iPhone X Apple is losing its mainstream, non-fan core with the X

[cyb3rdud3]

Far too much to go through here. I included the VAT price because that is what we pay, there is no avoiding it and all recommended retail prices include VAT. Whether it is 800 odd quid without VAT is irrelevant.

You can get free iPhones now if you have a £125 per month tariff which covers the cost of the handset with the tariff. How much was your tariff when you were getting a free iPhone? I’ve never found a free iPhone on a £25 per month deal because no carrier gives away a free iPhone and never has, they’ve always absorbed the cost. You either pay a fee upfront as most do or you raise the monthly tariff, you’re paying the same amount either way.

??? You compare the cost of items pre tax. The tax isn’t for Apple to keep it simply doesn’t make any logical sense to make a comparison including domestic tax. And no, not all legal entities have to pay the tax, that is yet another argument that really doesn’t stand up against scrutiny.

Sure you always pay for it someway, that is why it is called subsidised. The only thing that is truly free is the sun that comes up. Doesn’t cost you a penny.

The cost of the contract is irrelevant without stating what you get in return. The concept is called total cost of ownership. Either way, you repeatedly stated that no where outside the USA they do subsidised phones, that is blatantly not true. I really don’t understand how you can even begin making such a statement.

 

[Shanghaichica]

??? You compare the cost of items pre tax. The tax isn’t for Apple to keep it simply doesn’t make any logical sense to make a comparison including domestic tax. And no, not all legal entities have to pay the tax, that is yet another argument that really doesn’t stand up against scrutiny.

Sure you always pay for it someway, that is why it is called subsidised. The only thing that is truly free is the sun that comes up. Doesn’t cost you a penny.

The cost of the contract is irrelevant without stating what you get in return. The concept is called total cost of ownership. Either way, you repeatedly stated that no where outside the USA they do subsidised phones, that is blatantly not true. I really don’t understand how you can even begin making such a statement.

Our tax (VAT) is always added into the advertised price. So the concept of having an advertised price which increases when you get to the check out is an alien concept to us. I can’t speak for other countries but in the UK we’ve never been able to get free flagship iPhones on contract. We always have to pay an upfront cost even if your monthly contract price is ridiculously high.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

??? You compare the cost of items pre tax. The tax isn’t for Apple to keep it simply doesn’t make any logical sense to make a comparison including domestic tax. And no, not all legal entities have to pay the tax, that is yet another argument that really doesn’t stand up against scrutiny.

Sure you always pay for it someway, that is why it is called subsidised. The only thing that is truly free is the sun that comes up. Doesn’t cost you a penny.

The cost of the contract is irrelevant without stating what you get in return. The concept is called total cost of ownership. Either way, you repeatedly stated that no where outside the USA they do subsidised phones, that is blatantly not true. I really don’t understand how you can even begin making such a statement.

The conversation prior to you joining was the claim carriers have offered free subsidised iPhones. In the US they were free because carriers used this to get customers in. They even did buy one get one free offers, none of which have been available in Europe as far as I am aware.

I think you thought I was saying we didn’t have any subsidies at all? No, I said we’ve never had free iPhones here, just free in their wording with extortionately high monthly tariffs. I could get a free iPhone tomorrow if I pay for it in the contract.

 

[Shanghaichica]

The conversation prior to you joining was the claim carriers have offered free subsidised iPhones. In the US they were free because carriers used this to get customers in. They even did buy one get one free offers, none of which have been available in Europe as far as I am aware.

I think you thought I was saying we didn’t have any subsidies at all? No, I said we’ve never had free iPhones here, just free in their wording with extortionately high monthly tariffs. I could get a free iPhone tomorrow if I pay for it in the contract.

Even on really high contracts you still have to pay a small amount upfront for the latest iPhone. They only time we’ve been able to get an iPhone with no upfront cost on contract is if it’s several generations old.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

Our tax (VAT) is always added into the advertised price. So the concept of having an advertised price which increases when you get to the check out is an alien concept to us. I can’t speak for other countries but in the UK we’ve never been able to get free flagship iPhones on contract. We always have to pay an upfront cost even if your monthly contract price is ridiculously high.

Yes for us in the U.K. and most European countries it is included. For our friends in the US it isn’t as they have another system. When you want to make comparisons regarding the true cost you do that pretax as the rest is outside the control of the seller. So when people make silly comments as to how greedy Apple is, that simply doesn’t stack up. That has nothing to do with defending Apple it is an industry standard practise.

