iPhone X Apple is losing its mainstream, non-fan core with the X

[Shanghaichica]

As we learn that people outside of the USA have never had subsidized phones we also learn that it would make the financial transition to the 8 or X easier for them, not harder.

So not quite sure why they are complaining more than Americans are.

We are complaining about the currency conversion that Apple use. They apply a £1 to $1 conversion rate. So prices across the board have sky rocketed. Yes brexit is partially to blame but Apple have really taken advantage more so than other tech companies.

 

[boltjames]

We are complaining about the currency conversion that Apple use. They apply a £1 to $1 conversion rate. So prices across the board have sky rocketed. Yes brexit is partially to blame but Apple have really taken advantage more so than other tech companies.

That’s quite fair. Apologies.

 

[danny842003]

If we are using anecdotal evidence I was in Dubai recently and every other person seemed to have an X.
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We are complaining about the currency conversion that Apple use. They apply a £1 to $1 conversion rate. So prices across the board have sky rocketed. Yes brexit is partially to blame but Apple have really taken advantage more so than other tech companies.

It’s not $1 to £1 though is it?
£999 buys you an X, $999 does not.

 

[Shanghaichica]

If we are using anecdotal evidence I was in Dubai recently and every other person seemed to have an X.
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It’s not $1 to £1 though is it?
£999 buys you an X, $999 does not.

On most products such as the Apple Watch, iPads Apple TV it is.

 

[danny842003]

On most products such as the Apple Watch, iPads Apple TV it is.

A quick search shows that not to the be the case. You know US prices don’t include tax whereas UK prices do right?

 

[Shanghaichica]

A quick search shows that not to the be the case. You know US prices don’t include tax whereas UK prices do right?

Ok well I don’t know much about tax but isn’t it misleading when apple give a price at their keynote if it doesn’t include tax?

Here the price is the price. Is it a standard rate of tax like VAT?

 

[macher]

Ok well I don’t know much about tax but isn’t it misleading when apple give a price at their keynote if it doesn’t include tax?

Here the price is the price. Is it a standard rate of tax like VAT?

It’s not misleading we in the USA know it doesn’t include tax.

 

[boltjames]

It’s not $1 to £1 though is it?
£999 buys you an X, $999 does not.

Let’s make sure we are taking about the same thing.

A 256GB iPhone X is $1250.00. Tax (varies by state) is 8.25% bringing the total for my iPhone in the US to $1353.00 USD.

What does that same iPhone X cost in the UK all-in with all taxes/VAT?

 

[Shanghaichica]

Let’s make sure we are taking about the same thing.

A 256GB iPhone X is $1250.00. Tax (varies by state) is 8.25% bringing the total for my iPhone in the US to $1353.00 USD.

What does that same iPhone X cost in the UK all-in with all taxes/VAT?

£1,149. So it seems that our price including VAT is not equivalent in dollars. I did not know about tax because over here VAT is always added into the advertised price.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

£1,149. So it seems that our price including VAT is not equivalent in dollars. I did not know about tax because over here VAT is always added into the advertised price.

On that example we still pay $200 more per device and in some states the tax is even less. You’re not wrong in your comparison.

 

[danny842003]

On that example we still pay $200 more per device and in some states the tax is even less. You’re not wrong in your comparison.

Well he was wrong as he said 1 for 1. Products cost more all over the world that’s just a fact of buisness.
I’m a pom living in Sydney and things are way more expensive here but my wages are about double what I was earning in the UK if you just go on exchange rates. Yet not even close to twice as rich in real terms though. Comparing prices by exchange rates is very flawed.

 

[boltjames]

On that example we still pay $200 more per device and in some states the tax is even less. You’re not wrong in your comparison.

