The part about iPad being the future of computing? That was at the original iPad Pro keynote I think in 2015? They marketed it hard as not just a larger iPad. They used the term “future of computing”
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
iPad Pro Apple has given up on the iPad
- Thread starter Retskrad
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
375: ‘No False Humidity’, With Jason Snell
Poddavsnitt · The Talk Show With John Gruber · 2023-05-23 · 2 tim 11 minpodcasts.apple.com
Starting at 1:33:40
I just listened to the latest episode of The Talk Show With John Gruber where he had Jason Snell as a guest. They discussed why Apple released Final Cut Pro for iPad now all of a sudden and they went on to talk about the status of iPad in Apple’s lineup today.
They made some interesting points that I wanted to share and hear your thoughts on.
They talked about how everyone at Apple thought iPad was going phase out the Mac in mid 2010s, but when Apple silicon arrived on the Mac, it completely changed everything. The iPad is now basically just another product in Apple’s lineup and the Mac has taken the spot back as the second most important Apple product (after the iPhone, of course).
They also talked about how iPad as a product is not really “necessary” and that Apple doesn’t know what to do with the it. They compared the first 10 years of the Mac and the iPad and how stark the difference was. Gruber argues that the iPad has not changed computing at all compared to the Mac and iPhone.
Thoughts?
I have an 2022 12.9 iPad Pro, which my wife gifted me, a MacBook Pro 16" and iPhone and the iPad Pro is honestly the least essential device of the three. I would go as far to say that iPad Pro and the AirPods Max are the two least essential and most overpriced Apple products.
If I want to consume social media, music or browse the web, 10/10 times I just grab my iPhone 14 Pro Max because the entire world is optimised for mobile screens. The iPad takes the iPhone UI and just makes everything bigger which makes navigating the UI gruesome. It's a nightmare to type on the big iPad on-screen keyboard and the iPad is heavy as hell which means you can't hold it for long.
When it comes to the Mac, it's significantly better than the iPad in terms of multitasking, browsing the web and you have access to desktop Chrome because the world is optimised for Chrome. Then the Mac has significantly better battery life, less Mini-LED blooming, less bugs, better apps.
I would honestly only recommend the iPad Pro to people who have a lot of disposable income to burn and you have a job that makes use of annotating PDF's and note-taking. I'm studying at University and I know a lot of people who use iPads and I've never seen a person be more productive than a typical laptop. I guess the tablets in general is a mystery to me...
I have the 2021 12.9 and a 14PM and would disagree with you on the gruesome UI and your final recommendation. I'll grab my iPad over the phone most of the time.
375: ‘No False Humidity’, With Jason Snell
Poddavsnitt · The Talk Show With John Gruber · 2023-05-23 · 2 tim 11 min
Starting at 1:33:40
I just listened to the latest episode of The Talk Show With John Gruber where he had Jason Snell as a guest. They discussed why Apple released Final Cut Pro for iPad now all of a sudden and they went on to talk about the status of iPad in Apple’s lineup today.
They made some interesting points that I wanted to share and hear your thoughts on.
They talked about how everyone at Apple thought iPad was going phase out the Mac in mid 2010s, but when Apple silicon arrived on the Mac, it completely changed everything. The iPad is now basically just another product in Apple’s lineup and the Mac has taken the spot back as the second most important Apple product (after the iPhone, of course).
They also talked about how iPad as a product is not really “necessary” and that Apple doesn’t know what to do with the it. They compared the first 10 years of the Mac and the iPad and how stark the difference was. Gruber argues that the iPad has not changed computing at all compared to the Mac and iPhone.
Thoughts?
I have an 2022 12.9 iPad Pro, which my wife gifted me, a MacBook Pro 16" and iPhone and the iPad Pro is honestly the least essential device of the three. I would go as far to say that iPad Pro and the AirPods Max are the two least essential and most overpriced Apple products.
