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things just work so much better than the comp in terms of more devices.

like when air power is out charging 3 of your devices at once is just ideal. I'm more excited for that than HomePod which I'm not sure I would bother getting but thats another thing that will work great with other apple devices.
If the HomePod works with other devices, and can be used to control the Apple TV then I’ll probalt get one.


I’m sure the AirPower will be at least £100 but I’ll get one. I already have the Apple Watch series 3 and iPhone X and will most list get the new airpod charging case.
 
If the HomePod works with other devices, and can be used to control the Apple TV then I’ll probalt get one.


I’m sure the AirPower will be at least £100 but I’ll get one. I already have the Apple Watch series 3 and iPhone X and will most list get the new airpod charging case.
yeah guessing the charging case will be out when air power is I imagine.
 
No I didn’t. The discussion stems way back to when the claim was made carriers give away free iPhones. I said we’ve never had subsidised iPhones like that in Europe. I’m not denying what I’ve said and stand by it.

LOL Slight alteration yet again, very consistent.

The hardware does make the package complete though. The iPhone 7 and 8 have identical iOS experiences to the X so a user is pretty much completing the same tasks regardless of hardware. The shiny hardware used to be the pull to upgrade and the reason this is changing is because it’s now more expensive than ever to own the latest iPhone.
Ahem there is a definitely a trend going on here; so the iPhone 7 and 8 have IDENTICAL iOS experience to the X...Funny that I came from a 7 Plus and can definitely note a rather different iOS experience...For some it may be better, for some it may not be. But definitely different. How you can state with a straight face that it is identical is beyond me to be honest.

Remind me, which phone do you have? You may have missed that bit of experience in your signature...
 
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LOL Slight alteration yet again, very consistent.


Ahem there is a definitely a trend going on here; so the iPhone 7 and 8 have IDENTICAL iOS experience to the X...Funny that I came from a 7 Plus and can definitely note a rather different iOS experience...For some it may be better, for some it may not be. But definitely different. How you can state with a straight face that it is identical is beyond me to be honest.

Remind me, which phone do you have? You may have missed that bit of experience in your signature...
I’m not altering anything here and my opinion remains unchanged. I’ve repeatedly said we’ve always had to pay for iPhones outside of the USA. Those posts are all still in my post history.

The iOS experience is pretty identical besides gestures and the unlocking method. Navigating around the same iOS screens and features is similar.

Signature? I haven’t logged into this site on anything other than the Tapatalk app since about 2013 or maybe 2014. I have no idea what my signature is but now I’m intrigued to have a look. Signatures don’t show on Tapatalk.

You appear to be losing your cool here and it’s becoming less respectful, not just with me either. I’ll cut it dead if you can’t be reasonable. :)
 
I’m not altering anything here and my opinion remains unchanged. I’ve repeatedly said we’ve always had to pay for iPhones outside of the USA. Those posts are all still in my post history.

The iOS experience is pretty identical besides gestures and the unlocking method. Navigating around the same iOS screens and features is similar.

Signature? I haven’t logged into this site on anything other than the Tapatalk app since about 2013 or maybe 2014. I have no idea what my signature is but now I’m intrigued to have a look. Signatures don’t show on Tapatalk.

You appear to be losing your cool here and it’s becoming less respectful, not just with me either. I’ll cut it dead if you can’t be reasonable. :)
??? You are changing your story repeatedly and are now suggesting I’m loosing my cool when I highlight that. That is just peculiar. A great example of how you do that is above, first it was identical and now it is “pretty identical besides ...”

It is those little shifts that make discussions very difficult if you can’t acknowledge that you are changing your story...
 
Every person I know that has an X says it’s terrible.

I did that too. When my doorman asked me if the rumor he heard was true and that I really spent $7,000 to get my wife and kids and I iPhone X’s for Christmas I said “oh, they’re terrible”.
 
??? You are changing your story repeatedly and are now suggesting I’m loosing my cool when I highlight that. That is just peculiar. A great example of how you do that is above, first it was identical and now it is “pretty identical besides ...”

It is those little shifts that make discussions very difficult if you can’t acknowledge that you are changing your story...

