iPhone X Apple is losing its mainstream, non-fan core with the X

[russelljg]

Once you stop adding killer functionality, price starts becoming more of an issue.

OLED vs LCD.... meh
Wireless Charging ....ok
FaceID vs TouchId... so what

Have we reached the limit of what a phone can do until there’s a quantum leap in technology e.g flexible devices, 3D, battery tech?

 

[0388631]

Apple could always come out with more home appliances. An Apple toilet may be cool for some. Heated seats, active wifi and 5G hotspot, ventilation built in, bidet, motorized popout screen to surf Twitter. I'm joking, but somewhere in Japan, a design engineer at Toto is doing just that.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

38M less people is a drop in the bucket when it comes to yearly sales. Anticipating people keeping their high end devices longer than others will almost certainly make up that loss amount. Once you factor in possible death of the owner, you can keep adding to the figure. Apple sells five different phones at the moment, at the same time. They've got the midrange market covered whereas Android had that covered with crappy low and and midrange phones.

Can't speak for your neck of the woods, but American carriers make it easier than ever to constantly upgrade phones each year. The numbers are too inconclusive to pass sweeping statements such as "the market is slowing down." Unless the can be broken down into what phones were sold in terms of maker and model, and what the demographics of the purchasers were, then the data is useless for the most part. A parent could buy their teen a phone and then have them use it for four years. I mean, really, why the hell would a teenager need the newest iPhone 8+ or X? Especially teenagers, they manage to mess everything up and do god knows what on their phones.

Apple may sell 5 different devices but there are currently 8 iPhone options including what carriers offer. You can still buy the 6S variants brand new here in Europe and both the 6S and 7 have reportedly sold better than the 8 in certain countries according to independent retailers. These same carriers and retailers have reported losses due to less upgrades.

The recent reports suggest 45% of all iPhone X sales were in the US with the rest of the world accounting for the other 65%. This is probably why the X is far rarer where I live and you can bet cheaper US pricing and generous carrier deals help that. I think this is why so many American posters here think Europeans are making it up when we say we’ve hardly seen anybody with an X. The annual upgrade packages are offered here too but I personally don’t know anybody who uses it due to the fact it basically makes you pay a two year contract in just 12 months. If I wanted an X on that package with my carrier, it would cost me £54 a month plus a sim contract which would be at least £15. There’s just no incentive here to use it unless you have money to burn.

 

[0388631]

I think this is why so many American posters here think Europeans are making it up when we say we’ve hardly seen anybody with an X

I don't think most Americans know how different it is in Europe. The vehicle I've been looking at for a while, for example, sells for just over £90,000 there in the UK, whereas the same model is over £12,000 cheaper to start with in the US. It's even more prohibitively expensive in Northern Europe, and even where the vehicle comes from, where it clocks in at a hair over €124,000. As someone who is from Europe originally, I do know how fortunate we Americans are now compared to people in other countries. And yet we still complain about prices. And I'm sure giving children expensive phones is almost unheard of in Europe nowadays.

 

[craigio85]

I only know one person who owns an X and he’s somebody who traded in a 7 on launch day and has practically every product Apple have on sale. I haven’t seen one out in the wild three months on from launch.

Increasingly, people are more interested in price and with remarkably little to distinguish the flagship model (in the eyes of the average consumer) people are upgrading to older models and saving the cost. The monthly prices for a contract with the X, in the UK, are eye-watering and in the sort of territory that most consumers view as silly money to be paying for a phone.

Ultimately both the 8 series and the X will sell well, but not in the way previous models have. I think the 7 set the trend for slow burn sales and presumably that’s Apple’s strategy now. A risky one at that considering that anybody who feels pissed at paying a price that’s still very firmly in the premium category for a 2/3 old device can easily swap to Android and get the latest flagship for a similar price.
[doublepost=1517742951][/doublepost]

Aside from services, it's not just about the iPhone X, it's about Apple having an iPhone in their lineup for a price point and option for something for everybody. That's something I think Apple has executed well with their expanded iPhone lineup all the way from iPhone SE starting at $350 and all the way up to the $1000 iPhone X.