If I want to consume social media, music or browse the web, 10/10 times I just grab my iPhone 14 Pro Max because the entire world is optimised for mobile screens. The iPad takes the iPhone UI and just makes everything bigger which makes navigating the UI gruesome. It's a nightmare to type on the big iPad on-screen keyboard and the iPad is heavy as hell which means you can't hold it for long.
When it comes to the Mac, it's significantly better than the iPad in terms of multitasking, browsing the web and you have access to desktop Chrome because the world is optimised for Chrome. Then the Mac has significantly better battery life, less Mini-LED blooming, less bugs, better apps.
I would honestly only recommend the iPad Pro to people who have a lot of disposable income to burn and you have a job that makes use of annotating PDF's and note-taking. I'm studying at University and I know a lot of people who use iPads and I've never seen a person be more productive than a typical laptop. I guess the tablets in general is a mystery to me...
My view is that Apple hasn't so much "given up" on the iPad than it is treating it as a mature product line that can contribute to revenues as long as development and manufacturing costs are kept to a minimum (in business strategy, this is often referred to as the cash cow phase).
I agree that tablets, due to the massive success of the iPhone, occupy a strange spot in Apple's product lineup. My guess is that Apple makes enough money from iPad sales and believes there is a sufficient halo effect created for users whose first Apple product is an iPad to continue making iPads. Plus with Apple's ongoing push into services, iPad might be viewed as a driver of subscription signups and renewals. From this perspective, it could make sense for Apple to offer AppleTV and iPad hardware bundles. Then two marginal product lines could help each other sell more units and contribute more to Apple's current corporate strategy.
Last edited:
Just their opinion, no matter how whiz-bangy their analysis is.
Could Apple do more with the iPad? Sure.
But IMO it delivers a different experience than a desktop and certainly different than a mobile phone.
There’s overlap to be sure, but it’s ridiculous to spend all your on-line time staring at a relatively small phone screen, and who wants to be tied to a desktop or even haul arounda laptop?
Could Apple do more with the iPad? Sure.
But IMO it delivers a different experience than a desktop and certainly different than a mobile phone.
There’s overlap to be sure, but it’s ridiculous to spend all your on-line time staring at a relatively small phone screen, and who wants to be tied to a desktop or even haul arounda laptop?
It was clear to me that when the pricing of iPad Pros met and exceeded that of Macbooks and Macbook Pros but that the functionality of iPad OS hadn't made advancements respective to the hardware advancements, that Apple had "jumped the shark" with everything but the entry level iPads.
This was compounded by the exorbitant pricing for cases, keyboards, and Pencil 2.
Sure, there are many who find value in a top tier iPad Pro configuration, but I suspect that a good percentage of those who do aren't using those iPad Pros in ways that required iPad Pros (in other words, the things that they do could be done on non-Pro iPads).
Apple will continue to milk this gravy train until the goose stops laying golden eggs.
This was compounded by the exorbitant pricing for cases, keyboards, and Pencil 2.
Sure, there are many who find value in a top tier iPad Pro configuration, but I suspect that a good percentage of those who do aren't using those iPad Pros in ways that required iPad Pros (in other words, the things that they do could be done on non-Pro iPads).
Apple will continue to milk this gravy train until the goose stops laying golden eggs.
A clever move was making the 12.9 size available only as a Pro - I want 12.9" so I'm locked in to the Pro series.
Surely this topic can end. Folks who want the iPad to be a Mac can just buy a Mac, and that’s it.
The simple fact that the poll in which this topic has been extensively rehashed with the same sides existing over and over again has resulted in an absolute blowout in favour of not obliterating the iPad with MacOS is enough to end this one, or at least, alternatively, have all of the threads be part of the megathread.
Folks, sell your iPads and buy Macs. Please.
Some people have been blinded by the word pro, it means nothing to me in my uses with my 11" pro, even my non tech wife has a 2018 11" pro and she is no pro lol, a 12 pro max too, no one wants a iPad with a button, or crappy speakers, or no usb-c in 2023.
You don't use a keyboard case? All of our iPads are in cases with keyboards.
And you have a touchscreen.