I may have used the word subsidy instead of making it clear I meant ‘free’ within that statement in that post you quoted originally. I’ve stated my point at least a dozen times in the past week and viewing my post history it’s clear I was correct most of the times I said it. I apologise if I wasn’t clear, but I wasn’t trying to change my point of view. I stand by my opinion iPhones have never been subsidised to the point they are free here. Carriers have offered reductions on the contract price but we’ve always had to pay in full for the handset. I’m repeating that for the umpteenth time do hopefully it’s now clear. I’m not intending to change my story and you’ve joined the flow of conversation rather late.

I don’t want to argue the complete semantics of what seems something to be identical. A change of wallpaper can make a difference but my point was using iOS as a whole. I can’t explain either point any clearer.
 
LOL Slight alteration yet again, very consistent.


Ahem there is a definitely a trend going on here; so the iPhone 7 and 8 have IDENTICAL iOS experience to the X...Funny that I came from a 7 Plus and can definitely note a rather different iOS experience...For some it may be better, for some it may not be. But definitely different. How you can state with a straight face that it is identical is beyond me to be honest.

Remind me, which phone do you have? You may have missed that bit of experience in your signature...

The way you navigate the phone is different but the overall experience is the same. Which is not a bad thing. I also came form a 7 plus to the X
 
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I’m not altering anything here and my opinion remains unchanged. I’ve repeatedly said we’ve always had to pay for iPhones outside of the USA. Those posts are all still in my post history.

The iOS experience is pretty identical besides gestures and the unlocking method. Navigating around the same iOS screens and features is similar.

Signature? I haven’t logged into this site on anything other than the Tapatalk app since about 2013 or maybe 2014. I have no idea what my signature is but now I’m intrigued to have a look. Signatures don’t show on Tapatalk.

You appear to be losing your cool here and it’s becoming less respectful, not just with me either. I’ll cut it dead if you can’t be reasonable. :)
iPhones aren't free in the US, either.

On the old plans with 2-year contracts:

My monthly bill for 4 lines all with flip phones: $90

My monthly bill for 4 lines all with iPhones: $240

That's a difference of $3600 every two years.

Honestly, one of the reasons I opted for iPhones is because the monthly bill (with built-in subsidies) remains the same regardless if one gets a cheap Android or top of the line iPhone. Those who get the "free" Android phones with 2-year contract were effectively subsidizing people who get more expensive phones.
 
iPhones aren't free in the US, either.

On the old plans with 2-year contracts:

My monthly bill for 4 lines all with flip phones: $90

My monthly bill for 4 lines all with iPhones: $240

That's a difference of $3600 every two years.

Honestly, one of the reasons I opted for iPhones is because the monthly bill (with built-in subsidies) remains the same regardless if one gets a cheap Android or top of the line iPhone. Those who get the "free" Android phones with 2-year contract were effectively subsidizing people who get more expensive phones.

Thank you so much for posting that :).
So basically one poster claimed false information and we’ve been arguing this for the last week.

So for the record, Americans have also not had completely free iPhones offered by carriers to get their custom. I did think it would be massively generous considering the price of an iPhone.

Once again, cheers
 
The way you navigate the phone is different but the overall experience is the same. Which is not a bad thing. I also came form a 7 plus to the X
The word that was used was 'identical' - we must have very different interpretations of what that word means...
 
Thank you so much for posting that :).
So basically one poster claimed false information and we’ve been arguing this for the last week.

So for the record, Americans have also not had completely free iPhones offered by carriers to get their custom. I did think it would be massively generous considering the price of an iPhone.

Once again, cheers
Sorry I ignored this debate when it got testy. Trust me when I say I am a cheap son of a gun and if ANY iPhone was offered for free, I would have been all over that like stink on you know what. None have ever been offered that I am aware of.
 
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The word that was used was 'identical' - we must have very different interpretations of what that word means...

How about if I say ‘you’ve won’?

The semantics regarding the use of my statements ‘identical’ and ‘pretty identical’ were flawed because what I really meant was the user experience is similar beyond unlocking the phone and using gestures.

You can punch the air, kick back with a beer and be safe in the knowledge you are champion of the Internet. Someone conceding on an Internet forum due to patience being exhausted? You don’t see that very often. Enjoy, you’ve earned it.
 