I don’t really call leaving their old phones on sale with meagre price cuts a well executed tiering strategy. To me, it’s lazy and it doesn’t sit well alongside the recent press Apple had for choking the performance of older devices. Whatever the technical truth of that situation, the taste that’s left behind is that the consumer is expected to pay a premium price to upgrade to a device that Apple is already winding down.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Yes, there are those who are not going to uograde on an annual basis and keep their devices for a longer duration. But I think you're giving way too much credit to some consumers using the word "savvy". Carriers are making it way too easy for someone to want the latest device by financing it, offering promotions, trade in incentives, etc. Even with an expensive iPhone like the iPhone X, it's not stopping the average consumer from upgrading when the process is seamless and they factor the breakdown costs of a monthly installed payment versus the the cost of the iPhone as a whole. (Referencing the U.S.)

You are talking about the US though and the latest articles suggest 45% of X’s sold were in the US. Your carrier deals sound very good and are a hell of a lot cheaper than you’ll find in Europe. This suggestion the smartphone market has slowed might not apply to the US but it’s definitely noticeable elsewhere.

Even financed iPhone X’s are £70 ($98) per month on contract here on the cheaper deals. That has put the average consumer off here considerably.

 

[FFR]

Going back and reading some of these posts and it’s astonishing how wrong some of these posters were.

 

[Techman82]

Going back and reading some of these posts and it’s astonishing how wrong some of these posters were.

I think the op was very fair and reasonable, I have to say Like others have said i haven't seen anyone I know with an X, but like others have said the most i know have iPhones, I really can't imagine Steve Jobs liking the X design, Steve was hardcore like the people the op is talking about, he was a deep thinker who had a understanding of what people wanted from a device, design/software/compact/easy to use, I bet if he was alive and was shown the X for the first time he would probably throw it on the floor and stamp on it because it would not have been acceptable or made sense to him, and these are also the thoughts of the hardcore users the op is referring to, it has to be said, I mean at the price of the current iPhones the x was about 100 more than the 8 plus, so they were both too expensive, but yet if you were going to pay that much you might as well get the X, but alot people still got the 8/8plus, this shouldn't have been the case, there is no doubt apple has lost customers, last year the 8/8plus was a safe guard, but there is no safe guard this September.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

I think a lot of people agreed the X was aimed at the niche market rather than the mainstream iPhone user due to its high price. I think that proved to be correct.

 

[Shanghaichica]

I think the op was very fair and reasonable, I have to say Like others have said i haven't seen anyone I know with an X, but like others have said the most i know have iPhones, I really can't imagine Steve Jobs liking the X design, Steve was hardcore like the people the op is talking about, he was a deep thinker who had a understanding of what people wanted from a device, design/software/compact/easy to use, I bet if he was alive and was shown the X for the first time he would probably throw it on the floor and stamp on it because it would not have been acceptable or made sense to him, and these are also the thoughts of the hardcore users the op is referring to, it has to be said, I mean at the price of the current iPhones the x was about 100 more than the 8 plus, so they were both too expensive, but yet if you were going to pay that much you might as well get the X, but alot people still got the 8/8plus, this shouldn't have been the case, there is no doubt apple has lost customers, last year the 8/8plus was a safe guard, but there is no safe guard this September.

I think it’s impossible to say why Steve would have liked or wouldn’t have liked. However apart from the notch which is polarising, the X is compact, easy to use and has a good design.

You say they lost customers but the numbers don’t suggest that.

I do think the X should have cost less though. I think this year they have the 6.1 inch iPhone which is going to be cheaper. However there will always be those he prefer something a bit smaller who still want something new and I’m not sure if the new X will fit that bill. There will most likely be the 7 but it’s not new.

 

[Techman82]

I think a lot of people agreed the X was aimed at the niche market rather than the mainstream iPhone user due to its high price. I think that proved to be correct.

I have to disagree my friend, apple said when presenting the X on stage that the x was the iPhone they always wanted to make, it wasn't intended to be a niche product, it was a "testing the water device" to see what people thought of it, if they were so confident in it's design why was the 8/8plus offered as well. Oh well it looks like they have committed fully to the X design now, next March or April will be telling if people really dig the X design, like last September this September people will still buy the 8/8plus and in 2 years time it wouldn't surprise me to see that the 8 /8plus as apples all time best selling iphone.
[doublepost=1533712054][/doublepost]

I think it’s impossible to say why Steve would have liked or wouldn’t have liked. However apart from the notch which is polarising, the X is compact, easy to use and has a good design.

