, is controlling them. That's why people, not cameras, brushes, paints, etc, get the credit.

In any event... you're married to the notion that cameras, rather than photographers, make photographs. And that's OK. I really am happy for you!
 
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That smells like an oblique insult and a cop-out . Go ahead give it a try. Post a couple of your photos. I would love to see a few.

"Painters physically make the painting while cameras physically make the photo file. It's both a big difference and subtle distinction."

Yes painters and photographers Make... Brushes and paints don't have a mind of their own and make decisions as to what to do. Just as cameras don't. Something, a person, is controlling them. That's why people, not cameras, brushes, paints, etc, get the credit.

In any event... you're married to the notion that cameras, rather than photographers, make photographs. And that's OK. I really am happy for you!
The first brush stroke is akin to pressing the shutter release. Please compare your involvement after pressing the shutter release to a painter after the first brush stroke.
 
The first brush stroke is akin to pressing the shutter release. Please compare your involvement after pressing the shutter release to a painter after the first brush stroke.

Relating the amount of time a photographer uses to asses a scene, make a few dozen choices before releasing the shutter is irrelevant with respect to a painter actually making a painting from a preconceived notion. In both cases tools are used, and directed by the photographer/painter.

In both cases a great deal of thought went into the visualization and planning before a commitment was made. In both cases a decade or two of learning the craft, making mistakes, etc goes into and informs both photographers and painters.

Once more... in both cases tools are used - for the photographer it's a camera and possibly lighting, for the painter it's a set of brushes and paints. Different tools and a different medium.

As I keep repeating... I'm really glad you believe that you take and your camera makes photos for you. That's awesome! I believe differently for my own photography.

Feel free to post a couple of your camera-made photographs. I would enjoy seeing them.
 
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Apple's web site says iPhone 15 pro Max as "Up to10x optical zoom range". This a blatant lie. First there is no zoom lens but 3 prime lenses (13mm, 48mm and 120mm) that can be cropped to provide a digital zoom effect for other focal lengths. I'm not saying that the camera capabilities are bad or that it does not provide good images only that their description of what they are offering is just deliberately inaccurate.
 
Relating the amount of time a photographer uses to asses a scene, make a few dozen choices before releasing the shutter is irrelevant with respect to a painter actually making a painting from a preconceived notion. In both cases tools are used, and directed by the photographer/painter.

In both cases a great deal of thought went into the visualization and planning before a commitment was made. In both cases a decade or two of learning the craft, making mistakes, etc goes into and informs both photographers and painters.

Once more... in both cases tools are used - for the photographer it's a camera and possibly lighting, for the painter it's a set of brushes and paints. Different tools and a different medium.

As I keep repeating... I'm really glad you believe that you take and your camera makes photos for you. That's awesome! I believe differently for my own photography.

Feel free to post a couple of your camera-made photographs. I would enjoy seeing them.
Can you make a photo without your camera?
 
Can you make a photo without your camera?

Nope. And I've already answered that question multiple times.

And Banksy cannot make a mural on a building with out paint and brushes.

Just as Lang Lang and Yuja Wang cannot make music without their pianos. And a chef cannot make dinner without pots, pans, an oven, and raw food/ingredients.

People that create something need tools in order to do so. A camera is just a tool. As is a pencil, paint, brushes, a hammer, a piano, and on and on.

I'm glad you're finally acknowledging that I make photographs.

Again... I acknowledge that your camera makes your photos. And that's totally fine. For you.

I would love to see some of your photos that your camera made. Can you post a few?
 
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Does it really matter if an Apple Engineer or Representative told you "10X is hard to stabilize to our standards and it just wasn't ready yet"?
It actually sounds like an engineering answer. They didn’t say “no one can do 10x”, they just said that Apple can do 5x (plus all the things they want to do with that 5x image) very well and that if THEY were to do 10x, it would have required a tripod.

And, with having only 3 lenses while indicating that folks can only use 2 without a tripod is probably a show stopper.
 
Apple chose not to select Sony's better available sensors for iPhone 15 PM.

Why?
I’d wonder if Sony could make enough. There are a few areas where Apple can’t go with the newest of a thing because it can’t be made reliably in the numbers that Apple would need shipped. So, they go with an older reliably producible solution.
 
It actually sounds like an engineering answer. They didn’t say “no one can do 10x”, they just said that Apple can do 5x (plus all the things they want to do with that 5x image) very well and that if THEY were to do 10x, it would have required a tripod.
It may have required a zoom now but in a year or two they will improve their stabilization to be hand-held at 10X or longer. Even Samsung used a 5X before using a 10X in the following year.
 
This is 100% of the issue.

The lenses on an iPhone aren't zoom lenses, they're fixed focal length and some of them are longer reach than others. So 'optical zoom' is a misnomer, you're just switching to a lens with a longer focal length to get a narrower field of view without cropping.

A 3x magnification lens cropped to 5x will generally produce a lower quality image than a 5x magnification lens, but a 3x magnification lens cropped to 4x will produce a higher quality image than a 2x lens cropped to 4x.

There's a trade off to be made between the 3x lens on the Pro and the 5x lens on the Pro Max (and an even bigger trade off if they had used 10x instead) and neither is objectively better than the other - the right tool depends on which kinds of photos you take most of. For me, I take far more photos in the 3x-5x range than I do in the 5x+ range, so the lens options on the Pro are more useful to me than the Pro Max. A 10x lens would be cool to have for the one time a year I might use it, but the vast majority of the time it's just going to take up space that could be used for something else.

Ideally Apple would be able to make the camera configurations independent of the screen size so you could choose a Max with a 3x lens or a non-Max with a 5x lens depending on which option makes more sense for your use case. But the folks arguing that 5x is objectively better for everyone and that Apple is doing us dirty by not using it on the smaller form factor are kinda missing the point.

Super interesting. Has anyone been able to find a comparison between photos taken by an iPh 15 pro at 3x-5x vs iPh 15 PM at 3x-5x? I've not been able to as yet.
 
I wish everyone would stop talking about optical zoom. The iPhone 15 pros each have 3 prime lenses, with cropping to achieve intermediate focal lengths.
 
Super interesting. Has anyone been able to find a comparison between photos taken by an iPh 15 pro at 3x-5x vs iPh 15 PM at 3x-5x? I've not been able to as yet.
This article has a graph showing pixels vs focal length of the 15 pros.
 
This article has a graph showing pixels vs focal length of the 15 pros.
Good comparison! I like that they provide the thumbnails in the corner because, while there is definitely a pixel peep difference, but as they say, a user would need to have both phones taking the same pictures to really be aware of the difference. The drop in quality isn’t that substantial.
 
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