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iPhones aren't free in the US, either.

On the old plans with 2-year contracts:

My monthly bill for 4 lines all with flip phones: $90

My monthly bill for 4 lines all with iPhones: $240

That's a difference of $3600 every two years.

Honestly, one of the reasons I opted for iPhones is because the monthly bill (with built-in subsidies) remains the same regardless if one gets a cheap Android or top of the line iPhone. Those who get the "free" Android phones with 2-year contract were effectively subsidizing people who get more expensive phones.

Flip phones? They used no data.

Good lord, enough already. Here is what has gone on in the US in the past 10 years:

Free iPhone - costs $0. No increase in monthly service/equipment fee paid to the carrier. The carrier gives a subsidy and gives the iPhone away to gain subscribers. Was very popular during the high growth period 2009-2014. My young son's and daughter's iPhone 4 and 5C were handed to me for nothing, just a plastic bag and a 'thank you'.

Upgraded iPhone - costs $99. No increase in monthly service/equipment fee paid to the carrier. The carrier subsidizes a large discount on the larger capacity iPhone away to gain subscribers. Was very popular during the high growth period 2009-2014. My wife and I got 3 or 4 of these as we needed the space whereas our kids didn't.

Today's iPhone (paid) - costs full price, $349 to $1250. Put the full price on a credit card, the phone is yours, no impact to monthly bill. Major change to the finances, no more subsidies, customers take the hit, started in 2016 and now the industry standard.

Today's iPhone (leased) - costs full price, $349 to $1250. Instead of paying in full, agree to a monthly installment program where the full price is divided by the length of the agreement (usually 24 or 30 months). Major change to the finances, no more subsidies, customers take the hit, started in 2016 and now the industry standard.

That's what's been going on in the US.

So when someone says that the carriers used to subsidize the purchase price of the iPhone, they mean it. That hardware was free. Those carriers in those early years wanted our business. And when someone says "yeah, but you were you were always paying for it" they are either too young to remember it or lousy negotiators.

And what's going on today with leasing is confusing people as well. Of course they are "paying for it in their monthly bill" because they didn't buy it outright at the time of purchase. That ad posted earlier in the day, they claim it's a free iPhone but it isn't. Years ago, it actually was.
 
Sorry I ignored this debate when it got testy. Trust me when I say I am a cheap son of a gun and if ANY iPhone was offered for free, I would have been all over that like stink on you know what. None have ever been offered that I am aware of.

In 2013 I got my daughter her first iPhone, a 5C, added to our AT&T plan. It cost $0. Not even an activation fee. Walked into an AT&T store, added her to our plan, paid $15 a month for her voice/text, paid $20 a month for 2GB of data, $35 a month, not a penny more.

Just two weeks ago, I bought my 2 sons 256GB Space Grey iPhone X's. Through the AT&T loyalty division, they offered them to me for $699 each, a subsidized savings over the $1,250 list price. They also waived the activation fee ($45) and gave me a free pair of headphones ($199). My Unlimited Plus plan did not go up a penny. The $1,391 I saved in hardware costs, activation fees, and headphones was just a discount, was absorbed by AT&T to retain my business. It was not divided up and hidden in my bill.

And at that time just two weeks ago I was offered 2 iPhone 8's for $0. For free. Turns out that with every purchase of an iPhone X you can get a new iPhone 8 for free if you add another line to your account. I could not take advantage of this because my youngest is only 4 years old and it's not time for him to get a phone yet. But if he were a few years older, I'd have gotten $2,135 worth of savings on hardware costs, activation fees, and headphones.

That's real. That's not "being played" by AT&T. That's a carrier at Christmas trying to hit its financial plan and deeply discounting Apple products to make it happen.
 
Flip phones? They used no data.

Good lord, enough already. Here is what has gone on in the US in the past 10 years:

Free iPhone - costs $0. No increase in monthly service/equipment fee paid to the carrier. The carrier gives a subsidy and gives the iPhone away to gain subscribers. Was very popular during the high growth period 2009-2014. My young son's and daughter's iPhone 4 and 5C were handed to me for nothing, just a plastic bag and a 'thank you'.