You say they lost customers but the numbers don’t suggest that.

I do think the X should have cost less though. I think this year they have the 6.1 inch iPhone which is going to be cheaper. However there will always be those he prefer something a bit smaller who still want something new and I’m not sure if the new X will fit that bill. There will most likely be the 7 but it’s not new.

Yes i agree with being a nice size and usability, but in fairness the experience starts with good design and the notch can't be overlooked as only flawed design, it's just stupid looking man in all fairness and anyone that switches on an X and thinks, that's all right, there not being honest.

 

[smirking]

Steve was hardcore like the people the op is talking about, he was a deep thinker who had a understanding of what people wanted from a device, design/software/compact/easy to use

So... I would iike to thank Steve for all those useless one button mice that came as paperweights with my past Macs. He gets it. He really understood what we really wanted even when we ignorantly asked for more buttons. When we finally got a mouse that had multiple buttons, he knew we wanted it to look like it didn't have any buttons at all and that it needed a really dorky looking ball in the middle.

I hear that people are still hoarding Steve's much beloved G4 cubes and people are bereft that the next Mac Pro won't look like an ashtray. Oh woe, there is nobody left in Cupertino who can think deeper than a mud puddle.

Oh come on. The iPhone X is a direct descendant of the Steve Jobs school of product design. Steve Jobs was bold and confident about what he believed. He scored big, but was also wrong at full volume a lot and could be unwilling to budge from views that had become unsound.

 

[Techman82]

So... I would iike to thank Steve for all those useless one button mice that came as paperweights with my past Macs. He gets it. He really understood what we really wanted even we ignorantly asked for more buttons. When we finally got a mouse that had multiple buttons, he knew we wanted one without physical buttons and a really dorky looking ball in the middle.

I hear that people are still hoarding Steve's much beloved G4 cubes and people are bereft that the next Mac Pro won't look like an ashtray. Oh woe, there is nobody left in Cupertino who can think deeper than a mud puddle.

Oh come on. The iPhone X is a direct descendant of the Steve Jobs school of product design. Steve Jobs was bold and confident about what he believed. He scored big, but was also wrong at full volume a lot and could be unwilling to budge from views that had become unsound.

Yes i agree with you on some of your views and he was stubborn and they didn't always get it right, But do you honestly think he would have thought the X was alright?

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

I have to disagree my friend, apple said when presenting the X on stage that the x was the iPhone they always wanted to make, it wasn't intended to be a niche product, it was a "testing the water device" to see what people thought of it, if they were so confident in it's design why was the 8/8plus offered as well. Oh well it looks like they have committed fully to the X design now, next March or April will be telling if people really dig the X design, like last September this September people will still buy the 8/8plus and in 2 years time it wouldn't surprise me to see that the 8 /8plus as apples all time best selling iphone.

Part of me thinks you could be correct but part of me wonders how Apple could be that out of touch with their core user base? As soon as the iPhone X was unveiled the price was heavily criticised all over the world. It was immediately obvious it wasn’t going to have the interest and reach of previous iPhones like the 5 and 6 that were £400 cheaper on release.

I agree they were testing the waters and they’ve claimed the X has been their best selling over two quarters, but they’ve also had 8 iPhone models on sale this year. The most of any year previously. It’s a very watered down line up with more choice than ever so to me that suggests they’ve had a good year across their larger range. I think this year we’ll see more interest this year in an updated offering for the mid tier in regards to the 6.1” iPhone. I just hope it’s not too feature robbed.

 

[smirking]

Yes i agree with you on some of your views and he was stubborn and they didn't always get it right, But do you honestly think he would have thought the X was alright?

I have no idea. I generally don't spend any time wondering what Steve Jobs would have done. He probably would have hated both the X and the 8 for the sole reason of them being big phones. If we'll remember, Apple under Steve Jobs had an unyielding belief that phones should never be over a certain size.