Why did Apple release FCP on the ipad? A better question why did they choose the way they did? Has no one found it very confusing the way the release of the news sort of happened, no keynote, just some random Tuesday, a month before the biggest Apple event of the year???
AppleInsider claimed it was due to Apple wanting to trace leakers of secrets, so staff were told certain information, unique to each staff member and if that information came back to Apple through the media, they knew who within Apple was leaking...But there is a problem.. What do you as Apple want leaked? When do you do this trace??
Apple decided FCP on the Ipad, it was according to what has been published, FCP on the ipad was going to be a 2024 WWDC announcement, that maybe it was going to be mentioned in 2023 WWDC keynote, but it seems likely 2024, and 2025 for Logic...
So Apple had to have something for the press to publish, they needed two goals, 1-something to publish that would ensure publication, FCP on Ipad is what everyone and their gran has been pleading for, for a decade.. So they went for that, and 2- to ensure authenticity, had to announce a date, 23 May, again, random... Along with the FCP 1066 update...
Once they had the plan, the product, the downloads ready, off to find the mole.. They did, fired her, she was revealing secrets to her brother how published...
Has he had revealed dates and what, Apple had to follow through, and this they did, and the app is far from ready.. No SD card on card editing, no SSD on SSD external editing, no voice over, many obvious features, and then subscription, now on 2 really obscure apps??
What is the $5 a month paying for? The $50 annual fee? There is no external extra storage allowed on a separate icloud account that is linked to the ipad..What exactly is the subscription paying for?? It cannot be development, it cannot be for updates, as no other larger app, has this mandatory fee attached...
I am only trying to question, to understand, to figure why? Why now, I am sure that WWDC 2023 keynote will answer some if not all, but the lack of any sort of statement from Apple in regards the sting, or the lack of features that seem you would think would be obvious on the app... Just questions...
I don't get the $5 or the annual $50 for the 2 apps, it just makes no sense.. Adding features to Garageband would have been maybe a bit more reasonable, that makes more sense, adding a 2nd video editing in app editor to Garageband, so you have all the features of an editor, and audio, and married to Apple'e love of music, it has a sort of sweet marriage... This on subscription + icloud+ access to a wider library of effects/music/media for $5 or $50 YES, 100% no issues...
But $5/$50 for what was released 23rd May 2023? How does that make sense, unless it is the start of something to come.. Subs for all apps, you can only use icloud, which requires an in app purchase... This makes me worried, I am somewhat saddened that no one has questioned motives.. Just me...
Wait and see... only 11 or so days until 2023 WWDC...
AppleInsider claimed it was due to Apple wanting to trace leakers of secrets, so staff were told certain information, unique to each staff member and if that information came back to Apple through the media, they knew who within Apple was leaking...But there is a problem.. What do you as Apple want leaked? When do you do this trace??
Apple decided FCP on the Ipad, it was according to what has been published, FCP on the ipad was going to be a 2024 WWDC announcement, that maybe it was going to be mentioned in 2023 WWDC keynote, but it seems likely 2024, and 2025 for Logic...
So Apple had to have something for the press to publish, they needed two goals, 1-something to publish that would ensure publication, FCP on Ipad is what everyone and their gran has been pleading for, for a decade.. So they went for that, and 2- to ensure authenticity, had to announce a date, 23 May, again, random... Along with the FCP 1066 update...
Once they had the plan, the product, the downloads ready, off to find the mole.. They did, fired her, she was revealing secrets to her brother how published...
Has he had revealed dates and what, Apple had to follow through, and this they did, and the app is far from ready.. No SD card on card editing, no SSD on SSD external editing, no voice over, many obvious features, and then subscription, now on 2 really obscure apps??
What is the $5 a month paying for? The $50 annual fee? There is no external extra storage allowed on a separate icloud account that is linked to the ipad..What exactly is the subscription paying for?? It cannot be development, it cannot be for updates, as no other larger app, has this mandatory fee attached...
