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I use my HomePod as a source for my KEF LS50 WII - these have a high-end DAC and AirPlay 2 as well as connect clients for the other streaming services. They can play 24/48 and up happily from those sources but I need my phone in my hand (or nearby) to do anything to the stream when not using the HomePod as a source.

I can just talk to the nearby HomePod "Hey Siri play XYZ in the Lounge" and all the controls work by voice and it appears on my iPhone too. Sounds great. Occasionally I use multi-room.

What I want is just 24/48 to pass-through from my HomePod in this scenario since it gives great voice control, doesn't need my phone in my hand and I can do multi-room. AirPlay 2 is limited to 24/48 but I don't see that as a major.

I just want to not have the whole thing coming from my iPhone and to be at a better quality but not Max quality since my speakers live in a normal room in the real world.

My home devices to play music are: HomePod - kitchen/family room, HomePod Mini - bathroom, Apple TV 4K Gen 2 - bedroom (though TV to Paradigm 2.1), KEF in lounge. They have different DAC capabilities but all do AirPlay 2.

The lowest capability device will either have to drop out of Multi-Room or all will have to play a lower quality stream to accommodate that device. It is rare I do multi-room in the whole house. Usually (Lounge + Kitchen) OR (Bedroom + Bathroom).

I can tell the HomePod to get the Apple TV to play to the KEFs but that gets clunky and I may as well just AirPlay from my phone. So I'm back to having a device in my hand or nearby to talk to.

I am grateful this is coming, but AirPlay 2 as a source to non-Apple devices needs a think.
 
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If Steve Jobs were alive, he'd have just FIRED everyone up to and including Tim Cook involved in this Lossless fiasco and he'd have told the record companies, we're selling LOSSLESS to the masses or we're pulling the entire music catalog! He wouldn't have done any of that, but he'd have made a convincing threat of it to get the conditions to sell the music under his acceptable to Apple conditions and not theirs typical BS.
 
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Apple in June 2021 is adding new Lossless and Hi-Res Lossless tiers to Apple Music, but so far, it's a bit confusing trying to determine which devices support Apple Music's Lossless Audio and which devices do not.


This guide covers everything that we know so far about Lossless Audio, and we'll be updating it as we learn more after the new feature launches.

What is Lossless Audio?

Apple is upgrading its entire streaming music catalog to lossless audio using the ALAC (Apple Lossless Audio Codec) format. ALAC is a lossless compression format that lets Apple make smaller file sizes without impacting the integrity of the original audio recording.

Lossless means that after compression and then decompression, the audio that you're hearing is identical to the audio as it was recorded by the artist, preserving the texture, detail, and sound that went into the music when it was created.

With lossless audio, Apple Music subscribers can listen to songs exactly as the artists recorded them in the studio and intended them to be heard.

Lossless Device Support

Lossless-Support-Feature.jpg


Supported

According to Apple, lossless audio on Apple Music can be listened to on iPhone, iPad, Mac, and Apple TV.

Unsupported

None of Apple's headphones, however, work with lossless audio, nor does the HomePod or the HomePod mini. The AirPods, AirPods Pro, and AirPods Max are limited to the Bluetooth AAC codec and simply cannot support the ALAC format.

Lossless Audio Quality

The standard Lossless tier will start at CD quality, which is 16-bit at 44.1 kHz, and it goes up to 24-bit at 48 kHz. Apple is also adding a Hi-Res Lossless tier for audiophiles, which is available at 24-bit 192 kHz, but Hi-Res Lossless will require a USB digital-to-analog converter, or DAC.

Even when connected by a physical wire, the AirPods Max won't support true lossless audio.

It is not clear if ALAC support is something that Apple can add in the future because technically, Bluetooth 5.0 should support higher bitrates, nor is it known if Apple plans to add support to future audio devices.

Lossless Audio Songs

When Apple launches lossless music tracks, 20 million songs will support the codec, and all 75 million+ songs on Apple Music will support lossless audio by the end of 2021.

The feature is limited to Apple Music streaming subscribers. Lossless quality will not be available for iTunes purchases and there is no way to upgrade owned music to lossless via iTunes Match.

Can You Even Hear Lossless Audio?

Lossless audio is not a new concept, and has in fact been supported via iTunes and the Apple Music app for Mac for years now. There is some controversy over lossless audio, and there are quite a few people out there who are unable to hear the difference between lossy audio and uncompressed lossless audio files.

There are also other considerations to take into account, such as the quality of the device that you're listening to music on. Lossless audio is designed for audiophiles and most people will not miss lossless quality on their HomePod, AirPods, AirPods Pro, and AirPods Max.

Spatial Audio with Dolby Atmos

Apple's more notable Apple Music announcement has been somewhat overshadowed by the lossless music feature. The HomePod, all AirPods, and all Beats headphones with Apple's H1 or W1 chip automatically support a new Spatial Audio with Dolby Atmos feature that Apple is bringing to Apple Music. Spatial Audio for other headphones paired with an Apple device can be enabled manually via the Settings app on your device.

imac-spatial-audio.png


With this feature, artists are able to record multi-dimensional audio that will make it sound like the music is coming from all around you.

Apple Music Launch Date

Apple is laying the groundwork for the new Apple Music update in iOS 14.6, tvOS 14.6, and macOS Big Sur 11.4, and plans to enable lossless audio and Spatial Audio with Dolby Atmos in June.

Article Link: Apple Music Lossless: What Devices are Supported?
I am both a Tidal and Apple Music subscriber. Would love to consolidate into one service. But Tidal always got me hooked on Hi-Res as use on my Naim Stereo streamer. Seriously now thinking to drop Tidal. But a show stopper for me would be if AirPlay 2 doesn’t supports lossless streaming.




Apple in June 2021 is adding new Lossless and Hi-Res Lossless tiers to Apple Music, but so far, it's a bit confusing trying to determine which devices support Apple Music's Lossless Audio and which devices do not.


This guide covers everything that we know so far about Lossless Audio, and we'll be updating it as we learn more after the new feature launches.

What is Lossless Audio?

Apple is upgrading its entire streaming music catalog to lossless audio using the ALAC (Apple Lossless Audio Codec) format. ALAC is a lossless compression format that lets Apple make smaller file sizes without impacting the integrity of the original audio recording.

Lossless means that after compression and then decompression, the audio that you're hearing is identical to the audio as it was recorded by the artist, preserving the texture, detail, and sound that went into the music when it was created.

With lossless audio, Apple Music subscribers can listen to songs exactly as the artists recorded them in the studio and intended them to be heard.

Lossless Device Support

Lossless-Support-Feature.jpg


Supported

According to Apple, lossless audio on Apple Music can be listened to on iPhone, iPad, Mac, and Apple TV.

Unsupported

None of Apple's headphones, however, work with lossless audio, nor does the HomePod or the HomePod mini. The AirPods, AirPods Pro, and AirPods Max are limited to the Bluetooth AAC codec and simply cannot support the ALAC format.

Lossless Audio Quality

The standard Lossless tier will start at CD quality, which is 16-bit at 44.1 kHz, and it goes up to 24-bit at 48 kHz. Apple is also adding a Hi-Res Lossless tier for audiophiles, which is available at 24-bit 192 kHz, but Hi-Res Lossless will require a USB digital-to-analog converter, or DAC.

Even when connected by a physical wire, the AirPods Max won't support true lossless audio.

It is not clear if ALAC support is something that Apple can add in the future because technically, Bluetooth 5.0 should support higher bitrates, nor is it known if Apple plans to add support to future audio devices.

Lossless Audio Songs

When Apple launches lossless music tracks, 20 million songs will support the codec, and all 75 million+ songs on Apple Music will support lossless audio by the end of 2021.

The feature is limited to Apple Music streaming subscribers. Lossless quality will not be available for iTunes purchases and there is no way to upgrade owned music to lossless via iTunes Match.

Can You Even Hear Lossless Audio?

Lossless audio is not a new concept, and has in fact been supported via iTunes and the Apple Music app for Mac for years now. There is some controversy over lossless audio, and there are quite a few people out there who are unable to hear the difference between lossy audio and uncompressed lossless audio files.

There are also other considerations to take into account, such as the quality of the device that you're listening to music on. Lossless audio is designed for audiophiles and most people will not miss lossless quality on their HomePod, AirPods, AirPods Pro, and AirPods Max.

Spatial Audio with Dolby Atmos

Apple's more notable Apple Music announcement has been somewhat overshadowed by the lossless music feature. The HomePod, all AirPods, and all Beats headphones with Apple's H1 or W1 chip automatically support a new Spatial Audio with Dolby Atmos feature that Apple is bringing to Apple Music. Spatial Audio for other headphones paired with an Apple device can be enabled manually via the Settings app on your device.

imac-spatial-audio.png


With this feature, artists are able to record multi-dimensional audio that will make it sound like the music is coming from all around you.

Apple Music Launch Date

Apple is laying the groundwork for the new Apple Music update in iOS 14.6, tvOS 14.6, and macOS Big Sur 11.4, and plans to enable lossless audio and Spatial Audio with Dolby Atmos in June.

Article Link: Apple Music Lossless: What Devices are Supported?
Does airplay 2 support lossless or hires lossless?

I have a Naim stereo streamer and subscribe to both Apple Music and Tidal. With Apple Music about to support a minimum of lossless I would drop my Tidal subscription if I could use Airplay 2 this way.

Upto now there has been a definite drop in perceivable quality going from the Naim streaming app using the built in Tidal link or even Tidal app with Chromecast going to Apple Music using Airplay 2 and their 256kps AAC source.

Unfortunately there is no native Naim streamer application link so the only way to use Apple Music on the Naim Uniti Streamers is via Air Play 2 directly off an IOS or MacOS source.
 
The files were then Phase reversed, if both files were identical, this would cancel out the sound entirely.

We know compressed music doesn't phase cancel. That doesn't mean it's something the human ear can actually perceive.

This so called "obscure tracks" are just varying different genres. If you've got amazing ears you should easily be able to pick out this "audible compression" by comparing the hi-hats alone.

The best is when audiophiles finally agree you can't hear the actual difference but that extended listening is more "fatiguing" to the ear than the lossless version. Incredible.

Not the worse thing to come out of that community though - I once saw a bloke say that his digital audio music files sounded better once he upgraded the ethernet cable the data was being transferred with.
 
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I know from experience that whole instruments go missing between different MP3 formats like 128 to 256. I was shocked on one there were instruments in the background in the other they had been compressed away. I guess yr already at the high end here.

Oh definitely at 128 to 256kbps is the audible compression range of MP3. 128kbps is especially bad.

320kbps MP3 is unnoticeable though - the files are not particularly small either though.
256kbps AAC is slightly better as it's a more efficient codec.
 
The Dolby Atmos surround content will be mixed in that format, by engineers in a recording studio. I don't think Apple will be using some sort of filter effect to simulate surround from stereo sources. That would be terrible.

You mean for new titles, not old ones right? It would be hard to do that for 75 million tracks. My reading of the announcement is that all tracks will eventually be available in Atmos. Certainly my experience with 2 track titles converted to Atmos has not been good, but Apple may have some tricks up its sleeve.
 
puts a bit nail in Tidals coffin

Not so sure. Jay Z sold Tidal to Square just a few weeks before the Apple announcement for ~6 times what Jay Z paid for it so it now has almost unlimited cash available. It isn't just a streaming service, it also includes the licensing deals with labels and artists. Square is also using it with hip hop influencers who reference the Cash app in their lyrics.

There is also the deal with Sprint, and the fact that Tidal is integrated into a lot of other products. The Marantz/Denon HEOS app, for example, allows you to stream Tidal, but there is no option to stream Apple Music. Roon allows you to integrate Tidal with your own library, etc.
 
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Does airplay 2 support lossless or hires lossless?
Yes. Up to 24 bit / 48Khz. Anything above (hires) gets downsampled. Your ears won't be able to tell the difference. Extreme bitrates only gives headroom for mixing and mastering - for audio delivery and listening it brings nothing but complications to the table.

The main thing here now is insisting on quality masters, 100% of bad audio comes from poor mixing and mastering. Do not worry about too many imperceptible differences between lossless and lossy audio - the source of which is all that matters.
 
Have no idea where you got that 1%. It is somewhere in the 100% to 300% range.
It’s a question, the rest says:
If not < 1%, would you be able to quantify how much ? Because I’m genuinely interested to know the amount of difference we are talking about here.

how to you find a 100 ou 300% difference ? How to you measure the quality you hear beyond subjective perception ?
 
When you think about it, it actually makes perfect sense why Apple Music Lossless isn't supported on their speciality audio devices.
 
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Not so sure. Jay Z sold Tidal to Square just a few weeks before the Apple announcement for ~6 times what Jay Z paid for it so it now has almost unlimited cash available. It isn't just a streaming service, it also includes the licensing deals with labels and artists. Square is also using it with hip hop influencers who reference the Cash app in their lyrics.

There is also the deal with Sprint, and the fact that Tidal is integrated into a lot of other products. The Marantz/Denon HEOS app, for example, allows you to stream Tidal, but there is no option to stream Apple Music. Roon allows you to integrate Tidal with your own library, etc.
Jay z had cashed in on his investments lately huh!
 
Not so sure. Jay Z sold Tidal to Square just a few weeks before the Apple announcement for ~6 times what Jay Z paid for it so it now has almost unlimited cash available. It isn't just a streaming service, it also includes the licensing deals with labels and artists. Square is also using it with hip hop influencers who reference the Cash app in their lyrics.

There is also the deal with Sprint, and the fact that Tidal is integrated into a lot of other products. The Marantz/Denon HEOS app, for example, allows you to stream Tidal, but there is no option to stream Apple Music. Roon allows you to integrate Tidal with your own library, etc.

So Apple Music could be Hip Hop Free in the future if they all jump to Tidal?
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The reasons to sign up for AM keep coming :)

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Folks won't hear it. I have ripped CDs in uncompressed WAV format that I use as reference for mixing and mastering purposes, and have compared them directly to their Apple Music high quality streams versions within the iMac I have for recording plugged to my audio interfaces and monitor speakers... It's extremely hard to discern one from the other.

Also, people here waiting to hear any difference between lossless and HiFi using a DAC and "expensive" wired headphones, are in for a rude awakening. Unless your high end headphones have a frequency response beyond the 20Hz-20KHz range (human hearing range) you won't hear the real difference. To actually kinda "hear" the 24bit/96KHz range, your headphones or speakers should go from 15Hz up to at least 48KHz. If you wanna try hearing the 24bit/192KHz range, your headphones gotta go below 15Hz up to 96KHz. I say try, but in reality I mean trick yourself into believing you can hear it. You can't. Period. Those resolutions are used when recording only, especially when using virtual instruments and space or reverberation plugins for movies. Increased resolution results in a little bit clearer reverb tails and bass response that when bounced down to human hearing range, won't mess with the overall mix and retain clarity. But it's extremely surgical, so regular people won't notice it.

Anyways, headphones are a very bad medium for stereo image, that's why they are NOT used when mixing or mastering. They are just a comparison reference to check if your final master won't sound weird in them. Enter Atmos and other psychoacustic systems like Waves' Nx spatial audio positioning (I own a plugin of the latter for my DAW to mix using headphones.) They are used to simulate an acoustic space with high-end speakers in front and around you using your headphones. The hard part is that for these systems to work, you need precise response curves from your headphone set for the positional audio system to make the compensation and translate the high-end acoustic space to your ears. Apple has standardized their Mac, wired and wireless speakers, so now they are in a position to implement a system like Atmos. We have predictable speakers if we are in their ecosystem. Don't expect surround effects in regular music recordings. Expect improved stereo image with headphones, as if you were in a mastering room with two extremely high end speakers in front of you, or even surround setups when watching movies. You can rotate your head and will get the effect that audio bounces back and in front of the room accordingly. Also, these spatial audio systems are compression and resolution independent, that's why they are supported with AirPods and wireless streaming.

Posting this just trying to clarify some audio tech lingo being thrown around so folks don't have the wrong expectations regarding lossless, spatial audio and HiFi playback.
Is Dolby Atmos going to be available across all tracks on Apple Music, like an effect that introduces widening binaural effects or do tracks need to be entirely remixed with Dolby Atmos? Or is DA being used as a remastering tool on select tracks? Listening to the tracks on this Dolby page, they sound like they were totally mixed from the ground up with Dolby Atmos, you definitely hear how much it widens music and how sounds exist as objects in 3D space: https://www.dolby.com/atmos-visualizer-music/

In contrast, I've listened to DA tracks on Tidal HiFi and my impression is that it's maybe a bit wider and definitely louder-seeming. Or do I think I'm hearing that on the suggestion?
Seems to me like tracks (including old stuff) are at least remastered new stereo files that can be appreciated to some degree with any headphones, otherwise Tidal would be offering it on all tracks. Tidal's site suggests you need Android or Apple TV 4K to hear DA, which would assume there's some kind of decoding going on. But then why do I obviously hear DA with the dolby site's "visualizer" (but not so obviously with Tidal's dolby playlists)?
 
How to you measure the quality you hear beyond subjective perception ?

What's more subjective than music? A track that brings tears to my eyes may be just noise to someone else, and visa versa.

The discussion about what the ears can/cannot hear will never be resolved since people are pretty much wedded to their positions. What has been left out of the discussion is maybe the most important part - the brain. Given the exact same ears 2 people can hear totally different things. Musicians use the occiptal cortex, while laypersons use the temporal lobe.

My brains' response to a great classical piano concert recording varies immensely, due to factors not relevant to the discussion. At best I am seated in the center of the stage, instruments all around me. I can hear the sound of the hammer hitting the piano keys, the rattle of the steel frames on the percussions instruments. As I get less responsive, I am moved to a lodge seat. Can't hear the hammer or rattle anymore, but can distinguish the individual instruments. When things are worse I'm in the upper balcony and hear a glob of sound, can't distinguish or locate individual instruments. When I am at the back of the balcony I can no longer even listen to the glob - it is out of tune, distorted, unpleasant.

Even though I shouldn't be able to hear a difference between lossey and lossless music I do. Some of this may be due to training. In high school and later I always purchased the best audio devices that I could afford - electrostatic speakers and Grado headphones. My current setup has been reviewed to sound in the mid 5 digit price range, although I didn't spend that much.

My suspicion is that once large numbers of people have access to lossless music on good devices these arguments about what you can or cannot hear may be resolved.

 
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What's more subjective than music? A track that brings tears to my eyes may be just noise to someone else, and visa versa.

The discussion about what the ears can/cannot hear will never be resolved since people are pretty much wedded to their positions. What has been left out of the discussion is maybe the most important part - the brain. Given the exact same ears 2 people can hear totally different things. Musicians use the occiptal cortex, while laypersons use the temporal lobe.

My brains' response to a great classical piano concert recording varies immensely, due to factors not relevant to the discussion. At best I am seated in the center of the stage, instruments all around me. I can hear the sound of the hammer hitting the piano keys, the rattle of the steel frames on the percussions instruments. As I get less responsive, I am moved to a lodge seat. Can't hear the hammer or rattle anymore, but can distinguish the individual instruments. When things are worse I'm in the upper balcony and hear a glob of sound, can't distinguish or locate individual instruments. When I am at the back of the balcony I can no longer even listen to the glob - it is out of tune, distorted, unpleasant.

Even though I shouldn't be able to hear a difference between lossey and lossless music I do. Some of this may be due to training. In high school and later I always purchased the best audio devices that I could afford - electrostatic speakers and Grado headphones. My current setup has been reviewed to sound in the mid 5 digit price range, although I didn't spend that much.

My suspicion is that once large numbers of people have access to lossless music on good devices these arguments about what you can or cannot hear may be resolved.


It’s a very interesting answer.
I feel like moving from 30$ headphones to 300$ makes a huge difference. Past a certain point it’s not an exponential curve but more like a logarithmic one. Meaning that the amount of money you spent is not necessarily proportional to the benefit you got as a difference of perceptible quality.

And you highlighted something important: trained ears. Not everyone has them and not everyone has good hearing. But everyone can enjoy 90 to 95% good enough music.
That’s the whole idea, if you want and can reach spend the money to try to reach the last 10% good for you. But that doesn’t mean that the people who stop at 90% can’t enjoy either.
We spent time and money as we please but it’s not because other people can’t or don’t want that we should feel superior to them because we can.
The most important thing is that music brings emotions and pleasure as you said either in AAC or Lossless and I know a lot of people who don’t know what AAC or lossless is and enjoy and dance on music everyday.
The price of a CD for unlimited access to millions of songs in an almost identical format, even 90% is a mind blowing deal for anyone 20y ago isn’t it ? Being able to discover new bands and genres without piracy and for cheap money compared to before is the deal.
Anyone who thinks that we can’t enjoy music without reaching the 99% of the spectrum might just need to feel superior to others and that’s understandable because as you spend more and more money it has to have a better quality right ? Why would I spent 50k if it’s just in my brain ? It’s other people who can’t hear the difference.
 
I feel like moving from 30$ headphones to 300$ makes a huge difference. Past a certain point it’s not an exponential curve but more like a logarithmic one. Meaning that the amount of money you spent is not necessarily proportional to the benefit you got as a difference of perceptible quality.

Yes. I'm not sure what the $ midpoint is for headphones. There is probably a different midpoint for every individual. I have/had several headphones in the $1k range, but I'm not sure that they make that much a difference. My wh1000xm4s clearly are not that good, but for $50 less you can get the Audio-Technica ATH-M70X ($300, wired), which have totally amazing sound and are my preferred critical listening headphones. Spending $3k to $6k for an Audeze or HiFiMan set for me makes no sense, but it might make a difference to others with different ears and internal processing.

Being able to discover new bands and genres without piracy and for cheap money compared to before is the deal.

Totally amazing. Rather than being restricted to country based content you can now access music from all over the world. I go through Apple Music's top 100 country playlists and keep finding tracks that would have been impossible to find before streaming became available. Once found I them add them to Tidal. Have found a number of great tracks on the Italian list - they love tubas!
 
Is Dolby Atmos going to be available across all tracks on Apple Music, like an effect that introduces widening binaural effects or do tracks need to be entirely remixed with Dolby Atmos? Or is DA being used as a remastering tool on select tracks? Listening to the tracks on this Dolby page, they sound like they were totally mixed from the ground up with Dolby Atmos, you definitely hear how much it widens music and how sounds exist as objects in 3D space: https://www.dolby.com/atmos-visualizer-music/

In contrast, I've listened to DA tracks on Tidal HiFi and my impression is that it's maybe a bit wider and definitely louder-seeming. Or do I think I'm hearing that on the suggestion?
Seems to me like tracks (including old stuff) are at least remastered new stereo files that can be appreciated to some degree with any headphones, otherwise Tidal would be offering it on all tracks. Tidal's site suggests you need Android or Apple TV 4K to hear DA, which would assume there's some kind of decoding going on. But then why do I obviously hear DA with the dolby site's "visualizer" (but not so obviously with Tidal's dolby playlists)?
Tracks need to be entirely remixed for Dolby Atmos. There’s no magic tool. Record labels are going back and getting songs/albums remixed. In the cases where there were Atmos mixes done for Tidal/Apple Music they’re just delivering those passes to Apple.
 
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I live in a slow internet location. My best download speed is about 12-22 megabit. It is often impossible for me to stream lossless. I currently have a total of 220 GB of lossy music downloaded on my iPhone XR and 2020 iPad pro combined. I will not be re-downloading too many tracks other than choral music and some large ensemble works, such as Mahler symphonies (obviously I'm a classical fan). As others have mentioned, it is indeed hard to hear the difference between Apple's standard lossy and lossless, judging from my experience with other CD quality sources I have tried such as Amazon, but I can indeed hear the difference on the above described types of music that have lots of complex high frequency content. Overall, this is great news for classical fans. Edit: I use an Oppo HA-2 headphone amp with Oppo magnaplanar headphones as well as Audio-Technica headphones, and believe it or not, Koss Porta Pro headphones, and all of this equipment does allow me, just barely, to hear the sound quality difference.
 
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Why would you be plugging high end headphones into a lightning to 3.5mm adapter which has the tiniest worst DAC ever - if you actually want to make use of lossless audio that you won't be able to hear anyway, at least invest in a £100+ DAC that'll retain the differences.
The lightning adapter DAC is actually pretty decent. It isn’t the best one obviously, but it’s not crappy either. For being as small as it is, and it’s price; it’s a damn good little DAC. It sounds like my iPod Classic.

I can hear the difference. Just because you can’t doesn’t mean others can’t either. I had a Tidal subscription until a couple months ago (I have been switching to the old ways of buying CDs) but since Apple now has lossless and a 3 month trial with yearly payments I’m gonna give it a shot again. Even with my $75 wired earphones, I can absolutely hear the difference between lossless audio and the 256k AAC files.
I also have a very good stereo in one of my cars (not that factory OEM crap they tell you is good but really isn’t). When I’m in the vehicle that has that system in it, I can’t listen to anything but lossless because I can hear all of the imperfections in compressed music.
 
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