A lot of people default to the assumption that everything would be better if Steve Jobs were still around. It's hard to argue against that given the man's legend, but the opposite could easily be true too. It's not far fetched to consider that things could be worse.

 

[Techman82]

It's not really about Steve Jobs and what he would have thought but more about common sense and the fact that the X screen design with the notch affects the experience all because apple were desperate to have a full screen. The whole point is Full screen or no bezels was not ready because the technology isn't there and apple should have realized this and not went through with the X design

 

[aevan]

I think the op was very fair and reasonable, I have to say Like others have said i haven't seen anyone I know with an X, but like others have said the most i know have iPhones, I really can't imagine Steve Jobs liking the X design, Steve was hardcore like the people the op is talking about, he was a deep thinker who had a understanding of what people wanted from a device,

Personally, I think iPhone X is a product made with deep understanding of what people want from a device. It is the best iPhone ever made, but not only that, it is also the most joyful in a long time. It is thoughtfuly done, masterfuly crafted and is, in many ways, the purest representation of Apple. I do believe that Jobs would be very proud of it.

Besides, people give Jobs too much credit, he didn't do industrial design, in fact, the same people who designed the iPhones in his lifetime came up with the X. If you think that it was Jobs, and not their own personal style, philosophy and expertise that made iPhones what they are, you're mistaken. Sure, Jobs meddled here and there, but the deisgn was always in the hands of Ive and his team.

Some people act like all these designers, engineers, scientists, artists were like little children, tossing out silly ideas and making clueless decisions, and that it was Steve Jobs who brought them in line, making all the decisions, and should be given credit for the design of hit Apple devices. That's not how things work.
[doublepost=1533717734][/doublepost]

It's not really about Steve Jobs and what he would have thought but more about common sense and the fact that the X screen design with the notch affects the experience all because apple were desperate to have a full screen. The whole point is Full screen or no bezels was not ready because the technology isn't there and apple should have realized this and not went through with the X design

Notch does not affect the experience at all, which is reported almost unanimously by anyone who uses the X, and - in fact - it gives character to the device.

I can't believe after iPhone X turning out to be such a hit, after so many manufacturers copying the design - some people here still think the notch was a bad idea.

Anyway - the notch is hated only by fans of competing products, people making Samsung ads, people who don't have the X and a few people who like to bash Apple on these forums. For everyone else, it's either something you don't notice, or something that adds an interesting and unique look to your device, depending on your take.

 

[Techman82]

Personally, I think iPhone X is a product made with deep understanding of what people want from a device. It is the best iPhone ever made, but not only that, it is also the most joyful in a long time. It is thoughtfuly done, masterfuly crafted and is, in many ways, the purest representation of Apple. I do believe that Jobs would be very proud of it.

Besides, people give Jobs too much credit, he didn't do industrial design, in fact, the same people who designed the iPhones in his lifetime came up with the X. If you think that it was Jobs, and not their own personal style, philosophy and expertise that made iPhones what they are, you're mistaken. Sure, Jobs meddled here and there, but the deisgn was always in the hands of Ive and his team.

Some people act like all these designers, engineers, scientists, artists were like little children, tossing out silly ideas and making clueless decisions, and that it was Steve Jobs who brought them in line, making all the decisions, and should be given credit for the design of hit Apple devices. That's not how things work.
[doublepost=1533717734][/doublepost]

Notch does not affect the experience at all, which is reported almost unanimously by anyone who uses the X, and - in fact - it gives character to the device.

I can't believe after iPhone X turning out to be such a hit, after so many manufacturers copying the design - people still think the notch was a bad idea.

The X would have been what you said only for the notch, sure i agree that jobs didn't design and enginer and all that but his influence and approvement would have scrapped the x until the tech was there

 

[44267547]

It's not really about Steve Jobs and what he would have thought but more about common sense and the fact that the X screen design with the notch affects the experience all because apple were desperate to have a full screen. The whole point is Full screen or no bezels was not ready because the technology isn't there and apple should have realized this and not went through with the X design

How Do you know Apple was “desperate” to have a full screen? They utilized having bezels for four years with the same model iPhone from the iPhone 6 to the iPhone 8. They didn’t have to even use face ID if they did not want to, but they chose to, because they know that face ID is the future with 3-D facial mapping.