I am only trying to question, to understand, to figure why? Why now, I am sure that WWDC 2023 keynote will answer some if not all, but the lack of any sort of statement from Apple in regards the sting, or the lack of features that seem you would think would be obvious on the app... Just questions...
I don't get the $5 or the annual $50 for the 2 apps, it just makes no sense.. Adding features to Garageband would have been maybe a bit more reasonable, that makes more sense, adding a 2nd video editing in app editor to Garageband, so you have all the features of an editor, and audio, and married to Apple'e love of music, it has a sort of sweet marriage... This on subscription + icloud+ access to a wider library of effects/music/media for $5 or $50 YES, 100% no issues...
But $5/$50 for what was released 23rd May 2023? How does that make sense, unless it is the start of something to come.. Subs for all apps, you can only use icloud, which requires an in app purchase... This makes me worried, I am somewhat saddened that no one has questioned motives.. Just me...
Wait and see... only 11 or so days until 2023 WWDC...
Yes, agreed on that, it was exactly the same piss poor mis handling of FCP 10.0.0, which required a withdrawal, and a rewrite and relaunch of FCPX 10.1.0...Which up to FCP 10.6.6 is missing so many features...
What gives? … complain about no pro apps on the iPad, they release pro apps on the iPad and still gets criticize about it. It’s as if users think Apple plans to release the app and leave it as is, obviously… there‘s going to be updates.
Well, would you rather it be $200-300? I think that would remove ALOT of people from giving it a fair chance. Federico made a good point… having it tied to a $5 subscription gives users an opportunity to actually use it.
I decided to go with the $50 annually fee and haven’t given a second thought.
I can complain as much as i damn well please. Sucks. Sucks suckkssssssss. Like that? I was incredibly hyped for Final Cut for ipad to the point i was having to defend the subscription pricing on here under the framing “if its a pro app, its worth it. I dont even care”. I bought a brand new m2 iPad Pro 12.9 on the DAY of launch a few days ago. I’ve waited for Final Cut for ipad for at minimum 8 years.
Only to find even the most basic features even free iMovie has, this doesnt. Top of that, crashing, laggy timeline, terrible color grading, NO voiceover function? REALLY? Terrible keyframing. I could go on. I dont like to complain. But my god dude. A decade of waiting for this and for it to suck this bad, what am i supposed to do? Kiss Apple’s butt the entire time? I’m not gonna go on and on about it. But initial first impressions? Yeah. They’re not good. And I shouldn’t have to sugarcoat it because you cant handle seeing people complain. I’m not just being a hater. I’m just sharing my opinion which is entirely what this message board is for
It’s just “pro” hardware-wise but not from functionality perspective. The pro has better in display, ram, etc but not specific built for pro functionality.
Edit: probably because Apple’s root is hardware company.
Last edited:
Aye, tbh… it doesn’t really matter to me. I was just making a point… that critics wouldn’t be satisfied regardless. I use it and plan on using for the foreseeable future.
Haven’t had any crashing from my limited use… but I’ll like to think the features you want will be added in the future. And my first impression? I think it’s fairly good start (could be better), like the integration with the Apple Pencil and the jog wheel… waiting for more plugins to be introduced.
I remember when FC on mac first came out it was the same thing. it was very stripped down vs the version it replaced. I’m sure we’ll see many updates coming in the near future that will improve it and bring it more in line with the Mac version
12.9 iPad is my most used device. I operate a small business, around 30 employees, that runs an international school and relief agency. The iPad is our most used and requested device. Having unlimited data in the field is irreplaceable. I can go live, connecting in way my MacBook Pro can’t. Unless the MacBook grows a back camera and onboard data, I can’t see ever going back. Clearly our needs do not represent everyones. Having options is a good thing.
Some people will never be satisfied. I made this point at the announcement when they shifted from “iPad doesn’t have pro apps!” To “ok it’s got a pro app but it’s $5! Apple is doomed”. Yeah. I get that rhetoric. It’s silly. And some people just ooze drama.