$200 for a product that will last 3 years is $5.50 a month.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Well he was wrong as he said 1 for 1. Products cost more all over the world that’s just a fact of buisness.
I’m a pom living in Sydney and things are way more expensive here but my wages are about double what I was earning in the UK if you just go on exchange rates. Yet not even close to twice as rich in real terms though. Comparing prices by exchange rates is very flawed.

It must be significant enough that people are buying iPhones in the States and bringing them in, obviously avoiding customs.

Love the word Pom. Reminds me of the time I had to explain to an Aussie that Brits aren’t actually offended by the nickname despite the common misconception in the culture down under.

That he is a she btw. The clue is in the name.

 

[Shanghaichica]

Well he was wrong as he said 1 for 1. Products cost more all over the world that’s just a fact of buisness.
I’m a pom living in Sydney and things are way more expensive here but my wages are about double what I was earning in the UK if you just go on exchange rates. Yet not even close to twice as rich in real terms though. Comparing prices by exchange rates is very flawed.

*She

 

[danny842003]

*She

Sorry I assumed your gender I will go neck myself immediately.
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It must be significant enough that people are buying iPhones in the States and bringing them in, obviously avoiding customs.

Love the word Pom. Reminds me of the time I had to explain to an Aussie that Brits aren’t actually offended by the nickname despite the common misconception in the culture down under.

That he is a she btw. The clue is in the name.

Of course it is significant enough for people to try saving a few quid. I’ve just been back to the Uk and I certainly took advantage of cheaper prices, but it doesn’t impact the price Apple are selling for they can’t avoid duties, higher overheads etc.
I would say an iPhone is reliativley the same price here and the UK even if the monetary cost isn’t the same.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Sorry I assumed your gender I will go neck myself immediately.
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Of course it is significant enough for people to try saving a few quid. I’ve just been back to the Uk and I certainly took advantage of cheaper prices, but it doesn’t impact the price Apple are selling for they can’t avoid duties, higher overheads etc.
I would say an iPhone is reliativley the same price here and the UK even if the monetary cost isn’t the same.

I think it’s dodgy ground suggesting Apple can’t avoid duties and higher overheads. They were recently caught using tax loopholes to avoid paying two thirds of the corporation tax they owe every year in the UK. It’s an ongoing case and they face paying back billions of pounds.

They’ve also been doing it in other European countries. The paradise papers that were leaked last month showed Apple have only been paying tax on 5% of their profits outside of the United States and sometimes as little as 2% funnelling most of their revenue through subsidies based in Ireland. Apple has amassed an offshore fortune of $252bn which is more than both the British and American governments have in reserve. They are a trillion dollar company because of their clever accounting and could yet be forced to pay back hundreds of millions of pounds.

I think they could afford to offer the iPhone X at the same price globally if they were not so greedy. I also think the X is hideously overpriced to begin with especially when their closest competition are producing similar quality devices with a wider range of features and able to offer them to consumers at nearly £400 less. As iPhone users we love iOS, but many are starting to question why prices are skyrocketing so much when technology leaders in Asia are doing it so much cheaper? I suppose Samsung are squeezing Apple on component costs and the ripple effect of this now is a divided user base in the iPhone community.

 

[danny842003]

I think it’s dodgy ground suggesting Apple can’t avoid duties and higher overheads. They were recently caught using tax loopholes to avoid paying two thirds of the corporation tax they owe every year in the UK. It’s an ongoing case and they face paying back billions of pounds.

They’ve also been doing it in other European countries. The paradise papers that were leaked last month showed Apple have only been paying tax on 5% of their profits outside of the United States and sometimes as little as 2% funnelling most of their revenue through subsidies based in Ireland. Apple has amassed an offshore fortune of $252bn which is more than both the British and American governments have in reserve. They are a trillion dollar company because of their clever accounting and could yet be forced to pay back hundreds of millions of pounds.