And what do you mean the “technology isn’t there”? It works exactly as its intended. The iPhone is the only company to utilize 3-D facial mapping on the smart phone market and soon you will have other tech manufactures following Apples footsteps very closely.

 

[Shanghaichica]

It's not really about Steve Jobs and what he would have thought but more about common sense and the fact that the X screen design with the notch affects the experience all because apple were desperate to have a full screen. The whole point is Full screen or no bezels was not ready because the technology isn't there and apple should have realized this and not went through with the X design

Imagine the outcry if they had just said oh well we can’t make a full screen phone so let’s just use the same design from the iPhone 6 for a 4th year.

 

[Techman82]

How Do you know Apple was “desperate” to have a full screen? They utilized having bezels for four years with the same model iPhone from the iPhone 6 to the iPhone 8. They didn’t have to even use face ID if they did not want to, but they chose to, because they know that face ID is the future with 3-D facial mapping.

And what do you mean the “technology isn’t there”? It works exactly as its intended. The iPhone is the only company to utilize 3-D facial mapping on the smart phone market and soon you will have other tech manufactures following Apples footsteps very closely.

Dude it's as you said they were using same design from the 6 on and with Samsung making headway with trimming down the bezels on there galaxies apple were under pressure to do better, what i mean about the technology wasn't there is, for the full no bezel iphone X it wasn't possible because of needed sensors/speaker and the front facing camera, where would you have put them? We are a year on and the same is coming this September only big and small, no improvement to the design and there won't be.

 

[Shanghaichica]

How Do you know Apple was “desperate” to have a full screen? They utilized having bezels for four years with the same model iPhone from the iPhone 6 to the iPhone 8. They didn’t have to even use face ID if they did not want to, but they chose to, because they know that face ID is the future with 3-D facial mapping.

And what do you mean the “technology isn’t there”? It works exactly as its intended. The iPhone is the only company to utilize 3-D facial mapping on the smart phone market and soon you will have other tech manufactures following Apples footsteps very closely.

I think google will be the first with the pixel 3 this year. I think they have some kind of 3D sensors in that notch.

 

[44267547]

Dude it's as you said they were using same design from the 6 on and with Samsung making headway with trimming down the bezels on there galaxies apple were under pressure to do better, what i mean about the technology wasn't there is, for the full no bezel iphone X it wasn't possible because of needed sensors/speaker and the front facing camera, where would you have put them? We are a year on and the same is coming this September only big and small, no improvement to the design and there won't be.

There doesn’t *need* to be a design change for the X and why would there need to be? I don’t think you understand smart phone tech very well, as you can expect the iPhone to change drastically every year, when they just introduced a new form factor and biometric technology change in 2017. This year will be about implementing refinements to face ID, adding new colors and sizes, Camera improvement‘s, etc. You can’t have the expectation that cell phone manufacturers are supposed to ‘reinvent the wheel’ every year.

 

[Techman82]

There doesn’t *need* to be a design change for the X and why would there need to be? I don’t think you understand smart phone tech very well, as you can expect the iPhone to change drastically every year, when they just introduced a new form factor and biometric technology change in 2017. This year will be about implementing refinements to face ID, adding new colors and sizes, Camera improvement‘s, etc. You can’t have the expectation that cell phone manufacturers are supposed to ‘reinvent the wheel’ every year.

I think your reading me wrong, surely apples and other manufacturers ultimate goal is for bezel free phone no? What I mean is of no improvement this year is, to improve on that goal, come on man you can't tell me every time you see a x that you don't say isn't it a pity about the intrusion of the notch, really? Also what i meant about the technology isn't there is, we now need the sensors/speaker and camera and they cannot all be put under screen, it's not possible that is the only reason the x is the way it is (notch) otherwise there would be same bezel all round.

 

[44267547]

come on man you can't tell me every time you see a x that you don't say isn't it a pity about the intrusion of the notch, really?

Why are you assuming the Notch is an issue for so many people? It’s not. For some it might be, but it doesn’t play a role or hinder me from enjoying the iPhone X experience. Its Very simple, if you don’t like the iPhone X, you simply don’t buy it. Why continually keep complaining about it.