Upgraded iPhone - costs $99. No increase in monthly service/equipment fee paid to the carrier. The carrier subsidizes a large discount on the larger capacity iPhone away to gain subscribers. Was very popular during the high growth period 2009-2014. My wife and I got 3 or 4 of these as we needed the space whereas our kids didn't.

Today's iPhone (paid) - costs full price, $349 to $1250. Put the full price on a credit card, the phone is yours, no impact to monthly bill. Major change to the finances, no more subsidies, customers take the hit, started in 2016 and now the industry standard.

Today's iPhone (leased) - costs full price, $349 to $1250. Instead of paying in full, agree to a monthly installment program where the full price is divided by the length of the agreement (usually 24 or 30 months). Major change to the finances, no more subsidies, customers take the hit, started in 2016 and now the industry standard.

That's what's been going on in the US.

So when someone says that the carriers used to subsidize the purchase price of the iPhone, they mean it. That hardware was free. Those carriers in those early years wanted our business. And when someone says "yeah, but you were you were always paying for it" they are either too young to remember it or lousy negotiators.

And what's going on today with leasing is confusing people as well. Of course they are "paying for it in their monthly bill" because they didn't buy it outright at the time of purchase. That ad posted earlier in the day, they claim it's a free iPhone but it isn't. Years ago, it actually was.
We didn't really get free (well, $0.99) iPhones until 2011.

The line up was:

2010
iPhone 4 $199
iPhone 3GS $99

2011
iPhone 4S $199
iPhone 4 $99
iPhone 3GS $0.99

Yes, data plans weren't required for flip phones (albeit most supported basic WAP by then). However, you can be sure carriers expected that $15-50 mandatory data plan for iPhones to be mostly gravy. They were caught pretty unawares by the heavy network load from smartphone users. At one point, the lowest data plan offered was 200MB data for $15/mo. I expect that's pretty negligible load on the network so that gives us an idea of how much the subsidy is back then (~$15 x 24 = $360).

It wasn't until after the failed AT&T/T-Mobile merger where AT&T gave T-Mobile $4 billion in cash and wireless spectrum that we started seeing active competition among the Big 4.
 
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In 2013 I got my daughter her first iPhone, a 5C, added to our AT&T plan. It cost $0. Not even an activation fee. Walked into an AT&T store, added her to our plan, paid $15 a month for her voice/text, paid $20 a month for 2GB of data, $35 a month, not a penny more.

Just two weeks ago, I bought my 2 sons 256GB Space Grey iPhone X's. Through the AT&T loyalty division, they offered them to me for $699 each, a subsidized savings over the $1,250 list price. They also waived the activation fee ($45) and gave me a free pair of headphones ($199). My Unlimited Plus plan did not go up a penny. The $1,391 I saved in hardware costs, activation fees, and headphones was just a discount, was absorbed by AT&T to retain my business. It was not divided up and hidden in my bill.

And at that time just two weeks ago I was offered 2 iPhone 8's for $0. For free. Turns out that with every purchase of an iPhone X you can get a new iPhone 8 for free if you add another line to your account. I could not take advantage of this because my youngest is only 4 years old and it's not time for him to get a phone yet. But if he were a few years older, I'd have gotten $2,135 worth of savings on hardware costs, activation fees, and headphones.

That's real. That's not "being played" by AT&T. That's a carrier at Christmas trying to hit its financial plan and deeply discounting Apple products to make it happen.
Essentially you just said only the 5C was free, just to clarify. I never did hear about that but not surprising since AT&T usually hasn't been good in areas where I lived so never paid attention to their offers.

The paragraph talking about the free 8's IF you bought an X AND added an account doesn't qualify for free in my mind. You paid for the 8's if you had to give somebody money for something to get them. It's like BOGO in my mind. Folks right here on MR have argued that since they got the second one "FREE" it must be true. But try and get that free item without paying for the first one, ain't going to happen. All you really did is get them at a huge discount. But they weren't "free".
But congrats to you on being a wise consumer and saving money where you could.
 
Essentially you just said only the 5C was free, just to clarify. I never did hear about that but not surprising since AT&T usually hasn't been good in areas where I lived so never paid attention to their offers.