Damn if you think this is bad you should look into comparing car prices across Europe. Or versus the US. We have it pretty good here in the U.K.

And yes we have.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Even on really high contracts you still have to pay a small amount upfront for the latest iPhone. They only time we’ve been able to get an iPhone with no upfront cost on contract is if it’s several generations old.

I did had a quick look and you can get the iPhone X free but the monthly costs are extortionate.

This one here you’re paying £2736 over the course of the contract. You’re simply not getting a free phone, it’s just marketed like that to make you think you’re getting it cheaper than you actually are.

The true free ones are as you say, a few generations old.

 

[Shanghaichica]

Yes for us in the U.K. and most European countries it is included. For our friends in the US it isn’t as they have another system. When you want to make comparisons regarding the true cost you do that pretax as the rest is outside the control of the seller. So when people make silly comments as to how greedy Apple is, that simply doesn’t stack up. That has nothing to do with defending Apple it is an industry standard practise.

Damn if you think this is bad you should look into comparing car prices across Europe. Or versus the US. We have it pretty good here in the U.K.

And yes we have.

Well Apple have still inflated their prices following brexit more so than other companies. Case in point the note 8 cost £869 in the UK. In the US is $960. I assume this also doesn’t include tax. But the point is it’s not 1:1 before tax as a lot of Apple products are now.
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I did had a quick look and you can get the iPhone X free but the monthly costs are extortionate.

This one here you’re paying £2736 over the course of the contract. You’re simply not getting a free phone, it’s just marketed like that to make you think you’re getting it cheaper than you actually are.

The true free ones are as you say, a few generations old.

iPhone X is the first time where paying more upfront did not really effect your monthly payment. I had a choice of £29 upfront or £129. If I paid £129 my contract was only £1 cheaper a month. I think because the phone is so expensive there aren’t that many ways the networks can spin it to entice people.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

Well Apple have still inflated their prices following brexit more so than other companies. Case in point the note 8 cost £869 in the UK. In the US is $960. I assume this also doesn’t include tax. But the point is it’s not 1:1 before tax as a lot of Apple products are now.
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iPhone X is the first time where paying more upfront did not really effect your monthly payment. I had a choice of £29 upfront or £129. If I paid £129 my contract was only £1 cheaper a month. I think because the phone is so expensive there aren’t that many ways the networks can spin it to entice people.

Brexit? Really. You are clutching straw now aren’t you. Currency always fluctuates. As I demonstrated with the calculation earlier. It’s only £84 more expensive here in the U.K. Hardly 1:1 conversion. Heck some of the MacBook models are cheaper in the U.K. then in the US. And as I’m down under at the moment I was initially surprised at how cheap some of it is, but that is purely down to the currency conversion being very reasonable to the pound sterling at the moment.

But seriously dudette, it wasn’t until a few posts ago that you didn’t know US prices didn’t include sales tax. I’d suggest you get a little bit better informed about cause and effect before jumping to conclusions.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Well Apple have still inflated their prices following brexit more so than other companies. Case in point the note 8 cost £869 in the UK. In the US is $960. I assume this also doesn’t include tax. But the point is it’s not 1:1 before tax as a lot of Apple products are now.

I snubbed the iPhone 7 last year as on an identical contract to mine it worked out £200 more. I asked why this was and the guy in the store told me it was because the pound is weaker because of Brexit. He said then Apple were the only ones really taking advantage so I ended up with a 6S. So many people I know have put off upgrading thus year due to their phones still being ‘pretty good’ and contracts being too expensive. It’s a growing trend at the moment apparently.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

I did had a quick look and you can get the iPhone X free but the monthly costs are extortionate.

This one here you’re paying £2736 over the course of the contract. You’re simply not getting a free phone, it’s just marketed like that to make you think you’re getting it cheaper than you actually are.

The true free ones are as you say, a few generations old.

And ahem, what were you saying earlier a little bit of humble pie wouldn’t go amiss. And nothing is truly free, never been and never will be.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

And ahem, what were you saying earlier a little bit of humble pie wouldn’t go amiss. And nothing is truly free, never been and never will be.

Why humble pie?

I’ve never suggested anything is free hence why I tackled the person that said iPhones were??