And really. This whole thing just reminds me when Final Cut went from Final Cut to Final Cut Pro X. Massive backlash. Everybody freaked out. People boycotted and said Apple lost their damn minds. Then over the years Apple updated and improved it and now it’s the renowned app we all know and love.
This will probably be the same. From the sound of it from the Gruber podcast, they haven’t even worked on this long and didn’t put much effort into it. And it shows. I could make a list of things it’s missing that just…should be there. Like if you were developing a paint app and you didn’t include an eraser, it would be like…what the hell? There’s just some things that should just be there from the start without the excuse “it’s a new app. Give it a few years”. Like we’ve waited a decade. Wait some more huh? Ok. Sure.
Will be interesting to see plug ins be added
Yeah, because you looking at it from the mindset of “hey it’s been 8 years waiting for Final Cut Pro.” But I think they started the process when M1 was introduced on the iPad back in 2021 since it’s only for those models.
I’m curious these features that’s missing… have you tried the DaVinci app? Because I’ve been a LumaFusion user for the most part (bought it years ago), downloaded DaVinci… haven’t really took a deep dive into it.
It is these feelings of anger, of disappointment, of frustration, yes a decade of waiting, the ipad has been around for well north of a decade, it has worked with imovie, garageband, then now this really low rent version, that is what I call scam... If you want to edit fcp then you best off buying the 1 or 2 TB SSD on the 12 inch ipad, and buy the pencil for the extra fearures not found on standard installs without the added pencil...
It is like buying a car, you cannot get all the features without paying $50 000 worth of add on's...to make the GPS work..We hate these tactics...
I really have no problem with a reasonable app, on affordable devices, that has access to a library of media for a reasonable fee... After all, it is this library that developers will load their work onto, we buy, they get a small percentage...
That is great, I love it, it is a great system, but here in South Africa, the $ to Rand is almost R20 to the Dollar, the social grant is R320, less than $20 a month, the ipad most suitable for editing fcp on the ipad, costs around R70 000, that is beyond 60% of the population annual income..
The number of Starbucks coffees you would have to not drink to save for the 1TB SSD 16GB RAM, 12 inch laptop with keyboard and pencil is how much in the USA?? $2.25....the ipad pro 12 inch with folio keyboard, pencil all in $2200.. or 1000 cups of coffee at starbucks...
Here in South Africa.. that same setup would cost R29 each.. the ipad pro with folio keyboard, pencil is R53 000...it is 1827 cups of Starbucks... almost 2x times more expensive..the exchange rate does not help...
So for you in the USA, 25 cups is not all that expensive, here it is 50 cups, and I don't use Starbucks, it is just too expensive for what you are buying...
So yes I have fomo, natural and normal human response, I am a professional video editor, and I simply cannot afford almost R55 000 or R70 000 for the 2 TB with wifi only...
Apple has no idea of prices around the world, if the price was decent, and the system of icloud+media library, and a functional decent imovie+garagaband hybrid, instead of fcp on the ipad, and the ipad themselves were reasonable then maybe I would love to buy, not now....
I don't think the fcp on ipad was ready on the 23rd, no way, it shows the lack of development, why it took a decade? No idea, why the subscription? Makes no sense.. Not sure what you are getting for $5 a month... That to me just sets off all sorts of scam thoughts, why now? Why introduce a subcription for 2 tiny obscure apps??? Questions...
It is like buying a car, you cannot get all the features without paying $50 000 worth of add on's...to make the GPS work..We hate these tactics...
I really have no problem with a reasonable app, on affordable devices, that has access to a library of media for a reasonable fee... After all, it is this library that developers will load their work onto, we buy, they get a small percentage...
That is great, I love it, it is a great system, but here in South Africa, the $ to Rand is almost R20 to the Dollar, the social grant is R320, less than $20 a month, the ipad most suitable for editing fcp on the ipad, costs around R70 000, that is beyond 60% of the population annual income..
The number of Starbucks coffees you would have to not drink to save for the 1TB SSD 16GB RAM, 12 inch laptop with keyboard and pencil is how much in the USA?? $2.25....the ipad pro 12 inch with folio keyboard, pencil all in $2200.. or 1000 cups of coffee at starbucks...