The 5C was just one example. From 2010 to 2015 or so you could get whatever the entry-level iPhone was at the time (3GS, 4, 5, 5C, etc.) for $0 either to retain you as a customer (they were petrified of people leaving ATT for Verizon) or to entice you to add a line (for your children mostly, it was no cost iPhone's that started this whole situation of having 10 year olds with smartphones)

The paragraph talking about the free 8's IF you bought an X AND added an account doesn't qualify for free in my mind. You paid for the 8's if you had to give somebody money for something to get them.

Well, I had a 12 year old son and he wanted an iPhone for Christmas and I was going to spend $349 for the entry-level iPhone and add him to my plan at $35 no matter what, there was no way around that. So AT&T giving me that phone for free to entice me to add him to my plan was free money. A dumb decision on their part but I guess they had their reasons. You have to remember, when your kids turn 11 they start badgering you for an iPhone and it doesn't stop until you get them one. I was going to spend $349 and thanks to ATT giving them away that Christmas of 2011 or whatever it was I didn't have to. That's not bogus. That's free money.

It's like BOGO in my mind. Folks right here on MR have argued that since they got the second one "FREE" it must be true. But try and get that free item without paying for the first one, ain't going to happen. All you really did is get them at a huge discount. But they weren't "free".
But congrats to you on being a wise consumer and saving money where you could.

So in the past 7 weeks I have purchased 4 iPhone X's 256GB Space Grey:

Mine: $1450 via Craigslist to avoid the one month wait at launch.
Wife: $1250 when the AT&T version I preordered on launch night finally arrived.
Son: $699 by calling AT&T loyalty department.
Son: $699 by calling AT&T loyalty department.

Wife and I have been ATT customers since 1998, got our first iPhone's with the 3GS in 2009. The boys both got their first iPhones, 3GS', for $0 back in 2011 or so, only had to add them to the plan for $35 a month each. The 2 half priced iPhone X's didn't increase our plan rate or incur any fees whatsoever.

...and if I added my 4 year old (would never, but as an example) last week I would have gotten a $0 iPhone 8 simply for paying $35 a month like the rest of us. And, by the way, that's for unlimited talk/text and data plus tethering.

Free iPhone's years ago, half priced iPhone X's now. This is the way it was/is in America with AT&T, can't speak to other carriers.
[doublepost=1514657765][/doublepost]
We didn't really get free (well, $0.99) iPhones until 2011.

The line up was:

2010
iPhone 4 $199
iPhone 3GS $99

2011
iPhone 4S $199
iPhone 4 $99
iPhone 3GS $0.99

Yes, data plans weren't required for flip phones (albeit most supported basic WAP by then). However, you can be sure carriers expected that $15-50 mandatory data plan for iPhones to be mostly gravy. They were caught pretty unawares by the heavy network load from smartphone users. At one point, the lowest data plan offered was 200MB data for $15/mo. I expect that's pretty negligible load on the network so that gives us an idea of how much the subsidy is back then (~$15 x 24 = $360).

It wasn't until after the failed AT&T/T-Mobile merger where AT&T gave T-Mobile $4 billion in cash and wireless spectrum that we started seeing active competition among the Big 4.

Please read this article which explains, quite clearly, what a burden the subsidies were for the carriers:

https://betanews.com/2012/06/07/iphone-kills-carrier-profits/

"The primary reason for iPhone's dependence on carrier subsidies is that all models are high-priced, high-margin products for Apple. So even though a subscriber may get an iPhone 3GS for free or an iPhone 4 for $99 on a two year contract, carriers still have to pay Apple an average subsidy of roughly $400 - $450 per device. Meanwhile, Apple's competition is diversified across price points, receiving an average of $200-$300 in subsidies per device. On average, it is safe to assume that iPhone receives an incremental subsidy of $150 per device, when compared to the competition.

There are numerous estimates of the cost of acquiring a wireless subscriber. According to one estimate, the cost of acquiring a wireless subscriber ranges from $300 to $400. Another estimate measures this cost at $250 to $300 per customer. A research report from 1998 also estimates this cost as $400. Since estimates seem to be fluctuating even over such a long time frame, we can make a safe assumption of the cost of acquiring a customer as the high end of the ranges mentioned here, i.e. $400. Most reports also mention that acquiring a new customer costs five times as much as retaining a current customer, i.e. $80. So, the incremental cost to replace a subscriber would be the difference of these two, i.e. $320.

Costs savings due to reduced churn is only 27 percent of incremental subsidy cost for AT&T and 45 percent for Verizon. This means AT&T is actually losing a net figure of more than $2 billion, while Verizon is losing nearly $1 billion, due to high iPhone subsidies. Verizon's gap is lower because it sold fewer iPhones than AT&T."
 
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The 5C was just one example. From 2010 to 2015 or so you could get whatever the entry-level iPhone was at the time (3GS, 4, 5, 5C, etc.) for $0 either to retain you as a customer (they were petrified of people leaving ATT for Verizon) or to entice you to add a line (for your children mostly, it was no cost iPhone's that started this whole situation of having 10 year olds with smartphones)



Well, I had a 12 year old son and he wanted an iPhone for Christmas and I was going to spend $349 for the entry-level iPhone and add him to my plan at $35 no matter what, there was no way around that. So AT&T giving me that phone for free to entice me to add him to my plan was free money. A dumb decision on their part but I guess they had their reasons. You have to remember, when your kids turn 11 they start badgering you for an iPhone and it doesn't stop until you get them one. I was going to spend $349 and thanks to ATT giving them away that Christmas of 2011 or whatever it was I didn't have to. That's not bogus. That's free money.



So in the past 7 weeks I have purchased 4 iPhone X's 256GB Space Grey:

Mine: $1450 via Craigslist to avoid the one month wait at launch.
Wife: $1250 when the AT&T version I preordered on launch night finally arrived.
Son: $699 by calling AT&T loyalty department.
Son: $699 by calling AT&T loyalty department.

Wife and I have been ATT customers since 1998, got our first iPhone's with the 3GS in 2009. The boys both got their first iPhones, 3GS', for $0 back in 2011 or so, only had to add them to the plan for $35 a month each. The 2 half priced iPhone X's didn't increase our plan rate or incur any fees whatsoever.

...and if I added my 4 year old (would never, but as an example) last week I would have gotten a $0 iPhone 8 simply for paying $35 a month like the rest of us. And, by the way, that's for unlimited talk/text and data plus tethering.

Free iPhone's years ago, half priced iPhone X's now. This is the way it was/is in America with AT&T, can't speak to other carriers.
My statement still stands, you had to pay AT&T some money to get that phone. Period.
It's really semantics. They weren't free, you just saved $349. Now how much are your kids phone lines going to cost you over the length of your contract? Not. Free.
;)
 
My statement still stands, you had to pay AT&T some money to get that phone. Period.
It's really semantics. They weren't free, you just saved $349. Now how much are your kids phone lines going to cost you over the length of your contract? Not. Free.

I'm sorry, you thought I was saying that a homeless man could waltz into an Apple store and walk out with a free iPhone without a wireless contract?

If I showed up at AT&T's door with an iPhone bequeathed to me by my late uncle upon his untimely death that cost me $0, and wanted to add it to my plan for my 12 year old son, AT&T would charge me nothing and add him to my plan for $35 a month, the cost of the carrier's services.

The same exact thing happened multiple times except instead of showing up with some free iPhone from a dead relative, AT&T gave it to me for $0. The carrier services are the constant ($35), the cost of the hardware is the variable ($0 or $349).

Clear now?
 
I'm sorry, you thought I was saying that a homeless man could waltz into an Apple store and walk out with a free iPhone without a wireless contract?

If I showed up at AT&T's door with an iPhone bequeathed to me by my late uncle upon his untimely death that cost me $0, and wanted to add it to my plan for my 12 year old son, AT&T would charge me nothing and add him to my plan for $35 a month, the cost of the carrier's services.

The same exact thing happened multiple times except instead of showing up with some free iPhone from a dead relative, AT&T gave it to me for $0. The carrier services are the constant ($35), the cost of the hardware is the variable ($0 or $349).