 

[Shanghaichica]

I snubbed the iPhone 7 last year as on an identical contract to mine it worked out £200 more. I asked why this was and the guy in the store told me it was because the pound is weaker because of Brexit. He said then Apple were the only ones really taking advantage so I ended up with a 6S. So many people I know have put off upgrading thus year due to their phones still being ‘pretty good’ and contracts being too expensive. It’s a growing trend at the moment apparently.

It’s the truth whether some want to admit it or not.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

Why humble pie?

I’ve never suggested anything is free hence why I tackled the person that said iPhones were??

No you did not. You very clearly stated they were not subsidised anywhere in the world. Which was blatantly not true and now you seem to go in some sort of denial and that you meant something else.

 

[MH01]

In my office i have lots of iOS devs, of the 10, 1 has the x

About 5 people out of 50 have the X, general consensus is the price is not worth it, it’s just a phone.

Seems the pricing has hit that barrier where people say nah.

Apple may have to decide if they want to go back to being premium devices that deliver value, or keep heading down the premium fashion path, there will always be people that want the best device for bling purposes, though just had a look and you are looking at around £80 per month on contract...... with the SE £15 and iPhone 7 £35.......

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

No you did not. You very clearly stated they were not subsidised anywhere in the world. Which was blatantly not true and now you seem to go in some sort of denial and that you meant something else.

No I didn’t. The discussion stems way back to when the claim was made carriers give away free iPhones. I said we’ve never had subsidised iPhones like that in Europe. I’m not denying what I’ve said and stand by it.

 

[bushman4]

until another company comes out with a superior cell phone. Apple has it made

Eventually it will happen But for now Apple puts out a quality product with state of the art technology and many
( not all) like their products

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

In my office i have lots of iOS devs, of the 10, 1 has the x

About 5 people out of 50 have the X, general consensus is the price is not worth it, it’s just a phone.

Seems the pricing has hit that barrier where people say nah.

Apple may have to decide if they want to go back to being premium devices that deliver value, or keep heading down the premium fashion path, there will always be people that want the best device for bling purposes, though just had a look and you are looking at around £80 per month on contract...... with the SE £15 and iPhone 7 £35.......

That’s the consensus where I work too although we have around the same number in our offices but nobody owns an X. Might be different after Christmas when I go back though.

I think the iPhone has always been premium as it’s never been cheap compared to the competition. I just think the super premium flagship replacing the previous premium has created a divide where it’s changed peoples upgrade patterns. That might be difficult to reverse in the short term as many have jumped to cheaper devices or become content keeping older phones. It feels like it’s taken the buzz out of it for many.

 

[44267547]

until another company comes out with a superior cell phone. Apple has it made

Eventually it will happen But for now Apple puts out a quality product with state of the art technology and many
( not all) like their products

Whole heartedly agree. I know others have their differing opinions on Apple and/or their hardware standards.

However in terms of the iPhone, quality of materials and craftsmanship, it's very difficult to beat it. And in terms of what makes the iPhone so unique is not just the hardware, it's the simplicity and intuitiveness of iOS coupled with the security. I always see hardware as superficial and eventually fades, it comes down to the user experience with iOS. And yes I know iOS 11 has its pitfalls, but my experiences have been more than adequate.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Whole heartedly agree. I know others have their differing opinions on Apple and/or their hardware standards.

However in terms of the iPhone, quality of materials and craftsmanship, it's very difficult to beat it. And in terms of what makes the iPhone so unique is not just the hardware, it's the simplicity and intuitiveness of iOS coupled with the security. I always see hardware as superficial and eventually fades, it comes down to the user experience with iOS. And yes I know iOS 11 has its pitfalls, but my experiences have been more than adequate.

The hardware does make the package complete though. The iPhone 7 and 8 have identical iOS experiences to the X so a user is pretty much completing the same tasks regardless of hardware. The shiny hardware used to be the pull to upgrade and the reason this is changing is because it’s now more expensive than ever to own the latest iPhone.

We saw the smartphone market slowing slowing in late 2015 and I fully expected the manufacturers to go into a price battle with each other. The opposite has happened and I think Apple were gambling on the introduction of OLED and FaceID to rejuvenate their segment of the market and the expectation people will buy it regardless of price. The X has sold well but not as well as expected apparently. Apple may have briefly lost touch with the demographics that have made their products popular and it’ll be interesting to see what they do next year.

 

[44267547]

The hardware does make the package complete though.