Here in South Africa.. that same setup would cost R29 each.. the ipad pro with folio keyboard, pencil is R53 000...it is 1827 cups of Starbucks... almost 2x times more expensive..the exchange rate does not help...
So for you in the USA, 25 cups is not all that expensive, here it is 50 cups, and I don't use Starbucks, it is just too expensive for what you are buying...
So yes I have fomo, natural and normal human response, I am a professional video editor, and I simply cannot afford almost R55 000 or R70 000 for the 2 TB with wifi only...
Apple has no idea of prices around the world, if the price was decent, and the system of icloud+media library, and a functional decent imovie+garagaband hybrid, instead of fcp on the ipad, and the ipad themselves were reasonable then maybe I would love to buy, not now....
I don't think the fcp on ipad was ready on the 23rd, no way, it shows the lack of development, why it took a decade? No idea, why the subscription? Makes no sense.. Not sure what you are getting for $5 a month... That to me just sets off all sorts of scam thoughts, why now? Why introduce a subcription for 2 tiny obscure apps??? Questions...
Hmm I went back and re-listened to the original iPad keynote, and unless the video I watched didn’t include that part (even though the video was over an hour long), that phrase wasn’t said. They only introduced it as an “in between” device. The closest to that phrase I heard was that they want it in as many people’s hands as possible. I’ve heard people call iPad the “future of computing” many times over the years, but strangely I don't recall ever hearing that from Apple directly, I realized. And I’m pretty sure I’ve seen and heard all the marketing for the iPad. So while I’m sure it’s very possible Apple said it at some point, I’m very curious to know when it was and in what context (and why I don’t recall it).
Not your responsibility to find the quote for me of course. But if anyone here remembers it off hand, I’d appreciate a link or reference.
It's anecdotal because it's just my own experience, but I've had multiple tablets: Asus, Samsung, Linx, Microsoft and while they all did certain things well (except for the Samsung and Linx because they were both horribly underpowered), they weren't particularly useful. For just about anything except for a quick email or Netflix, I still used my laptop/desktop.
Then I got an iPad Air 3 - and it completely changed how I see and use tablets. It became my go-to couch computer, my ebook reader, I used it for sheet music, games... and I realized that very often, my laptop would just sit there, unused, for days. Which had been unthinkable before.
Of course, certain things I just can't do on an iPad. Mind you, there are certain things I can't do on a Mac and need a Windows PC for, too.
But for me personally, the iPad has changed a whole bunch of workflows drastically.
Then I got an iPad Air 3 - and it completely changed how I see and use tablets. It became my go-to couch computer, my ebook reader, I used it for sheet music, games... and I realized that very often, my laptop would just sit there, unused, for days. Which had been unthinkable before.
Of course, certain things I just can't do on an iPad. Mind you, there are certain things I can't do on a Mac and need a Windows PC for, too.
But for me personally, the iPad has changed a whole bunch of workflows drastically.
Some tech nerds want a touchscreen Mac and are salty that the iPad hasn't sufficiently morphed into one. Within its remit of being an affordable, long-supported and easy-to-use computer for most everyday things, I can't think of anything better than an iPad.
The long-term game of FCP for iPad is aimed at is very clear to me: TikTokers and casual content-creators who don't need the complexity/functionality of MacOS and the expense of buying FCP outright. An M1 Air 5 will do for the casual Tiktoker (despite 64GB storage limitations). However to fully realise this, the M1 needs to eventually find its way down to entry-level iPad.
The long-term game of FCP for iPad is aimed at is very clear to me: TikTokers and casual content-creators who don't need the complexity/functionality of MacOS and the expense of buying FCP outright. An M1 Air 5 will do for the casual Tiktoker (despite 64GB storage limitations). However to fully realise this, the M1 needs to eventually find its way down to entry-level iPad.
Per Tim Cook:
This was mention back on September in 2015 at an Apple Event. If you care to check it out it… he states it around the 15:30 park.
Last edited: