Apple has too much brand recognition to be influenced on a large scale by a select few. Sure you can say PC with dozens of brands, but nearly everyone knows what an iPhone/ iPad is, or that a Mac is made by the same company. Chances are other people know friends and family who have them that are not tech savy who will give their own experiences or show their friends. There are far more less than tech savy people using these devices than the tech elite. Because thats primarily the target market Apple is shooting for with their business model.
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Apple Made Me Buy a Windows HP Workstation
- Thread starter Mark Holmes
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Apple has too much brand recognition to be influenced on a large scale by a select few. Sure you can say PC with dozens of brands, but nearly everyone knows what an iPhone/ iPad is, or that a Mac is made by the same company. Chances are other people know friends and family who have them that are not tech savy who will give their own experiences or show their friends. There are far more less than tech savy people using these devices than the tech elite. Because thats primarily the target market Apple is shooting for with their business model.
Huh? too many? Are you kidding me. When the iPhone first came out it was called a joke. The 'too many' happened after the elite kept at it. It took months to sell it's first million iphones.
If you can't see this comes from smaller influencers, or just disagree, fair enough. Let's leave it at we agree to disagree.
That was 2007...fast forward to 2016. A much different scenario now. If you think millions are going to leave now because of what a minority of people are going to say is not likely going to happen. Initially it might of caught on by some techies, but we are long past that stage.
Yea, apply your logic to apple in 1989 to 1996 to see why it spectacularly fails and falls flat on its face.
iPhone boomed on the tailcoats of iPod not Mac Pros. If it took a while to take off it was more to do with contracts and tie ins than it was anything else.
First guy to show off an iPhone to me was a director at Eyeboogie in Hollywood who I was meeting for a bid.
Second one was an MTV Promos director who was showing me his reel while we were doing a "Flava Flav" spot.
Came out of the ecosystem and they had the $$$ to play with the fresh Itoys. The things barely worked.
The teens got word from the media producers who used Macs
Second one was an MTV Promos director who was showing me his reel while we were doing a "Flava Flav" spot.
Came out of the ecosystem and they had the $$$ to play with the fresh Itoys. The things barely worked.
The teens got word from the media producers who used Macs
I've got a pile of Apple kit waiting for ebay for this very reason - a rMBP, a nMP and a load of thunderbolt storage. It all started because Apple don't make a laptop that meets my requirements any longer and I prefer to have a single platform. I thought I'd try out my old PC and measure real-world performance against the 6-core nMP with D700's, etc. the nMP is quicker than my PC (i7 3770k + GTX 980Ti) for CPU tasks, but not several thousand pounds quicker. The PC is much quicker for GPU bound tasks.
It's time to have a clear out of kit and wait until after the WWDC to see what Apple's plans really are, or to be more correct to just confirm what I already believe to be correct - Apple will not compete at the high-end on laptops with the Dell, HP and Lenovo and have anything that supports 64GB, and if there is an upgrade to the nMP it will be E5-v4 Xeon + TB 3 and a minor update to GPU's. It will still cost a lot more than it should for anything above 6 cores.
At this point I'll be placing orders with Dell and HP for laptop and desktop. I guess this might even be my last iPhone too if the rumours about the lack of 3.5mm jack are true as I don't want an adaptor to use my headphones on my iPhone, but no adaptor for everything else. That's just awkard - the current ones plug into everything.
All of this is a shame as OS X and iCloud are brilliant. I love all the little touches in there that make every day life much easier. Windows 10 isn't as good, but I'm learing to live with it. It's a shame Apple execs can't see the real world.
It's time to have a clear out of kit and wait until after the WWDC to see what Apple's plans really are, or to be more correct to just confirm what I already believe to be correct - Apple will not compete at the high-end on laptops with the Dell, HP and Lenovo and have anything that supports 64GB, and if there is an upgrade to the nMP it will be E5-v4 Xeon + TB 3 and a minor update to GPU's. It will still cost a lot more than it should for anything above 6 cores.
At this point I'll be placing orders with Dell and HP for laptop and desktop. I guess this might even be my last iPhone too if the rumours about the lack of 3.5mm jack are true as I don't want an adaptor to use my headphones on my iPhone, but no adaptor for everything else. That's just awkard - the current ones plug into everything.
All of this is a shame as OS X and iCloud are brilliant. I love all the little touches in there that make every day life much easier. Windows 10 isn't as good, but I'm learing to live with it. It's a shame Apple execs can't see the real world.
They don't have the PCI-e Lanes to do TB-3 unless they cut down the GPU's to X8 X8 or they cut down some other part or they run TB-3 over the DMI link that is only PCI-E X4 from cpu to PCH.
This is such a great thread...expressing my sentiments exactly towards Apple at the moment.
I am a pro video editor needing to upgrade but the iMac GPUs are far too weak..and the MacPro is unbuyable at that price for such old, unrefreshed technology.
As a lifelong Apple fan, I am now looking at an HP workstation...something I never thought i'd say.
I am a pro video editor needing to upgrade but the iMac GPUs are far too weak..and the MacPro is unbuyable at that price for such old, unrefreshed technology.
As a lifelong Apple fan, I am now looking at an HP workstation...something I never thought i'd say.
Article about and quoting from this thread
"Apple’s Failure to Scale"
http://www.macobserver.com/tmo/article/apples-failure-to-scale
"Apple’s Failure to Scale"
http://www.macobserver.com/tmo/article/apples-failure-to-scale
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I'll share the sentiment as well. I've been a solid Mac Pro user for 15 years, have all the gadgets and have been waiting to upgrade my 2010 Mac Pro. But if the next Mac Pro is not a upgradable killer machine in a much better case, it's bye bye Apple hello Windows 10 and PC hardware. Apple is not a full on computer company anymore, they are primarily a phone company with media interests and soon to be car company. Seriously is that who we want to buy a computer from, I think not.
And it's not Apple that makes Apple cool it's the creative people using the the computers. And they are not using Macs anymore.
[doublepost=1462287767][/doublepost]And don't even get me started on iTunes, what a complete mess of a program, I loath opening it.
And it's not Apple that makes Apple cool it's the creative people using the the computers. And they are not using Macs anymore.
[doublepost=1462287767][/doublepost]And don't even get me started on iTunes, what a complete mess of a program, I loath opening it.
This is simply not valid argument. It is like saying you do not like the new Pentium motherboards because they dont have the ISA slots, they only have PCI slots.
The TB2 and USB 3 connectivity is perfectly capable of enough throughput to facilitate HD and 4K work. I can't think of a single function that you can accomplish via PCIE that does not have a solution via Thunderbolt.
On my personal Mac Pro I've got a couple external drive arrays connected via TB2, and have a non-raid external drive on USB3 for non-critical stuff. Works great and is as fast as anything internal. I've also got firewire rack gear attached via TB to 1394 adapters. Is it a kind of messy bundle of cables? Well yeah, but I'm too busy looking at my screen to care, and there are cable management solutions if that really bothers you.
When I worked in a broadcast facility I rarely saw any internally mounted storage anyway. Most of our big storage was in the form of SAN and NAS volumes. And a lot of projects came in on WD and (hated) La Cie drives, which we just scanned for malware and plugged in.
I DO think it is absurd that they are selling machines based on Xeons from 3 years ago with DDR3 ram, at no discount in price. And the video cards are far out of date at this point (and not a lot of content creation apps are taking advantage of them as co-processors). It also is a huge glaring mistake that a $3-10,000 machine that can fit in a backpack, does not have a slot for a locking cable to secure it!
The HP Z640 is a nice machine. If I was working in Avid I'd probably pick up one of those, or one of their workstation laptops. I do dislike how much HP charges for some of their upgrades. Makes the 'Apple tax' look like a light peck in comparison.
Well your experience and needs clearly trump and invalidate everyone else's experience and needs in this thread. Including ssds running on pci with 5900mbs throughput that would not get through thunderbolt 2.
This would be a valid comparison if the ISA slots lost were faster than the PCI ones.
At the low end, as long as you don’t want to connect a lot of other things that take up bandwidth, like monitors, capture cards, storage, etc, TB2 can be passable. It’s a terrific solution for mobile use on a laptop where performance expectations are already low.
You’re not thinking very hard then.
TB2 tops out around 1200MB/s. So no, not as fast as anything internal.
Try connecting a GPU or 2 via TB2 on nMP 6,1. The lack of real bandwidth and numerous smoke & mirrors switches reveal the glass jaw.
Since "History" likes to repeat itself: maybe HP will officially license OSX as an optional operating system. Similar to their cell phone adventure, when they (HP) bought the Palm OS.
Then, after a year or two, Tim Cook will simply jettison OSX & let HP pick up the crumbs.
Then, after a year or two, Tim Cook will simply jettison OSX & let HP pick up the crumbs.
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Yeah that's what kinda what I have been going over lately.
The current OS status to me is:
Mac OS X is the best OS (quick install, quick updates, Linux below also has this)
Linux with Chromium (Chromebook) is competitive, but you can install on ANY HARDWARE (generalizing)
Windows 10 (doing really well actually, and updates in under 15 minutes, and installs in similar time to the others, not 7 tho)
So now there is really this NEW battle for which OS is the best again. Because if you give the fact to Linux & Win 10 that they can be used on ANY hardware, that is a HUGE advantage, even tho Mac OS X, is fully featured. And don't under estimate Linux with Chromium, it's got everything except Adobe (and some Audio Tools).
It's just a battle now for the next 3-5 years...
Linux on Chromebook = major PITA and spending half the time fixing things that decided to break all of a sudden
Mac OS X = increasingly frustrating but not painful enough yet for me to switch to Windows (especially as I'd have to buy some software again)
Windows 10 = holy crap lions, it's FAST. Opens in about 1/3 time that El Capitan takes from a fast SSD. And it looks pretty good on a desktop – it's less crayon-like than El Cap. But I haven't used it past installing it for a customer, migrating all his data, fixing privacy settings and removing the live tiles (he had no clue what the hell that was but he didn't like it).
So I'm still a Mac, not quite a PC and definitely not a Chromebook. Tim Cook's Sales Prevention Team is working hard on moving me to Windows, but I still haven't given up.
Mac OS X = increasingly frustrating but not painful enough yet for me to switch to Windows (especially as I'd have to buy some software again)
Windows 10 = holy crap lions, it's FAST. Opens in about 1/3 time that El Capitan takes from a fast SSD. And it looks pretty good on a desktop – it's less crayon-like than El Cap. But I haven't used it past installing it for a customer, migrating all his data, fixing privacy settings and removing the live tiles (he had no clue what the hell that was but he didn't like it).
So I'm still a Mac, not quite a PC and definitely not a Chromebook. Tim Cook's Sales Prevention Team is working hard on moving me to Windows, but I still haven't given up.
I have an iPad Mini that I use for RDP, but it frustrates me because mouse support is disabled in iOS. All of the apps I've tried attempt to get around this by translating various touch screen gestures to mouse commands, and some of it is clever, but it's still not nearly as good as straight up mouse support.
The application I use actually supports mice. Yes, even on iOS. I talked to their support about it and they said iOS has Bluetooth mouse support built-in and even has an API for apps, but it's turned off. Jailbreakers can simply turn it on, with no need to install or patch anything, and then this company's RDP app works with the mouse. I don't want to jailbreak though, it's a pain.
It's already there, I just wish Apple would turn it on.
Does the iPad Pro have Bluetooth mouse support enabled, or is it in the same boat as other iOS devices?
Oh, i will admit, I'm keeping the old Mac Pro as well. Still perfectly suitable for photo editing and personal use.. Just wish Apple could come to their senses and build a real replacement for the Mac Pro.
The saddest thing here is that you're not then adding "and what a surprise - Windows is great!"
Apple have been churning out the same stuff for years and large chunks of their customer base are getting frustrated. Windows have had a decade to step-up and create an OS that doesn't still feel like Windows XP, but instead they've kept the same clunky, unattractive OS we're all used to.
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Like!
We all joke about Apple being too busy working on watches to bother with the Mac, but I think there is real truth to that. There was that one WWDC conference where Steve Jobs openly admitted that OS X was late because they took engineers from it and put them on iOS.
But there's also a leadership issue. If you look at Apple's leadership structure, you can see that it's very nature would hold back the Mac. The way the leadership team is organized, you'll see titles like "VP of software", "VP of hardware", "VP of UI", and the like.
Take for example the "VP of Hardware Engineering", Dan Riccio. I suppose this structure means that Mr Riccio is responsible for hardware engineering across the company, including watches, iPhones, tablets, Macs, and cars. He can't focus on a product line because he's responsible for all of them. Probably he spends most of his effort on the newer lines or the "hottest" lines, and almost nothing on Macs. Same for all of the other VPs. If you were in the that position, would you care more about attaching your name to something "cool" and massively profitable like the iPhone and an entirely new line for the future company like the Apple Car, or to a 10 year old line like the Mac Pro?
I'm sure if you dig down far enough you'll eventually get to someone who is the "head of Macintosh division". But what I'd like to see is a "VP of Macintosh". Someone, at the VP level, who is responsible entirely for the Mac and only for the Mac. He or she would make the Mac the best it could be. He or she would not worry about watch bands, slimming a tablet, or the shape of trunk lids.
Yes, yes, I know. Apple leadership is doing just fine without my advice. I'm just stating what I'd like to see, as a Mac user.
But there's also a leadership issue. If you look at Apple's leadership structure, you can see that it's very nature would hold back the Mac. The way the leadership team is organized, you'll see titles like "VP of software", "VP of hardware", "VP of UI", and the like.
Take for example the "VP of Hardware Engineering", Dan Riccio. I suppose this structure means that Mr Riccio is responsible for hardware engineering across the company, including watches, iPhones, tablets, Macs, and cars. He can't focus on a product line because he's responsible for all of them. Probably he spends most of his effort on the newer lines or the "hottest" lines, and almost nothing on Macs. Same for all of the other VPs. If you were in the that position, would you care more about attaching your name to something "cool" and massively profitable like the iPhone and an entirely new line for the future company like the Apple Car, or to a 10 year old line like the Mac Pro?
I'm sure if you dig down far enough you'll eventually get to someone who is the "head of Macintosh division". But what I'd like to see is a "VP of Macintosh". Someone, at the VP level, who is responsible entirely for the Mac and only for the Mac. He or she would make the Mac the best it could be. He or she would not worry about watch bands, slimming a tablet, or the shape of trunk lids.
Yes, yes, I know. Apple leadership is doing just fine without my advice.
I'm just stating what I'd like to see, as a Mac user.
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I feel like the nMP users are the last soldiers hiding in the jungle, unaware that the war has been over for years.