I think they could afford to offer the iPhone X at the same price globally if they were not so greedy. I also think the X is hideously overpriced to begin with especially when their closest competition are producing similar quality devices with a wider range of features and able to offer them to consumers at nearly £400 less. As iPhone users we love iOS, but many are starting to question why prices are skyrocketing so much when technology leaders in Asia are doing it so much cheaper? I suppose Samsung are squeezing Apple on component costs and the ripple effect of this now is a divided user base in the iPhone community.

If they weren’t so greedy? It’s a for profit business.
I’m not saying I wouldn’t like a cheaper iPhone but they have shareholders and while people are buying their phones why would they sell them at the same cost worldwide? As I said I think they are at a relative price worldwide already. Do you know how crappy a lot of wages are in the US for instance?
As for the tx loopholes they may be doing the same in the US so without knowing their accounts we can’t be sure that it’s not more expensive.
It’s pretty simple if you want an iPhone buy one if you decide it’s not for you buy a competitors instead.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

If they weren’t so greedy? It’s a for profit business.
I’m not saying I wouldn’t like a cheaper iPhone but they have shareholders and while people are buying their phones why would they sell them at the same cost worldwide? As I said I think they are at a relative price worldwide already. Do you know how crappy a lot of wages are in the US for instance?
As for the tx loopholes they may be doing the same in the US so without knowing their accounts we can’t be sure that it’s not more expensive.
It’s pretty simple if you want an iPhone buy one if you decide it’s not for you buy a competitors instead.

I have decided the iPhone is for me and now own my fourth, that’s the point. If prices go up and £1k becomes the standard, then I and a lot of others will be checking out the competitor. There’s only one loser in that situation and it’s not me.

 

[boltjames]

I have decided the iPhone is for me and now own my fourth, that’s the point. If prices go up and £1k becomes the standard, then I and a lot of others will be checking out the competitor. There’s only one loser in that situation and it’s not me.

Sure it is.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Sure it is.

I’m not like you though as image and flashing wealth is not my style. I’m modest, have a modest income and don’t feel I need to fit in with wealthy people who judge me on what car I drive and what phone is in my pocket. We are very different in that respect.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

*removed response to now deleted post.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

iPhones have never been offered free on subsidies outside of the United States. We’ve always paid in full for iPhones on contract in Europe. They may have offered subsidies in parts of Asia too. As this is an international forum it’s different depending on the country/continent.

Subsidies have never been offered in Europe and Scandinavia.

Yes they have - I've had free iPhones and iPads in the UK...And I've also had subsidised Nokia's in the Netherlands, Belgium, Portugal and Denmark.

Because you guys only pay £747 for an iPhone X whereas we pay £1000. The jump on the 8 over previous iterations is over £200. The whole range has rapidly shot up and monthly tariffs tend not up let you pay more for the device to bring the monthly costs down.

Your status symbol is actually quite cheap by our standards and if we had the same pricing, the poor scumbags you like to mock here would have no problem getting a X.

No, we don't, you are including tax. If you include the exchange rate, then you also should remove the tax to make it comparable. So a £999 iPhone is £832.50 without VAT. Currency exchange has a cost, as does managing fluctuations. Many international organisations will use their own internal conversion rate, but let's use a standard interbank rate plus 0.1% as I'm sure Apple will get great deals, or as per your next comment keep it abroad anyway. So it's only $112.91 difference, aka a mere £84.54.

I think it’s dodgy ground suggesting Apple can’t avoid duties and higher overheads. They were recently caught using tax loopholes to avoid paying two thirds of the corporation tax they owe every year in the UK. It’s an ongoing case and they face paying back billions of pounds.

They’ve also been doing it in other European countries. The paradise papers that were leaked last month showed Apple have only been paying tax on 5% of their profits outside of the United States and sometimes as little as 2% funnelling most of their revenue through subsidies based in Ireland. Apple has amassed an offshore fortune of $252bn which is more than both the British and American governments have in reserve. They are a trillion dollar company because of their clever accounting and could yet be forced to pay back hundreds of millions of pounds.

I think they could afford to offer the iPhone X at the same price globally if they were not so greedy. I also think the X is hideously overpriced to begin with especially when their closest competition are producing similar quality devices with a wider range of features and able to offer them to consumers at nearly £400 less. As iPhone users we love iOS, but many are starting to question why prices are skyrocketing so much when technology leaders in Asia are doing it so much cheaper? I suppose Samsung are squeezing Apple on component costs and the ripple effect of this now is a divided user base in the iPhone community.

What loophole was that then? Are they domiciled for tax reasons in the UK?

I guess you are referring to this article https://www.theguardian.com/news/20...-moved-jersey-ireland-tax-row-paradise-papers for your sources.

They are doing what any sensible organisation should. Heck I'm quite confident you are employing tax avoidance strategies yourself as well - wouldn't be very smart if you didn't. To help you, let me name two that are really good in the UK; savings ISA and pension contributions.

Tax Avoidance = legal
Tax Evasion = illegal

Nothing wrong with avoidance.

 

[danny842003]

I have decided the iPhone is for me and now own my fourth, that’s the point. If prices go up and £1k becomes the standard, then I and a lot of others will be checking out the competitor. There’s only one loser in that situation and it’s not me.

So who is the loser? Because apple are making money hand over fist and they don't care if you personally buy one or not.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Yes they have - I've had free iPhones and iPads in the UK...And I've also had subsidised Nokia's in the Netherlands, Belgium, Portugal and Denmark.


No, we don't, you are including tax. If you include the exchange rate, then you also should remove the tax to make it comparable. So a £999 iPhone is £832.50 without VAT. Currency exchange has a cost, as does managing fluctuations. Many international organisations will use their own internal conversion rate, but let's use a standard interbank rate plus 0.1% as I'm sure Apple will get great deals, or as per your next comment keep it abroad anyway. So it's only $112.91 difference, aka a mere £84.54.


What loophole was that then? Are they domiciled for tax reasons in the UK?

I guess you are referring to this article https://www.theguardian.com/news/20...-moved-jersey-ireland-tax-row-paradise-papers for your sources.

They are doing what any sensible organisation should. Heck I'm quite confident you are employing tax avoidance strategies yourself as well - wouldn't be very smart if you didn't. To help you, let me name two that are really good in the UK; savings ISA and pension contributions.

Tax Avoidance = legal
Tax Evasion = illegal

Nothing wrong with avoidance.

Far too much to go through here. I included the VAT price because that is what we pay, there is no avoiding it and all recommended retail prices include VAT. Whether it is 800 odd quid without VAT is irrelevant.

You can get free iPhones now if you have a £125 per month tariff which covers the cost of the handset with the tariff. How much was your tariff when you were getting a free iPhone? I’ve never found a free iPhone on a £25 per month deal because no carrier gives away a free iPhone and never has, they’ve always absorbed the cost. You either pay a fee upfront as most do or you raise the monthly tariff, you’re paying the same amount either way.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

So who is the loser? Because apple are making money hand over fist and they don't care if you personally buy one or not.

I’ve never known a brand that attracts so much fierce defence. It’s almost like a religion on here where people who like me buy iPhones and other Apple products but get an immense pleasure knowing Apple are making billions. If supermarkets put prices up consumers get annoyed and shop elsewhere for deals, but I never hear people taking delight in paying more and defending them as multi billion pound businesses.

Ikea are currently being investigated for tax avoidance, totally legal as I’ve said here many times despite this being explained to me above. However when certain companies do it there is uproar. When Amazon and Starbucks did it they got a hard time. When companies took out insurance policies on employees and profited from their deaths, they got a hard time over it. I really haven’t got to understand why a company who makes pretty damn good products gets a free pass however. Unless you are a major shareholder I don’t see why it’s of any interest to take delight in shady legal methods and their profits.

The loser is the party that feels the effect of a segment being turned off their goods.