Just referencing your first sentence, the hardware is a very important aspect initially based off what somebody wants because of what they see, which is short term. But the reality is, hardware will fade because it's something that somebody eventually conform to and it translates into the experience with iOS long term.

For example, when the Apple Watch launched in April 2015. It's probably the most exciting product that I had been looking forward to from Apple in a very long time. When I purchased it, I bought the stainless model, which was the most expensive at the time, and I really appreciated the weight and the feel of the stainless. But that ultimately faded away and my appreciation has grown lethargic, because it's about the watchOS experience for me in terms of what makes the experience unique in functionality.

 

[Radon87000]

I know the X Plus is going to be eye wateringly expensive. I paid over $1200 upfront for the X The X Plus will,probably start at $1200-1300 base.

 

[Shanghaichica]

Whole heartedly agree. I know others have their differing opinions on Apple and/or their hardware standards.

However in terms of the iPhone, quality of materials and craftsmanship, it's very difficult to beat it. And in terms of what makes the iPhone so unique is not just the hardware, it's the simplicity and intuitiveness of iOS coupled with the security. I always see hardware as superficial and eventually fades, it comes down to the user experience with iOS. And yes I know iOS 11 has its pitfalls, but my experiences have been more than adequate.

I’m happy with the iPhone and apple’s products in general. I do complain about the ever increasing prices give my reason as to why. However ultimately I’m still buying Apple’s products because they are the best on the market and suit my needs.

 

[44267547]

I’m happy with the iPhone and apple’s products in general. I do complain about the ever increasing prices give my reason as to why. However ultimately I’m still buying Apple’s products because they are the best on the market and suit my needs.

Apples prices for their hardware is not always very welcoming, which I agree with. And that's not just including iPhone, that's all of their products and accessories. I think the quality is there as we all know, it's just a matter of if we can justify the purchase.

 

[The Game 161]

I’m happy with the iPhone and apple’s products in general. I do complain about the ever increasing prices give my reason as to why. However ultimately I’m still buying Apple’s products because they are the best on the market and suit my needs.

things just work so much better than the comp in terms of more devices.

like when air power is out charging 3 of your devices at once is just ideal. I'm more excited for that than HomePod which I'm not sure I would bother getting but thats another thing that will work great with other apple devices.

 

[Michael Scrip]

I did had a quick look and you can get the iPhone X free but the monthly costs are extortionate.

This one here you’re paying £2736 over the course of the contract. You’re simply not getting a free phone, it’s just marketed like that to make you think you’re getting it cheaper than you actually are.

The true free ones are as you say, a few generations old.

Good catch. Yep... that iPhone X is definitely not "free"...

They just combined the cost of the phone and service and showed the monthly and 24-month total cost.

And here's something that hasn't been discussed much here... the service costs much more than phone itself.

The numbers above... £114/mo or £2736 for 2 years... is for phone and service.

If we subtract the £999 for the iPhone X... we're left with £1737 over 2 years for just the service.

So monthly... the above deal would be £72/mo for service and £42/mo for the iPhone X

You could choose a cheaper phone than the iPhone X... but the £72/mo for service will be constant. You absolutely need service in order to have any smartphone.

So it's £72/mo for service... and here are the monthly prices for various iPhone models:

£42 - iPhone X
£33 - iPhone 8 Plus
£29 - iPhone 8
£28 - iPhone 7 Plus
£23 - iPhone 7

If you're already paying £72/mo for service... there's not that much difference between £23 and £42 for the phone.

The extra £19/mo means you can get this year's premium iPhone X instead of last year's iPhone 7. I don't think that's unreasonable.

But if you're the type of person who wants to pay for the phone up-front... now you're looking at £549 vs £999

That's when people freak out.

And that's why carriers offer the monthly plans for phones. You don't have to pay for the phone all at once. Most carriers offer 0.0% financing... so they're basically taking the retail price of the phone and dividing it by 24

I don't see anything wrong with that.

If I already have to pay £72/mo for service anyway... I'd rather pay £72/mo + £42/mo instead of £72/mo + £999 up-front.

But that's just me.

Note: everything in this comment was based off that one example in the quoted picture above. I realize there are a million different carriers with a million different phones and plans. I was just showing how carriers advertise their deals and how much you have to pay monthly or over 24 months.

We spend most of our time talking about the price of the phone.... but hardly any time talking about the price of the required service.

You're gonna have a monthly phone bill for the rest of your life anyway... so why not add a little extra to spread the cost of an "expensive" phone over 24 months?