Clear now?
As I said, it's semantics. You getting your Uncle's phone was free, it cost you NO money. But that phone will now be costing you $35 a month.
What I am saying is free is something that cost's me nothing out of pocket, ever! Once it cost's me something, even if it is indirectly, it is no longer free. A very fine distinction yes, but still valid.
Clear now?
 
As I said, it's semantics. You getting your Uncle's phone was free, it cost you NO money. But that phone will now be costing you $35 a month.
What I am saying is free is something that cost's me nothing out of pocket, ever! Once it cost's me something, even if it is indirectly, it is no longer free. A very fine distinction yes, but still valid.
Clear now?

It's not a fine distinction, it's just wrong. AT&T's profit margins aren't the issue. That's a different conversation. We are not talking about that. We are talking about the cost of hardware.

If you have a phone already, it's $35 a month for service. If you need a phone, it's $349 at a minimum whether paid immediately or spread out over 24 months plus the same $35 a month for service. If AT&T hands you a new phone and all you pay is $35 for service, the phone is free because you didn't spend $349.
 
Please read this article which explains, quite clearly, what a burden the subsidies were for the carriers:

https://betanews.com/2012/06/07/iphone-kills-carrier-profits/

"The primary reason for iPhone's dependence on carrier subsidies is that all models are high-priced, high-margin products for Apple. So even though a subscriber may get an iPhone 3GS for free or an iPhone 4 for $99 on a two year contract, carriers still have to pay Apple an average subsidy of roughly $400 - $450 per device. Meanwhile, Apple's competition is diversified across price points, receiving an average of $200-$300 in subsidies per device. On average, it is safe to assume that iPhone receives an incremental subsidy of $150 per device, when compared to the competition.

There are numerous estimates of the cost of acquiring a wireless subscriber. According to one estimate, the cost of acquiring a wireless subscriber ranges from $300 to $400. Another estimate measures this cost at $250 to $300 per customer. A research report from 1998 also estimates this cost as $400. Since estimates seem to be fluctuating even over such a long time frame, we can make a safe assumption of the cost of acquiring a customer as the high end of the ranges mentioned here, i.e. $400. Most reports also mention that acquiring a new customer costs five times as much as retaining a current customer, i.e. $80. So, the incremental cost to replace a subscriber would be the difference of these two, i.e. $320.

Costs savings due to reduced churn is only 27 percent of incremental subsidy cost for AT&T and 45 percent for Verizon. This means AT&T is actually losing a net figure of more than $2 billion, while Verizon is losing nearly $1 billion, due to high iPhone subsidies. Verizon's gap is lower because it sold fewer iPhones than AT&T."
Meh, the takeaway from that article is carriers just make less profit off iPhone customers compared to those with other devices. As I mentioned previously, that's actually one of the reasons I chose the iPhone over Android.

On the older style 2-year contract plans, my annual spend was $3,480 or $6,960 over the entire length of the contract. Assuming the phones cost $750 each ($450 subsidy + $300 for middle tier storage model) going to Apple, that's still $3,960 in revenue or $165/mo for AT&T.

Right now, I'm grandfathered in to a Mobile Share 20GB (10GB double data) plan which costs $160/mo so essentially the same as I was paying before purely for service. I just don't have to shoulder the built-in $400-450 subsidy so now there's an incentive to keep my phones for longer.

And really, one can go the prepaid route or something like Project Fi and spend less even after device costs.
 
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It's not a fine distinction, it's just wrong. AT&T's profit margins aren't the issue. That's a different conversation. We are not talking about that. We are talking about the cost of hardware. NO WE AREN'T!

If you have a phone already, it's $35 a month for service. If you need a phone, it's $349 at a minimum whether paid immediately or spread out over 24 months plus the same $35 a month for service. If AT&T hands you a new phone and all you pay is $35 for service, the phone is free because you didn't spend $349.
No it isn't free, I have to pay to use it. If they gave me the phone and didn't charge me, NOW IT'S FREE!!!
I was going to let this go, but I am NOT wrong. You may not agree with me, as I don't agree with you, but you aren't wrong so why am I? OBTW this has NOTHING to do with AT&T and what you pay or they charge. It's purely and solely about how one defines free.
This is why you get on the wrong side of folks. Just like you are now on mine.
 
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